In article , mark Ransley wrote:
What do the instruction on the can say, you have not said what product
you are using, call the manufacturer. multiple coats of transparent
stain will not peal or flake or scratch as someone has said


They say they make that stuff themselves. And what I think they do is,
they take some oil, add some mineral spirits, add some stain, and mix
it together. Of course that stuff will not flake or peel -- it is a
liquid. But two coats may give me more protection.

i

Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

Two coat definitely better than one.


The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

The color will darken over time in a good way.



What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will

You didn't stain the deck yourself, and want to varnish it yourself?
Considering the labor and return, forget varnishing, stain yourself in
two years.

Ignoramus26572 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , basskisser wrote:
Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , John Gaquin wrote:
You ask "...Any thoughts on my decision making process?..."
Yes. It s*%ks.

"....When they sent us a proposal, they specified two coats of their
sealant..." "....When workers came, they acted all surprised....the
"manager" ... tried to convince me that I do not need two coats..."

These guys are robbing you, plain and simple. They charge for two
applications, but only deliver one. React accordingly. Life really isn't
all that complicated in most cases. Don't over analyze.

Well, I did not pay them a dime yet. I will pay them when they put a
second coat.

In other words, your opinion is that I will benefit from the second
coat, right?

Not exactly. The stuff they use IS a penetrant. I've used it on my
deck for years. Even with one coat, if you get too much on, and the
deck has been previously done, it will puddle and not penetrate. And
it WILL be slicker than owl **** if it does that.

The deck was never done before.

i

But, the point is, if you look at *most* cans of deck sealer, they
will tell you to 1. NOT let the stuff puddle, 2. not to do two coats,
unless done in a certain time frame. In other words, if the first coat
has been there too long, the second coat will not penetrate. It's just
doing what it's supposed to do, and that is preventing moisture from
getting in the wood. On my can, it says IF you want to second coat, to
do so immediately after the first coat soaks in.

In article , Martin wrote:

"Ignoramus26572" wrote in message
a.com...
In article , mark
Ransley wrote:
What do the instruction on the can say, you have not said what product
you are using, call the manufacturer. multiple coats of transparent
stain will not peal or flake or scratch as someone has said


They say they make that stuff themselves. And what I think they do is,
they take some oil, add some mineral spirits, add some stain, and mix
it together. Of course that stuff will not flake or peel -- it is a
liquid. But two coats may give me more protection.


Consumers Reports for Aug '03 has a report on their ongoing testing of
different types of deck finishes.



And what does the article say?

i

Ignoramus26572 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , davefr wrote:
You don't want multiple coats on a deck. Thinner = better. The
process is to brush it on and the wood will absorb what it wants and
then you brush out the rest. Thick coats will just scratch, flake,
and peel and will look like hell in a few months.

No, no. This is oil sealant that does not polymerize like varnish. It
is basically oil with stain. So it is absorbed by the wood. I actually
tried putting a second coat yesterday, the piece of wood where I
applied it absorbed the extra oil and is looking deeper and I think
will last longer.

Then just let it absorb whatever it wants, but any sealant remaining
on the surface needs to be brushed out.

You also don't want to varnish a deck. Once the varnish fails you'll
have the "job from hell" trying to strip it.

Does exterior grade varnish also fail and peel?

Yes, varnish will fail. It might last one year or might last ten
years but it will fail which is usually peeling. This will be a
nightmare to sand and strip. Besides varnish will make for a very
slick surface.

If you like the look of varnish then take a look at some of the
Sikkens deck sealants. They have that glossy look but should perform
much better.

The best looking decks have a thin coat of lightly tinted oil based
deck stain and this get's re-applied every 2-3 years. Prep is just a
good cleaning with a garden hose and deck cleaner. (no pressure
washers!!!)

This makes sense. But why would a second coat of such oil hurt???

i



Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

In article , davefr wrote:
Ignoramus26572 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , davefr wrote:
You don't want multiple coats on a deck. Thinner = better. The
process is to brush it on and the wood will absorb what it wants and
then you brush out the rest. Thick coats will just scratch, flake,
and peel and will look like hell in a few months.

No, no. This is oil sealant that does not polymerize like varnish. It
is basically oil with stain. So it is absorbed by the wood. I actually
tried putting a second coat yesterday, the piece of wood where I
applied it absorbed the extra oil and is looking deeper and I think
will last longer.

Then just let it absorb whatever it wants, but any sealant remaining
on the surface needs to be brushed out.

You also don't want to varnish a deck. Once the varnish fails you'll
have the "job from hell" trying to strip it.

Does exterior grade varnish also fail and peel?

Yes, varnish will fail. It might last one year or might last ten
years but it will fail which is usually peeling. This will be a
nightmare to sand and strip. Besides varnish will make for a very
slick surface.

If you like the look of varnish then take a look at some of the
Sikkens deck sealants. They have that glossy look but should perform
much better.

Is Cetol DEK what I need? Any retailer suggestions? How long will it
last? How (in what way) does it fail after some time?

i


The best looking decks have a thin coat of lightly tinted oil based
deck stain and this get's re-applied every 2-3 years. Prep is just a
good cleaning with a garden hose and deck cleaner. (no pressure
washers!!!)

This makes sense. But why would a second coat of such oil hurt???

i



Ignoramus26420 wrote in message ra.com...
We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

"Ignoramus26572" wrote in message
a.com...

Consumers Reports for Aug '03 has a report on their ongoing testing of
different types of deck finishes.



And what does the article say?



Go to:
www.consumerreports.org

Pay 4.95 for a one month subscription, and you can download all the product
reviews you want.

On 15 Jul 2003 03:10:42 GMT, Ignoramus26420
wrote:

We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

i,
1.) if the proposal was for two coats, then you should get two
coats, or the price should be reduced to your satisfaction.
2.) you stated that "they make this stuff themselves". What did you
buy? It could be olive oil with coffee grounds for cripes sake.
Sorry.
3.) do not varnish ANY of this deck, or any more railings. You will
regret it. (Reasons: the oil product-whatever it is- is not set yet.
Your varnish will peel and flake. Varnish does not do well over
weathered wood, with unknown oil finishes. It will peel and flake.
Varnish looks great on solid, smooth surfaces. On your deck, it will
peel and flake.
4.) I am sorry to say it, but the time to ask questions was before
the sealant was applied. I have extensive experience in woodworking
and cabinet making, and I have no idea (from reading your posts) what
sealant was applied. DON'T varnish.
5.) if the sealant dried satisfactorily, and if you can live with the
color, demand the second coat as agreed. Don't worry too much about
"pooling", buy a cheap string mop and spread it. If the first coat
dried, the second will also. Two coats of "sumpthin" is generally
better than one if you are simply looking to seal the wood.

Good luck,
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Thanks, it makes sense. The varnish I applied was in a small shaded
area, so I am sure that it will not ruin the deck.

I was however under impression that varnish, being oil based, would
stick fine after oil treatments.

i

In article , noah wrote:
On 15 Jul 2003 03:10:42 GMT, Ignoramus26420
wrote:

We have hired a company to refinish our deck. When they sent us a
proposal, they specified two coats of their sealant. When workers
came, they acted all surprised when I requested that they come again
to put the second coat. I had to talk on the phone to the "manager"
who tried to convince me that I do not need two coats, that it was a
mistake etc. Their sealant, upon close examination, appears to be an
oil based stain diluted with solvent such as mineral spirits. They
said that second coat of that product will not penetrate and the deck
will forever remain oily.

My general and limited woodworking experience suggests that for a 20
year old and dry weathered wood, it will absorb an additional coat. I
requested that they leave a little bit of their sealant and tried
applying it again today, and alas, it was absorbed by the wood after I
wiped off the excess. I am sure that a second coat will make the
treatment last longer.

So I do want a second coat. Any thoughts on my decision making
process?

The color that they applied is called california cedar, but is more
reminiscent of baby ****. That's to say that it is brown and not very
transparent. But it looks not so bad and it was our choice.

What I am thinking about however, is VARNISHING the deck on top of
coating. Both the treatment and varnish would be oil based. I will
thusly benefit from their sanding of the deck, and their treatment
will allow me to use less varnish. I tried varnishing one rail with
captain's spar urethane, and it looked frankly pretty good. Has anyone
varnished a weathered deck? Is that a crazy idea? Maybe I should
varnish rails only?

Thanks!

i

i,
1.) if the proposal was for two coats, then you should get two
coats, or the price should be reduced to your satisfaction.
2.) you stated that "they make this stuff themselves". What did you
buy? It could be olive oil with coffee grounds for cripes sake.
Sorry.
3.) do not varnish ANY of this deck, or any more railings. You will
regret it. (Reasons: the oil product-whatever it is- is not set yet.
Your varnish will peel and flake. Varnish does not do well over
weathered wood, with unknown oil finishes. It will peel and flake.
Varnish looks great on solid, smooth surfaces. On your deck, it will
peel and flake.
4.) I am sorry to say it, but the time to ask questions was before
the sealant was applied. I have extensive experience in woodworking
and cabinet making, and I have no idea (from reading your posts) what
sealant was applied. DON'T varnish.
5.) if the sealant dried satisfactorily, and if you can live with the
color, demand the second coat as agreed. Don't worry too much about
"pooling", buy a cheap string mop and spread it. If the first coat
dried, the second will also. Two coats of "sumpthin" is generally
better than one if you are simply looking to seal the wood.

Good luck,
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Ignoramus26572 wrote in message ra.com...
In article , davefr wrote:
You don't want multiple coats on a deck. Thinner = better. The
process is to brush it on and the wood will absorb what it wants and
then you brush out the rest. Thick coats will just scratch, flake,
and peel and will look like hell in a few months.

No, no. This is oil sealant that does not polymerize like varnish. It
is basically oil with stain. So it is absorbed by the wood. I actually
tried putting a second coat yesterday, the piece of wood where I
applied it absorbed the extra oil and is looking deeper and I think
will last longer.

You also don't want to varnish a deck. Once the varnish fails you'll
have the "job from hell" trying to strip it.

Does exterior grade varnish also fail and peel?

The best looking decks have a thin coat of lightly tinted oil based
deck stain and this get's re-applied every 2-3 years. Prep is just a
good cleaning with a garden hose and deck cleaner. (no pressure
washers!!!)

This makes sense. But why would a second coat of such oil hurt???

It's simply because the first coat protects, so that the second coat
will never penetrate. It just sits on top like the water is supposed
to do. The only good that a second coat will do is make it slippery.