In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:46:42 -0400, Bob D. wrote:

In article ,
(Gould 0738) wrote:

No, this represents yet one more disaster concerning Bayliner. I have yet
to read any post extolling their virtues. Maybe that says something.

It says you don't know where to look.


Don't waste your breath, Gould. It's more likely that he doesn't want to
hear any positive Bayliner anectdotes. After all, doing so would be to
risk modifying his opinion which would indicate that he is not
infallible. Something that a few people in this group have a problem
accepting.

Bob, I have no idea where you came up with that bull****. I have had NO
opinions on Bayliner pro or con. Nor do I care, frankly. All I've read has
been here.


I said it was LIKELY (not absolutely) you don't want to hear anything
positive. But, more and more, I'll stand by my statement.

There have been both pros and cons posted to this group, yet you cite only
the negative. If Gould was right, and you don't know where to look to make
a more informed statement, instead relying on ONE piece of anectodotal
evidence, fine. Then do yourself a favor, take his advice, and look into
it objectively, instead of being one more blow hard who decided to rudely
shoot his mouth off, then whining something akin to "what did I do to
deserve this?"


As I've stated Bayliner may not be the first choice for many boaters, and
I will conceed that it may not even be a viable choice for some
applications (I still don't know this as fact but, will at least consider
it a reasonable possibility), but I have yet to see any evidence to
support this viewpoints such as Bayliners are "a piece of crap - both the
boat and the company"

Then apparently you haven't been reading the messages here, including the
one to which I responded.


No Larry, apprently YOU haven't been reading the messages in this group.
If you had, you would know there are people who don't blindly bash
Bayliners (or other brands) and even people who actually enjoy them, as
Gould pointed out. So when you whine that you're just echoing what
everyone else said on this group, you are only echoing what a few people
said, and NOT necessarily the concensus of the group. Furthermore, you
make such a bold statement with ABOLUTELY NO FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE as you
had just pointed out.

Besides the human nature attributes you cited, add "People tend to stick
to their initial biases, despite new information" to that list.

You seem to be living proof. For me, if someone can show me otherwise, or,
for that matter, if someone expresses opinions to the contrary, I'll
listen, otherwise, it seems to me that you're the one with an axe to grind.
--


Yes Larry, you pull a statement completely out of your ass like Bayliner's
are "a piece of crap - both the boat and the company", based without ANY
personal experience, while I, who have OWNED AND ENJOYED multiple Bayliner
boats have considered what INFORMED PEOPLE have cited, and have come to
understand that it MAY not be a boaters first choice, and it MAY not be
suitable for all boating applications. Yeah Larry, out of those two
contrasting viewpoints, yours is the reasonable one.

Since your so willing to adjust your point of view based solely on
opinions, how come you didn't take Gould advice and look into BOC web site
or search google for other threads? And while I'll admit there may be
alot of posts bashing Bayliners, there are posts of people who rely upon
and enjoy the boats, meaning they can't all be the piece of crap as you
insinuate.

Just to be fair Larry, you are right. I do have an axe to grind, with
people who rudely shoot off their mouths, without facts, without
provocation, just to be a smart ass. The choice is yours: To behave in a
sensible manner as if you were talking to someone face to face, or rudely
and irrespronsibly repeat sentiments you know nothing about, because no
one knows who you are.

In that vein, in an effort to behave in a sensible manner (not that I'm
always capable), if I misunderstood what you meant by "a piece of crap -
both the boat and the company", please do accept my apologies.

Bob

Dave, the best advice you can get on a new boat, don't buy new.

Take a look at the used boats one or two years old. The drop in price
on most new boats is unbeleavable. And if you look around you will find
the boat you want, with low hours, electronic equipment already
installed, all the bugs worked out, and save a lot of money in the
process. I know lots of people who have been into boating for many
years, very few of them would ever consider buying a brand new boat.
And these people don't have money problems. They just hate taking that
big hit when it comes time to sell the boat, and that hit can be really
bad.

....unless you like to buy your stuff new and take care of it. If, like me,
you keep things forever, resale value doesn't matter.

"Capt John" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dave, the best advice you can get on a new boat, don't buy new.

Take a look at the used boats one or two years old. The drop in price
on most new boats is unbeleavable. And if you look around you will find
the boat you want, with low hours, electronic equipment already
installed, all the bugs worked out, and save a lot of money in the
process. I know lots of people who have been into boating for many
years, very few of them would ever consider buying a brand new boat.
And these people don't have money problems. They just hate taking that
big hit when it comes time to sell the boat, and that hit can be really
bad.

You still take a bit hit financially if you compare the cost of a new boat
vs. an identical boat 1~2 years old.

I agree with what John said...buy used.

"wgander" wrote in message
news:gNADd.43134$8e5.10596@fed1read07...
...unless you like to buy your stuff new and take care of it. If, like me,
you keep things forever, resale value doesn't matter.

"Capt John" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dave, the best advice you can get on a new boat, don't buy new.

Take a look at the used boats one or two years old. The drop in price
on most new boats is unbeleavable. And if you look around you will find
the boat you want, with low hours, electronic equipment already
installed, all the bugs worked out, and save a lot of money in the
process. I know lots of people who have been into boating for many
years, very few of them would ever consider buying a brand new boat.
And these people don't have money problems. They just hate taking that
big hit when it comes time to sell the boat, and that hit can be really
bad.