Another article worth reading:
http://www.sailnet.com/sailing/04/full_by_0304.pdf
This appears to be another myth...

When I was a member of a team instructing in Mountain Walking (In the UK
) we spent a great deal of time stressing the safety aspect. The Team
Leader always gave a short address at the begining - He always started
with the same phrase - Any Fool Can Be Carried Off A Mountain - Same
applies to PFDs - Any Body Can Be Recovered.
Personally - When I coach you abide by my rules - If I wear one then so
do
you. Let someone else tell their family that they will not be coming
home. Unless it's in a wooden box. I agree life is often over regulated
but common sense or 'Sods Law' tells you that **** Happens!

Frank Healy



--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

A tough, tough issue.
Someone posted that there are no arguments against seat belts. I lost
a friend, burned alive in a car while hanging upside down from his
seat belt which he could not get undone. He might argue that point if
he could.
Another friend lost his brother in a single motorcycle accident. The
Bell full-face he was wearing broke his neck when he landed in the
ditch and he suffocated by the side of the road. His family doctor
made the mistake of telling this to my friend, who had given his
brother that helmet as a birthday gift. He might be inclined to argue
for choice also.
That said, I ALWYAS wear my helmet when riding, ALWAYS wear my
seatbelt when driving, and ALWAYS wear my pfd when paddling. I've seen
and heard about too many deaths that prove the rule rather than the
exception.

magoo_ns wrote:

A tough, tough issue.
Someone posted that there are no arguments against seat belts. I lost
a friend, burned alive in a car while hanging upside down from his
seat belt which he could not get undone. He might argue that point if
he could.

Tough break for your friend. My sympathies. He spun the wheel and ended
up in the 1% of accidents that result in fires and the tiny % of
seatbelts that won't release. If he hadn't been wearing the seatbelt he
might have been killed outright or rendered unconscious by the impact,
which in a sad way, would have been better.

Another friend lost his brother in a single motorcycle accident. The
Bell full-face he was wearing broke his neck when he landed in the
ditch and he suffocated by the side of the road. His family doctor
made the mistake of telling this to my friend, who had given his
brother that helmet as a birthday gift. He might be inclined to argue
for choice also.

The impact with the ground broke his neck, not the helmet. I haven't
seen many family doctors who are also accident scene investigation
specialists, so I'd say the old doc is just incredibly insensitive at best.

That said, I ALWYAS wear my helmet when riding, ALWAYS wear my
seatbelt when driving, and ALWAYS wear my pfd when paddling. I've seen
and heard about too many deaths that prove the rule rather than the
exception.

Me, too. Betting your life against high odds is, IMO, foolish.

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

I have no problem protecting personal freedoms I believe they are important
but when you want to write the cheque and ask someone else to cash it that's
a different story. If the people who choose not to wear there life jackets
want to take responsibility for their action when things go wrong then its
ok with me. Responsibility includes taking care of the rescue search and
rescue cost any air ambulance fees and so one it is different in the states
but in Canada it is a socialized system so we all pickup the hospital bills
for yahoos that throw caution to the wind. There has been some talk now of
doing what they do in the Grand Canyon as well if you choose to go down into
the canyon and can't make it back up the cost is on you. That should go to
anyone that tries an outdoor activity and doesn't take proper care and
prevention measures. Having said that I would point out there should be room
for circumstance which are out of control of those involved but there are
ways to decide that even.
You can play with statistics all you want but if something requires two
measures to make it safe why not be SMART and put in a third. Training,
experience and safe equipment(being used) make for a safe outdoor adventure.

--
Abe Elias
Diving Sparrow Paddle Co,
http://home.cogeco.ca/~aelias

Well said!!

"Canranger44" wrote in message
...
I have no problem protecting personal freedoms I believe they are
important
but when you want to write the cheque and ask someone else to cash it
that's
a different story. If the people who choose not to wear there life jackets
want to take responsibility for their action when things go wrong then its
ok with me. Responsibility includes taking care of the rescue search and
rescue cost any air ambulance fees and so one it is different in the
states
but in Canada it is a socialized system so we all pickup the hospital
bills
for yahoos that throw caution to the wind. There has been some talk now of
doing what they do in the Grand Canyon as well if you choose to go down
into
the canyon and can't make it back up the cost is on you. That should go to
anyone that tries an outdoor activity and doesn't take proper care and
prevention measures. Having said that I would point out there should be
room
for circumstance which are out of control of those involved but there are
ways to decide that even.
You can play with statistics all you want but if something requires two
measures to make it safe why not be SMART and put in a third. Training,
experience and safe equipment(being used) make for a safe outdoor
adventure.

--
Abe Elias
Diving Sparrow Paddle Co,
http://home.cogeco.ca/~aelias

In either accident, the alternative outcome in not known and not
knowable. They died with the safety feature; they might have died
without. This doesn't argue for or against.

Ok, I can add one. My cousin was broadsided a long time ago, she was
not wearing a seatbelt and was able to jump into the passenger seat at
or near impact time. She believes she would be dead had she been
wearing her seat belt.

--Chris

Ok, I can add one. My cousin was broadsided a long time ago, she was
not wearing a seatbelt and was able to jump into the passenger seat at
or near impact time. She believes she would be dead had she been
wearing her seat belt.


Still meaningless. She could have survived the initial impact but been
killed in subsequent car-getting-smashed-up-events.


But she didn't. I was just countering the counter of the examples of
people who didn't live but were wearing them.


Being loose in a
car is riskier than being belted in, regardless of orientation of
impact.


I am not trying to argue the issue, just giving an example.


One incident does not counter the stats for the population. She was
lucky.

I didn't mean to imply it did, I'm fully aware of statistics. And
agreed [to B].

--Chris

I don't want to start an argument here but when you take the topic of a PFD
it is design in the case of an emergency to keep the vital part of your body
the head a float you can look at what if and different situations but to me
it is a good safety plan if you are sea kayaking and the surf keeps pounding
you under it will bring you back up. Canoeing it allows you to stay a float
in rapids to try and guide your way through if you dump and so on it is a
useful tool one for all intensive purposes makes sense but it is your
choice. All I am saying is it makes sense to use every safety feature made
available for this sport no reflection on seatbelt or helmets and chances of
things happening. Watersports are characterized by the danger of many things
but perhaps the most prominent is getting a lung full of water. When a
person chooses to take a course of action such as forgoing a safety measure
then that person should realize they choose to take responsibility. By the
way it is mandatory in Canada to have a PFD for each person, a throw bag,
baling device, a sound signaling device and a visual signaling device.

--
Abe Elias
Diving Sparrow Paddle Co,
http://home.cogeco.ca/~aelias

There is this strange one in France where the floatation of pfd you
don't have to wear (unless in a commercial situation) depends on what
craft you are in. Bigger floatation for rafters than for canoeists and
kayak paddlers. Why does it make a difference what craft you fell out
of!

Also will end up with having to wear a pfd if we want to go swimming in
a river or lake!


--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk