I don't mean to make this any more confusing than it must already seem, but
there really are a number of things to try to consider. Buying a boat is a
complex decision -- well, I found it very complex anyway.

So I've said two things that probably seem contradictory:

1) The one with the beat up leg I said that if it was beat up on a regular
basis and never apparently repaired I would be concerned about the rest of
the boat. If the owner wasn't a "maintainer" then there are probably other
items that haven't been maintained. This would cause me concern and make me
lean towards the other boat.

2) I said that if you were replacing that leg and doing the other things you
mentioned then I would reconsider it because those items would be new.

But ... you still have to look at the rest of the boat.

Let's put it this way:

Boat 1 is $7,500 more but doesn't need those items done.
Boat 2 will need $7,500 to take care of those items but *other than that* is
equal, then I would take boat #2 because those items will be brand new.

If only it were that simple, two boats are never equal.

Now you have to investigate the "other than that" part of the question,
especially if #2 wasn't owned by a maintainer. But if that damage was caused
by one hit and the rest of the boat looks like it's been adequately taken
care of then I would be inclined to lean towards it. On the other hand, if
it looks like he's let it slowly go to hell then ... well, then there might
be more surprises for you. But ... you still have those brand new parts that
you don't have to worry about.

Can you get maintenance records/receipts for the boats in question? This
tells you a whole bunch about the owners.

I'm sure people are sick of this story (sorry) but here's what did it for
me: My boat had a special waterproof folder where the owner kept every
single manual for everything on the boat and the marina had records going
back to 1995 (boat was built in 1989).

The slip neighbours also offered up examples of his fastidiousness with
cleaning and you could eat off the bilge floor. The frickin' salt and pepper
shakers had their own little "place" where they were velcroed to the
countertop and he had an entire locker full of cleaning supplies. There were
head chemical bottles in the head cabninets, half full. Three hatches, but
four screens (a thinking man prepares in advance).

Little examples everywhere, some were not major things just little examples.
Flares and fire extinguishers were in-date but not brand new -- he obviously
didn't just buy them/have them inspected to spruce it up for sale. The
anchor had obviously been repaired ... but it *had been* repaired. Little
examples, be a detective and let the boat tell you about the owner.

I got the feeling that he cared for his boat -- I was overjoyed to buy a
boat from an owner like that! Just my advice but look for these "signs";
these items weighed heavily in my decision. The surveryor commented
extensively on this in his own observations. Imagine what this nickel and
dime crap would cost you if you had to do it all at once.

Without question, on either boat get a survey and mention your concerns to
the surveyor. Also get a mechanical inspection because these reports give
you *facts* ... obviously much better than just impressions.

However, eventually you make your best decision and hope like hell you've
done the right thing. As my sister once said ... spin the wheel and take
your chances.


"whenindoubt" wrote in message
om...
Arrgggg. Now I'm back where I started. You guys make a good point. Less
$$$
for the boat, all new parts. I'll at least know the condition they are in.
The outdrive took a serious hit. It had a golfball size chunk taken out of
the leading edge of the skeg and the prop edges all had ragged banged up
edges. Could a hit like that do engine or transom damage or are outdrives
supposed to give on impact. i.e. sacrifice itself for the sake of the
boat?

"Paul" wrote in message
. rogers.com...
Actually on that one I would be on the other side of the line, this way
you
would have a new outdrive and prop, new ac/heat and new bottom paint.



"whenindoubt" wrote in message
...
Thanks Bob,
I just did the math. Pay $7500 more up front for the better boat, or
$3000-4000 plus labor for the new outdrive and prop. $2000 for ac/heat
and
maybe $500 for bottom paint. There is the $7500 difference in price.


"Bob D." wrote in message
...
I'll disagree with previous posters. I don't think we have enough
information to give specific advice on which boat is better for you.
It
depends on what your willing to do youself in a project boat. I also
think
that the boat without bottom paint may be a good thing. It might be
easier to inspect for gel coat crack which *MAY* be the sign of a
stressed
hull.

Someone commented that if the outdrive is banged out of shape then
that
might indicate the overall care that was given to the vessel, that
seems
to be sound advice to take into consideration. Talk to the owner
about
it
and giage their resonse. See if fall toward "we hit something late
in
the
season, and havent had it repaired" to "It don't seem to hurt none".
You
get the idea.

For a new (if they still make them) Alpha I outdrive, expect to pay
$3000
to $4000 dollars for the unit itself. YMMV on installation charges.
Have
all the bell housing seals replaced and the engine coupling aligned
as
well for about 200-300 dollars more.

I don't know what bottom painting cost as I've always done the work
myself.

Good luck in your purchase and let us know how it works out!

Bob Dimond


In article ,
"whenindoubt"
wrote:

Can anyone give me some ballpark prices I'd expect to pay for the
following
items?

I'm looking at 2 similar boats at vastly different prices. The
cheaper
one
lacks bottom paint and factory air/heat. The outdrive is real
banged
up
too.
I think the repairs might cost more than the price difference
between
the
two boats, but I don't know. I'm a newbie and have not owned a
24ft
boat
before.

How much for:
A yard applied bottom paint job? 24ft boat.

A new outdrive unit and prop for a 1996 mercruiser. I think the
original
is
an alpha one.

An airconditioning/heat system that is like a factory installed
job.
Not
a
portable.

Thanks for the help.

I just went out and bought the 3rd boat I saw that day. Took one Day, it
happened to be the newest of course, best looking, and looked to be in the
best shape. No survey, thought about it , tried to find somebody to do it,
while I was looking for one, asked one what he would charge and he wanted
$500,couldn't find anybody that could fit me in there schedule, that was the
end of my survey, looked the boat over alittle, took it for a test run after
the guy painted it and had it put in the water, ( it was sitting in a marina
which was helpful to look at the hull and bang on it some, kinda like
kicking the tires) listened to the engine real hard with the cover off while
under way, sounded good and ran smooth, as in no vibration. Boat was very
clean and looked to be well taken care of. Never saw the outdrive before
buying it. That may have told me something. Had all the Maint. papers. (just
winterizing and spring startup receipts) which had I known boats would have
told me 9 yrs. on a boat with no real maint. problems I will be replacing
parts down the road i.e.; manifolds, risers. Just put about a $1000 in parts
into it last winter, and probably should put about that much into it this
winter (like the manifolds and risers) nothing major. Would do it all over
again the same way, had some great times. Guess I just got lucky. PS I work
on all my engines and cars so I know them fairly well, this is my first
boat, just bought it in 2002, froze it last winter, just $10 repair, (
lucky ), would like some more power though, 26' with 5.8 L. Bite the bullet,
make the decision, (I wouldn't buy the older one if you don't know
mechanic's, that is u can do it) also I have a partner, talk about possible
problems. GL HAVE FUN TAKE A SAFE BOATING CG COURSE @ LEAST


"Paul" wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
I don't mean to make this any more confusing than it must already seem,
but
there really are a number of things to try to consider. Buying a boat is a
complex decision -- well, I found it very complex anyway.

So I've said two things that probably seem contradictory:

1) The one with the beat up leg I said that if it was beat up on a regular
basis and never apparently repaired I would be concerned about the rest of
the boat. If the owner wasn't a "maintainer" then there are probably other
items that haven't been maintained. This would cause me concern and make
me
lean towards the other boat.

2) I said that if you were replacing that leg and doing the other things
you
mentioned then I would reconsider it because those items would be new.

But ... you still have to look at the rest of the boat.

Let's put it this way:

Boat 1 is $7,500 more but doesn't need those items done.
Boat 2 will need $7,500 to take care of those items but *other than that*
is
equal, then I would take boat #2 because those items will be brand new.

If only it were that simple, two boats are never equal.

Now you have to investigate the "other than that" part of the question,
especially if #2 wasn't owned by a maintainer. But if that damage was
caused
by one hit and the rest of the boat looks like it's been adequately taken
care of then I would be inclined to lean towards it. On the other hand, if
it looks like he's let it slowly go to hell then ... well, then there
might
be more surprises for you. But ... you still have those brand new parts
that
you don't have to worry about.

Can you get maintenance records/receipts for the boats in question? This
tells you a whole bunch about the owners.

I'm sure people are sick of this story (sorry) but here's what did it for
me: My boat had a special waterproof folder where the owner kept every
single manual for everything on the boat and the marina had records going
back to 1995 (boat was built in 1989).

The slip neighbours also offered up examples of his fastidiousness with
cleaning and you could eat off the bilge floor. The frickin' salt and
pepper
shakers had their own little "place" where they were velcroed to the
countertop and he had an entire locker full of cleaning supplies. There
were
head chemical bottles in the head cabninets, half full. Three hatches, but
four screens (a thinking man prepares in advance).

Little examples everywhere, some were not major things just little
examples.
Flares and fire extinguishers were in-date but not brand new -- he
obviously
didn't just buy them/have them inspected to spruce it up for sale. The
anchor had obviously been repaired ... but it *had been* repaired. Little
examples, be a detective and let the boat tell you about the owner.

I got the feeling that he cared for his boat -- I was overjoyed to buy a
boat from an owner like that! Just my advice but look for these "signs";
these items weighed heavily in my decision. The surveryor commented
extensively on this in his own observations. Imagine what this nickel and
dime crap would cost you if you had to do it all at once.

Without question, on either boat get a survey and mention your concerns to
the surveyor. Also get a mechanical inspection because these reports give
you *facts* ... obviously much better than just impressions.

However, eventually you make your best decision and hope like hell you've
done the right thing. As my sister once said ... spin the wheel and take
your chances.


"whenindoubt" wrote in message
om...
Arrgggg. Now I'm back where I started. You guys make a good point. Less
$$$
for the boat, all new parts. I'll at least know the condition they are
in.
The outdrive took a serious hit. It had a golfball size chunk taken out
of
the leading edge of the skeg and the prop edges all had ragged banged up
edges. Could a hit like that do engine or transom damage or are
outdrives
supposed to give on impact. i.e. sacrifice itself for the sake of the
boat?

"Paul" wrote in message
. rogers.com...
Actually on that one I would be on the other side of the line, this
way
you
would have a new outdrive and prop, new ac/heat and new bottom paint.



"whenindoubt" wrote in message
...
Thanks Bob,
I just did the math. Pay $7500 more up front for the better boat, or
$3000-4000 plus labor for the new outdrive and prop. $2000 for
ac/heat
and
maybe $500 for bottom paint. There is the $7500 difference in price.


"Bob D." wrote in message
...
I'll disagree with previous posters. I don't think we have enough
information to give specific advice on which boat is better for
you.
It
depends on what your willing to do youself in a project boat. I
also
think
that the boat without bottom paint may be a good thing. It might
be
easier to inspect for gel coat crack which *MAY* be the sign of a
stressed
hull.

Someone commented that if the outdrive is banged out of shape then
that
might indicate the overall care that was given to the vessel, that
seems
to be sound advice to take into consideration. Talk to the owner
about
it
and giage their resonse. See if fall toward "we hit something
late
in
the
season, and havent had it repaired" to "It don't seem to hurt
none".
You
get the idea.

For a new (if they still make them) Alpha I outdrive, expect to
pay
$3000
to $4000 dollars for the unit itself. YMMV on installation
charges.
Have
all the bell housing seals replaced and the engine coupling
aligned
as
well for about 200-300 dollars more.

I don't know what bottom painting cost as I've always done the
work
myself.

Good luck in your purchase and let us know how it works out!

Bob Dimond


In article ,
"whenindoubt"
wrote:

Can anyone give me some ballpark prices I'd expect to pay for
the
following
items?

I'm looking at 2 similar boats at vastly different prices. The
cheaper
one
lacks bottom paint and factory air/heat. The outdrive is real
banged
up
too.
I think the repairs might cost more than the price difference
between
the
two boats, but I don't know. I'm a newbie and have not owned a
24ft
boat
before.

How much for:
A yard applied bottom paint job? 24ft boat.

A new outdrive unit and prop for a 1996 mercruiser. I think the
original
is
an alpha one.

An airconditioning/heat system that is like a factory installed
job.
Not
a
portable.

Thanks for the help.

Did I say 250 hrs. I thought that was low. how many hrs. do these boats
have?

"Wildest Dream" wrote in message
. net...
I just went out and bought the 3rd boat I saw that day. Took one Day, it
happened to be the newest of course, best looking, and looked to be in the
best shape. No survey, thought about it , tried to find somebody to do it,
while I was looking for one, asked one what he would charge and he wanted
$500,couldn't find anybody that could fit me in there schedule, that was
the
end of my survey, looked the boat over alittle, took it for a test run
after
the guy painted it and had it put in the water, ( it was sitting in a
marina
which was helpful to look at the hull and bang on it some, kinda like
kicking the tires) listened to the engine real hard with the cover off
while
under way, sounded good and ran smooth, as in no vibration. Boat was very
clean and looked to be well taken care of. Never saw the outdrive before
buying it. That may have told me something. Had all the Maint. papers.
(just
winterizing and spring startup receipts) which had I known boats would
have
told me 9 yrs. on a boat with no real maint. problems I will be replacing
parts down the road i.e.; manifolds, risers. Just put about a $1000 in
parts
into it last winter, and probably should put about that much into it this
winter (like the manifolds and risers) nothing major. Would do it all over
again the same way, had some great times. Guess I just got lucky. PS I
work
on all my engines and cars so I know them fairly well, this is my first
boat, just bought it in 2002, froze it last winter, just $10 repair, (
lucky ), would like some more power though, 26' with 5.8 L. Bite the
bullet,
make the decision, (I wouldn't buy the older one if you don't know
mechanic's, that is u can do it) also I have a partner, talk about
possible
problems. GL HAVE FUN TAKE A SAFE BOATING CG COURSE @ LEAST


"Paul" wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
I don't mean to make this any more confusing than it must already seem,
but
there really are a number of things to try to consider. Buying a boat is
a
complex decision -- well, I found it very complex anyway.

So I've said two things that probably seem contradictory:

1) The one with the beat up leg I said that if it was beat up on a
regular
basis and never apparently repaired I would be concerned about the rest
of
the boat. If the owner wasn't a "maintainer" then there are probably
other
items that haven't been maintained. This would cause me concern and make
me
lean towards the other boat.

2) I said that if you were replacing that leg and doing the other things
you
mentioned then I would reconsider it because those items would be new.

But ... you still have to look at the rest of the boat.

Let's put it this way:

Boat 1 is $7,500 more but doesn't need those items done.
Boat 2 will need $7,500 to take care of those items but *other than
that*
is
equal, then I would take boat #2 because those items will be brand new.

If only it were that simple, two boats are never equal.

Now you have to investigate the "other than that" part of the question,
especially if #2 wasn't owned by a maintainer. But if that damage was
caused
by one hit and the rest of the boat looks like it's been adequately
taken
care of then I would be inclined to lean towards it. On the other hand,
if
it looks like he's let it slowly go to hell then ... well, then there
might
be more surprises for you. But ... you still have those brand new parts
that
you don't have to worry about.

Can you get maintenance records/receipts for the boats in question? This
tells you a whole bunch about the owners.

I'm sure people are sick of this story (sorry) but here's what did it
for
me: My boat had a special waterproof folder where the owner kept every
single manual for everything on the boat and the marina had records
going
back to 1995 (boat was built in 1989).

The slip neighbours also offered up examples of his fastidiousness with
cleaning and you could eat off the bilge floor. The frickin' salt and
pepper
shakers had their own little "place" where they were velcroed to the
countertop and he had an entire locker full of cleaning supplies. There
were
head chemical bottles in the head cabninets, half full. Three hatches,
but
four screens (a thinking man prepares in advance).

Little examples everywhere, some were not major things just little
examples.
Flares and fire extinguishers were in-date but not brand new -- he
obviously
didn't just buy them/have them inspected to spruce it up for sale. The
anchor had obviously been repaired ... but it *had been* repaired.
Little
examples, be a detective and let the boat tell you about the owner.

I got the feeling that he cared for his boat -- I was overjoyed to buy a
boat from an owner like that! Just my advice but look for these "signs";
these items weighed heavily in my decision. The surveryor commented
extensively on this in his own observations. Imagine what this nickel
and
dime crap would cost you if you had to do it all at once.

Without question, on either boat get a survey and mention your concerns
to
the surveyor. Also get a mechanical inspection because these reports
give
you *facts* ... obviously much better than just impressions.

However, eventually you make your best decision and hope like hell
you've
done the right thing. As my sister once said ... spin the wheel and take
your chances.


"whenindoubt" wrote in message
om...
Arrgggg. Now I'm back where I started. You guys make a good point.
Less
$$$
for the boat, all new parts. I'll at least know the condition they are
in.
The outdrive took a serious hit. It had a golfball size chunk taken
out
of
the leading edge of the skeg and the prop edges all had ragged banged
up
edges. Could a hit like that do engine or transom damage or are
outdrives
supposed to give on impact. i.e. sacrifice itself for the sake of the
boat?

"Paul" wrote in message
. rogers.com...
Actually on that one I would be on the other side of the line, this
way
you
would have a new outdrive and prop, new ac/heat and new bottom
paint.



"whenindoubt" wrote in message
...
Thanks Bob,
I just did the math. Pay $7500 more up front for the better boat,
or
$3000-4000 plus labor for the new outdrive and prop. $2000 for
ac/heat
and
maybe $500 for bottom paint. There is the $7500 difference in
price.


"Bob D." wrote in message
...
I'll disagree with previous posters. I don't think we have
enough
information to give specific advice on which boat is better for
you.
It
depends on what your willing to do youself in a project boat. I
also
think
that the boat without bottom paint may be a good thing. It
might
be
easier to inspect for gel coat crack which *MAY* be the sign of
a
stressed
hull.

Someone commented that if the outdrive is banged out of shape
then
that
might indicate the overall care that was given to the vessel,
that
seems
to be sound advice to take into consideration. Talk to the
owner
about
it
and giage their resonse. See if fall toward "we hit something
late
in
the
season, and havent had it repaired" to "It don't seem to hurt
none".
You
get the idea.

For a new (if they still make them) Alpha I outdrive, expect to
pay
$3000
to $4000 dollars for the unit itself. YMMV on installation
charges.
Have
all the bell housing seals replaced and the engine coupling
aligned
as
well for about 200-300 dollars more.

I don't know what bottom painting cost as I've always done the
work
myself.

Good luck in your purchase and let us know how it works out!

Bob Dimond


In article ,
"whenindoubt"
wrote:

Can anyone give me some ballpark prices I'd expect to pay for
the
following
items?

I'm looking at 2 similar boats at vastly different prices. The
cheaper
one
lacks bottom paint and factory air/heat. The outdrive is real
banged
up
too.
I think the repairs might cost more than the price difference
between
the
two boats, but I don't know. I'm a newbie and have not owned a
24ft
boat
before.

How much for:
A yard applied bottom paint job? 24ft boat.

A new outdrive unit and prop for a 1996 mercruiser. I think
the
original
is
an alpha one.

An airconditioning/heat system that is like a factory
installed
job.
Not
a
portable.

Thanks for the help.