On 6/15/2012 1:02 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/15/12 12:58 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:40:40 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/15/12 11:25 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 06:40:18 -0400, X `
wrote:

*Never* trust a "for-profit" employer, not these days, not
since the death of the social compact in the Reagan Administration.

===

So in your fantasy dream world all employers would be non-profit?


No, whine, I don't believe all employers should be non-profit.

===

Your juvenile name calling is just so cute, and a sure sign that
you've lost the discussion.


The reality is, whine, I never said or even implied "all employers
should be non-profit." That's something you made up. I said "never
trust" a "for-profit" employer. I know language is not your forte, but
did assume you could read and understand relatively simple sentences.

I wonder if you would recommend that non profit employers shouldn't be
trusted as well? How about employees, public servants, clergy,
politicians, good samaritans? In your version of reality, can anyone be
trusted?

On 6/15/2012 1:20 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:40:40 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/15/12 11:25 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 06:40:18 -0400, X `
wrote:

*Never* trust a "for-profit" employer, not these days, not
since the death of the social compact in the Reagan Administration.

===

So in your fantasy dream world all employers would be non-profit?


No, whine, I don't believe all employers should be non-profit.

===

Your juvenile name calling is just so cute, and a sure sign that
you've lost the discussion.

Yep!

Finally! Something I can agree with you on. ;-)

X ` Man wrote:
...income inequality among nations and the society havoc caused by
massive inequality.

TED is an interesting presentation of talks on a number of subjects by
recognized experts in many fields.


http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

For those who can actually think, it's an eye opener.

We all know that statistics can be manipulated to reach a desired
result. That said, there are too many illegal aliens and welfare
slouches in our country. They skew the statistics considerably and put
a bad light on the US. Returning the aliens to their home countries and
drug testing the welfare recipients would save the US billions every year.

X ` Man wrote:
On 6/15/12 8:22 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...

On 6/15/12 6:21 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:49:35 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

...income inequality among nations and the society havoc caused by
massive inequality.

TED is an interesting presentation of talks on a number of subjects by
recognized experts in many fields.


http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

For those who can actually think, it's an eye opener.


Harry, look for the one with Nick Hanauer. A venture capitalist "job
creator" admitting the truth about hiring and the disparity between
rich and poor.

Mobility is near dead in the US. Dozens of countries offer more
mobility to those willing to work hard and risk.

----------------------------------------------------------

Risk what? Most people who ultimately achieve some level of achievement
or what we used to call
"success" don't view working hard at it as a "risk". They view it as an
opportunity.

Our culture has become overly influenced by the "instant gratification"
mentality. "If I exist, I deserve" type
of thinking. I have seen it exhibited often by newly hatched graduates.
The ink isn't even dry on their
sheepskin and they can't understand why employers aren't beating their
door down with offers of high
paying jobs or positions.

Ya hafta pay your dues in life and you only fail when you give up
trying.

Eisboch


The most important thing a new grad can do these days is get a job, any
decent job, keep updating the resume, network like crazy, and jump to
better jobs as they come along. There's little reason these days to be
any more "loyal" to a "for=profit" corporation than it will be to an
employee. *Never* trust a "for-profit" employer, not these days, not
since the death of the social compact in the Reagan Administration.

----------------------------------------------------------

I don't disagree with that. I think it's the result of a double-edged
sword however,
with both employees and employers contributing to the demise of mutual
loyalty.

I also think there are other influences as well. Job functions and skill
requirements used to be much more static over a career than they are
now.
Technology has accelerated obsoleteness. An ambitious employee in a
go-nowhere
job is alert to new job opportunities elsewhere, either for increased
income or
new challenges. Employers with moving targets in terms of rapidly
changing markets for products or services can't carry those who aren't
willing to learn
new skills or accept changes in their routine.

The secret to job security for an employee is to make themselves
valuable to the employer.
It's just the way it works. A for-profit corporation is just that. It's
not a social security
organization.

Eisboch




I know of and have read of too many instances where really
hard-working people who were immensely valuable to their employers
were dumped for all sorts of reasons, and virtually none of them were
related to their job performance.

It's called outsourcing and it can be mitigated.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:07:37 -0400, Earl
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:
...income inequality among nations and the society havoc caused by
massive inequality.

TED is an interesting presentation of talks on a number of subjects by
recognized experts in many fields.


http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

For those who can actually think, it's an eye opener.

We all know that statistics can be manipulated to reach a desired
result. That said, there are too many illegal aliens and welfare
slouches in our country. They skew the statistics considerably and put
a bad light on the US. Returning the aliens to their home countries and
drug testing the welfare recipients would save the US billions every year.

Let's focus the light in a different way. We've stopped taking pride
in our elementary to high school educational systems. We turn out
not-college-ready candidates who cannot compete with overseas students
for the best colleges.

We turn out html coders instead of real engineers.

On 6/20/2012 2:57 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:07:37 -0400,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:
...income inequality among nations and the society havoc caused by
massive inequality.

TED is an interesting presentation of talks on a number of subjects by
recognized experts in many fields.


http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

For those who can actually think, it's an eye opener.

We all know that statistics can be manipulated to reach a desired
result. That said, there are too many illegal aliens and welfare
slouches in our country. They skew the statistics considerably and put
a bad light on the US. Returning the aliens to their home countries and
drug testing the welfare recipients would save the US billions every year.

Let's focus the light in a different way. We've stopped taking pride
in our elementary to high school educational systems. We turn out
not-college-ready candidates who cannot compete with overseas students
for the best colleges.

We turn out html coders instead of real engineers.

Agreed. HTML is a liberal arts discipline. Commerce and consumption is
what the USA is all about; and HTML coding fits right in, along with
other forms of communicating, like writing.

"jps" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:07:37 -0400, Earl
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:
...income inequality among nations and the society havoc caused by
massive inequality.

TED is an interesting presentation of talks on a number of subjects by
recognized experts in many fields.


http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

For those who can actually think, it's an eye opener.

We all know that statistics can be manipulated to reach a desired
result. That said, there are too many illegal aliens and welfare
slouches in our country. They skew the statistics considerably and put
a bad light on the US. Returning the aliens to their home countries and
drug testing the welfare recipients would save the US billions every year.

Let's focus the light in a different way. We've stopped taking pride
in our elementary to high school educational systems. We turn out
not-college-ready candidates who cannot compete with overseas students
for the best colleges.

We turn out html coders instead of real engineers.


-----------------------
And almost all that can be laid on the very liberal, who seem to run the
teachers schools these days. They are the ones who want to ban grades and
competitive scoring. Self esteem of the child is more important than
actually learning.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:10:43 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

"jps" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:07:37 -0400, Earl
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:
...income inequality among nations and the society havoc caused by
massive inequality.

TED is an interesting presentation of talks on a number of subjects by
recognized experts in many fields.


http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

For those who can actually think, it's an eye opener.

We all know that statistics can be manipulated to reach a desired
result. That said, there are too many illegal aliens and welfare
slouches in our country. They skew the statistics considerably and put
a bad light on the US. Returning the aliens to their home countries and
drug testing the welfare recipients would save the US billions every year.

Let's focus the light in a different way. We've stopped taking pride
in our elementary to high school educational systems. We turn out
not-college-ready candidates who cannot compete with overseas students
for the best colleges.

We turn out html coders instead of real engineers.


-----------------------
And almost all that can be laid on the very liberal, who seem to run the
teachers schools these days. They are the ones who want to ban grades and
competitive scoring. Self esteem of the child is more important than
actually learning.

Yes, the "very liberal" are responsible for underfunding schools and
fighting to keep their myopic view of science being science and not
embracing the fundamentalist fantasy of intelligent design.

How much wasted energy has gone into that bull**** and the fight about
teaching sex ed?

The states with the worst education outcomes are invariably the red
states, which also suffer from the highest rate of teen pregnancy.

"jps" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:10:43 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

"jps" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:07:37 -0400, Earl
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:
...income inequality among nations and the society havoc caused by
massive inequality.

TED is an interesting presentation of talks on a number of subjects by
recognized experts in many fields.


http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

For those who can actually think, it's an eye opener.

We all know that statistics can be manipulated to reach a desired
result. That said, there are too many illegal aliens and welfare
slouches in our country. They skew the statistics considerably and put
a bad light on the US. Returning the aliens to their home countries and
drug testing the welfare recipients would save the US billions every year.

Let's focus the light in a different way. We've stopped taking pride
in our elementary to high school educational systems. We turn out
not-college-ready candidates who cannot compete with overseas students
for the best colleges.

We turn out html coders instead of real engineers.


-----------------------
And almost all that can be laid on the very liberal, who seem to run the
teachers schools these days. They are the ones who want to ban grades and
competitive scoring. Self esteem of the child is more important than
actually learning.

Yes, the "very liberal" are responsible for underfunding schools and
fighting to keep their myopic view of science being science and not
embracing the fundamentalist fantasy of intelligent design.

How much wasted energy has gone into that bull**** and the fight about
teaching sex ed?

The states with the worst education outcomes are invariably the red
states, which also suffer from the highest rate of teen pregnancy.
---------------------------------
Schools are not underfunded!!!! And funding does not seem to be related to
results. Washington DC has over a 50% dropout rate, and also the highest
per student funding in the country. What we have is a bloated bureaucracy
sucking up enormous amounts of the school dollar. 20 years ago, there was 3
teachers per non-teaching in the system. Now it is 1:1. My generation sent
man to the moon, using a slide rule for calculations. We could read and
write when we left high school and went to college. Very few had to take
bonehead English. We did not have a teachers aid in most class rooms, or 40
sub deans and other administrators. Now it is something like 80% require
remedial English and math when entering college. Look at the amount of
money the Federal government takes from schools! The Dept of Education has
a $68 billion budget. How much waste in that funnel? How many strings are
attached to the funds that are returned to the states?

On 6/20/2012 11:33 PM, Califbill wrote:
"jps" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:10:43 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

"jps" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:07:37 -0400, Earl
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:
...income inequality among nations and the society havoc caused by
massive inequality.

TED is an interesting presentation of talks on a number of subjects by
recognized experts in many fields.


http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

For those who can actually think, it's an eye opener.

We all know that statistics can be manipulated to reach a desired
result. That said, there are too many illegal aliens and welfare
slouches in our country. They skew the statistics considerably and put
a bad light on the US. Returning the aliens to their home countries and
drug testing the welfare recipients would save the US billions every
year.

Let's focus the light in a different way. We've stopped taking pride
in our elementary to high school educational systems. We turn out
not-college-ready candidates who cannot compete with overseas students
for the best colleges.

We turn out html coders instead of real engineers.


-----------------------
And almost all that can be laid on the very liberal, who seem to run the
teachers schools these days. They are the ones who want to ban grades and
competitive scoring. Self esteem of the child is more important than
actually learning.

Yes, the "very liberal" are responsible for underfunding schools and
fighting to keep their myopic view of science being science and not
embracing the fundamentalist fantasy of intelligent design.

How much wasted energy has gone into that bull**** and the fight about
teaching sex ed?

The states with the worst education outcomes are invariably the red
states, which also suffer from the highest rate of teen pregnancy.
---------------------------------
Schools are not underfunded!!!! And funding does not seem to be related
to results. Washington DC has over a 50% dropout rate, and also the
highest per student funding in the country. What we have is a bloated
bureaucracy sucking up enormous amounts of the school dollar. 20 years
ago, there was 3 teachers per non-teaching in the system. Now it is 1:1.
My generation sent man to the moon, using a slide rule for calculations.
We could read and write when we left high school and went to college.
Very few had to take bonehead English. We did not have a teachers aid in
most class rooms, or 40 sub deans and other administrators. Now it is
something like 80% require remedial English and math when entering
college. Look at the amount of money the Federal government takes from
schools! The Dept of Education has a $68 billion budget. How much waste
in that funnel? How many strings are attached to the funds that are
returned to the states?


You have it right... it's not the teachers, well, a lot of them suck too
but the amount of non-teaching jobs within the system. Not to mention
this whole bull**** of Teachers, firefighters, and Police really means,
town workers, aids, and janitors...