In article ,
says...

BAR wrote:
In ,
says...
X ` Man wrote:
On 12/5/11 7:54 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:05:52 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

Conservatives do have principles:

http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/u34Brg

There is one lie floating around about the payroll tax cut.

I have heard several times that a 3% surtax on millionaires would pay
for it and if you can believe the IRS, that isn not close to right.

From the IRS tax stats
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09in32tt.xls

Amount of tax
32,755,871,000
19,393,235,000
46,943,630,000
24,617,005,000
53,790,324,000

Income Level

$1,000,000 under $1,500,000
$1,500,000 under $2,000,000
$2,000,000 under $5,000,000
$5,000,000 under $10,000,000
$10,000,000 or more

Number of returns

46,741
20,561
29,928
7,404
4,916


Total tax from the1,000,000
180 billion (round numbers)
3% of 180 is 5.4 billion (using the definition of "surtax" when they
did it in the 70s)

How does that cover a $120 billion dollar tax cut?

Are they really saying they want to raise the marginal rate by 3%
Still won't come close to doing it.
They need to raise the whole tax bite by 66% going from $180B to $300B



The real issue is that the Republicans want to protect their
millionaire supporters from *any* substantive tax increases, even if
it means raising taxes for the middle class by doing away with the
payroll tax cut.

$1500 or so has meaning for middle income folks. It might pay for a
needed car repair, dentist trips for the kids, whatever. The
Republican whores would rather end that tax break for wage earners so
as to shield its clients from paying a bit more.

Payroll taxes are paid my the employer, not the employee. Reduced
payroll taxes help to add jobs, bozo.
Employers do not hire based upon the payroll taxes they have to pay.
It helps. Not a lot but it doesn't hurt.

Revenue per employee is critical if you are a public company. Too much
of a change in either direction and you are going to raise all kinds of
flags with investors.

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 13:01:36 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 08:15:06 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:


How does that cover a $120 billion dollar tax cut?

Are they really saying they want to raise the marginal rate by 3%
Still won't come close to doing it.
They need to raise the whole tax bite by 66% going from $180B to $300B




The real issue is that the Republicans want to protect their millionaire
supporters from *any* substantive tax increases, even if it means
raising taxes for the middle class by doing away with the payroll tax cut.

$1500 or so has meaning for middle income folks. It might pay for a
needed car repair, dentist trips for the kids, whatever. The Republican
whores would rather end that tax break for wage earners so as to shield
its clients from paying a bit more.


I have no problem restoring the Clinton tax rate but I also under just
restoring the part on people over $250k is chump change, just a tad
over half of the payroll tax holiday (Holiday $120b, Bush tax cut on
$250k, $70b per year)

you DO realize that the total income of millionaires in this country
is over a trillion dollars, right?

and the bottom 50% makes only a 1.4 trillion

but the GOP thinks the bottom should pay MORE taxes and the rich LESS


Personally I would like to see the whole tax cut go away. I would also
make Capital Gains progressive, up to the marginal rate (maybe just
starting over in the tax table with your cap gains)
That would make the first of gains and dividends $8360 at 10%, next
$33,900 at 15% etc up to $375k where you pay 35%
That would shut Warren Buffett up.

wow. a right winger who has some freakin' common sense.

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:54:49 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:05:52 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

Conservatives do have principles:

http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/u34Brg


There is one lie floating around about the payroll tax cut.


now let's see...the conservative bull**** is that

tax cuts ALWAYS pay for themselves. this can not be questioned

then this is modified to

tax cuts pay for themselves ONLY if they're given to millionaires.
it's a waste of time to give tax cuts to the middle class because
they're all lazy and shiftless and can be replaced anyhow. god loves
the rich

so let's watch the GOP try to spin this

bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:54:49 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:05:52 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

Conservatives do have principles:

http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/u34Brg

There is one lie floating around about the payroll tax cut.

now let's see...the conservative bull**** is that

tax cuts ALWAYS pay for themselves. this can not be questioned

then this is modified to

tax cuts pay for themselves ONLY if they're given to millionaires.
it's a waste of time to give tax cuts to the middle class because
they're all lazy and shiftless and can be replaced anyhow. god loves
the rich

so let's watch the GOP try to spin this

No need for spin - employees don't pay payroll taxes, employers do.

-HB

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 19:49:17 -0500, Honey Badger
wrote:

bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:54:49 -0500, wrote:

tax cuts pay for themselves ONLY if they're given to millionaires.
it's a waste of time to give tax cuts to the middle class because
they're all lazy and shiftless and can be replaced anyhow. god loves
the rich

so let's watch the GOP try to spin this

No need for spin - employees don't pay payroll taxes, employers do.

-HB

aw gee...you're wrong as usual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

Payroll tax generally refers to two different kinds of similar taxes.
The first kind is a tax that employers are required to withhold from
employees' wages


employers are required to withold from an employee's wages

IOW the employee pays them

BZZTT!! thanks for playing. what do we have for him, johnny?

On 12/5/11 7:53 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 19:49:17 -0500, Honey Badger
wrote:

bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:54:49 -0500, wrote:

tax cuts pay for themselves ONLY if they're given to millionaires.
it's a waste of time to give tax cuts to the middle class because
they're all lazy and shiftless and can be replaced anyhow. god loves
the rich

so let's watch the GOP try to spin this

No need for spin - employees don't pay payroll taxes, employers do.

-HB

aw gee...you're wrong as usual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

Payroll tax generally refers to two different kinds of similar taxes.
The first kind is a tax that employers are required to withhold from
employees' wages


employers are required to withold from an employee's wages

IOW the employee pays them

BZZTT!! thanks for playing. what do we have for him, johnny?


Dan Krueger by any handle is still dumb as a post.

--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug

On Dec 5, 9:37*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 12/5/11 7:53 PM, bpuharic wrote:





On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 19:49:17 -0500, Honey Badger
*wrote:

bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:54:49 -0500, wrote:

tax cuts pay for themselves ONLY if they're given to millionaires.
it's a waste of time to give tax cuts to the middle class because
they're all lazy and shiftless and can be replaced anyhow. god loves
the rich

so let's watch the GOP try to spin this

No need for spin - employees don't pay payroll taxes, employers do.

-HB

aw gee...you're wrong as usual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

Payroll tax generally refers to two different kinds of similar taxes.
The first kind is a tax that employers are required to withhold from
employees' wages

employers are required to withold from an employee's wages

IOW the employee pays them

BZZTT!! thanks for playing. what do we have for him, johnny?

Dan Krueger by any handle is still dumb as a post.

--http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

....and to think he claims to be more than a 'counterman' in his
daddy's contractor supply business.

bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 19:49:17 -0500, Honey Badger
wrote:

bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:54:49 -0500, wrote:

tax cuts pay for themselves ONLY if they're given to millionaires.
it's a waste of time to give tax cuts to the middle class because
they're all lazy and shiftless and can be replaced anyhow. god loves
the rich

so let's watch the GOP try to spin this
No need for spin - employees don't pay payroll taxes, employers do.

-HB
aw gee...you're wrong as usual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

Payroll tax generally refers to two different kinds of similar taxes.
The first kind is a tax that employers are required to withhold from
employees' wages


employers are required to withold from an employee's wages

IOW the employee pays them

BZZTT!! thanks for playing. what do we have for him, johnny?
Wikipedia again? Do employees fine this form, Bob?

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f941.pdf

-HB

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 20:29:46 -0500, Honey Badger
wrote:

bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 19:49:17 -0500, Honey Badger
wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

Payroll tax generally refers to two different kinds of similar taxes.
The first kind is a tax that employers are required to withhold from
employees' wages


employers are required to withold from an employee's wages

IOW the employee pays them

BZZTT!! thanks for playing. what do we have for him, johnny?
Wikipedia again? Do employees fine this form, Bob?

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f941.pdf

-HB

and your rebuttal was?

oh. there wasnt one

thanks.

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 19:49:17 -0500, Honey Badger
wrote:

bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:54:49 -0500, wrote:

tax cuts pay for themselves ONLY if they're given to millionaires.
it's a waste of time to give tax cuts to the middle class because
they're all lazy and shiftless and can be replaced anyhow. god loves
the rich

so let's watch the GOP try to spin this

No need for spin - employees don't pay payroll taxes, employers do.

-HB

aw gee...you're wrong as usual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

Payroll tax generally refers to two different kinds of similar taxes.
The first kind is a tax that employers are required to withhold from
employees' wages


employers are required to withold from an employee's wages

IOW the employee pays them

BZZTT!! thanks for playing. what do we have for him, johnny?


----------------------------------------------------

It's BS, courting to class welfare. The middle class still owe the money,
they are just going to have to come up with it on April 15, and probably a
penalty for underpayment of taxes. Obama is just extending the reduction of
Withholding taxes. Not reducing the tax burden of the taxpayer. Now it
seems Obama claims to be channeling Teddy Roosevelt. But he is not Teddy.
Teddy R. Put bankers and corporate leaders in jail for crimes committed by
the corporations. Obama and his Justice Department has prosecuted zero
miscreants. Fact his most of his close advisors are bankers. Obama and his
people only seem to think of increasing income to the Federal Government to
cut the deficit. Not cut spending as any individual, family or business
would do in a case where outgo exceeds income.