On 07 Oct 2003 14:51:29 GMT, Gould 0738 wrote:

Wow, what a story! Now I know why Bayliner is so poorly regarded. What a
piece of crap - both the boat and the company. Thanks for sharing.
--

And sadly enough, we can see why Bayliner *is* poorly regarded- by some.

Always so easily convinced after hearing just one side of a story?

No, this represents yet one more disaster concerning Bayliner. I have yet
to read any post extolling their virtues. Maybe that says something.

The problem was a combination of 1) a misplumbed boat 2) operator error and
bad judgment 3) dealer error and bad judgment. All of those factors are
evident in the story as told by the consumer, yet people who feel the insecure
need to prove that their particular mass-pro little plastic runabout is vastly
superior to somebody else's little mass-pro runabout seem to concentrate only
on the product portion. Probably 100 major and minor systems on a boat like
that, one is screwed up, and every boat ever built by the same company is a
"piece of crap"?

Hold all products up to that same standard, and you will never be able to buy
anything.

I think you're reading a lot more into my post than I put there.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com

No, this represents yet one more disaster concerning Bayliner. I have yet
to read any post extolling their virtues. Maybe that says something.

It says you don't know where to look.

Run a search engine on the Bayliner Owners Group. You'll find hundreds of happy
and satisfied Bayliner owners there.

Ever notice that most of the Bayliner horror stories are second hand, and told
by people who don't own one? (The misplumbed baitwell is an exception, it's not
second hand).

Human nature works like this: I sell you something, and tell you it's going to
give you good service and you will have a satisfactory ownership experience.
Over time, that proves to be true and so you tell *nobody*. Why should you? You
paid good money for a product with the assurance that you would be completely
or generally satisfied, that expectation is realized, and so it's not news. No
big deal. You wound up with what you thought you were going to get.

However, if I sell you something with the assurance that you will find the
ownership experience satisfactory and you are unhappy with the product you are
far more liekly to tell anybody willing to listen just how badly you were
treated, how screwed up the product is, why everything every sold by such and
such a retailer or built by
such and such a factory is a POS, etc.

Bayliner is no different than most products.
If it somes up in casual conversation, it's most likely because somebody feels
compelled to bitch and moan. The satisfied
people are too busy enjoying (any) product to waste time telling everybody how
happy they are.



I think you're reading a lot more into my post than I put there.

Not at all:

Here's exactly how you reacted to the story-


Wow, what a story! Now I know why Bayliner is so poorly regarded. What a
piece of crap - both the boat and the company. Thanks for sharing.

"Now I know"?

Don't hop my case for observing:

And sadly enough, we can see why Bayliner *is* poorly regarded- by some.

Always so easily convinced after hearing just one side of a story?

In article ,
(Gould 0738) wrote:

No, this represents yet one more disaster concerning Bayliner. I have yet
to read any post extolling their virtues. Maybe that says something.

It says you don't know where to look.


Don't waste your breath, Gould. It's more likely that he doesn't want to
hear any positive Bayliner anectdotes. After all, doing so would be to
risk modifying his opinion which would indicate that he is not
infallible. Something that a few people in this group have a problem
accepting.

As I've stated Bayliner may not be the first choice for many boaters, and
I will conceed that it may not even be a viable choice for some
applications (I still don't know this as fact but, will at least consider
it a reasonable possibility), but I have yet to see any evidence to
support this viewpoints such as Bayliners are "a piece of crap - both the
boat and the company"

Besides the human nature attributes you cited, add "People tend to stick
to their initial biases, despite new information" to that list.

Bob Dimond

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:46:42 -0400, Bob D. wrote:

In article ,
(Gould 0738) wrote:

No, this represents yet one more disaster concerning Bayliner. I have yet
to read any post extolling their virtues. Maybe that says something.

It says you don't know where to look.


Don't waste your breath, Gould. It's more likely that he doesn't want to
hear any positive Bayliner anectdotes. After all, doing so would be to
risk modifying his opinion which would indicate that he is not
infallible. Something that a few people in this group have a problem
accepting.

Bob, I have no idea where you came up with that bull****. I have had NO
opinions on Bayliner pro or con. Nor do I care, frankly. All I've read has
been here.

As I've stated Bayliner may not be the first choice for many boaters, and
I will conceed that it may not even be a viable choice for some
applications (I still don't know this as fact but, will at least consider
it a reasonable possibility), but I have yet to see any evidence to
support this viewpoints such as Bayliners are "a piece of crap - both the
boat and the company"

Then apparently you haven't been reading the messages here, including the
one to which I responded.

Besides the human nature attributes you cited, add "People tend to stick
to their initial biases, despite new information" to that list.

You seem to be living proof. For me, if someone can show me otherwise, or,
for that matter, if someone expresses opinions to the contrary, I'll
listen, otherwise, it seems to me that you're the one with an axe to grind.
--

Larry

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:46:42 -0400, Bob D. wrote:

In article ,
(Gould 0738) wrote:

No, this represents yet one more disaster concerning Bayliner. I have yet
to read any post extolling their virtues. Maybe that says something.

It says you don't know where to look.


Don't waste your breath, Gould. It's more likely that he doesn't want to
hear any positive Bayliner anectdotes. After all, doing so would be to
risk modifying his opinion which would indicate that he is not
infallible. Something that a few people in this group have a problem
accepting.

Bob, I have no idea where you came up with that bull****. I have had NO
opinions on Bayliner pro or con. Nor do I care, frankly. All I've read has
been here.


I said it was LIKELY (not absolutely) you don't want to hear anything
positive. But, more and more, I'll stand by my statement.

There have been both pros and cons posted to this group, yet you cite only
the negative. If Gould was right, and you don't know where to look to make
a more informed statement, instead relying on ONE piece of anectodotal
evidence, fine. Then do yourself a favor, take his advice, and look into
it objectively, instead of being one more blow hard who decided to rudely
shoot his mouth off, then whining something akin to "what did I do to
deserve this?"


As I've stated Bayliner may not be the first choice for many boaters, and
I will conceed that it may not even be a viable choice for some
applications (I still don't know this as fact but, will at least consider
it a reasonable possibility), but I have yet to see any evidence to
support this viewpoints such as Bayliners are "a piece of crap - both the
boat and the company"

Then apparently you haven't been reading the messages here, including the
one to which I responded.


No Larry, apprently YOU haven't been reading the messages in this group.
If you had, you would know there are people who don't blindly bash
Bayliners (or other brands) and even people who actually enjoy them, as
Gould pointed out. So when you whine that you're just echoing what
everyone else said on this group, you are only echoing what a few people
said, and NOT necessarily the concensus of the group. Furthermore, you
make such a bold statement with ABOLUTELY NO FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE as you
had just pointed out.

Besides the human nature attributes you cited, add "People tend to stick
to their initial biases, despite new information" to that list.

You seem to be living proof. For me, if someone can show me otherwise, or,
for that matter, if someone expresses opinions to the contrary, I'll
listen, otherwise, it seems to me that you're the one with an axe to grind.
--


Yes Larry, you pull a statement completely out of your ass like Bayliner's
are "a piece of crap - both the boat and the company", based without ANY
personal experience, while I, who have OWNED AND ENJOYED multiple Bayliner
boats have considered what INFORMED PEOPLE have cited, and have come to
understand that it MAY not be a boaters first choice, and it MAY not be
suitable for all boating applications. Yeah Larry, out of those two
contrasting viewpoints, yours is the reasonable one.

Since your so willing to adjust your point of view based solely on
opinions, how come you didn't take Gould advice and look into BOC web site
or search google for other threads? And while I'll admit there may be
alot of posts bashing Bayliners, there are posts of people who rely upon
and enjoy the boats, meaning they can't all be the piece of crap as you
insinuate.

Just to be fair Larry, you are right. I do have an axe to grind, with
people who rudely shoot off their mouths, without facts, without
provocation, just to be a smart ass. The choice is yours: To behave in a
sensible manner as if you were talking to someone face to face, or rudely
and irrespronsibly repeat sentiments you know nothing about, because no
one knows who you are.

In that vein, in an effort to behave in a sensible manner (not that I'm
always capable), if I misunderstood what you meant by "a piece of crap -
both the boat and the company", please do accept my apologies.

Bob