Lost Boat/Adventure Don't Come Cheap
 

Charles Pezeshki wrote in message ...
HI Larry,

I've also thought about quitting Class V altogether. Not to sound like a
snob, but most Eastern "standard" Class V (Watauga, Upper Yough, etc.) isn't
really in the same league as some of the Western stuff-- the main difference
being not so much in the difficulty of the individual drops, but in the
consequences of a swim in truly continuous whitewater.

Not to quibble . . . but neither the Watauga nor the Upper Yough are
class V rivers. The AW site rates both as IV-V, but if you check the
ratings of individual rapids you'll find that the Upper Yough has a
single low V and the Watauga two low V's. Like the Upper Gauley,
which also has a handful of very low V's in AW's opinion (indeed, they
defend their rating of Insignificant as class V by saying "Class V has
to start somewhere . . ."), folks who frequently paddle Eastern Class
V would be unlikely to consider any of these "Class V Classics" class
V rivers.

Like you, now that I have kids I have cut back the difficulty of what
I run considerably, but I have no qualms about running any of the
three rivers listed above at normal flows. Most Eastern Class V's I
do have qualms about running these days.

As an aside, in the days I did paddle a lot of Class V, I found the
Eastern, Rocky Mountain and California ratings pretty consistent (too
little experience in the Pacific Northwest to include). What differed
was what paddlers in the various regions without much experience in
other regions found challenging. Less traveled Eastern boaters often
find high water honking big water bob down the middle challenging,
less traveled Western boaters often find tweeze through the boulder
garden then land on the rocks challenging.

-- Chris

Lost Boat/Adventure Don't Come Cheap
 

Hi Chris,

Good to hear from you!

Are you still running the Green Narrows?

There's a lot that has happened in the boating scene in the East since I
left, and all your points are well-taken.

In reality, I miss Eastern paddling a lot. Runs like the Watauga, Upper
Yough, and such are really great in that the rapids have some gradient, but
they also have pools at the bottom. It's not this 'cataract in the middle
of a Class III rapid' that seems to characterize too much Idaho Class V.

I also miss the warm water.

It's too bad it's so hard to plan a paddling vacation to the East. I'd be
back there next year.

Best,

Chuck

http://www.wildcountry.info

in article , Chris Bell at
wrote on 6/10/04 6:18 AM:

Like you, now that I have kids I have cut back the difficulty of what
I run considerably, but I have no qualms about running any of the
three rivers listed above at normal flows. Most Eastern Class V's I
do have qualms about running these days.

Lost Boat/Adventure Don't Come Cheap
 

Charles Pezeshki wrote in message ...
Hi Chris,

Good to hear from you!

Are you still running the Green Narrows?

Yes, but I walk the "Big Two" and I've never run "Go Left" (Go Left
has a sneak called "Squeeze"). Back in the day I didn't feel like I'd
really run the river unless I ran everything. Now it feels like a
real run even though I'm walking Gorilla and Sunshine! The Narrows is
certainly a step up from the Watauga and the Upper Yough, but it isn't
cutting edge -- unless you're running all the hardest lines and
catching all the eddies in inconvenient, very scary places.

-- Chris

Lost Boat/Adventure Don't Come Cheap
 

(Chris Bell)

Typed in Message-ID:

Not to quibble . . . but neither the Watauga nor the Upper Yough are
class V rivers. The AW site rates both as IV-V, but if you check the
ratings of individual rapids you'll find that the Upper Yough has a
single low V and the Watauga two low V's. Like the Upper Gauley,
which also has a handful of very low V's in AW's opinion (indeed,

they
defend their rating of Insignificant as class V by saying "Class V has
to start somewhere . . ."), folks who frequently paddle Eastern Class
V would be unlikely to consider any of these "Class V Classics" class
V rivers.

Have to agree with Chris on this one. While these were cutting edge streams 10
years ago, there are not the extreme end of Eastern WW now. I would have to
give that to runs like Deckers, Otter, Manns and some of the really tiny and
steep stuff coming off the Walden's Ridge in Tennessee.

What differed
was what paddlers in the various regions without much experience in
other regions found challenging. Less traveled Eastern boaters often
find high water honking big water bob down the middle challenging,
less traveled Western boaters often find tweeze through the boulder

garden then land on the rocks challenging.

I've also found that true. I once ran the New at reasonably high flow, about
4.5' at Fayette Station with a group of reasonably skilled Tennessee Creek
Boaters. Several
very good boaters had repeated swims because they weren't use to dealing with
the big water. I've had Western boaters tell me that the Little in the Smokies
wasn't runnable at 1000 cfs (which is a pretty decent level BTW).


SYOTR
Larry C.

Lost Boat/Adventure Don't Come Cheap
 

I all ears about real STABLE creekers for big guys. I've been thinking
about the Micro 250. Since this boat is out of production, I haven't the
foggiest where I'd locate one.

What about the Perception Corsica?

Quite frankly, I'm looking for a boat that WON'T spin on a dime.

Wave Sport Extreme, though you learn to become quite good at running
stuff backwards because once it does turn around.....

For a boat still in production maybe the Prijon Chopper. I also have
Zirk's Wave Sport Descent if you want that for the cost of shipping.

--Chris

Lost Boat/Adventure Don't Come Cheap
 

Hi Chris,

That's mighty generous of you. I still have the uber-boat-- the Prijon
Tornado, though.

That will serve me, mostly.

Best,

Chuck

in article , Chris Webster at
wrote on 6/12/04 7:35 AM:

Wave Sport Extreme, though you learn to become quite good at running
stuff backwards because once it does turn around.....

For a boat still in production maybe the Prijon Chopper. I also have
Zirk's Wave Sport Descent if you want that for the cost of shipping.

--Chris