|
The dinghy problem again
I've given away another dinghy.
So far, over the years, i have tried various dinghies for my 28' sailboat: A very heavy 8' Nautilus rigid dinghy that was too large to fit on the foredeck and too heavy. A Sevylor inflatable.........nearly worthless. A Sevylor "Sea Eagle" inflatable kayak, a little better but paddled poorly. A home built 2-Paw-9 nesting dinghy, rows very well and almost fits on the foredeck (I just gave it away) So, I considered a 10' portabote but it is too long to fit inside the shrouds on the side deck. An 8' one might work but their capacity is low. I am 180 lbs wife is about 135, carrying capacity is only about 350 lbs Another inflatable? This would also mean an engine for it and carrying gas. Ideas? |
The dinghy problem again
On Jun 13, 11:45*am, I_am_Tosk
wrote: In article 0c13b1af-61ec-4fb8-b3e9- , says... I've given away another dinghy. So far, over the years, i have tried various dinghies for my 28' sailboat: A very heavy 8' *Nautilus rigid dinghy that was too large to fit on the foredeck and too heavy. A Sevylor inflatable.........nearly worthless. A Sevylor "Sea Eagle" inflatable kayak, a little better but paddled poorly. A home built 2-Paw-9 nesting dinghy, rows very well and almost fits on the foredeck (I just gave it away) So, I considered a 10' portabote but it is too long to fit inside the shrouds on the side deck. *An 8' one might work but their capacity is low. *I am 180 lbs wife is about 135, carrying capacity is only about 350 lbs Another inflatable? *This would also mean an engine for it and carrying gas. Ideas? Is there a reason you don't want a tow behind? Hell, a nice peanut pram with a waterproof cover would do what you need from what I can see. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life! Eventually, it has to come aboard when you are crossing any rough water. |
The dinghy problem again
On Jun 13, 1:18*pm, Marc Auslander
wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. *I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. *A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Well, I've sailed several times from St. Marks, FL to St Petersburg, FL, about 140 miles. West palm to West End across the Gulf stream and am ready to cross from marsh Harbor to Spanish Wells (only 50 miles). I expect most of my crossings to be less than 200 miles. Towing the dingy on any of these would have been a pain. I also do not towing a dinghy in thunderstorms. I've decided that my current 28' S2 with 3'10" draft is ideal for the bahamas and anything larger would be too much for me to singlehand. Her moderate size and shoal draft has gotten me many places a larger boat could not go which also contributes to some degree of safety. |
The dinghy problem again
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:02:20 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: Is there a reason you don't want a tow behind? Hell, a nice peanut pram with a waterproof cover would do what you need from what I can see. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life! Eventually, it has to come aboard when you are crossing any rough water. The only thing you are likely to be happy with is one of the roll up models with an inflatable keel and integral floor slats or interlocking aluminum panels like the Avons. They typically have a rigid transom, and some can be used with outboards up to 10 or 15 hp, although you'll probably want something lighter than that. We still have our old Avon roll up and usually carry it as a spare. |
The dinghy problem again
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander
wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. Casady |
The dinghy problem again
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:00 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. In big seas a long tow line is absolutely necessary. Frankly I don't understand your distinction between a tow line and a painter unless you are referring to the painter as the line used for everyday tie up, as opposed to long distance towing. Best solution for a painter is floating line like polypro (miserable as it is for other reasons), or to install some small floats at regular intervals. All this of course is to prevent the painter from getting sucked into the props accidently. |
The dinghy problem again
|
The dinghy problem again
On Jun 13, 11:39*pm, I_am_Tosk
wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:00 -0500, Richard Casady wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. *I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. *A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. In big seas a long tow line is absolutely necessary. *Frankly I don't understand your distinction between a tow line and a painter unless you are referring to the painter as the line used for everyday tie up, as opposed to long distance towing. *Best solution for a painter is floating line like polypro (miserable as it is for other reasons), or to install some small floats at regular intervals. *All this of course is to prevent the painter from getting sucked into the props accidently. Well, for protected water I always made the painter about a foot too short to hit the prop... If I needed more length, I would bend on another line. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Duh! That's the norm to keep a boat's own painter out of it's 'OWN' propellor. When towing you'd have to have the dinghy right up againt the mother boat's stern to avoid that problem and then you create others... such as the dinghy ramming the mother boat. |
The dinghy problem again
|
The dinghy problem again
On Jun 14, 10:42*am, iBoat wrote:
In article 17128384-3f79-4202-bded-978f41fe1d32 @i4g2000yqg.googlegroups.com, says... On Jun 13, 11:39*pm, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:00 -0500, Richard Casady wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. *I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. *A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. In big seas a long tow line is absolutely necessary. *Frankly I don't understand your distinction between a tow line and a painter unless you are referring to the painter as the line used for everyday tie up, as opposed to long distance towing. *Best solution for a painter is floating line like polypro (miserable as it is for other reasons), or to install some small floats at regular intervals. *All this of course is to prevent the painter from getting sucked into the props accidently. Well, for protected water I always made the painter about a foot too short to hit the prop... If I needed more length, I would bend on another line. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Duh! That's the norm to keep a boat's own painter out of it's 'OWN' propellor. When towing you'd have to have the dinghy right up againt the mother boat's stern to avoid that problem and then you create others... such as the dinghy ramming the mother boat. Why aren't you over at Harry's new fantastic group? My experiences towing dinghies have been uniformly bad or comical depending on your perspective. How many inconvenient or dangerous places can you have your dinghy come loose? It is always something bizarre too like a carabiner breaking or the rope breaks because the dinghy fills with water and you are trying to pull a 2000' drag. My old Nautilus dinghy was a true escape artist; no matter how well I'd tie her up for the night, sure enough she'd have gone wandering during the night and be on the other side of the harbor. It was so bad that the first thing I'd do when I got up would be to grab the binocs before I went outside so I could scan the harbor to spot the wayward dinghy. If I tied her too securely, she'd take revenge by petulently ramming the main boat all night keeping us awake. Instead of "Honey, will you go let the dog out", it'd be, "Honey, can you go loosen the dinghy" and sure enough she'd be gone in the morning. My tendency to take my sailboat in very shallow places she shouldn't go stems from chasing down that damned Nautilus dinghy. Once I tried to take advantage of her wandering by filling her with several days of trash hoping she'd wander away with it, no luck. |
The dinghy problem again
On 6/14/11 11:53 AM, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jun 14, 10:42 am, wrote: In article17128384-3f79-4202-bded-978f41fe1d32 @i4g2000yqg.googlegroups.com, says... On Jun 13, 11:39 pm, wrote: In , says... On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:00 -0500, Richard Casady wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. In big seas a long tow line is absolutely necessary. Frankly I don't understand your distinction between a tow line and a painter unless you are referring to the painter as the line used for everyday tie up, as opposed to long distance towing. Best solution for a painter is floating line like polypro (miserable as it is for other reasons), or to install some small floats at regular intervals. All this of course is to prevent the painter from getting sucked into the props accidently. Well, for protected water I always made the painter about a foot too short to hit the prop... If I needed more length, I would bend on another line. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Duh! That's the norm to keep a boat's own painter out of it's 'OWN' propellor. When towing you'd have to have the dinghy right up againt the mother boat's stern to avoid that problem and then you create others... such as the dinghy ramming the mother boat. Why aren't you over at Harry's new fantastic group? My experiences towing dinghies have been uniformly bad or comical depending on your perspective. How many inconvenient or dangerous places can you have your dinghy come loose? It is always something bizarre too like a carabiner breaking or the rope breaks because the dinghy fills with water and you are trying to pull a 2000' drag. My old Nautilus dinghy was a true escape artist; no matter how well I'd tie her up for the night, sure enough she'd have gone wandering during the night and be on the other side of the harbor. It was so bad that the first thing I'd do when I got up would be to grab the binocs before I went outside so I could scan the harbor to spot the wayward dinghy. If I tied her too securely, she'd take revenge by petulently ramming the main boat all night keeping us awake. Instead of "Honey, will you go let the dog out", it'd be, "Honey, can you go loosen the dinghy" and sure enough she'd be gone in the morning. My tendency to take my sailboat in very shallow places she shouldn't go stems from chasing down that damned Nautilus dinghy. Once I tried to take advantage of her wandering by filling her with several days of trash hoping she'd wander away with it, no luck. I never liked towing a dink, but I don't recall one coming loose on its own. I sort of remember the tow line spliced onto an eye ring at the bow on my Dyer dink. -- Want to discuss recreational boating and fishing in a forum where personal insults are not allowed? http://groups.google.com/group/rec-boating-fishing |
The dinghy problem again
On Jun 14, 12:31*pm, Harryk wrote:
On 6/14/11 11:53 AM, Frogwatch wrote: On Jun 14, 10:42 am, *wrote: In article17128384-3f79-4202-bded-978f41fe1d32 @i4g2000yqg.googlegroups.com, says... On Jun 13, 11:39 pm, wrote: In , says... On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:00 -0500, Richard Casady *wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander *wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. *I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. *A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. In big seas a long tow line is absolutely necessary. *Frankly I don't understand your distinction between a tow line and a painter unless you are referring to the painter as the line used for everyday tie up, as opposed to long distance towing. *Best solution for a painter is floating line like polypro (miserable as it is for other reasons), or to install some small floats at regular intervals. *All this of course is to prevent the painter from getting sucked into the props accidently. Well, for protected water I always made the painter about a foot too short to hit the prop... If I needed more length, I would bend on another line. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Duh! That's the norm to keep a boat's own painter out of it's 'OWN' propellor. When towing you'd have to have the dinghy right up againt the mother boat's stern to avoid that problem and then you create others... such as the dinghy ramming the mother boat. Why aren't you over at Harry's new fantastic group? My experiences towing dinghies have been uniformly bad or comical depending on your perspective. *How many inconvenient or dangerous places can you have your dinghy come loose? *It is always something bizarre too like a carabiner breaking or the rope breaks because the dinghy fills with water and you are trying to pull a 2000' drag. *My old Nautilus dinghy was a true escape artist; no matter how well I'd tie her up for the night, sure enough she'd have gone wandering during the night and be on the other side of the harbor. *It was so bad that the first thing I'd do when I got up would be to grab the binocs before I went outside so I could scan the harbor to spot the wayward dinghy. *If I tied her too securely, she'd take revenge by petulently ramming the main boat all night keeping us awake. *Instead of "Honey, will you go let the dog out", it'd be, "Honey, can you go loosen the dinghy" and sure enough she'd be gone in the morning. *My tendency to take my sailboat in very shallow places she shouldn't go stems from chasing down that damned Nautilus dinghy. *Once I tried to take advantage of her wandering by filling her with several days of trash hoping she'd wander away with it, no luck. I never liked towing a dink, but I don't recall one coming loose on its own. I sort of remember the tow line spliced onto an eye ring at the bow on my Dyer dink. -- Want to discuss recreational boating and fishing in a forum where personal insults are not allowed? http://groups.google.com/group/rec-boating-fishing If I ever run out of other things to do I'll make an ultra-lightweight collapsible dinghy that will go into a large duffle. BTW, an 8' dinghy is simply too small for 3 people. |
The dinghy problem again
On Jun 14, 12:41*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jun 14, 12:31*pm, Harryk wrote: On 6/14/11 11:53 AM, Frogwatch wrote: On Jun 14, 10:42 am, *wrote: In article17128384-3f79-4202-bded-978f41fe1d32 @i4g2000yqg.googlegroups.com, says... On Jun 13, 11:39 pm, wrote: In , says... On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:00 -0500, Richard Casady *wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander *wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. *I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. *A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. In big seas a long tow line is absolutely necessary. *Frankly I don't understand your distinction between a tow line and a painter unless you are referring to the painter as the line used for everyday tie up, as opposed to long distance towing. *Best solution for a painter is floating line like polypro (miserable as it is for other reasons), or to install some small floats at regular intervals. *All this of course is to prevent the painter from getting sucked into the props accidently. Well, for protected water I always made the painter about a foot too short to hit the prop... If I needed more length, I would bend on another line. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Duh! That's the norm to keep a boat's own painter out of it's 'OWN' propellor. When towing you'd have to have the dinghy right up againt the mother boat's stern to avoid that problem and then you create others... such as the dinghy ramming the mother boat. Why aren't you over at Harry's new fantastic group? My experiences towing dinghies have been uniformly bad or comical depending on your perspective. *How many inconvenient or dangerous places can you have your dinghy come loose? *It is always something bizarre too like a carabiner breaking or the rope breaks because the dinghy fills with water and you are trying to pull a 2000' drag. *My old Nautilus dinghy was a true escape artist; no matter how well I'd tie her up for the night, sure enough she'd have gone wandering during the night and be on the other side of the harbor. *It was so bad that the first thing I'd do when I got up would be to grab the binocs before I went outside so I could scan the harbor to spot the wayward dinghy. *If I tied her too securely, she'd take revenge by petulently ramming the main boat all night keeping us awake. *Instead of "Honey, will you go let the dog out", it'd be, "Honey, can you go loosen the dinghy" and sure enough she'd be gone in the morning. *My tendency to take my sailboat in very shallow places she shouldn't go stems from chasing down that damned Nautilus dinghy. *Once I tried to take advantage of her wandering by filling her with several days of trash hoping she'd wander away with it, no luck. I never liked towing a dink, but I don't recall one coming loose on its own. I sort of remember the tow line spliced onto an eye ring at the bow on my Dyer dink. -- Want to discuss recreational boating and fishing in a forum where personal insults are not allowed? http://groups.google.com/group/rec-boating-fishing If I ever run out of other things to do I'll make an ultra-lightweight collapsible dinghy that will go into a large duffle. *BTW, an 8' dinghy is simply too small for 3 people. Rowing a good dinghy is fairly pleasant but it becomes a chore when the boat is overcrowded as when an 8' one has two people in it. So a dinghy for rowability carrying two people should be about 9'. |
The dinghy problem again
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:31:12 -0400, Harryk
wrote: On 6/14/11 11:53 AM, Frogwatch wrote: On Jun 14, 10:42 am, wrote: In article17128384-3f79-4202-bded-978f41fe1d32 @i4g2000yqg.googlegroups.com, says... On Jun 13, 11:39 pm, wrote: In , says... On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:00 -0500, Richard Casady wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. In big seas a long tow line is absolutely necessary. Frankly I don't understand your distinction between a tow line and a painter unless you are referring to the painter as the line used for everyday tie up, as opposed to long distance towing. Best solution for a painter is floating line like polypro (miserable as it is for other reasons), or to install some small floats at regular intervals. All this of course is to prevent the painter from getting sucked into the props accidently. Well, for protected water I always made the painter about a foot too short to hit the prop... If I needed more length, I would bend on another line. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Duh! That's the norm to keep a boat's own painter out of it's 'OWN' propellor. When towing you'd have to have the dinghy right up againt the mother boat's stern to avoid that problem and then you create others... such as the dinghy ramming the mother boat. Why aren't you over at Harry's new fantastic group? My experiences towing dinghies have been uniformly bad or comical depending on your perspective. How many inconvenient or dangerous places can you have your dinghy come loose? It is always something bizarre too like a carabiner breaking or the rope breaks because the dinghy fills with water and you are trying to pull a 2000' drag. My old Nautilus dinghy was a true escape artist; no matter how well I'd tie her up for the night, sure enough she'd have gone wandering during the night and be on the other side of the harbor. It was so bad that the first thing I'd do when I got up would be to grab the binocs before I went outside so I could scan the harbor to spot the wayward dinghy. If I tied her too securely, she'd take revenge by petulently ramming the main boat all night keeping us awake. Instead of "Honey, will you go let the dog out", it'd be, "Honey, can you go loosen the dinghy" and sure enough she'd be gone in the morning. My tendency to take my sailboat in very shallow places she shouldn't go stems from chasing down that damned Nautilus dinghy. Once I tried to take advantage of her wandering by filling her with several days of trash hoping she'd wander away with it, no luck. I never liked towing a dink, but I don't recall one coming loose on its own. I sort of remember the tow line spliced onto an eye ring at the bow on my Dyer dink. A painter is not a tow line. Its purpose it to keep the thing attached to the shore. The towline is part of the larger vessle, not the dinghy. Ever see a barge with a big reel of wire on the nose.? They put that on the tug every single time. Casady |
The dinghy problem again
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:41:57 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: If I ever run out of other things to do I'll make an ultra-lightweight collapsible dinghy that will go into a large duffle. BTW, an 8' dinghy is simply too small for 3 people. There was a Brit who owned a duffle bag boat. When he decided to see San Francisco, he sailed it there.l Casady |
The dinghy problem again
In article 6c3c08af-c7e3-45d4-99a9-6bb9c414c5ee@
28g2000yqu.googlegroups.com, says... On Jun 14, 12:31*pm, Harryk wrote: On 6/14/11 11:53 AM, Frogwatch wrote: On Jun 14, 10:42 am, *wrote: In article17128384-3f79-4202-bded-978f41fe1d32 @i4g2000yqg.googlegroups.com, says... On Jun 13, 11:39 pm, wrote: In , says... On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:56:00 -0500, Richard Casady *wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:18:09 -0400, Marc Auslander *wrote: I suspect you're not going to sea, but doing coastal cruising. *I've towed my hard dink through pretty wild coastal weather - and never got into trouble. *A long painter prevents it from riding up your stern. Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. In big seas a long tow line is absolutely necessary. *Frankly I don't understand your distinction between a tow line and a painter unless you are referring to the painter as the line used for everyday tie up, as opposed to long distance towing. *Best solution for a painter is floating line like polypro (miserable as it is for other reasons), or to install some small floats at regular intervals. *All this of course is to prevent the painter from getting sucked into the props accidently. Well, for protected water I always made the painter about a foot too short to hit the prop... If I needed more length, I would bend on another line. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Duh! That's the norm to keep a boat's own painter out of it's 'OWN' propellor. When towing you'd have to have the dinghy right up againt the mother boat's stern to avoid that problem and then you create others... such as the dinghy ramming the mother boat. Why aren't you over at Harry's new fantastic group? My experiences towing dinghies have been uniformly bad or comical depending on your perspective. *How many inconvenient or dangerous places can you have your dinghy come loose? *It is always something bizarre too like a carabiner breaking or the rope breaks because the dinghy fills with water and you are trying to pull a 2000' drag. *My old Nautilus dinghy was a true escape artist; no matter how well I'd tie her up for the night, sure enough she'd have gone wandering during the night and be on the other side of the harbor. *It was so bad that the first thing I'd do when I got up would be to grab the binocs before I went outside so I could scan the harbor to spot the wayward dinghy. *If I tied her too securely, she'd take revenge by petulently ramming the main boat all night keeping us awake. *Instead of "Honey, will you go let the dog out", it'd be, "Honey, can you go loosen the dinghy" and sure enough she'd be gone in the morning. *My tendency to take my sailboat in very shallow places she shouldn't go stems from chasing down that damned Nautilus dinghy. *Once I tried to take advantage of her wandering by filling her with several days of trash hoping she'd wander away with it, no luck. I never liked towing a dink, but I don't recall one coming loose on its own. I sort of remember the tow line spliced onto an eye ring at the bow on my Dyer dink. -- Want to discuss recreational boating and fishing in a forum where personal insults are not allowed? http://groups.google.com/group/rec-boating-fishing If I ever run out of other things to do I'll make an ultra-lightweight collapsible dinghy that will go into a large duffle. BTW, an 8' dinghy is simply too small for 3 people. I have an old kayak that is collapsible. It is made of tubular aluminum and it stretches around a frame that breaks down to two backpacks with the skin in one and frame in the other. It could be done pretty simply I would guess to make a 15 footer by making it all of 8 foot panels for sides, and 6 foot for the thwart, say 5 feet for the transom. The biggest issue is the floor. I might break down and have a roll out type floor that holds the thing together.. Interesting, I don't think it would be all that hard to make, a bit of guesswork and figuring involved but it could be done easily with some thought I would guess... -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life! |
The dinghy problem again
|
The dinghy problem again
|
The dinghy problem again
Richard Casady writes:
Long painters are a mistake if you have a motor. In that case the painter should stop short of the propeller. You can use a long tow line with it. Casady Polypropylene solves the prop problem. You need to replace it every few years when the sun makes it unpleasant. |
The dinghy problem again
|
The dinghy problem again
|
The dinghy problem again
|
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:58 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com