I don't know if I'm talking only to Larry Cable here, but on the
off-chance that somebody else is lurking or willing to post...

Last fall I bought a new AIRE Lynx to replace my 1993 model, which
is still in service though with many patches on the floor bottom.
After several trips I have concluded that I agree with Larry about
the new seat. We don't like it! It's nice that it unbuckles easily,
leaving the boat open for sleeping, and it makes an OK camp chair.
However the sides interfere with rudder strokes, and it just feels
sloppy.

I liked the old-style (uncovered coated-nylon) seat that came with
my 1993 boat. It cradled my butt, giving a feeling of more control
and greater power.

What can be done? Thwarts are relatively uncomfortable and don't
solve the control/power problem. Maybe I should experiment with
buckling in my old-style seat?

In article , Bill Tuthill
writes:

I don't know if I'm talking only to Larry Cable here, but on the
off-chance that somebody else is lurking or willing to post...

Last fall I bought a new AIRE Lynx to replace my 1993 model, which
is still in service though with many patches on the floor bottom.
After several trips I have concluded that I agree with Larry about
the new seat. We don't like it! It's nice that it unbuckles easily,
leaving the boat open for sleeping, and it makes an OK camp chair.
However the sides interfere with rudder strokes, and it just feels
sloppy.

I liked the old-style (uncovered coated-nylon) seat that came with
my 1993 boat. It cradled my butt, giving a feeling of more control
and greater power.

My take is still that the thwart is the best way to go. It actually gives
better back support and it lowers your center of gravity. Best of all, it is
out of the way of your paddle strokes. It does eat up a lot of room, not an
issue here where we run mainly day trips, and I don't have mine so that it can
be removed, although I don't see why you couldn't mount it with the same type
strap system as the seat.

BTW, two great days of creeking on the Cumberland Plateau. A sweet little creek
called Upper Whites Creek (Rhea County, TN) on Saturday and Crab Orchard on the
Emory/Obed System on Sunday. Whites is a little micro that you can only run at
extremely high water, and we had plenty Saturday. This little gem drops about
100 ft a mile, the first 2.5 miles are a continous Class III rapid (continous
as in no pools).
If Upper Whites was Down Hill, then Crab Orchard is Slalom. A nice Class
II/III+
Creek, we ran it at moderate level of 1.5'. Saturday was 35 degrees and sunny,
Sunday started out at 55 and sunny, the rained and dropped cold about the last
hour of the trip.

Do you have the new Lynx with the increased rise and narrow front end?


SYOTR
Larry C.

Larry Cable wrote:

My take is still that the thwart is the best way to go. It actually
gives better back support and it lowers your center of gravity.
Best of all, it is out of the way of your paddle strokes. It does
eat up a lot of room, not an issue here where we run mainly day
trips, and I don't have mine so that it can be removed, although I
don't see why you couldn't mount it with the same type strap system
as the seat.

Have you seen the pillow-style thwart used in the Caracal and Tomcat?
It detracts little from gear storage space. Personally I don't think
thwarts are as comfortable as the early-1990s Lynx chair. When I did
the Escalante, I loaned out my Lynx, and put my spare old-Lynx chair
in a 2-person Maravia Challenger for myself. That's because I knew
the Challenger thwart is too uncomfortable for an 8-day expedition.
AIRE's pillow-thwart is a bit more comfortable than that one.

By the way, I recommend against the round-your-boat cam strap that
AIRE documents, expecially for low water, because it can get trapped
in rocks, causing a flip or other potentially dangerous situations.

Do you have the new Lynx with the increased rise and narrow front end?

Yes. I now believe that it's superior to the old hull design for
running big hydraulics. It slices & dices waves better, and takes on
less water. Its hull speed is a tad faster, and stability also seems
somewhat improved, due to aforementioned slicing, but perhaps more so
because of a more hydrodynamic side-tube profile. In other words,
when big waves slosh over the side, they don't exert as much force.

I loaned out the new Lynx on a Middle Fork Salmon trip last July,
and a rookie took it thru Impassible Canyon at moderately high flow
with only one swim, early on in a nothing rapid.

On the downside, I found that when running ultra-low-water Camp creek,
http://creekin.net/camp.htm
the back end got caught more in rocks. That could have been because
my seat was too far back. I've since moved it forward, but haven't
done any ultra-low-water creeks since then.

BTW, two great days of creeking on the Cumberland Plateau...

Sounds great, I'm moving!

Bill Tuthill

Typed in Message-ID:

Have you seen the pillow-style thwart used in the Caracal and Tomcat?
It detracts little from gear storage space. Personally I don't think
thwarts are as comfortable as the early-1990s Lynx chair.

The pillow thwart doesn't give you the back support the the new style thwart
does. I had a pillow thwart in my old Jack Yak and did like it much. I don't
think thwarts are more comfortable either, but they aren't uncomfortable and I
feel the better control is worth the difference. But that is just my opinion

..By the way, I recommend against the round-your-boat cam strap that
AIRE documents, expecially for low water, because it can get trapped
in rocks, causing a flip or other potentially dangerous situations.

I use it on high water runs because it does make the craft easier to upright,
but take it off for all other runs.

Yes. I now believe that it's superior to the old hull design for
running big hydraulics. It slices & dices waves better, and takes on
less water. Its hull speed is a tad faster, and stability also seems
somewhat improved, due to aforementioned slicing, but perhaps more so
because of a more hydrodynamic

ide-tube profile. In other words,
when big waves slosh over the side, they don't exert as much force.

I almost wish I had waited a year to pick up the new one. It did take care of
most of my gripes about the Lynx.

Have you tried the Force or Force XL yet?
I've done a bit of creeking with the XL, including a low water run on the
Russell Fork. It's actually makes a pretty decent creek boat, although it
doesn't have any gear capacity and it is very wet.

BTW, two great days of creeking on the Cumberland Plateau...

Sounds great, I'm moving!

The water is warmer here at the end of winter than the water in the American
River
is in mid summer. Upper Whites is a Micro, you wear a faceguard to keep the
branches out of your face, but it sure goes down hill fast.

Let me know if you ever come out this way. I think you would enjoy the low
water runs on the Russell Fork and you can usually catch that all summer.



SYOTR
Larry C.

Larry Cable wrote:

Have you tried the Force or Force XL yet?

Yes, both, although not on class 4.

My feeling is that you might as well get a hardshell,
because they are less expensive, won't puncture when
dragged over rocks, and have more gear storage capacity.

Heck, my friend who paddles a Force XL even made me
carry his lunch!

The LiquidLogic Gus is one example of a hardshell kayak
with adequate capacity and performance for camping trips.
AIRE used to make the Force XL in "Expedition" format
without inflatable backrest and footrest (now discontinued),
but it's hard to see the point. It just looks like a Lynx
without bow rise.

Bill Tuthill

type in Message-ID:

Have you tried the Force or Force XL yet?

Yes, both, although not on class 4.

My feeling is that you might as well get a hardshell,
because they are less expensive, won't puncture when

dragged over rocks, and have more gear storage capacity.

Heck, my friend who paddles a Force XL even made me
carry his lunch!

It's just a lack of innovation on his part. I found a net deck bag for a sea
kayak made by Voyager and it fits perfect on the rear deck. I can keep a small
pin kit, a paddlers first aid kit, a 70' 5/16 spectra
throwrope, a small drybag (minimal survival gear and my lunch) and a water
bottle in the bag. It keeps things organized and eazy to access, nothing flops
around if you flip and if doesn't seem to effect the balance. That's about the
same gear as I normally carry on creeks in the hardshell.
Tell you buddy to buy one, I think mine was about 15 bucks.

It is a faster boat, it eddies and turns quicker and actually handles big drops
pretty well. It will resurface quicker than
a creek style kayak. You still sit high enough were you do have a sight
advantage. And of course it is still safer in a pin.

I still can't roll the beast, but I'm working on it.
SYOTR
Larry C.