2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On 02/05/2011 6:33 PM, Harryk wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/05/2011 4:24 PM, OmDeFlume wrote:
On 5/2/2011 5:03 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/05/2011 2:04 PM, OmDeFlume wrote:
On 5/2/2011 3:57 PM, Hairy Kraut wrote:
In articleuPudnYiv54xwlCLQnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/05/2011 1:31 PM, Harryk wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/05/2011 8:23 AM, Harryk wrote:

May 2, 2011
2012 Election Cancelled
Obama Buoyed by 100 Percent Approval Rating

Wait until people learn how long it took Obama to authorize it.
Some
stuff I have read indicates Obama knew since August last year.

Oh, please. It was obviously a deliberate plan, executed
deliberately.

Go **** yourself.

Go f- yourself fleabagger.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/publ...terrorism.html







In above search for August.

Who cares? The only thing you are trying to do is cheapen this
bit of
success that belongs to the u.s. military, the cia, and obama. Oh,
and
your quoted piece does not state Obama knew Osama was there last
August.

Once again, go **** yourself.

But you have such disdain for the U.S. military, Harry, I'd think
you'd
be the first to start yelling that it was money not well spent. You
did
say how stupid it was when Bush was president.
At least under Bush, Saddam got the benefit of a fair trial.

Osama had over 300 indictments and warrants from various countries.

Gadafi, different story. That one is a vindictive baby killing botch
job. But wait, we can get Osama to make government plotted
assassinations look good.

BTW, I agree with going for Osama. But not Kadafi. In Kadafi's case it
is to shut him up, gain control of a central bank and oil. If they wnt
to assassinate him, present the evidence and not the deception.

I'm glad the the Osama case is closed. I hope it was really him and not
a stunt double. Only the fishes know for sure. But, what strikes me
funny, is the same bleeding heart civil rights progressive assholes who
cried out for the rights of those poor souls detained in Gitmo cheered
at the news that Osama was murdered.

The real reason his body was dumped is there probably wasn't much left.
A real mess actually. Say 20 hollow point explosive rounds from
munitions only the military can get. Who knows, they might have picked
him up in pieces.

The reports are he was shot twice.
Do you ever post any "news" that is fact-based?


Wow good shots. Did it say what with? Standard M16 with standard
rounds I doubt it. Want the loads to be armor piercing at least. Maybe
round robin loaded, one armor piercing, one explosive then a hollow
point round. 3 shoots and something happens.

Saves taxpayers his keep.
--
I can assure you that the road to prosperity is not paved with
fleabagger debt.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 00:52:15 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 May 2011 21:22:30 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 2 May 2011 19:32:08 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:


So, you're claiming that Obama didn't take a huge risk, on the order
of Carter's risk to free the hostages?

Actually I give Obama high marks for doing this right so it wasn't the
cluster**** Carter had at desert 1.

You're blaming Carter for the desert operation? He tried but it didn't
work.

He used the right helicopters and the people who went on the mission
were well trained. The story is they actually built a full sized mock
up and practiced this until they had it down cold

I believe things have changed a bit since Carter. Carter did what he
could.

If I was a terrorist I might laugh at 150,000 regular GIs but 2 dozen
SEALs would scare the **** out of me.

What risk did Bush take?

Invading Iraq?

You mean lying and expecting not to get caught.

He was on vacation for 1/3 of his presidency.

Does any president ever really get a vacation? The presidency follows
them wherever they go or I would really be worried about them walking
around natural disaster sites in Fumbuck kicking rubble.

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

In article ,
says...

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

Before 9/11 GWB spent most of his time goofing off at his ranch.
He had Congress cut taxes and keep spending to start the destruction of
the American economy.
His polled popularity was sinking fast as people became aware he was an
empty suit.
Then came 9/11.
9/11 made GWB.
I turned around and supported him. No choice as an American.
Then he invaded Iraq and I flip-flopped again.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

I_am_Tosk wrote:
In articlenuudnfUdG57ioCLQnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...
I_am_Tosk wrote:
In , says...
On 5/2/2011 5:03 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/05/2011 2:04 PM, OmDeFlume wrote:
On 5/2/2011 3:57 PM, Hairy Kraut wrote:
In articleuPudnYiv54xwlCLQnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...
Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/05/2011 1:31 PM, Harryk wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/05/2011 8:23 AM, Harryk wrote:
May 2, 2011
2012 Election Cancelled
Obama Buoyed by 100 Percent Approval Rating
Wait until people learn how long it took Obama to authorize it. Some
stuff I have read indicates Obama knew since August last year.
Oh, please. It was obviously a deliberate plan, executed
deliberately.

Go **** yourself.
Go f- yourself fleabagger.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/publ...terrorism.html




In above search for August.

Who cares? The only thing you are trying to do is cheapen this bit of
success that belongs to the u.s. military, the cia, and obama. Oh, and
your quoted piece does not state Obama knew Osama was there last
August.

Once again, go **** yourself.
But you have such disdain for the U.S. military, Harry, I'd think you'd
be the first to start yelling that it was money not well spent. You did
say how stupid it was when Bush was president.
At least under Bush, Saddam got the benefit of a fair trial.
Osama had over 300 indictments and warrants from various countries.

Gadafi, different story. That one is a vindictive baby killing botch
job. But wait, we can get Osama to make government plotted
assassinations look good.

BTW, I agree with going for Osama. But not Kadafi. In Kadafi's case it
is to shut him up, gain control of a central bank and oil. If they wnt
to assassinate him, present the evidence and not the deception.

I'm glad the the Osama case is closed. I hope it was really him and not
a stunt double. Only the fishes know for sure. But, what strikes me
funny, is the same bleeding heart civil rights progressive assholes who
cried out for the rights of those poor souls detained in Gitmo cheered
at the news that Osama was murdered.
Reports are he was not holding a weapon when he was shot in the head
either. Some of the pictures however were definately photoshopped.. One
has to wonder...

A. What reports, from who?

B. How would a cipher like you know what was and wasn't photoshopped?

I see you have a new word for the week... "cipher". I do wonder if these
words of the week come from the DNC talking points, or if you are
looking over your shrinks shoulder again and reading the notes...


Neither. The word comes from my extensive vocabulary, which I have built
up over the years by reading and by consulting reference books when a
word or meaning was unknown or unclear.

I suppose I could have spent that time engaged in kiddie motorbike
racing, but...there's no future in that.

You ought to find a new hobby on the internet. Engaging in badinage in
usenet clearly is beyond your meager abilities.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On 5/2/2011 7:25 PM, Harryk wrote:

B. How would a cipher like you know what was and wasn't photoshopped?

Remember that pimped out photo of your granddaughter that you posted?
You denied that it had been edited, but then it was proven that it had
been?

You da expert, man.

Isn't it time for Paul@byc to make an appearance?

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

"Harryk" wrote in message
...

Canuck57 wrote:
On 02/05/2011 8:23 AM, Harryk wrote:

May 2, 2011
2012 Election Cancelled
Obama Buoyed by 100 Percent Approval Rating

Wait until people learn how long it took Obama to authorize it. Some
stuff I have read indicates Obama knew since August last year.

Oh, please. It was obviously a deliberate plan, executed deliberately.

Go **** yourself.

***************

Yeah... the three stooges (GeorgieBoy , Dickie and Rummy) couldn't do
anything for 7 years.
Looks like Obama really can do it'

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:27:09 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:


When you have your intelligence resources devoted to assembling shreds
of "evidence" to "prove" the existence of Iraq WMD, there's not much
left over to hunt for Bin Laden.
Bush made himself clear in his words above.
Iraq was always more important to him than Bin Laden.
He shut down the CIA unit hunting for Obama in 2005.
That's when Bin Laden had his house built. 2005.
Obama was saying back in 2007 that he would send troops into Pakistan to
get Bin Laden or any other high level target.

The only problem with that is the path to this house came from 2007
and some information they got from KSM in Gitmo. Maybe we just said we
were not "looking for OBL" to get him to relax and settle in
somewhere.

There's no "problem" with the facts I stated.
Anything about KSM and where the "path" started is talking head
speculation.
I already hear the Bush fans using this to justify torture.
And those on the other side denying it.
Here's what we know: Obama got Bin Laden. And GWB didn't.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:27:09 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:


When you have your intelligence resources devoted to assembling shreds
of "evidence" to "prove" the existence of Iraq WMD, there's not much
left over to hunt for Bin Laden.
Bush made himself clear in his words above.
Iraq was always more important to him than Bin Laden.
He shut down the CIA unit hunting for Obama in 2005.
That's when Bin Laden had his house built. 2005.
Obama was saying back in 2007 that he would send troops into Pakistan to
get Bin Laden or any other high level target.

The only problem with that is the path to this house came from 2007
and some information they got from KSM in Gitmo. Maybe we just said we
were not "looking for OBL" to get him to relax and settle in
somewhere.

There's no "problem" with the facts I stated.
Anything about KSM and where the "path" started is talking head
speculation.
I already hear the Bush fans using this to justify torture.
And those on the other side denying it.
Here's what we know: Obama got Bin Laden. And GWB didn't.

That is so simplistic... as if it wasn't a ten year hunt... The
intelligence agencies got Bin Laden. All either President Bush or
President Obama did was say, "go get 'em"...

--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:27:08 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

Before 9/11 GWB spent most of his time goofing off at his ranch.
He had Congress cut taxes and keep spending to start the destruction of
the American economy.
His polled popularity was sinking fast as people became aware he was an
empty suit.
Then came 9/11.
9/11 made GWB.
I turned around and supported him. No choice as an American.
Then he invaded Iraq and I flip-flopped again.



Yes, I did also. He had something like 90% approval ratings. Then, he
squandered everything, including support abroad.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 11:06:50 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 May 2011 23:15:33 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 00:52:15 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 May 2011 21:22:30 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 2 May 2011 19:32:08 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:


So, you're claiming that Obama didn't take a huge risk, on the order
of Carter's risk to free the hostages?

Actually I give Obama high marks for doing this right so it wasn't the
cluster**** Carter had at desert 1.

You're blaming Carter for the desert operation? He tried but it didn't
work.

If Obama did this, Carter did that one. You can't have it both ways.

Huh? The both did both. Obama made a decisive decision, and so did
Carter. What honest decision did Bush make? None that I can think of.


He used the right helicopters and the people who went on the mission
were well trained. The story is they actually built a full sized mock
up and practiced this until they had it down cold

I believe things have changed a bit since Carter. Carter did what he
could.

He could have use a ground attack helicopter with air filters on the
engine intakes instead of the mine sweeping Sea Stallions they used.

He? So Carter was the one who decided what type of helicopter was
used? On what planet?


If I was a terrorist I might laugh at 150,000 regular GIs but 2 dozen
SEALs would scare the **** out of me.

What risk did Bush take?

Invading Iraq?

You mean lying and expecting not to get caught.

I think he just believed what he was told. The intel came from the
Brits and we know now it was bogus. Why not blame them a little. Again
you want this both ways. On one hand you think he was totally out of
touch and didn't know anything and then you have him being some kind
of evil genius

He and/or Cheney fabricated the intelligence to suit his desire. You
don't have to be particularly smart to foster lies.

He was on vacation for 1/3 of his presidency.

Does any president ever really get a vacation? The presidency follows
them wherever they go or I would really be worried about them walking
around natural disaster sites in Fumbuck kicking rubble.

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

It is just clear you do not understand how the president, any
president, travels. The White House comes with them.

It's clear that you're going to defend Bush no matter what. The "White
House" doesn't "come with them." They can do a bunch of stuff, but
it's not like you're on sight, talking to and meeting with all the
people.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 11:06:50 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 May 2011 23:15:33 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 00:52:15 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 May 2011 21:22:30 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 2 May 2011 19:32:08 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:


So, you're claiming that Obama didn't take a huge risk, on the order
of Carter's risk to free the hostages?

Actually I give Obama high marks for doing this right so it wasn't the
cluster**** Carter had at desert 1.

You're blaming Carter for the desert operation? He tried but it didn't
work.

If Obama did this, Carter did that one. You can't have it both ways.

He used the right helicopters and the people who went on the mission
were well trained. The story is they actually built a full sized mock
up and practiced this until they had it down cold

I believe things have changed a bit since Carter. Carter did what he
could.

He could have use a ground attack helicopter with air filters on the
engine intakes instead of the mine sweeping Sea Stallions they used.


If I was a terrorist I might laugh at 150,000 regular GIs but 2 dozen
SEALs would scare the **** out of me.

What risk did Bush take?

Invading Iraq?

You mean lying and expecting not to get caught.

I think he just believed what he was told. The intel came from the
Brits and we know now it was bogus. Why not blame them a little. Again
you want this both ways. On one hand you think he was totally out of
touch and didn't know anything and then you have him being some kind
of evil genius

He was on vacation for 1/3 of his presidency.

Does any president ever really get a vacation? The presidency follows
them wherever they go or I would really be worried about them walking
around natural disaster sites in Fumbuck kicking rubble.

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

It is just clear you do not understand how the president, any
president, travels. The White House comes with them.

onsite... lest the stalkers go crazy.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:52:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:50:35 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:27:09 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:


When you have your intelligence resources devoted to assembling shreds
of "evidence" to "prove" the existence of Iraq WMD, there's not much
left over to hunt for Bin Laden.
Bush made himself clear in his words above.
Iraq was always more important to him than Bin Laden.
He shut down the CIA unit hunting for Obama in 2005.
That's when Bin Laden had his house built. 2005.
Obama was saying back in 2007 that he would send troops into Pakistan to
get Bin Laden or any other high level target.

The only problem with that is the path to this house came from 2007
and some information they got from KSM in Gitmo. Maybe we just said we
were not "looking for OBL" to get him to relax and settle in
somewhere.

There's no "problem" with the facts I stated.
Anything about KSM and where the "path" started is talking head
speculation.
I already hear the Bush fans using this to justify torture.
And those on the other side denying it.
Here's what we know: Obama got Bin Laden. And GWB didn't.

That is so simplistic... as if it wasn't a ten year hunt... The
intelligence agencies got Bin Laden. All either President Bush or
President Obama did was say, "go get 'em"...

The thing that Obama did right was hire the right guys, make sure they
had the right support, training and stayed out of the way while they
did their job.

I give him an A on this one.

And, the thing GWB did right?

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 03 May 2011 14:03:41 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:52:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:50:35 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:27:09 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:


When you have your intelligence resources devoted to assembling shreds
of "evidence" to "prove" the existence of Iraq WMD, there's not much
left over to hunt for Bin Laden.
Bush made himself clear in his words above.
Iraq was always more important to him than Bin Laden.
He shut down the CIA unit hunting for Obama in 2005.
That's when Bin Laden had his house built. 2005.
Obama was saying back in 2007 that he would send troops into Pakistan to
get Bin Laden or any other high level target.

The only problem with that is the path to this house came from 2007
and some information they got from KSM in Gitmo. Maybe we just said we
were not "looking for OBL" to get him to relax and settle in
somewhere.

There's no "problem" with the facts I stated.
Anything about KSM and where the "path" started is talking head
speculation.
I already hear the Bush fans using this to justify torture.
And those on the other side denying it.
Here's what we know: Obama got Bin Laden. And GWB didn't.

That is so simplistic... as if it wasn't a ten year hunt... The
intelligence agencies got Bin Laden. All either President Bush or
President Obama did was say, "go get 'em"...

The thing that Obama did right was hire the right guys, make sure they
had the right support, training and stayed out of the way while they
did their job.

I give him an A on this one.

And, the thing GWB did right?

Anti-AIDS efforts in Africa?
Catching Saddam?

And don't forget, "hiring" the right guys then too, probably the same
"guys" President Bush "hired" too... The intelligence agencies.
President Obama picked up where President Bush left off, in the middle
east, and here too for that matter in most areas.

--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:54:24 -0700, wrote:

He? So Carter was the one who decided what type of helicopter was
used? On what planet?

It's all about management.

Are the right people in place, have they been given access to the
necessary resources, and have they been given the right sense of
priorities?

There was a breakdown somewhere in that list, and like it or not, all
roads lead back to Carter. As Harry Truman said, "The buck stops
here", and he was right.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:30:31 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 14:03:41 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:52:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:50:35 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:27:09 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:


When you have your intelligence resources devoted to assembling shreds
of "evidence" to "prove" the existence of Iraq WMD, there's not much
left over to hunt for Bin Laden.
Bush made himself clear in his words above.
Iraq was always more important to him than Bin Laden.
He shut down the CIA unit hunting for Obama in 2005.
That's when Bin Laden had his house built. 2005.
Obama was saying back in 2007 that he would send troops into Pakistan to
get Bin Laden or any other high level target.

The only problem with that is the path to this house came from 2007
and some information they got from KSM in Gitmo. Maybe we just said we
were not "looking for OBL" to get him to relax and settle in
somewhere.

There's no "problem" with the facts I stated.
Anything about KSM and where the "path" started is talking head
speculation.
I already hear the Bush fans using this to justify torture.
And those on the other side denying it.
Here's what we know: Obama got Bin Laden. And GWB didn't.

That is so simplistic... as if it wasn't a ten year hunt... The
intelligence agencies got Bin Laden. All either President Bush or
President Obama did was say, "go get 'em"...

The thing that Obama did right was hire the right guys, make sure they
had the right support, training and stayed out of the way while they
did their job.

I give him an A on this one.

And, the thing GWB did right?

Anti-AIDS efforts in Africa?
Catching Saddam?

Anti-AIDS effort was great, except for the abstinence only crap.

Catching Saddam was nice, except that it was predicated upon a war of
choice.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:24:42 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:54:24 -0700, wrote:

I believe things have changed a bit since Carter. Carter did what he
could.

He could have use a ground attack helicopter with air filters on the
engine intakes instead of the mine sweeping Sea Stallions they used.

He? So Carter was the one who decided what type of helicopter was
used? On what planet?

On the planet where Carter thought he should be micro managing
everything.

Please show us something to suggest Carter designated which type of
helicopter to fly.


If I was a terrorist I might laugh at 150,000 regular GIs but 2 dozen
SEALs would scare the **** out of me.

What risk did Bush take?

Invading Iraq?

You mean lying and expecting not to get caught.

I think he just believed what he was told. The intel came from the
Brits and we know now it was bogus. Why not blame them a little. Again
you want this both ways. On one hand you think he was totally out of
touch and didn't know anything and then you have him being some kind
of evil genius

He and/or Cheney fabricated the intelligence to suit his desire. You
don't have to be particularly smart to foster lies.

And you are saying the flawed info from the brits had nothing to do
with it?

I'm saying that it seems to me that there was conflicting information,
and that he should have done his due diligence to sort it out.
Instead, he decided to accept it without vetting, and Cheney attempted
to get at Joe Wilson by outing an undercover CIA agent.



He was on vacation for 1/3 of his presidency.

Does any president ever really get a vacation? The presidency follows
them wherever they go or I would really be worried about them walking
around natural disaster sites in Fumbuck kicking rubble.

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

It is just clear you do not understand how the president, any
president, travels. The White House comes with them.

It's clear that you're going to defend Bush no matter what. The "White
House" doesn't "come with them." They can do a bunch of stuff, but
it's not like you're on sight, talking to and meeting with all the
people.

What can't they do?

See previous. Sorry if you're having reading comprehension problems.

I do have some intimate information about exactly how the president
travels. My brother in law was the White House telephone support rep
pretty much living in EOB unless the president traveled, then he was
in the support plane. They took the whole White House switchboard with
them (a duplicate #5 crossbar, then later an ESS.) . He worked for
LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter and Reagan.
My neighbor did the same thing in the Air Force side, setting up the
secure data links for the phones, radios, computers and the
"football".
If they are at Camp David or their residence, all of that is already
there.
The president does not have to "see" anyone to get his job done.

Which has nothing to do with what I said previously.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:47:48 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:54:24 -0700, wrote:

He? So Carter was the one who decided what type of helicopter was
used? On what planet?

It's all about management.

Are the right people in place, have they been given access to the
necessary resources, and have they been given the right sense of
priorities?

There was a breakdown somewhere in that list, and like it or not, all
roads lead back to Carter. As Harry Truman said, "The buck stops
here", and he was right.

And, Carter paid the price for it, but don't try and claim he failed
to give it his best. Bush did not give it his best and he said so
publically.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 19:01:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:47:48 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:54:24 -0700, wrote:

He? So Carter was the one who decided what type of helicopter was
used? On what planet?

It's all about management.

Are the right people in place, have they been given access to the
necessary resources, and have they been given the right sense of
priorities?

There was a breakdown somewhere in that list, and like it or not, all
roads lead back to Carter. As Harry Truman said, "The buck stops
here", and he was right.

It was cobbled together pretty fast without enough real planning. That
was the big flaw.

Mostly untrue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw


Perhaps there was the fear that loading more capable helicopters on a
carrier would attract attention but FDR managed to train crews and put
B-25s on the Hornet without a leak. Much like Mogadishu, the right
assets should have been in theater before you try things like this or
you can't deal with adversity.

I bet the sky over Aghanistan was black with orbiting planes and
choppers full of guys, in case this thing blew up.

I'll bet that if you look at the timeline, there was a lot more time
available for the current vs. the previous.

Feel free to claim Clinton was at fault, but Reagan did just fine in
Lebanon.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 21:29:31 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:20:37 -0700, wrote:

He was on vacation for 1/3 of his presidency.

Does any president ever really get a vacation? The presidency follows
them wherever they go or I would really be worried about them walking
around natural disaster sites in Fumbuck kicking rubble.

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

It is just clear you do not understand how the president, any
president, travels. The White House comes with them.

It's clear that you're going to defend Bush no matter what. The "White
House" doesn't "come with them." They can do a bunch of stuff, but
it's not like you're on sight, talking to and meeting with all the
people.

What can't they do?

See previous. Sorry if you're having reading comprehension problems.

"meeting all the people"? Is that what you mean?
You can have a meeting without being in the same room.

Sure. Feel free to defend Bush's 1/3 term vacation. I guess you must
not understand how important it is to meet face-to-face with people.
Do you think he imported all the people to Crawford for an hour
meeting.


FDR ran most of WWII from a sanitarium in Arkansas.

I think that was a few years ago. I'm sure it's applicable somehow.

I do have some intimate information about exactly how the president
travels. My brother in law was the White House telephone support rep
pretty much living in EOB unless the president traveled, then he was
in the support plane. They took the whole White House switchboard with
them (a duplicate #5 crossbar, then later an ESS.) . He worked for
LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter and Reagan.
My neighbor did the same thing in the Air Force side, setting up the
secure data links for the phones, radios, computers and the
"football".
If they are at Camp David or their residence, all of that is already
there.
The president does not have to "see" anyone to get his job done.

Which has nothing to do with what I said previously.

What did you say that makes that wrong?

See previous. I don't need to spend my time typing the same thing over
and over.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 20:53:00 -0400, Harryk
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:47:48 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:54:24 -0700, wrote:

He? So Carter was the one who decided what type of helicopter was
used? On what planet?
It's all about management.

Are the right people in place, have they been given access to the
necessary resources, and have they been given the right sense of
priorities?

There was a breakdown somewhere in that list, and like it or not, all
roads lead back to Carter. As Harry Truman said, "The buck stops
here", and he was right.

And, Carter paid the price for it, but don't try and claim he failed
to give it his best. Bush did not give it his best and he said so
publically.


The Bush Admin did not rise to the level of competency on most issues.

Yeah, I guess when he was informed that we were under attack, he
thought not finding out the details for 7 minutes was fine.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 18:46:07 -0700, sent the
following message
On Tue, 03 May 2011 21:29:31 -0400, wrote:


On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:20:37 -0700, wrote:

He was on vacation for 1/3 of his presidency.

Does any president ever really get a vacation? The
presidency follows
them wherever they go or I would really be worried about
them walking
around natural disaster sites in Fumbuck kicking rubble.

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had
lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at
least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and
I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

It is just clear you do not understand how the president, any
president, travels. The White House comes with them.

It's clear that you're going to defend Bush no matter what. The
"White
House" doesn't "come with them." They can do a bunch of stuff,
but
it's not like you're on sight, talking to and meeting with all
the
people.

What can't they do?

See previous. Sorry if you're having reading comprehension
problems.

"meeting all the people"? Is that what you mean?
You can have a meeting without being in the same room.


Sure. Feel free to defend Bush's 1/3 term vacation. I guess you must
not understand how important it is to meet face-to-face with people.
Do you think he imported all the people to Crawford for an hour
meeting.



FDR ran most of WWII from a sanitarium in Arkansas.


I think that was a few years ago. I'm sure it's applicable somehow.


I do have some intimate information about exactly how the
president
travels. My brother in law was the White House telephone support
rep
pretty much living in EOB unless the president traveled, then he
was
in the support plane. They took the whole White House
switchboard with
them (a duplicate #5 crossbar, then later an ESS.) . He worked
for
LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter and Reagan.
My neighbor did the same thing in the Air Force side, setting up
the
secure data links for the phones, radios, computers and the
"football".
If they are at Camp David or their residence, all of that is
already
there.
The president does not have to "see" anyone to get his job done.

Which has nothing to do with what I said previously.

What did you say that makes that wrong?


See previous. I don't need to spend my time typing the same thing
over
and over.

You should stop, then.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 22:55:57 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 18:46:07 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 21:29:31 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:20:37 -0700, wrote:

He was on vacation for 1/3 of his presidency.

Does any president ever really get a vacation? The presidency follows
them wherever they go or I would really be worried about them walking
around natural disaster sites in Fumbuck kicking rubble.

He was sitting on his ranch enjoying himself. I'm sure he had lots of
interaction with all his policy makers and Congress in DC, at least in
between riding around his ranch and watching TV.

Feel free to defend him, but the fact is that he was AWOL and I'm not
talking about his "service" in the Texas Air National Guard.

It is just clear you do not understand how the president, any
president, travels. The White House comes with them.

It's clear that you're going to defend Bush no matter what. The "White
House" doesn't "come with them." They can do a bunch of stuff, but
it's not like you're on sight, talking to and meeting with all the
people.

What can't they do?

See previous. Sorry if you're having reading comprehension problems.

"meeting all the people"? Is that what you mean?
You can have a meeting without being in the same room.

Sure. Feel free to defend Bush's 1/3 term vacation. I guess you must
not understand how important it is to meet face-to-face with people.
Do you think he imported all the people to Crawford for an hour
meeting.


FDR ran most of WWII from a sanitarium in Arkansas.

I think that was a few years ago. I'm sure it's applicable somehow.


Yeah it was in a time when you either talked on the phone or you sent
a telegram.

Bush had video conferencing, the internet and a communication system
worthy of the starship enterprise.

Actually, even the White House itself is nothing like we see on TV.
There have been ongoing complaints that even the phones don't work, so
I don't know where you're getting this "inside" info.

Who was he going to have this meeting with that was could not be had
on a conference call?

Maybe you should talk to Obama.

You keep saying Cheney was running the country anyway.

And, this absolves Bush?

Who runs the country when Obama decides to take his wife to Chicago on
a date or he flies down to Alabama for a photo op next to a blown up
trailer?

Big difference isn't it, since he's not gone for weeks/months at a
time. But, of course, Obama is terrible and Bush was ok.

BTW in this regard I have always given Clinton credit.
Carter had to go back to Georgia for adventures with killer rabbits,
Bush and Reagan had to go to the ranch to clear brush but Clinton
could just slip out into the hall for a 5 minute blowjob and he was
back on the job, refreshed and ready to go, That was efficiency.

And, that's just terrible isn't it. Oh how the right loves to condemn
him. All from the holier than thou who were incredibly hypocritical.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Tue, 03 May 2011 21:46:25 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:24:28 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 19:01:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:47:48 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:54:24 -0700, wrote:

He? So Carter was the one who decided what type of helicopter was
used? On what planet?

It's all about management.

Are the right people in place, have they been given access to the
necessary resources, and have they been given the right sense of
priorities?

There was a breakdown somewhere in that list, and like it or not, all
roads lead back to Carter. As Harry Truman said, "The buck stops
here", and he was right.

It was cobbled together pretty fast without enough real planning. That
was the big flaw.

Mostly untrue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

These guys didn't even do a cursory investigation into the weather or
just exactly what the nature of the desert was really like.
Your Wiki says they did not understand the sand moves and that it also
flies in the air. They took sea going helicopters with no defense
against airborne dirt into a sand storm. Guess what, The helicopters
failed ... duh!
That is a failure of planning.

Give the time-frame they were working under, it was the best they
could do. Of course, Carter was evil and/or incompetent, even though
he got more done legislatively than just about any other president.

Perhaps there was the fear that loading more capable helicopters on a
carrier would attract attention but FDR managed to train crews and put
B-25s on the Hornet without a leak. Much like Mogadishu, the right
assets should have been in theater before you try things like this or
you can't deal with adversity.

I bet the sky over Aghanistan was black with orbiting planes and
choppers full of guys, in case this thing blew up.

I'll bet that if you look at the timeline, there was a lot more time
available for the current vs. the previous.

Then maybe they shouldn't have done it and Carter was the one who said
GO.

So, you believe he was told that it wouldn't work but he said go
anyway? Keep trying, but you're not even close.


Feel free to claim Clinton was at fault, but Reagan did just fine in
Lebanon.

Lebanon was a suicide bomber crashing into a hotel, not exactly the
same as an attack in Iran is it?

False equivalency

And, Reagan in all his glory, cut and ran. What a hero!

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Wed, 04 May 2011 01:23:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 20:53:41 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 21:46:25 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:24:28 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 19:01:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 17:47:48 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:54:24 -0700, wrote:

He? So Carter was the one who decided what type of helicopter was
used? On what planet?

It's all about management.

Are the right people in place, have they been given access to the
necessary resources, and have they been given the right sense of
priorities?

There was a breakdown somewhere in that list, and like it or not, all
roads lead back to Carter. As Harry Truman said, "The buck stops
here", and he was right.

It was cobbled together pretty fast without enough real planning. That
was the big flaw.

Mostly untrue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

These guys didn't even do a cursory investigation into the weather or
just exactly what the nature of the desert was really like.
Your Wiki says they did not understand the sand moves and that it also
flies in the air. They took sea going helicopters with no defense
against airborne dirt into a sand storm. Guess what, The helicopters
failed ... duh!
That is a failure of planning.

Give the time-frame they were working under, it was the best they
could do. Of course,

You should watch the Charley Rose interview with Dennis Blair this
week (5/03/11) It starts about 30 minutes in,. I am sure it is on the
web site. He says pretty much what I said about Eagle Claw.

No agenda there... he was fired by Obama.

Carter was evil and/or incompetent,

Yes, in DC terms he was incompetent. He did not understand how things
worked and did not really accomplish much.

even though
he got more done legislatively than just about any other president.

Huh? More than LBJ? More than Nixon? FDR?
You are going to have to explain that one.
Even Carter says his main achievement was Camp David

Huh... read up.... http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car0bio-1

Perhaps there was the fear that loading more capable helicopters on a
carrier would attract attention but FDR managed to train crews and put
B-25s on the Hornet without a leak. Much like Mogadishu, the right
assets should have been in theater before you try things like this or
you can't deal with adversity.

I bet the sky over Aghanistan was black with orbiting planes and
choppers full of guys, in case this thing blew up.

I'll bet that if you look at the timeline, there was a lot more time
available for the current vs. the previous.

Then maybe they shouldn't have done it and Carter was the one who said
GO.

So, you believe he was told that it wouldn't work but he said go
anyway? Keep trying, but you're not even close.

Where does the buck stop?

You didn't answer the question. What a shocker.


Feel free to claim Clinton was at fault, but Reagan did just fine in
Lebanon.

Lebanon was a suicide bomber crashing into a hotel, not exactly the
same as an attack in Iran is it?

False equivalency

And, Reagan in all his glory, cut and ran. What a hero!

There was nothing to be gained there, just like Somalia a few years
later. Sometimes cutting your losses and getting the hell out is the
smart thing to do.

So, he cut and ran. Of course, when Clinton finally left after GHWB
started it, all the right wingers claimed it was because it was
because of Lewinski. That was ok with you... lying and misleading the
American people is typical for right-wingers.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Wed, 04 May 2011 13:42:49 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 09:30:49 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 01:23:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 20:53:41 -0700, wrote:

These guys didn't even do a cursory investigation into the weather or
just exactly what the nature of the desert was really like.
Your Wiki says they did not understand the sand moves and that it also
flies in the air. They took sea going helicopters with no defense
against airborne dirt into a sand storm. Guess what, The helicopters
failed ... duh!
That is a failure of planning.

Give the time-frame they were working under, it was the best they
could do. Of course,

You should watch the Charley Rose interview with Dennis Blair this
week (5/03/11) It starts about 30 minutes in,. I am sure it is on the
web site. He says pretty much what I said about Eagle Claw.

No agenda there... he was fired by Obama.

You didn't watch it did you.

I don't have the time to confirm or deny all of your wild references.
Are you denying that he screwed up and was fired?


Carter was evil and/or incompetent,

Yes, in DC terms he was incompetent. He did not understand how things
worked and did not really accomplish much.

even though
he got more done legislatively than just about any other president.

Huh? More than LBJ? More than Nixon? FDR?
You are going to have to explain that one.
Even Carter says his main achievement was Camp David

Huh... read up.... http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car0bio-1


You must not have even read the article you cited. I saw no
significant legislative things there.
They talk a lot about the foreign policy things, mostly Camp David,
that I pointed out, Salt II and giving away the Panama canal.
That is nothing compared to FDR, LBJ or Nixon's LEGISLATIVE
accomplishments and that is what you were talking about.

Try again. This time read slower.



Perhaps there was the fear that loading more capable helicopters on a
carrier would attract attention but FDR managed to train crews and put
B-25s on the Hornet without a leak. Much like Mogadishu, the right
assets should have been in theater before you try things like this or
you can't deal with adversity.

I bet the sky over Aghanistan was black with orbiting planes and
choppers full of guys, in case this thing blew up.

I'll bet that if you look at the timeline, there was a lot more time
available for the current vs. the previous.

Then maybe they shouldn't have done it and Carter was the one who said
GO.

So, you believe he was told that it wouldn't work but he said go
anyway? Keep trying, but you're not even close.

Where does the buck stop?

You didn't answer the question. What a shocker.

I believe he approved a flawed plan, in a hurry without doing due
diligence and it was a horrible debacle. Carter was involved in all of
the decision making and most of the planning. Maybe you should do some
reading, beyond a single Wiki post.

So, you're claiming that Carter selected the helicopter models? Did he
also select the ammo?

Feel free to claim Clinton was at fault, but Reagan did just fine in
Lebanon.

Lebanon was a suicide bomber crashing into a hotel, not exactly the
same as an attack in Iran is it?

False equivalency

And, Reagan in all his glory, cut and ran. What a hero!

There was nothing to be gained there, just like Somalia a few years
later. Sometimes cutting your losses and getting the hell out is the
smart thing to do.

So, he cut and ran. Of course, when Clinton finally left after GHWB
started it, all the right wingers claimed it was because it was
because of Lewinski. That was ok with you... lying and misleading the
American people is typical for right-wingers.

GHWB did not authorize that mission. He was long gone. Again you want
to blame a Bush for a democratic failure.

So, I guess this is just all made up then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCeFXeuE4U

Get your facts straight. Clinton tried to fix Bush I's mess.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Wed, 04 May 2011 14:59:03 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 11:00:28 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 13:42:49 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 09:30:49 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 01:23:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 20:53:41 -0700, wrote:

These guys didn't even do a cursory investigation into the weather or
just exactly what the nature of the desert was really like.
Your Wiki says they did not understand the sand moves and that it also
flies in the air. They took sea going helicopters with no defense
against airborne dirt into a sand storm. Guess what, The helicopters
failed ... duh!
That is a failure of planning.

Give the time-frame they were working under, it was the best they
could do. Of course,

You should watch the Charley Rose interview with Dennis Blair this
week (5/03/11) It starts about 30 minutes in,. I am sure it is on the
web site. He says pretty much what I said about Eagle Claw.

No agenda there... he was fired by Obama.

You didn't watch it did you.

I don't have the time to confirm or deny all of your wild references.
Are you denying that he screwed up and was fired?

So you are willing to speak from ignorance, OK

You're the one who appears to be selectively ignorant, since you won't
answer the question.


Blair was fired for reasons having nothing to do with his knowledge of
naval operations in the late 70s.

So, therefore, someone who's proven to be incompetent, should be
believed.


Carter was evil and/or incompetent,

Yes, in DC terms he was incompetent. He did not understand how things
worked and did not really accomplish much.

even though
he got more done legislatively than just about any other president.

Huh? More than LBJ? More than Nixon? FDR?
You are going to have to explain that one.
Even Carter says his main achievement was Camp David

Huh... read up.... http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car0bio-1


You must not have even read the article you cited. I saw no
significant legislative things there.
They talk a lot about the foreign policy things, mostly Camp David,
that I pointed out, Salt II and giving away the Panama canal.
That is nothing compared to FDR, LBJ or Nixon's LEGISLATIVE
accomplishments and that is what you were talking about.

Try again. This time read slower.

I did. Now enlighten us and quote the part I missed in that article.
Are you referring to the nebulous comments about reorganizing some
federal departments? That is executive, not legislative and was really
just changing some signs.

Enlighten yourself. You appear to need it.



Perhaps there was the fear that loading more capable helicopters on a
carrier would attract attention but FDR managed to train crews and put
B-25s on the Hornet without a leak. Much like Mogadishu, the right
assets should have been in theater before you try things like this or
you can't deal with adversity.

I bet the sky over Aghanistan was black with orbiting planes and
choppers full of guys, in case this thing blew up.

I'll bet that if you look at the timeline, there was a lot more time
available for the current vs. the previous.

Then maybe they shouldn't have done it and Carter was the one who said
GO.

So, you believe he was told that it wouldn't work but he said go
anyway? Keep trying, but you're not even close.

Where does the buck stop?

You didn't answer the question. What a shocker.

I believe he approved a flawed plan, in a hurry without doing due
diligence and it was a horrible debacle. Carter was involved in all of
the decision making and most of the planning. Maybe you should do some
reading, beyond a single Wiki post.

So, you're claiming that Carter selected the helicopter models? Did he
also select the ammo?


It was widely reported that Carter was involved in all of the decision
making, to the point of being disruptive. Carter's micro managing was
so pervasive and so public that it made it to Saturday Night Live.

Total nonsense. Carter didn't pick the helicopters or the crew. You
know it, I know it, the world knows it.


Feel free to claim Clinton was at fault, but Reagan did just fine in
Lebanon.

Lebanon was a suicide bomber crashing into a hotel, not exactly the
same as an attack in Iran is it?

False equivalency

And, Reagan in all his glory, cut and ran. What a hero!

There was nothing to be gained there, just like Somalia a few years
later. Sometimes cutting your losses and getting the hell out is the
smart thing to do.

So, he cut and ran. Of course, when Clinton finally left after GHWB
started it, all the right wingers claimed it was because it was
because of Lewinski. That was ok with you... lying and misleading the
American people is typical for right-wingers.

GHWB did not authorize that mission. He was long gone. Again you want
to blame a Bush for a democratic failure.

So, I guess this is just all made up then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCeFXeuE4U

Get your facts straight. Clinton tried to fix Bush I's mess.

Bush planned on getting the troops out by the time he left the white
house (Connie Chung said so). Why did Clinton keep them there? Why did
he expand the mission?

Oh, he _planned_ on doing it, but didn't, therefore, he did nothing
wrong. I get it.


At least you should listen to the You Tube videos you cite but you
don't seem to read the articles either so I am not surprised.

Was Bush wrong going into Somalia? Yes he was but like Obama in
Afghanistan, Clinton compounded the mistake.


Clinton did no such thing. Despite the nonsense, Bush started it, much
like the other Bush started in Iraq. Of course, that's all Obama's
fault, even Somalia.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Thu, 05 May 2011 13:51:35 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 12:49:06 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 14:59:03 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 11:00:28 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 13:42:49 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 09:30:49 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 01:23:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 20:53:41 -0700, wrote:

These guys didn't even do a cursory investigation into the weather or
just exactly what the nature of the desert was really like.
Your Wiki says they did not understand the sand moves and that it also
flies in the air. They took sea going helicopters with no defense
against airborne dirt into a sand storm. Guess what, The helicopters
failed ... duh!
That is a failure of planning.

Give the time-frame they were working under, it was the best they
could do. Of course,

You should watch the Charley Rose interview with Dennis Blair this
week (5/03/11) It starts about 30 minutes in,. I am sure it is on the
web site. He says pretty much what I said about Eagle Claw.

No agenda there... he was fired by Obama.

You didn't watch it did you.

I don't have the time to confirm or deny all of your wild references.
Are you denying that he screwed up and was fired?

So you are willing to speak from ignorance, OK

You're the one who appears to be selectively ignorant, since you won't
answer the question.


Blair was fired for reasons having nothing to do with his knowledge of
naval operations in the late 70s.

So, therefore, someone who's proven to be incompetent, should be
believed.

Nobody questioned Blair's "competence". There was just a policy
disagreement about sharing intel with the French.
If you disagree with the CnC you have to go.

Huh? Lots and lots of people have. Good grief. Look it up!


Carter was evil and/or incompetent,

Yes, in DC terms he was incompetent. He did not understand how things
worked and did not really accomplish much.

even though
he got more done legislatively than just about any other president.

Huh? More than LBJ? More than Nixon? FDR?
You are going to have to explain that one.
Even Carter says his main achievement was Camp David

Huh... read up.... http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car0bio-1


You must not have even read the article you cited. I saw no
significant legislative things there.
They talk a lot about the foreign policy things, mostly Camp David,
that I pointed out, Salt II and giving away the Panama canal.
That is nothing compared to FDR, LBJ or Nixon's LEGISLATIVE
accomplishments and that is what you were talking about.

Try again. This time read slower.

I did. Now enlighten us and quote the part I missed in that article.
Are you referring to the nebulous comments about reorganizing some
federal departments? That is executive, not legislative and was really
just changing some signs.

Enlighten yourself. You appear to need it.

You cited an article with absolutely ZERO references to legislative
achievements and now you are ducking the question with a personal
attack.

Try again. There are plenty listed.

Many of the Carter administration's most noteworthy accomplishments
came in the field of foreign affairs. President Carter established
full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China and made
good on a long-standing American promise to return control of the
Panama Canal to the Panamanians. After negotiating the necessary
treaties with Panama, Carter prevailed in an exceptionally contentious
ratification fight in the Senate.

The outstanding achievement of the Carter presidency was the peace
settlement between Israel and Egypt. Over 13 days of meetings at the
presidential retreat, Camp David, Carter persuaded President Anwar
Sadat of Egypt and Prime Minister Menachem Begin of Israel to end the
31-year state of war between their countries. Egypt was the first of
Israel's Arab neighbors to make peace with the Jewish state. Israel
ended its occupation of the Sinai peninsula and returned control of
the territory to Egypt.

President Carter also negotiated a Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty
(SALT II) with the Soviet Union, but before the Senate could vote to
ratify the treaty, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan and Carter
withdrew the treaty from consideration. The two superpowers agreed
informally to abide by the terms of the treaty, even though neither
side ever ratified it officially.




Perhaps there was the fear that loading more capable helicopters on a
carrier would attract attention but FDR managed to train crews and put
B-25s on the Hornet without a leak. Much like Mogadishu, the right
assets should have been in theater before you try things like this or
you can't deal with adversity.

I bet the sky over Aghanistan was black with orbiting planes and
choppers full of guys, in case this thing blew up.

I'll bet that if you look at the timeline, there was a lot more time
available for the current vs. the previous.

Then maybe they shouldn't have done it and Carter was the one who said
GO.

So, you believe he was told that it wouldn't work but he said go
anyway? Keep trying, but you're not even close.

Where does the buck stop?

You didn't answer the question. What a shocker.

I believe he approved a flawed plan, in a hurry without doing due
diligence and it was a horrible debacle. Carter was involved in all of
the decision making and most of the planning. Maybe you should do some
reading, beyond a single Wiki post.

So, you're claiming that Carter selected the helicopter models? Did he
also select the ammo?


It was widely reported that Carter was involved in all of the decision
making, to the point of being disruptive. Carter's micro managing was
so pervasive and so public that it made it to Saturday Night Live.

Total nonsense. Carter didn't pick the helicopters or the crew. You
know it, I know it, the world knows it.

... and you know this how?
It is a fact that Carter was intimately involved in these decisions,
to the point of meddling. Blair was at the pentagon, were you?

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Thu, 05 May 2011 17:06:38 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2011 13:46:22 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2011 13:51:35 -0400, wrote:


So, therefore, someone who's proven to be incompetent, should be
believed.

Nobody questioned Blair's "competence". There was just a policy
disagreement about sharing intel with the French.
If you disagree with the CnC you have to go.

Huh? Lots and lots of people have. Good grief. Look it up!



You will have to cite that. I can certainly give you dozens of
examples of people who were fired for disagreeing with the president,
any president.

Try Google...

http://davidswanson.org/node/2443
http://www.rsm.ac.uk/media/pr222.php
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle15514.htm

For a start. As usual, you refuse to even look stuff up on your own.


Carter was evil and/or incompetent,

Yes, in DC terms he was incompetent. He did not understand how things
worked and did not really accomplish much.

even though
he got more done legislatively than just about any other president.

Huh? More than LBJ? More than Nixon? FDR?
You are going to have to explain that one.
Even Carter says his main achievement was Camp David

Huh... read up.... http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car0bio-1


You must not have even read the article you cited. I saw no
significant legislative things there.
They talk a lot about the foreign policy things, mostly Camp David,
that I pointed out, Salt II and giving away the Panama canal.
That is nothing compared to FDR, LBJ or Nixon's LEGISLATIVE
accomplishments and that is what you were talking about.

Try again. This time read slower.

I did. Now enlighten us and quote the part I missed in that article.
Are you referring to the nebulous comments about reorganizing some
federal departments? That is executive, not legislative and was really
just changing some signs.

Enlighten yourself. You appear to need it.

You cited an article with absolutely ZERO references to legislative
achievements and now you are ducking the question with a personal
attack.

Try again. There are plenty listed.


Many of the Carter administration's most noteworthy accomplishments
came in the field of foreign affairs. President Carter established
full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China and made
good on a long-standing American promise to return control of the
Panama Canal to the Panamanians. After negotiating the necessary
treaties with Panama, Carter prevailed in an exceptionally contentious
ratification fight in the Senate.

So he gave away the Panama canal. I gave you that.
That was not really legislative. The house was not involved at all.
He pushed a ratification through a democratically controlled Senate.
Not exactly the creation of the EPA/OSHA et al, the Civil Rights act
or the New Deal is it?


•Panama Canal treaties
•Camp David Accords
•treaty of peace between Egypt and Israel
•the SALT II treaty with the Soviet Union
•establishment of U.S. diplomatic relations with the People's Republic
of China
•comprehensive energy program conducted by a new Department of Energy
•deregulation in energy, transportation, communications, and finance
•educational programs under a new Department of Education
•environmental protection legislation, including the Alaska National
Interest Lands Conservation Act.

http://books.google.com/books?id=TNu...page&q&f=false

or

http://tinyurl.com/3qkjoux


The outstanding achievement of the Carter presidency was the peace
settlement between Israel and Egypt. Over 13 days of meetings at the
presidential retreat, Camp David, Carter persuaded President Anwar
Sadat of Egypt and Prime Minister Menachem Begin of Israel to end the
31-year state of war between their countries. Egypt was the first of
Israel's Arab neighbors to make peace with the Jewish state. Israel
ended its occupation of the Sinai peninsula and returned control of
the territory to Egypt.

That was not Legislative in any sense.

President Carter also negotiated a Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty
(SALT II) with the Soviet Union, but before the Senate could vote to
ratify the treaty, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan and Carter
withdrew the treaty from consideration. The two superpowers agreed
informally to abide by the terms of the treaty, even though neither
side ever ratified it officially.

The Senate "could not vote..."

How is that a "legislative accomplishment?

It certainly does not rise to the level of "he got more done
legislatively than just about any other president" ... Your assertion.

Still waiting

Wait no longer.

2012 U.S. Election Canceled
 

On Thu, 05 May 2011 20:01:51 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 05 May 2011 16:16:56 -0700, wrote:


Whooo... Carter was responsible for the Exxon Valdez! I knew it.

He was certainly responsible for the Alaska oil fields. It was part of
his plan for energy independence ... for better or worse.
I suppose that is an accomplishment we forgot.

If he plan could have been implemented, we would be in much better
shape. A lot of progress was made, then we regressed.