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On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 22:00:42 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:43:33 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:27:29 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:18:34 -0700, wrote:

You keep saying the richest 400 people. Do you really think there are
only 400 people in the US who make more than $250K per year????

No that is about 5 million but that curve from 250k to the top 400 is
a hockey stick.

I would like to see them dump all of the Bush tax cuts but most people
only want to see the taxes go up for people who make more than they do
and assume that will fix the debt.

Dumping the tax cuts are fine eventually. Not now. Not for the middle
class. Dump them for those who make more than $250K. It's a good
start, but you deny that.

I only deny that limiting this to people who make more money than you
will not make that much difference. In this case the difference is
about 10% of the whole tax cut.

More than me? Your figures are wrong. It will make a huge difference
even if you don't want to accept that.

OK I am wrong but the FACTS are the tax on $250k will get us 70
billion a year, assuming they actually pay it (no tax avoidance
schemes)
The tax on the $250K is $300 billion a year (the total tax cut costs
$3.7T over 10 years) so it is 18.9%, not 10%

So when you look at the whole thing, assuming we went back to the
Clinton levels, it would only cover about 24.6% of the deficit.
$370B vs a $1.5T deficit)

You continually claim that the argument being made is that it'll fix
the debt. Nobody is making that claim. Another diversion and lack of
facts.

I hear it every day by guys like Bernie Sanders. They blame the whole
budget crisis on the Bush tax cuts and use platitudes like "going back
to Clinton tax rates when the budget was balanced".
I agree we should go back to the Clinton tax rates and I have said
that repeatedly. I also point out it won't make a dent in a $1.5
trillion dollar deficit.

A huge percentage of the problems can be laid at the feet of the Bush
admin. Sorry if you're not willing to admit it.

Changing the subject again?
I agree. Bush was a huge part of the problem but he had a congress
that actually spent all of that money. If the president could actually
spend money, we wouldn't have all of this shut down the government
talk.

The point is, even if there were no Bush tax cuts, we would still be
well over a trillion in the hole.($1.13T)

If Bush was a huge part of the problem, then Obama, oh and the House
Republicans need to come to a reasonable agreement about how to fix
the problem. Claiming that it all has to be fixed immediately is
nonsense, right wing fear mongering.

Even assuming your number of $70B a year is right (who knows, since
you continually make up facts). The right wing just went down to the
wire about social programs and $1B. That's so adult of them.

The $700b over 10 years is straight from CBO (the cost of the tax cut
on $250k people) and it is widely reported., You will get a dozen
hits if you google it.

They certainly have to start fixing this problem pretty soon. You do
understand, most of the $4 gas is because the world has devalued the
dollar. If we don't get a handle on this debt that will only get
worse. Why would anyone loan us money at a percent or two when the
money we will be paying them back with is losing value faster than
that. You can continue in your blissful denial but remember where you
heard it. We are rapidly approaching the tipping point and the only
solution from both sides of the aisle is borrow more money.

So, now you believe in the CBO. Previously that wasn't the case. Which
is it?

Most of the $4 gas is uncertainty driven. Sorry if that doesn't mesh
with your view of Obama and/or the Democrats.

[email protected]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:31:03 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:12:02 -0700, wrote:

Even assuming your number of $70B a year is right (who knows, since
you continually make up facts). The right wing just went down to the
wire about social programs and $1B. That's so adult of them.

The $700b over 10 years is straight from CBO (the cost of the tax cut
on $250k people) and it is widely reported., You will get a dozen
hits if you google it.

They certainly have to start fixing this problem pretty soon. You do
understand, most of the $4 gas is because the world has devalued the
dollar. If we don't get a handle on this debt that will only get
worse. Why would anyone loan us money at a percent or two when the
money we will be paying them back with is losing value faster than
that. You can continue in your blissful denial but remember where you
heard it. We are rapidly approaching the tipping point and the only
solution from both sides of the aisle is borrow more money.

So, now you believe in the CBO. Previously that wasn't the case. Which
is it?

I understand this is just a wild guess but you think everything they
say is gospel and I was talking to you.

Wow... you just flip-flopped from quoting the CBO to claiming they're
full of it. Please show me where I've ever said "everything they say"
is gospel.

Most of the $4 gas is uncertainty driven. Sorry if that doesn't mesh
with your view of Obama and/or the Democrats.

I am just repeating what the people who know more than both of us are
saying. They did back it up with numbers.
I also understand a lot of it is just speculation but some of that
speculation is also based on the value of the dollar.

Which people? Rush? I'd say listen to NPR, but they're just commies
with a secret mission to destroy this country, right?

[email protected]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 00:49:01 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:01:49 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:31:03 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:12:02 -0700, wrote:

Even assuming your number of $70B a year is right (who knows, since
you continually make up facts). The right wing just went down to the
wire about social programs and $1B. That's so adult of them.

The $700b over 10 years is straight from CBO (the cost of the tax cut
on $250k people) and it is widely reported., You will get a dozen
hits if you google it.

They certainly have to start fixing this problem pretty soon. You do
understand, most of the $4 gas is because the world has devalued the
dollar. If we don't get a handle on this debt that will only get
worse. Why would anyone loan us money at a percent or two when the
money we will be paying them back with is losing value faster than
that. You can continue in your blissful denial but remember where you
heard it. We are rapidly approaching the tipping point and the only
solution from both sides of the aisle is borrow more money.

So, now you believe in the CBO. Previously that wasn't the case. Which
is it?

I understand this is just a wild guess but you think everything they
say is gospel and I was talking to you.

Wow... you just flip-flopped from quoting the CBO to claiming they're
full of it. Please show me where I've ever said "everything they say"
is gospel.

You are just spinning now. Do you think the $700b over 10 years is
wrong? Prove it. It is the most optimistic number the CBO has.
Personally I think the money we would get is lower than that.

I wouldn't know. You love the CBO until you hate it.

Most of the $4 gas is uncertainty driven. Sorry if that doesn't mesh
with your view of Obama and/or the Democrats.

I am just repeating what the people who know more than both of us are
saying. They did back it up with numbers.
I also understand a lot of it is just speculation but some of that
speculation is also based on the value of the dollar.

Which people? Rush? I'd say listen to NPR, but they're just commies
with a secret mission to destroy this country, right?

Actually the federal reserve. They peg the dollar to a broad index of
currencies and the dollar has dropped 5% in 4 months.
Since that includes the Euro that is also in trouble it is actually
worse than that, You really need to compare it to China, India and the
emerging markets who are competing for oil with us on the world
market. China can easily throw a lot of dollars at oil. They have
ours.
Since the speculators may really buying future contracts for oil that
is still be in the ground, the value of the currency has a whole lot
to do with how high the prices get bid up. That is the speculative
part of oil prices. The only bright side of that is they frequently
guess wrong and oil prices can crash.
Do you feel lucky?

Yes, the dollar dropping is causing some problems. It's not the only
thing and prices aren't as high as they've been. Nice try.

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