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Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
This author believes canoe & kayak manufacturers are liable for the
"murder" of 1,000 paddlers because they don't install an "emergeny life raft" on their crafts. What a bunch of BULL****! I can just see a slew of class action lawsuits being filed and this guy being the plaintiff attorney's "expert" witness against canoe & kayak manufacturers, paddling schools, dealers, instructors, etc. Just like those overweight plaintiffs who are trying to sue or "blackmail" fast food companies to compensate them for making them fat. I sometimes have to shake my head and scream at all this nonsense in the USA about blaming someone else for their own stupidty. I read somewhere that in Mexico, when you step in a hole, they call you "stupid." In the USA, they call you a "millionaire." The personal injury scam fueled by crooked attorneys in this country has just run amuck. Whatever you do, don't buy this guy's book. ************************************ Canoe and Kayak Scam Kills 1,000 Americans -- New Book Details Ineffective Canoe and Kayak Safety Measures Perpetuated by Manufacturers PENETANGUISHENE, Ontario, Canada, July 29, 2003 (PRIMEZONE) -- The waters of life are filled with financial sharks. The public is generally protected against commercial scandals, however, author Tim Ingram feels there is a very important scandal occurring that is going unnoticed in the rushing waters filled with Enron scandals. In his book, Canoe and Kayak Scam Kills 1000 Americans: US Coast Guard Studies Device to Save Victims (now available through 1stBooks), Ingram discusses the inefficient safety measures and scam rescue training that has cost many people their lives. "This book specifically documents the murder of U.S. citizens in canoes and kayaks through an instruction scam to make money and kill innocent victims in the water. This book documents the method to lure victims into cool waters from which they cannot escape," Ingram states. This book is an expose and a postulation of an easy remedy to right the situation. According to Ingram, nearly 1,000 people have died in the United States from canoe and kayak accidents. Most of the victims died in the water from hypothermia because they could not get back in the canoe or kayak. "Canoes and kayaks are the deadliest boats in the world. They are extremely vulnerable to capsize and flooding," Ingram says. The fault, he notes, lies with the manufacturers. He feels they should have an emergency life raft attached to the kayak or canoe. He details how this device is easily and economically possible. Instead, he says, companies offer a cornucopia of rescue classes, which he finds ineffective and difficult. Many people are unable to perform these rolls, he notes, and remain in the water until they succumb to hypothermia, even in warm weather and wearing a lifejacket or other floatation device. "This book documents the selling of canoes and kayaks with reckless disregard for human life. Canoe and kayak 'safety' is Enron-style fraud, sold to make money for instructors and to sell all sorts of paraphernalia that increase the risk of death. Enron did not kill anyone," Ingram states. Ingram was a YMCA camp counselor and canoeing instructor nearly 40 years ago and owned numerous boats, canoes and kayaks. He has a number of U.S. patents for devices that effectively overcome hypothermia. Canoe and Kayak Scam Kills 1000 Americans is his first book. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Wow, its real:
http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/030729/43212.html FWIW, we know a lot of kayak tours (etc.) take a somewhat optimistic attitude. It's pretty scary (for instance) to see kayak tour ads that show somebody paddling next to alaskan ice without even a sprayskirt. On that subject, most people would suggest a drysuit to battle that hypothermia, rather than a liferaft for your sea kayak. A lot could probably be said for kayak safety without a) "scam" hyperbole and b) translating into any one patented solution. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
"Bobo" wrote in message ... This author believes ---big snip--- Scam Kills 1000 Americans is his first book. Oh my God. Please, no. No, no, nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Bobo wrote: big snip I take it that this is your introduction to Timmy the Sponson Boy. He's been spewing the same crap for years in an effort to scare people into buying his worthless "inventions". Apparently, he's "invented" a life raft now. He's a lyar, a complete psycho and beneath contempt. Fortunately, he's also nothing but a windbag and no one takes him seriously. Thanks a lot for advertising his book for him here. You've done him a great service. Then again, perhaps that was your intent? -- Regards Brian |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Brian Nystrom writes:
Bobo wrote: big snip I take it that this is your introduction to Timmy the Sponson Boy. He's been spewing the same crap for years in an effort to scare people into buying his worthless "inventions". Apparently, he's "invented" a life raft now. He's a lyar, a complete psycho and beneath contempt. Fortunately, he's also nothing but a windbag and no one takes him seriously. Thanks a lot for advertising his book for him here. You've done him a great service. Then again, perhaps that was your intent? Probably not; it sounded like the standard tone of amazed outrage that is the usual reaction to Sponsonboy's nonsense. For any other Sponsonboy newbies, you are encouraged to do a little research -- just google "sponson" in this newsgroup over a period of several years -- before weighing in on this issue. It's all been said before. Anyone happen to know if his "publisher" is the local Staples? -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Looks like Timmy's back.
|
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Bobo wrote:
This author believes canoe & kayak manufacturers are liable for the "murder" of 1,000 paddlers because they don't install an "emergeny life raft" on their crafts. WOW! Why haven't we heard about this in RBP? -- //-Walt // Seerch-a zee veb: // http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=xx-bork (Yes, I'm being sarcastic, in case you didn't know...) |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
|
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
"Rick" writes:
Sadly, however, this is the type of publishing crap that the media will tend to grab and run with. Soon, you will be hearing the media print and say that, "the kayaker was not using sponsons," the same way we hear, "the cyclist was not wearing a helmet." I doubt this very much. Biking is a popular sport, one that most people do at some point in their lives. In contrast, most members of the media and the general public barely know what a kayak is, much less a sponson. To think that general awareness of sponsons could ever approach that of bike helmets is, well, bordering on the absurd. I will be beyond astonished if this book has a real publisher. Commercial publishers are interested in making money, and even if an editor were to believe every word Sponsonboy said, their business instincts would kick in before they spent any hard cash on such a project. Specifically, they'd probably spend, oh, at least a couple of minutes researching these "thousands of deaths", which haven't exactly been making front-page news. This research would quickly reveal two facts: 1)that the phrase "thousands of deaths" is an exaggeration of at least an order of magnitude, even if you added up all whitewater deaths over several decades, and 2)that the lack of sponsons had fsck-all to do with any of 'em. Nope, a real publisher won't spend a dime on this turkey. OTOH, there are "publishers" who will be more than happy to take your money to "publish" your unacknowledged and unappreciated work of genuine original genius. So you can spend a chunk of our own change and end up with a stack of _real published books_, which you can then try and sell to anyone who gives a damn, or give away to your friends, or use to start a fire in your woodstove, or whatever. It all reminds me of that bit in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" when Hunter S. Thompson becomes alarmed at the idea that any lunatic with $3.98 to spend can have his/her image appear on a giant display over downtown Las Vegas, with a very large sound system broadcasting his/her message to the world. There are a lot of messages out there, though, so in considering which ones are worthy of your time, it's good to look at whether the access to the medium was legitimately earned through the merit of the message, or simply bought. -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Bobo
You obviously haven't thought this matter through carefully. As a 100 day/year kayaker for 10 years over N CA and OR waters, I can assure you that I always had an emergency life raft mounted just behind the bow grab loop and a member of the Plaintiff's Bar (the lowest form of lawyer) bound carefully with a bow knot just ahead of the stern grab loop. When a rafter threatened to run me over, I turned my stern to the raft and my lawyer would serve a complaint on the rafting company. My standard equipage also helped to secure equal surfing rights on attractive waves. As platoons (nay, divisions) of lawyers depart with their diplomas from law schools over our nation each year, only the kayakers can successfully prevent this wave of flotsam from swamping our society. A well chosen delayed roll-up from a nice deep hole permits one to dispose neatly of the attached lawyer with a light pull on the bow knot lawyer binding. I am sure that any kayak manufacturer can easily attach with duct tape a small life raft to each kayak sold. With a attached disclaimer of liability if the owner of the boat detaches the raft. See any member of the Plaintiff's Bar. Prudent kayakers will, of course, padlock their emergency life rafts to their boat, so they cannot be stolen. Best wishes on the water, John Adams. "Bobo" wrote in message ... This author believes canoe & kayak manufacturers are liable for the "murder" of 1,000 paddlers because they don't install an "emergeny life raft" on their crafts. What a bunch of BULL****! I can just see a slew of class action lawsuits being filed and this guy being the plaintiff attorney's "expert" witness against canoe & kayak manufacturers, paddling schools, dealers, instructors, etc. Just like those overweight plaintiffs who are trying to sue or "blackmail" fast food companies to compensate them for making them fat. I sometimes have to shake my head and scream at all this nonsense in the USA about blaming someone else for their own stupidty. I read somewhere that in Mexico, when you step in a hole, they call you "stupid." In the USA, they call you a "millionaire." The personal injury scam fueled by crooked attorneys in this country has just run amuck. Whatever you do, don't buy this guy's book. ************************************ Canoe and Kayak Scam Kills 1,000 Americans -- New Book Details Ineffective Canoe and Kayak Safety Measures Perpetuated by Manufacturers PENETANGUISHENE, Ontario, Canada, July 29, 2003 (PRIMEZONE) -- The waters of life are filled with financial sharks. The public is generally protected against commercial scandals, however, author Tim Ingram feels there is a very important scandal occurring that is going unnoticed in the rushing waters filled with Enron scandals. In his book, Canoe and Kayak Scam Kills 1000 Americans: US Coast Guard Studies Device to Save Victims (now available through 1stBooks), Ingram discusses the inefficient safety measures and scam rescue training that has cost many people their lives. "This book specifically documents the murder of U.S. citizens in canoes and kayaks through an instruction scam to make money and kill innocent victims in the water. This book documents the method to lure victims into cool waters from which they cannot escape," Ingram states. This book is an expose and a postulation of an easy remedy to right the situation. According to Ingram, nearly 1,000 people have died in the United States from canoe and kayak accidents. Most of the victims died in the water from hypothermia because they could not get back in the canoe or kayak. "Canoes and kayaks are the deadliest boats in the world. They are extremely vulnerable to capsize and flooding," Ingram says. The fault, he notes, lies with the manufacturers. He feels they should have an emergency life raft attached to the kayak or canoe. He details how this device is easily and economically possible. Instead, he says, companies offer a cornucopia of rescue classes, which he finds ineffective and difficult. Many people are unable to perform these rolls, he notes, and remain in the water until they succumb to hypothermia, even in warm weather and wearing a lifejacket or other floatation device. "This book documents the selling of canoes and kayaks with reckless disregard for human life. Canoe and kayak 'safety' is Enron-style fraud, sold to make money for instructors and to sell all sorts of paraphernalia that increase the risk of death. Enron did not kill anyone," Ingram states. Ingram was a YMCA camp counselor and canoeing instructor nearly 40 years ago and owned numerous boats, canoes and kayaks. He has a number of U.S. patents for devices that effectively overcome hypothermia. Canoe and Kayak Scam Kills 1000 Americans is his first book. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Gee, Bobo, don't Timmy got to make a livin', too?
By calling him a lyar (liar is the preferred spelling in English), a complete psycho, and beneath contempt is likely to cause your fellow boaters to confuse him with a typical lawyer. Or advertising copywriter. Not to mention used car salesmen. I'm sure you wouldn't class such a sterling fellow as Timmy with those other guys. John Adams "Brian Nystrom" wrote in message ... Bobo wrote: big snip I take it that this is your introduction to Timmy the Sponson Boy. He's been spewing the same crap for years in an effort to scare people into buying his worthless "inventions". Apparently, he's "invented" a life raft now. He's a lyar, a complete psycho and beneath contempt. Fortunately, he's also nothing but a windbag and no one takes him seriously. Thanks a lot for advertising his book for him here. You've done him a great service. Then again, perhaps that was your intent? -- Regards Brian |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
On 12-Aug-2003, Marsh Jones wrote:
I've never seen a kayak with sponsons successfully complete an eskimo roll, How many attempts have you seen? Timmy's bags aren't that great and the increase in stabiilty isn't spectacular (in spite of photos showing folks standing up in their kayaks with them). I tested them years ago and tried rolling with them as well. I used a rented Solstice GTS and found the difference in rolling with/without was similar to the difference in rolling the same kayak loaded/unloaded. Mike |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
John Q Adams wrote: Gee, Bobo, don't Timmy got to make a livin', too? By calling him a lyar (liar is the preferred spelling in English), a complete psycho, and beneath contempt is likely to cause your fellow boaters to confuse him with a typical lawyer. Or advertising copywriter. Not to mention used car salesmen. I'm sure you wouldn't class such a sterling fellow as Timmy with those other guys. Of course not, as that would be an insult to lawyers, copywriters and used car salesmen everywhere! Timmy would have to claw his way up the food chain a few rungs to reach their level. ;-) -- Regards Brian |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Michael Daly wrote:
On 12-Aug-2003, Marsh Jones wrote: I've never seen a kayak with sponsons successfully complete an eskimo roll, How many attempts have you seen? Timmy's bags aren't that great and the increase in stabiilty isn't spectacular (in spite of photos showing folks standing up in their kayaks with them). I tested them years ago and tried rolling with them as well. I used a rented Solstice GTS and found the difference in rolling with/without was similar to the difference in rolling the same kayak loaded/unloaded. Mike OK, smart guy:-) I bit on the flame bait about bike helmets and probably overstated the case. I'm still awed by folks that cool off by a quick roll anyway. I'll stand on the point that learning to paddle is probably cheaper than the product, and definitely better in the long run. Since you've tried them, and *I've* only seen them and decided they were something I didn't need to try, how did they work in a side wave? That was my big fear - like taking a flat bottomed Grumman canoe out in a squall. High initial stability, loss of secondary stability. Marsh |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
On 13-Aug-2003, Marsh Jones wrote:
Since you've tried them, and *I've* only seen them and decided they were something I didn't need to try, how did they work in a side wave? That was my big fear - like taking a flat bottomed Grumman canoe out in a squall. High initial stability, loss of secondary stability. Increasing the stability on flat water means reducing the stability in waves. Broaching in a breaking wave with sponsons means an almost certain dump. Timmy, of course, refuses to acknowledge this. Mike |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
....stuff deleted
I bit on the flame bait about bike helmets and probably overstated the case. I'm still awed by folks that cool off by a quick roll anyway. I'll stand on the point that learning to paddle is probably cheaper than the product, and definitely better in the long run. Since you've tried them, and *I've* only seen them and decided they were something I didn't need to try, how did they work in a side wave? That was my big fear - like taking a flat bottomed Grumman canoe out in a squall. High initial stability, loss of secondary stability. Marsh, While you may feel that the bike helmet comment was flame bait, I lived through that whole evolution from "bike helmets are useless" to "bike helmets are mandatory" and seen how it works. When I was a kid, nobody, absolutely nobody, wore helmets. The number of bike deaths/year was about 500 in the US (in a population of about 150 million - I guess that dates me, eh?). The number of adults who cycled back then was, essentially, zero. The US population has doubled, the number of cyclists is considerably greater, and the death rate/cyclist is essentially unchanged. The same people (children) die each year, not because they do or don't have helmets, but because no helmet will protect them in a high speed crash with a motor vehicle. There is an economic safety infrastructure that has grown over a piece of equipment that, like the sponson, has limited utility and may actually induce as many severe injuries as it protects (read evidence on rotational head injuries induced by the helmet increasing the circumference of the head and providing greater torque on the neck). This is my concern. I've seen it happen in one sport that had very light participation (especially amongst adults), and it could happen in another. The analogy is a solid one. We've already had a coast guard representative ask us for comments on sponsons. Tim has also written his self-serving diatribe, which, much as we like to deny it, will get some media play (especially as he won't shut up). Someone with more savvy and people skills could well take the ball and run with it. Unlike PFD's, which actually do provide some utility, sponsons are essentially useless. Anyone who goes out in conditions where sponsons might be deployed has already make the critical judgement error that it was "safe" to go out on the water in those conditions (probably because they had sponsons). Equpiment is no substitute for skills and judgement. We all know this, but the media and those who have economic motives don't want the lawmakers (few of which cycle) to realize this. It isn't news and it isn't profitable. Rick |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Marsh, While you may feel that the bike helmet comment was flame bait, I lived through that whole evolution from "bike helmets are useless" to "bike helmets are mandatory" and seen how it works. When I was a kid, nobody, absolutely nobody, wore helmets. The number of bike deaths/year was about 500 in the US (in a population of about 150 million - I guess that dates me, eh?). The number of adults who cycled back then was, essentially, zero. The US population has doubled, the number of cyclists is considerably greater, and the death rate/cyclist is essentially unchanged. The same people (children) die each year, not because they do or don't have helmets, but because no helmet will protect them in a high speed crash with a motor vehicle. I always like the statistics from the 1st world war. When the allies introduced helmets for the soldiers in the trenches the number of head injuries went up! Previously there were more deaths from head wounds and so these were not injuries. Of no particular relevance I know but what the hell! Snipped Rick -- Dave Manby Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Tim Ingram wrote:
squall. High initial stability, loss of secondary stability. Marsh You might as well get this right: http://www.1stBooks.com/bookview/16818 (paste in browser address bar if necessary) As you will read in the described contents of the book: Sponsons are not intentended for WW. WW is a special murder technique on its' own. Most people do not die on WW. They die of hypothermia, wearing a PFD or not. The rate of US canoe and kayak deaths per exposure hour far exceeds the worst vehicle scandals (Ford Firestone 15+), the fatalities in 19th century mining in Great Britain 1000+, and the current fatalities in Iraq per exposure hour, in harm's way. You have participated in the largest experiment in social psychology since the Yale/Milgram experiments of the 60's. Goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners", describes a similar group behavior to RBP, such as the SS, basing execution on inferior "skills or other qualities". This was a best-seller in Germany, as well as a 1994 Harvard dissertation. You have recently contributed to the murder of 2, eleven year old Girl Guides. Tim ....rising to bait... ...can't help myself... ...CTRLAlt... ... oh, what the hell: Since I don't do whitewater, but do a *lot* of fla****er canoeing and kayaking, particularly in cooler climes, I'll call you on this one. Not sponsons, dry suits, Mustang survival suits or anything else will prevent underequipped, ill prepared, unskilled people from venturing out in conditions above their ability. Any device that provides this sense of false security has about the same utility as an out of date condom. Just a simple stat, taken from: http://198.66.37.82/issues/articles/DrowningFacts.html "According to the United States Coast Guard, deaths associated with recreational boating numbered 734 in the United States and its territories. Drowning accounted for 517 of the deaths. The Coast Guard estimates that about 450 boaters who drowned could have been saved by wearing a life jacket. Alcohol was reported to be involved in 191 (26%) of the deaths." This covers all recreational boaters in the US, not just canoes and kayaks for the year 1998. Most boating deaths reported in Minnesota involve some combination of night, storm, no PFD, and alcohol, not canoes or kayaks. In the past year, I cannot recall a single death related to a kayak or canoe in this state,which has more registered canoes and kayaks per 100,000 residents than any other. We have more people die every year on snowmobiles than in all boats. (maybe a new market - sponsons for snowmobiles) As you have directly, and without warrant, called me an accessory to murder, I'll take the unprecedented action for me and suggest you take your sponsons, remove the arms so they don't get in the way, and put them where the sun don't shine. Marsh |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
"Lefty" ) writes:
On that subject, most people would suggest a drysuit to battle that hypothermia, rather than a liferaft for your sea kayak. how about a sea kayak for your liferaft? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Marsh Jones wrote in message news:acy_a.94762$cF.29148@rwcrnsc53...
Tim Ingram wrote: squall. High initial stability, loss of secondary stability. Marsh You might as well get this right: http://www.1stBooks.com/bookview/16818 (paste in browser address bar if necessary) As you will read in the described contents of the book: Sponsons are not intentended for WW. WW is a special murder technique on its' own. Most people do not die on WW. They die of hypothermia, wearing a PFD or not. The rate of US canoe and kayak deaths per exposure hour far exceeds the worst vehicle scandals (Ford Firestone 15+), the fatalities in 19th century mining in Great Britain 1000+, and the current fatalities in Iraq per exposure hour, in harm's way. You have participated in the largest experiment in social psychology since the Yale/Milgram experiments of the 60's. Goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners", describes a similar group behavior to RBP, such as the SS, basing execution on inferior "skills or other qualities". This was a best-seller in Germany, as well as a 1994 Harvard dissertation. You have recently contributed to the murder of 2, eleven year old Girl Guides. Tim ...rising to bait... ...can't help myself... ...CTRLAlt... ... oh, what the hell: Since I don't do whitewater, but do a *lot* of fla****er canoeing and kayaking, particularly in cooler climes, I'll call you on this one. Not sponsons, dry suits, Mustang survival suits or anything else will prevent underequipped, ill prepared, unskilled people from venturing out in conditions above their ability. Any device that provides this sense of false security has about the same utility as an out of date condom. Just a simple stat, taken from: http://198.66.37.82/issues/articles/DrowningFacts.html "According to the United States Coast Guard, deaths associated with recreational boating numbered 734 in the United States and its territories. Drowning accounted for 517 of the deaths. The Coast Guard estimates that about 450 boaters who drowned could have been saved by wearing a life jacket. Alcohol was reported to be involved in 191 (26%) of the deaths." This covers all recreational boaters in the US, not just canoes and kayaks for the year 1998. Most boating deaths reported in Minnesota involve some combination of night, storm, no PFD, and alcohol, not canoes or kayaks. In the past year, I cannot recall a single death related to a kayak or canoe in this state,which has more registered canoes and kayaks per 100,000 residents than any other. We have more people die every year on snowmobiles than in all boats. (maybe a new market - sponsons for snowmobiles) As you have directly, and without warrant, called me an accessory to murder, I'll take the unprecedented action for me and suggest you take your sponsons, remove the arms so they don't get in the way, and put them where the sun don't shine. Marsh Stupidly Marsh, You do not understand rate of death. Canoes and Kayaks have the highest rate of death in US history. This is due to the deliberate behavior of a tiny industry (about 100,000 new boats a year total!) deliberately organized to murder as many people as possible. Stupid Marsh. Good thing it is such a tiny industry or we could have millions of dead citizens. But yours is only a tiny death cult. Stupid, mean and deadly to kids, or any one else in a kayak or canoe. Tim |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Tim Ingram wrote: Stupid, mean and deadly to kids, or any one else in a kayak or canoe. Hmmm, that sounds exactly like sponsons, to me. False security designed around false premises and a false conspiracy theory. Since you're so enamored of "statistics", you should read the ACA report "Critical Judgement". Then again, you wouldn't want to be confused by facts, would you? Wait, let me guess, it's all just "industry propaganda" right? Part of the vast kayak conspiracy that only YOU have the power and insight to see. Wow, you really are special, Tim! You need to go back on your meds. And please, wipe that foam off your mouth. BTW, I really like the rant about the SS. I'll save that one so I can show it to people who mistakenly give your ranting any credence. It will show them just how unstable and delusional you really are. -- Regards Brian |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
....stuff deleted
...and the number of kayakers is still tiny. Not the same situation at all. Mary, Small population means little political clout. This is just the type of potential group for which pooly considered law is enacted. You must realize that the helmet laws were enacted simply because those who cycled (age range 5-16) had zero political power. No vote, no risk of enacting laws that offend. Because kayaking is growing more popular (mostly fla****er), there are a greater number of low skilled people on the water and an increased risk of death to those individuals. Since the numbers of boaters is still pretty low, lawmakers acting now can enact dumb laws that won't hurt them at the polls. Rick |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
"Rick" writes:
...stuff deleted ...and the number of kayakers is still tiny. Not the same situation at all. Mary, Small population means little political clout. This is just the type of potential group for which pooly considered law is enacted. Well, no, it really isn't. You see, in order to enact legislation of any kind, SOMEone has to give a damn about it. SOMEone has to want to do it. So can you tell me who, exactly, wants to nail sponsons on the boats of all paddlers? Sponsonboy doesn't count; he doesn't got a vote in the USofA. You must realize that the helmet laws were enacted simply because those who cycled (age range 5-16) had zero political power. And those many kids who cycled had these appendages known as parents who cared about what might happen if their child's head hit the pavement. IOW, there were a great many concerned people -- many millions -- and, rightly or wrongly, they saw helmet laws as a solution. No vote, no risk of enacting laws that offend. Because kayaking is growing more popular (mostly fla****er), there are a greater number of low skilled people on the water and an increased risk of death to those individuals. Since the numbers of boaters is still pretty low, lawmakers acting now can enact dumb laws that won't hurt them at the polls. Lawmakers don't enact laws on issues that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY cares enough to agitate them about. A lot of people cared about bike accidents; very few people care about kayak accidents, and with the exception of one lone nutter, NONE of them think sponsons is a solution that would merit anything even faintly scented of a legal requirement. No lawmaker is going to spent a nanosecond of effort on something like this when they can instead spend time on legislation that someone cares about, and for which their efforts will somehow be rewarded. QED. -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::: Mary Malmros Some days you're the windshield, Other days you're the bug. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
If you need to strap plastic bags to the hull to make a boat safe, you
have either chosen the wrong boat for the job, or the design sucks! If you need a stable flat water boat that kids can stand in, buy or build one... don't try to make one out of something that is not. The hardest thing about building boats for folks is telling them that that beautiful hull they saw last week on TV or in a mag won't work for the type of boating they intend. Boats are always a compromise but if you choose the right boat, and learn how to use it, you will be as safe as can be expected when fooling with nature. Scotty aka Effin'A... and no, I do not spellcheck ng stuff... sorry. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Cogent, as always, Mary. And yet... And yet... he has already managed
to get some office of the USCG to task one of its contractors with looking into the question of (A) whether sponsons can indeed be lifesavers, and (B) if so, whether they should be required equipment. And the contractor assigned the task to a young woman with no paddling expertise, hence no sound judgment in the matter, nor even enough knowlege to ask the right questions (of Timmy OR of the paddling community). I'd like to trust the good judgment of a USCG faced with Ingram's incoherent ravings, but... -Richard Mary Malmros wrote in message ... "Rick" writes: ...stuff deleted ...and the number of kayakers is still tiny. Not the same situation at all. Mary, Small population means little political clout. This is just the type of potential group for which pooly considered law is enacted. Well, no, it really isn't. You see, in order to enact legislation of any kind, SOMEone has to give a damn about it. SOMEone has to want to do it. So can you tell me who, exactly, wants to nail sponsons on the boats of all paddlers? Sponsonboy doesn't count; he doesn't got a vote in the USofA. You must realize that the helmet laws were enacted simply because those who cycled (age range 5-16) had zero political power. And those many kids who cycled had these appendages known as parents who cared about what might happen if their child's head hit the pavement. IOW, there were a great many concerned people -- many millions -- and, rightly or wrongly, they saw helmet laws as a solution. No vote, no risk of enacting laws that offend. Because kayaking is growing more popular (mostly fla****er), there are a greater number of low skilled people on the water and an increased risk of death to those individuals. Since the numbers of boaters is still pretty low, lawmakers acting now can enact dumb laws that won't hurt them at the polls. Lawmakers don't enact laws on issues that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY cares enough to agitate them about. A lot of people cared about bike accidents; very few people care about kayak accidents, and with the exception of one lone nutter, NONE of them think sponsons is a solution that would merit anything even faintly scented of a legal requirement. No lawmaker is going to spent a nanosecond of effort on something like this when they can instead spend time on legislation that someone cares about, and for which their efforts will somehow be rewarded. QED. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Hey, Scott! Glad to see that you came back!
-- -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471 Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll. rhople[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077 OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters. ================================================== ==================== (Backyard Renegade) wrote in message . com... If you need to strap plastic bags to the hull to make a boat safe, you have either chosen the wrong boat for the job, or the design sucks! If you need a stable flat water boat that kids can stand in, buy or build one... don't try to make one out of something that is not. The hardest thing about building boats for folks is telling them that that beautiful hull they saw last week on TV or in a mag won't work for the type of boating they intend. Boats are always a compromise but if you choose the right boat, and learn how to use it, you will be as safe as can be expected when fooling with nature. Scotty aka Effin'A... and no, I do not spellcheck ng stuff... sorry. |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Mary Malmros wrote in message ...
"Rick" writes: ...stuff deleted ...and the number of kayakers is still tiny. Not the same situation at all. Mary, Small population means little political clout. This is just the type of potential group for which pooly considered law is enacted. Well, no, it really isn't. You see, in order to enact legislation of any kind, SOMEone has to give a damn about it. SOMEone has to want to do it. So can you tell me who, exactly, wants to nail sponsons on the boats of all paddlers? Sponsonboy doesn't count; he doesn't got a vote in the USofA. You must realize that the helmet laws were enacted simply because those who cycled (age range 5-16) had zero political power. And those many kids who cycled had these appendages known as parents who cared about what might happen if their child's head hit the pavement. IOW, there were a great many concerned people -- many millions -- and, rightly or wrongly, they saw helmet laws as a solution. No vote, no risk of enacting laws that offend. Because kayaking is growing more popular (mostly fla****er), there are a greater number of low skilled people on the water and an increased risk of death to those individuals. Since the numbers of boaters is still pretty low, lawmakers acting now can enact dumb laws that won't hurt them at the polls. Lawmakers don't enact laws on issues that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY cares enough to agitate them about. A lot of people cared about bike accidents; very few people care about kayak accidents, and with the exception of one lone nutter, NONE of them think sponsons is a solution that would merit anything even faintly scented of a legal requirement. No lawmaker is going to spent a nanosecond of effort on something like this when they can instead spend time on legislation that someone cares about, and for which their efforts will somehow be rewarded. QED. It is a pleasure to respond to Malmrose here since she has always represented a peculiar perspective regarding murder in canoes and kayaks, in her posts on RBP. It is wonderful to see her attempt to justify here the murder of girl guides, scouts and anyone else who is lured to death in a kayak or canoe. (They aren't politically important enough!) Nice one. The Washington snipers also murdered politically unpowerful people near the Capital. And they only murdered a tenth of all US canoe and kayak murders. But they sure ****ed off a lot of decent people in America. And if you read the description of the contents of my book, you will see that the US Congress and the USCG are plenty ****ed off with all of you: http://www.1stBooks.com/bookview/16818 (Just paste into browser address bars.) Nystrom and a few others, also in these recent posts, display everything I have said regarding organized murder by the ACA and RBP posters. This evidence is so powerful regarding your reckless disregard for human life, that most citizens would be inclined to ask: "How damn crazy are these murdering morons?" Well, the Oklahoma City bombing opened the story of many deadly cults now operating in America. You just happen to have kayaks and canoes as modus operandi, making them as deadly as possible, to kill as many as possible. (An amazingly high death rate, considering how tiny an industry. But water is actually one of the easiest ways to kill people.) And obviously in these posts, we are seeing a self-reinforcing cult that actually congratulates itself on getting away with the murders of the "politically unpowerful" (as with Malmos). Well, if you check the laws of the US (I am a US citizen, born in Pennsylvania), you will find that organized and deliberate murder, or hurting any US citizens deliberately, will result in the strongest sanctions. The US Coast Guard has the power to barbeque your cult fast, and they are not pleased with the bait and switch scam perpetrated upon them by the ACA for ten years. The evidence of this book is overwhelming. But my next book will be even more overwhelming in examining your posts as examples of intent toward deliberate, cold-blooded murders of citizens, right in the USA. You are so stupid, in your cult thinking to expose yourself like Nazis, or the KKK (who were more clandestine). But please keep it up. Goldhagen's "Hitlers Willing Executioners" had nothing to study like this. An actual murder cult on the internet! Incidentally, withdrawing your posts will do no good. I have them in archives. You are sick killers. Tim |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
"Tim Ingram" wrote in message om... Mary Malmros wrote in message ... snippage of absolutely idiotic spew... ...that most citizens would be inclined to ask: "How damn crazy are these murdering morons?" ================= most sane people would ask who's the bozo that thinks that those who go boating are murderers... you lose, timmy, just on your specious use of language... snippage of rest of hate filled rantings.... |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Tim Ingram wrote: And if you read the description of the contents of my book, you will see that the US Congress and the USCG are plenty ****ed off with all of you: What makes you think that any of us are going to waste our money on a book that's full of nothing but lies and the ramblings of an obvious lunatic. You couldn't care less about safety in kayaks or anywhere else; all you care about is selling airbags and books to line your pocket. You are the most depraved individual I've ever encountered. But my next book will be even more overwhelming in examining your posts as examples of intent toward deliberate, cold-blooded murders of citizens, right in the USA. Oh, good, please do publish our posts and your character assassination attempts. Not only will it serve to show anyone who reads it who the resonable people in this debate are, but it will also provide perfect evidence to sue you into oblivion for defamation. Incidentally, withdrawing your posts will do no good. I have them in archives. You are sick killers. There's nothing I've said in this debate that I would even think of withdrawing. I've also saved a several gems from you and it's time to start sending them to the people you do business with. They've put up with your insane attacks on the industry to this point, but you've pushed this nonsense too far. I hope you enjoy your forthcoming bankruptcy, Tim. -- Regards Brian |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Folks, please stop responding to Tim's postings. He will not stop and cannot
be reasoned with. He started out years ago with only slightly off balance postings but seems to be becoming more unbalanced. Please quit feeding his delusional world. Rick |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
|
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
"Tim Ingram" wrote in message om... "rick etter" wrote in message ... "Tim Ingram" wrote in message om... Mary Malmros wrote in message ... snippage of absolutely idiotic spew... ...that most citizens would be inclined to ask: "How damn crazy are these murdering morons?" ================= most sane people would ask who's the bozo that thinks that those who go boating are murderers... you lose, timmy, just on your specious use of language... Mr. Etter displays all of the arrogance of a Gestapo officer who has just garotted Jewish children. ==================== ROTFLMAO!!!! What a hoot!! if anyone here is subscribing to the nazi propaganda machine therories, it's you loser. tell big enough lies, degrade your opponents so that they become less than human to you, and then eliminate them. You doing a fine job there stupid of alienating people. Keep up the good work! Afterall, laughter is the best medicine, and with you around, we'll all live to paddle until we're 100+. Or a KKKlansman. Or any other group that bases its' activities on the deliberate harm and murder of any other group of people. In this case, RBP (and the American Canoe Association) has targetted anyone using a canoe or kayak: For the pleasure of killing, taking money for fraudulent intruction, or feeling "superior" to other citizens. ================ Hey, stupid. In case you haven't noticed, we ARE the ones paddleing canoes and kayaks! It is *you* that is targeting people. What a dolt!!! snippage of rest of hate filled rantings.... ditto again, timmy boy hate... |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message om... (RickPB) wrote in message ... Folks, please stop responding to Tim's postings. He will not stop and cannot be reasoned with. He started out years ago with only slightly off balance postings but seems to be becoming more unbalanced. Please quit feeding his delusional world. Rick I dunno, Rick; if we can push him completely over the edge there will be no more US Taxpayer dollars spent by the USCG, investigating his delusions. ==================== Doesn't look like he has far to go to get to that edge, judging by this last spew of hatred... |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
And if you read the description of the contents of my book, you will
see that the US Congress and the USCG are plenty ****ed off with all of you: Then my life ISN'T a waste after all! BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! --Burf |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Tim Ingram wrote: a bunch of the usual crap snipped Tim, you can keep repeating your diatribe as often as you want, but that will never make it true. They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result. You're clear proof of that. -- Regards Brian |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Hi Brian,
Uh, and have you considered how your responding to Tim might be viewed through the lens of your definition below? ;-) Chuck in article , Brian Nystrom at wrote on 8/23/03 8:03 AM: They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result. You're clear proof of that. -- Regards Brian |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
Brian Nystrom wrote in
: Tim Ingram wrote: a bunch of the usual crap snipped Tim, you can keep repeating your diatribe as often as you want, but that will never make it true. They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result. You're clear proof of that. Y'know...I keep imagining him as Timmy from "South Park"...only ever able to say one thing, over and over..."Timmah!" -- J W *sig has expired. Go to alt.hacker and ask for a crack for it.* |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
"Dave Van" wrote in news:S662b.1677$Jh2.1160
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net: Somebody needs to pay this guy a visit. Here you go: Tim Ingram 231 Gordon Dr Penetanguishene ON L9M1Y2 Canada 705-549-3722 Pulled it from Canada411.com David "Tim Ingram" wrote in message m... Indeed Nystrom is the most despicable kind of murderer, Crazy or not. First of all, he likes to see the murder of little Girl Guides. Boy Scouts work for him too. All of the books indicate that rolls and paddlefloating nonsense are great ways to murder kids and other people (bla bla bla) I have dozens of his blood-thirsty posts. It will be an honour to publish the details of Nystrom's psycho-sexual gratification. Although he does a good job himself. Ted Bundy was one thing. But Nystrom enjoying 1,500 canoe and kayak deaths, by depriving the public of a $50 CO2 gas powered built-in life raft, is another matter. These sponsons have 80 lbs. buoyancy apiece, if he could read: |
Canoe & Kayak Scams Kills 1,000 Americans
A visit? For what purpose?
Be careful what you suggest others do, especially in this crazy world. These two have been going at it for a few years. Tim is a nut and Brian can't ignore him. "Dave Van" wrote in message ink.net... Somebody needs to pay this guy a visit. "Tim Ingram" wrote in message m... Indeed Nystrom is the most despicable kind of murderer, Crazy or not. First of all, he likes to see the murder of little Girl Guides. Boy Scouts work for him too. All of the books indicate that rolls and paddlefloating nonsense are great ways to murder kids and other people (bla bla bla) I have dozens of his blood-thirsty posts. It will be an honour to publish the details of Nystrom's psycho-sexual gratification. Although he does a good job himself. Ted Bundy was one thing. But Nystrom enjoying 1,500 canoe and kayak deaths, by depriving the public of a $50 CO2 gas powered built-in life raft, is another matter. These sponsons have 80 lbs. buoyancy apiece, if he could read: |
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