If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 10:04 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:00:47 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

Speak for yourself.

He most surely is.

Since I don't watch pro football, it isn't logical to claim I am
attracted to seeing its players beat the crap out of each other.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

===

With all due respect, that's nonsense. There certainly is fan
appreciation for good clean hits and empathy for the recipient, but
that is quite different from what you believe.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 11:11 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X `
wrote:

A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

===

With all due respect, that's nonsense. There certainly is fan
appreciation for good clean hits and empathy for the recipient, but
that is quite different from what you believe.


I hope you are right about this and I am wrong.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, Oscar wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:53:13 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 10:04 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:00:47 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

Speak for yourself.

He most surely is.

Since I don't watch pro football, it isn't logical to claim I am
attracted to seeing its players beat the crap out of each other.

Since you don't watch pro football, your claim, "...A big part of the attraction is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other..." isn't supportable.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

Actually if you watch Mixed Martial Arts, very few of the victories are
by knockout. There is a lot to this Roman Greko (sp?) wrestling... quite
a science if you pay attention. I don't watch a lot of it though, dad
and I noticed that it really raises your heart rate, especially when the
two opponents are in a static fight for control... you almost hold your
breath till someone flinches. Decided it wasn't good for us...

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 11:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:53:13 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 10:04 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:00:47 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

Speak for yourself.

He most surely is.

Since I don't watch pro football, it isn't logical to claim I am
attracted to seeing its players beat the crap out of each other.

Since you don't watch pro football, your claim, "...A big part of the attraction is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other..." isn't supportable.


Oh, it's hard to miss the highlights, and occasionally, while waiting
for 60 Minutes which typically is delayed by football, I see a little of
it. I don't tune in football, though.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:21:49 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:11 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X `
wrote:

A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

===

With all due respect, that's nonsense. There certainly is fan
appreciation for good clean hits and empathy for the recipient, but
that is quite different from what you believe.


I hope you are right about this and I am wrong.

You'll hear a lot more yelling and screaming when a touchdown is made than when an illegal hit is
made. You'll also hear announcers praising well-done plays and condemning many of the illegal hits.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 11:11 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X `
wrote:

A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

===

With all due respect, that's nonsense. There certainly is fan
appreciation for good clean hits and empathy for the recipient, but
that is quite different from what you believe.


I have been a race fan all my life... I can honestly say I get up on my
feet and clench my cheeks during a great pass or hard fight, but not
during wrecks... I don't and never have watched racing for wrecks, just
like I don't watch football for hits, and I don't watch cage fighting
for hits either. I love watching a team or individual work their way to
victory... It's the science of the sports I love.

For instance, never cared for baseball at all but during World Series
games a few years back watching with my dad, I was fascinated by the
decisions and gamesmanship of the coach near the end of the game.. Can't
even tell you who won, but I remember the coach changing pitchers,
batters, runners.. etc.. It was very cool. I have probably never sat and
watched an entire basketball game but when I do see them play I am
amazed by the athletic ability of those big dudes...

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 12:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same
question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life.
It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

My friend in Orange (suburb of New Haven) emailed me earlier that it was
then about 10F, and the wind chill made it feel even worse. A good
excuse for a hot rum drink, if ever there was one. She and her hubby,
also an old friend, are busy prepping for the Giants-Packers showdown
later today.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 1/15/12 10:08 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political
forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines
and penalties therefore.

It's amazing how different the two opinions can be from one person who
watches and follows Football, and another who doesn't...


What happens to a motorcycle racer in your daughter's sport who
deliberately drives in a fashion that causes accidents and injuries to
the other racers? My guess is that he or she would be tossed, either for
a season or permanently. These sports are dangerous enough without
having "players" who are out there deliberately trying to injure other
participants.

How did you ever get through your youth without doing anything remotely
"dangerous"?

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

In article ,
says...

On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

Yeah, but Harry has already started the name calling.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:56:33 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'.

Whew!

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 12:40 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:56:33 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'.

Whew!


As I have stated several times, in boxing both parties enter the ring
knowing the other guy is pretty much hell-bent on knocking him out. Is
that also true in football?

Also, boxers are watched carefully for fouls. If they foul too many
times, they lose the match. If they go overboard, they are tossed out of
the sport. In football, a foul costs the team yardage. Football rules
are softer.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:52:29 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

Actually if you watch Mixed Martial Arts, very few of the victories are
by knockout. There is a lot to this Roman Greko (sp?) wrestling... quite
a science if you pay attention. I don't watch a lot of it though, dad
and I noticed that it really raises your heart rate, especially when the
two opponents are in a static fight for control... you almost hold your
breath till someone flinches. Decided it wasn't good for us...

If Tapout is one of the Mixed Martial Arts then I have watched a few bouts - maybe half dozen.
Agreed, I've never seen anyone knocked out. However, I've watched the face-elbowing, etc., when the
two opponents are locked together, and I've seen lots and lots of blood - and not just from the
nose.

To me it's somewhat overboard. But, one of my sons-in-law thinks it's great. He's big into jiu jitsu
(sp?) and some of the other martial arts.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 12:28 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

Yeah, but Harry has already started the name calling.


A. I didn't call anyone here a name.
B. You seem intent on seeing what you can stir up.
C. I'm not playing your game and I hope no one else does, either.

Have nice day, as my Russian friends say.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:05:29 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

Speaking of drinks, I gave my wife a 'Sodastream' thing for Christmas. It actually works pretty
well, and the soda it makes is not bad at all. So far my favorite is diet Root Beer.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 12:47 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:05:29 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

Speaking of drinks, I gave my wife a 'Sodastream' thing for Christmas. It actually works pretty
well, and the soda it makes is not bad at all. So far my favorite is diet Root Beer.


Is the syrup something you buy locally or do you have to order it? I've
not seen (nor have I been looking for) soda syrup at the local supermarket.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 12:40 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:56:33 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'.

Whew!

You aren't the only one who doesn't understand his irrational thought
processes.

I do understand that he "loves" a sport where the only object of the
game is to beat the living crap out of the opponent. Ain't that sumptin?

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 12:26 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , dump-on-
says...

On 1/15/12 10:08 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political
forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines
and penalties therefore.

It's amazing how different the two opinions can be from one person who
watches and follows Football, and another who doesn't...


What happens to a motorcycle racer in your daughter's sport who
deliberately drives in a fashion that causes accidents and injuries to
the other racers? My guess is that he or she would be tossed, either for
a season or permanently. These sports are dangerous enough without
having "players" who are out there deliberately trying to injure other
participants.

How did you ever get through your youth without doing anything remotely
"dangerous"?
Mommy forbid it?

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

What is tapout?

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:11 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X `
wrote:

A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

===

With all due respect, that's nonsense. There certainly is fan
appreciation for good clean hits and empathy for the recipient, but
that is quite different from what you believe.


I hope you are right about this and I am wrong.

Wouldn't be the first time.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:44:57 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 12:40 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:56:33 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'.

Whew!


As I have stated several times, in boxing both parties enter the ring
knowing the other guy is pretty much hell-bent on knocking him out. Is
that also true in football?

Also, boxers are watched carefully for fouls. If they foul too many
times, they lose the match. If they go overboard, they are tossed out of
the sport. In football, a foul costs the team yardage. Football rules
are softer.


You need to relearn some of the rules, penalties, costs of personal fouls, etc. in pro football.
Yardage is the least of the costs.

Whether legal or illegal, your stance on personal injuries is quite inconsistent. Holding this view,
"The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'," seems quite
illogical.

Enough on the subject.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:50:59 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 12:47 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:05:29 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

Speaking of drinks, I gave my wife a 'Sodastream' thing for Christmas. It actually works pretty
well, and the soda it makes is not bad at all. So far my favorite is diet Root Beer.


Is the syrup something you buy locally or do you have to order it? I've
not seen (nor have I been looking for) soda syrup at the local supermarket.

Bed, Bath, and Beyond carries it here. So does Amazon.com. Plug Sodastream syrup into Google and
you'll get a few more hits.

You may just have to drive to the big city to get the stuff!

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 13:24:10 -0500, Oscar wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

What is tapout?

It's boxing on steroids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KbKUZbGQtg

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 1:23 PM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 12:26 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , dump-on-
says...

On 1/15/12 10:08 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and
college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These
guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as
much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where
deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even
professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or
even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never
went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific
injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro
football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political
forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines
and penalties therefore.

It's amazing how different the two opinions can be from one person who
watches and follows Football, and another who doesn't...


What happens to a motorcycle racer in your daughter's sport who
deliberately drives in a fashion that causes accidents and injuries to
the other racers? My guess is that he or she would be tossed, either for
a season or permanently. These sports are dangerous enough without
having "players" who are out there deliberately trying to injure other
participants.

How did you ever get through your youth without doing anything remotely
"dangerous"?
Mommy forbid it?

Assholes seem to have a way of getting themselves out of the game...
Seriously, nasty people, assholes with baggage, never make it to that
level, and if they do, things have a way of sorting themselves out on
the track. In the rare occasion that one does make it through, the
disdain and non-support of the rest of the "family" is not survivable.
Quite frankly, if the other riders (as in a lot of forms of racing)
don't trust you or are afraid of you, you can not survive on the track,
they will defend themselves... And it's not like MMA or football. When
these guys "fight" it isn't hands, feet, and pads, it's flesh and
metal... and usually pretty final.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 12:45 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:52:29 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

Actually if you watch Mixed Martial Arts, very few of the victories are
by knockout. There is a lot to this Roman Greko (sp?) wrestling... quite
a science if you pay attention. I don't watch a lot of it though, dad
and I noticed that it really raises your heart rate, especially when the
two opponents are in a static fight for control... you almost hold your
breath till someone flinches. Decided it wasn't good for us...

If Tapout is one of the Mixed Martial Arts then I have watched a few bouts - maybe half dozen.
Agreed, I've never seen anyone knocked out. However, I've watched the face-elbowing, etc., when the
two opponents are locked together, and I've seen lots and lots of blood - and not just from the
nose.

To me it's somewhat overboard. But, one of my sons-in-law thinks it's great. He's big into jiu jitsu
(sp?) and some of the other martial arts.

I watched it when it first got big, but don't really watch anymore..

Was the Motorcycle racing you saw this week pavement or off road? This
time of year you will find "GPX" which is road racing flat trackstyle,
and Arena Cross which is the dirt tracks with jumps, bumps, and sandy
banked corners.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 1:24 PM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500,
wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any*
sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be
*one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury
is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

What is tapout?

Tapout is a very raw form of freestyle fighting. In most of these cage
fighting series, the rules are few. No strikes to the back of the head,
no feet to the head if the opponent is on his knees or on the floor, no
jabs to the eye, no kicks to the balls...... Other than that, there are
very few other rules.

It is very interesting sometimes when two very different style of
fighters meet and you see which "science" is better. For the record,
just as I knew when I did Karate as a kid, if a good Ground and Pound
(wrestler) is in the ring, he is King...

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/12 1:54 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:50:59 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 12:47 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:05:29 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

Speaking of drinks, I gave my wife a 'Sodastream' thing for Christmas. It actually works pretty
well, and the soda it makes is not bad at all. So far my favorite is diet Root Beer.


Is the syrup something you buy locally or do you have to order it? I've
not seen (nor have I been looking for) soda syrup at the local supermarket.

Bed, Bath, and Beyond carries it here. So does Amazon.com. Plug Sodastream syrup into Google and
you'll get a few more hits.

You may just have to drive to the big city to get the stuff!


Yeah, I doubt it is sold at the hardware store in downtown Prince
Frederick. And, of course, downtown Huntingtown is practically
non-existent.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 14:01:14 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 1/15/2012 12:45 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:52:29 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

Actually if you watch Mixed Martial Arts, very few of the victories are
by knockout. There is a lot to this Roman Greko (sp?) wrestling... quite
a science if you pay attention. I don't watch a lot of it though, dad
and I noticed that it really raises your heart rate, especially when the
two opponents are in a static fight for control... you almost hold your
breath till someone flinches. Decided it wasn't good for us...

If Tapout is one of the Mixed Martial Arts then I have watched a few bouts - maybe half dozen.
Agreed, I've never seen anyone knocked out. However, I've watched the face-elbowing, etc., when the
two opponents are locked together, and I've seen lots and lots of blood - and not just from the
nose.

To me it's somewhat overboard. But, one of my sons-in-law thinks it's great. He's big into jiu jitsu
(sp?) and some of the other martial arts.

I watched it when it first got big, but don't really watch anymore..

Was the Motorcycle racing you saw this week pavement or off road? This
time of year you will find "GPX" which is road racing flat trackstyle,
and Arena Cross which is the dirt tracks with jumps, bumps, and sandy
banked corners.

This was the arena cross with the jumps, etc. Fun to watch.

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 3:20 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 14:01:14 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 12:45 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:52:29 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

Actually if you watch Mixed Martial Arts, very few of the victories are
by knockout. There is a lot to this Roman Greko (sp?) wrestling... quite
a science if you pay attention. I don't watch a lot of it though, dad
and I noticed that it really raises your heart rate, especially when the
two opponents are in a static fight for control... you almost hold your
breath till someone flinches. Decided it wasn't good for us...

If Tapout is one of the Mixed Martial Arts then I have watched a few bouts - maybe half dozen.
Agreed, I've never seen anyone knocked out. However, I've watched the face-elbowing, etc., when the
two opponents are locked together, and I've seen lots and lots of blood - and not just from the
nose.

To me it's somewhat overboard. But, one of my sons-in-law thinks it's great. He's big into jiu jitsu
(sp?) and some of the other martial arts.

I watched it when it first got big, but don't really watch anymore..

Was the Motorcycle racing you saw this week pavement or off road? This
time of year you will find "GPX" which is road racing flat trackstyle,
and Arena Cross which is the dirt tracks with jumps, bumps, and sandy
banked corners.

This was the arena cross with the jumps, etc. Fun to watch.

That's what Jessi is shooting for...

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

On 1/15/2012 3:20 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 14:01:14 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 12:45 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:52:29 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

Actually if you watch Mixed Martial Arts, very few of the victories are
by knockout. There is a lot to this Roman Greko (sp?) wrestling... quite
a science if you pay attention. I don't watch a lot of it though, dad
and I noticed that it really raises your heart rate, especially when the
two opponents are in a static fight for control... you almost hold your
breath till someone flinches. Decided it wasn't good for us...

If Tapout is one of the Mixed Martial Arts then I have watched a few bouts - maybe half dozen.
Agreed, I've never seen anyone knocked out. However, I've watched the face-elbowing, etc., when the
two opponents are locked together, and I've seen lots and lots of blood - and not just from the
nose.

To me it's somewhat overboard. But, one of my sons-in-law thinks it's great. He's big into jiu jitsu
(sp?) and some of the other martial arts.

I watched it when it first got big, but don't really watch anymore..

Was the Motorcycle racing you saw this week pavement or off road? This
time of year you will find "GPX" which is road racing flat trackstyle,
and Arena Cross which is the dirt tracks with jumps, bumps, and sandy
banked corners.

This was the arena cross with the jumps, etc. Fun to watch.

I predict the next up and coming spectator/tv sport... finally getting
ive coverage this season, all year, first time for that...

If this doesn't make you feel old and creaky...
 

In article ,
says...

On 1/15/12 12:28 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

Yeah, but Harry has already started the name calling.


A. I didn't call anyone here a name.
B. You seem intent on seeing what you can stir up.
C. I'm not playing your game and I hope no one else does, either.

Have nice day, as my Russian friends say.

Harry, you don't recall calling someone an asshole just recently because
they, you claimed were stirring the pot?