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Canuck57 wrote:
On 09/04/2011 9:30 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 00:05:04 -0700, wrote:

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 01:05:50 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 19:56:54 -0700, wrote:

You've got plenty of paranoia about something that might or might not
happen in 30 years, but something that's in your face is no big deal.

The things I am worried about are happening right now. Social Security
and Medicare are in deficit today.
The job flight from the country is happening right now.
The fact that we are spending 166% of our revenue is a problem today.

I agree the congress is not addressing any of these problems
seriously, using this crisis to advance ideological agendas but I also
do not take the theater that seriously.

And their "deficit" is temporary. For example, the primary reason for
the SS deficit is low unemployment, and that will change in the next
year or so, then it's solvent for another 30 years.

You have not been paying attention have you. The projection was always
that SS would be upside down in 2017, then 16 then 15 and the later
projections were 2012-13.
Then the recession made that 2010 they HOPED they might get a year or
two of surplus but the Obama payroll tax cut torpedoed that. It will
never see a surplus again. Medicare has been upside down for quite a
while with no end in sight.

Yet, you're just fine with making that situation worse, not paying
people for weeks if not months on end. How many people will default on
their houses? How many won't be able to pay their insurance or feed
their kids, pay for college, etc., etc.

That has never happened. If these people are living so close to the
edge that they will fail of their pay check is held up a few days, it
is not a question of if they will fail, only when. What are these
military guys going to do when the war is over and the Army gives then
an "early out" like happened after Vietnam?

You and Harry keep saying the DoD budget is too high but the DoD is a
jobs program. Virtually any cut in the budget will cost someone a job.

You're just fine with all that, but zonkers paranoid about something
that may or may not happen in 30 years.

The theater is deadly serious for some people. You don't care about
them, apparently.

Since nobody in the government has ever lost a dime's pay in any of
the shut downs, no I don't really care. Some come to work, if they
really do anything important for a living, some stay home but they all
get paid.,

Which is why it isn't working. Congress needs to just issue a 3 month
temporary no-pay layoff.
While that will never happen, it would save a ton of money. Their
pensions and health care benefits are also out of control.

[email protected]

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 11:30:19 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 00:05:04 -0700, wrote:

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 01:05:50 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 19:56:54 -0700, wrote:

You've got plenty of paranoia about something that might or might not
happen in 30 years, but something that's in your face is no big deal.

The things I am worried about are happening right now. Social Security
and Medicare are in deficit today.
The job flight from the country is happening right now.
The fact that we are spending 166% of our revenue is a problem today.

I agree the congress is not addressing any of these problems
seriously, using this crisis to advance ideological agendas but I also
do not take the theater that seriously.

And their "deficit" is temporary. For example, the primary reason for
the SS deficit is low unemployment, and that will change in the next
year or so, then it's solvent for another 30 years.

You have not been paying attention have you. The projection was always
that SS would be upside down in 2017, then 16 then 15 and the later
projections were 2012-13.
Then the recession made that 2010 they HOPED they might get a year or
two of surplus but the Obama payroll tax cut torpedoed that. It will
never see a surplus again. Medicare has been upside down for quite a
while with no end in sight.

You haven't been paying attention. That's a bunch of nonsense. It's
not even close to factual.

Yet, you're just fine with making that situation worse, not paying
people for weeks if not months on end. How many people will default on
their houses? How many won't be able to pay their insurance or feed
their kids, pay for college, etc., etc.

That has never happened. If these people are living so close to the
edge that they will fail of their pay check is held up a few days, it
is not a question of if they will fail, only when. What are these
military guys going to do when the war is over and the Army gives then
an "early out" like happened after Vietnam?

You're going to claim that if there had been a shutdown of weeks or
months that wouldn't have happened? What are you sipping?

You and Harry keep saying the DoD budget is too high but the DoD is a
jobs program. Virtually any cut in the budget will cost someone a job.

So, your solution... throw them out. Good move, esp. in a recession.

You're just fine with all that, but zonkers paranoid about something
that may or may not happen in 30 years.

The theater is deadly serious for some people. You don't care about
them, apparently.

Since nobody in the government has ever lost a dime's pay in any of
the shut downs, no I don't really care. Some come to work, if they
really do anything important for a living, some stay home but they all
get paid.,

Yes, I can see you don't care.

Boating All Out

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 00:05:04 -0700, wrote:

And their "deficit" is temporary. For example, the primary reason for
the SS deficit is low unemployment, and that will change in the next
year or so, then it's solvent for another 30 years.

You have not been paying attention have you. The projection was always
that SS would be upside down in 2017, then 16 then 15 and the later
projections were 2012-13.
Then the recession made that 2010 they HOPED they might get a year or
two of surplus but the Obama payroll tax cut torpedoed that. It will
never see a surplus again. Medicare has been upside down for quite a
while with no end in sight.

SS isn't a big problem if correctly understood and addressed.
But Obama isn't helping at all.
Very bad move reducing the SS tax.
SS has its own cost/revenue stream for accounting purposes.
As the treasuries are redeemed when outflow exceeds inflow, the
SS fund will be depleted faster.
I've seen it said that when the fund is entirely depleted, SS can
still pay 75% of current benefits on SS income alone.
But that probably was based on fuller employment than current, and
certainly won't hold true at Obama's reduced SS tax rate.
Last projection I saw for SS fund zero balance was 2037.
Obama's action has knocked years off that.
This is no different than the dishonesty of the GWB tax cuts/deficit
spending or Reagan's voodoo economics.

Where are the adults?
A more cynical way of looking at these matters is that politicians know
exactly what they are doing.
Reagan and GWB figured that the population at large would accept the
rich becoming richer and the poor poorer.
GWB figured that deep debt would lead to curtailing safety net programs
as a means to deal with it.
Obama figures that nothing can hurt SS because to hurt it would be
fostering rebellion against those who attempt it.

If that's true I think they were all correct in their "figuring."
The real problem is the 2-party system.
Doesn't work any more.
Too much time spent with schoolyard feuds, and little common sense.

Paul Ryan is a good example of no common sense.
Wants to kill Medicare and replace it with vouchers to pay insurance
companies for health insurance.
Now I ask you.
What insurance company wants to insure old people?
What's the premium for a 70 year old?
$50k a year with a $20k deductable?
Man, this guy is in for some hurting when his "plan" gets analyzed.
He's a real dope millionaire.
I've already heard some economists are saying his plan will add to the
deficit too. Written by "The Club for Growth" supposedly.
All this whining from Ryan and his millionaire ilk about debt being bad
for "the grandchildren", but maybe they don't worry about their
grandchildren paying $50k insurance premiums when they become old folks?
The nonsense and hypocrisy I see is hilarious.
Like I say, where are the adults?

Canuck57[_9_]

On 09/04/2011 12:11 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 00:05:04 -0700, wrote:

And their "deficit" is temporary. For example, the primary reason for
the SS deficit is low unemployment, and that will change in the next
year or so, then it's solvent for another 30 years.

You have not been paying attention have you. The projection was always
that SS would be upside down in 2017, then 16 then 15 and the later
projections were 2012-13.
Then the recession made that 2010 they HOPED they might get a year or
two of surplus but the Obama payroll tax cut torpedoed that. It will
never see a surplus again. Medicare has been upside down for quite a
while with no end in sight.

SS isn't a big problem if correctly understood and addressed.
But Obama isn't helping at all.
Very bad move reducing the SS tax.
SS has its own cost/revenue stream for accounting purposes.
As the treasuries are redeemed when outflow exceeds inflow, the
SS fund will be depleted faster.
I've seen it said that when the fund is entirely depleted, SS can
still pay 75% of current benefits on SS income alone.
But that probably was based on fuller employment than current, and
certainly won't hold true at Obama's reduced SS tax rate.
Last projection I saw for SS fund zero balance was 2037.
Obama's action has knocked years off that.
This is no different than the dishonesty of the GWB tax cuts/deficit
spending or Reagan's voodoo economics.

Where are the adults?
A more cynical way of looking at these matters is that politicians know
exactly what they are doing.
Reagan and GWB figured that the population at large would accept the
rich becoming richer and the poor poorer.
GWB figured that deep debt would lead to curtailing safety net programs
as a means to deal with it.
Obama figures that nothing can hurt SS because to hurt it would be
fostering rebellion against those who attempt it.

If that's true I think they were all correct in their "figuring."
The real problem is the 2-party system.
Doesn't work any more.
Too much time spent with schoolyard feuds, and little common sense.

Paul Ryan is a good example of no common sense.
Wants to kill Medicare and replace it with vouchers to pay insurance
companies for health insurance.
Now I ask you.
What insurance company wants to insure old people?
What's the premium for a 70 year old?
$50k a year with a $20k deductable?
Man, this guy is in for some hurting when his "plan" gets analyzed.
He's a real dope millionaire.
I've already heard some economists are saying his plan will add to the
deficit too. Written by "The Club for Growth" supposedly.
All this whining from Ryan and his millionaire ilk about debt being bad
for "the grandchildren", but maybe they don't worry about their
grandchildren paying $50k insurance premiums when they become old folks?
The nonsense and hypocrisy I see is hilarious.
Like I say, where are the adults?

People should look at CCP (Canada) and SS (USA) as employment tax. It
isn't in your name, it isn't in your account and certainly isn't in your
control.

Government uses this money in money/value loosing investments and has
been routinely raiding them for man decades. The result is the funds
are just derated to more government debt.

From a pension perspective, people better plan on in my name, in my
account under my exclusive control. The rest is horse sh!t. People in
Canada planning CPP as a life find out the hard way, it is poverty.

Best advice I can give younger people is more money in your pocket today
is worth more than a 10x BS future promise from government. The whole
pension thing is a huge fraud. Now that the debt welshers in DC have to
pay, they want to welsh. Screwing their own people for government
GREED. Priceless. Just wait until the fat mama saying Obama is going
to pay for here gas wakes up and smells the coffee. Governemtn will get
around to screwing everybody but the chosen elite.

Modern government and taxation has turned out to be modern day slavery.

Paul Ryan is common sense, but to be honest he does not have the support
of others that are greedy, scared and chicken sh!t to do the right
thing. Cowards. Greedy, envious selfish cowards as you know the
senators and congress people are getting back room calls on this.
Easier to sellout USA than to stand up for what is right.

Far too much corruption in DC.

Time to write them off as debt welshers. DC, just a parasite.

[email protected]

On Sat, 9 Apr 2011 13:11:28 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 00:05:04 -0700, wrote:

And their "deficit" is temporary. For example, the primary reason for
the SS deficit is low unemployment, and that will change in the next
year or so, then it's solvent for another 30 years.

You have not been paying attention have you. The projection was always
that SS would be upside down in 2017, then 16 then 15 and the later
projections were 2012-13.
Then the recession made that 2010 they HOPED they might get a year or
two of surplus but the Obama payroll tax cut torpedoed that. It will
never see a surplus again. Medicare has been upside down for quite a
while with no end in sight.

SS isn't a big problem if correctly understood and addressed.
But Obama isn't helping at all.
Very bad move reducing the SS tax.
SS has its own cost/revenue stream for accounting purposes.
As the treasuries are redeemed when outflow exceeds inflow, the
SS fund will be depleted faster.
I've seen it said that when the fund is entirely depleted, SS can
still pay 75% of current benefits on SS income alone.
But that probably was based on fuller employment than current, and
certainly won't hold true at Obama's reduced SS tax rate.
Last projection I saw for SS fund zero balance was 2037.
Obama's action has knocked years off that.
This is no different than the dishonesty of the GWB tax cuts/deficit
spending or Reagan's voodoo economics.

Where are the adults?
A more cynical way of looking at these matters is that politicians know
exactly what they are doing.
Reagan and GWB figured that the population at large would accept the
rich becoming richer and the poor poorer.
GWB figured that deep debt would lead to curtailing safety net programs
as a means to deal with it.
Obama figures that nothing can hurt SS because to hurt it would be
fostering rebellion against those who attempt it.

If that's true I think they were all correct in their "figuring."
The real problem is the 2-party system.
Doesn't work any more.
Too much time spent with schoolyard feuds, and little common sense.

Paul Ryan is a good example of no common sense.
Wants to kill Medicare and replace it with vouchers to pay insurance
companies for health insurance.
Now I ask you.
What insurance company wants to insure old people?
What's the premium for a 70 year old?
$50k a year with a $20k deductable?
Man, this guy is in for some hurting when his "plan" gets analyzed.
He's a real dope millionaire.
I've already heard some economists are saying his plan will add to the
deficit too. Written by "The Club for Growth" supposedly.
All this whining from Ryan and his millionaire ilk about debt being bad
for "the grandchildren", but maybe they don't worry about their
grandchildren paying $50k insurance premiums when they become old folks?
The nonsense and hypocrisy I see is hilarious.
Like I say, where are the adults?

I thought reducing the SS tax was a bad idea as well. I think the
rationale is that it puts more money in people's hands when they need
it, but it's a tepid way of doing it.

[email protected]

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 23:32:26 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 9 Apr 2011 13:11:28 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Last projection I saw for SS fund zero balance was 2037.

That all assumes the US has the money to redeem those treasuries.
Right now they would have to borrow every penny again from someone
else to cash those bonds. How is that not
upside down"?

Only the government can call a debt they have no way of paying, an
asset.

Only right wing nuts think a crisis that might happen in 30 years has
to be fixed in the current hard economic times.

Boating All Out

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 9 Apr 2011 13:11:28 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Last projection I saw for SS fund zero balance was 2037.

That all assumes the US has the money to redeem those treasuries.

Some tens of billions were redeemed last year.
Looks like "having the money" is a good assumption.
Pretty neat. The world hasn't ended.
Let's see who tries to cut off or reduce SS checks.
Get the popcorn ready.

Only the government can call a debt they have no way of paying, an
asset.

Never heard the SS fund called an asset.
Never heard the government can't pay its debt.
You just make all that up? Sell it to a dope, not me.
Sadly, that kind of talk reminds me of right wing ideologues talking
about "scary future SS obligations" without counting the SS revenue
stream in their total.
They do it all the time.
Like I said, SS isn't a difficult problem - except for right wing
ideologues.
The SS fund has accumulated a bit over over $2 trillion in government
debt. It will take about $80 billion a year in other tax revenues to
pay that off in 26 years.
That's assuming there's no upturn in the economy and SS revenues, which
would boost the fund or reduce fund redemption.
Far less yearly than Iraq and Afghanistan are currently costing.
And probably less in total.
Even that dope Paul Ryan didn't address SS.
I think you're smarter than him, but you have to prove it.
Adults will come to the fore to extend the SS trust fund.
Mostly on the revenue side I expect.
In the meantime checks will keep coming as the government pays off the
debt to SS recipients.

Canuck57[_9_]

On 08/04/2011 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 19:56:54 -0700, wrote:

You've got plenty of paranoia about something that might or might not
happen in 30 years, but something that's in your face is no big deal.

The things I am worried about are happening right now. Social Security
and Medicare are in deficit today.
The job flight from the country is happening right now.
The fact that we are spending 166% of our revenue is a problem today.

I agree the congress is not addressing any of these problems
seriously, using this crisis to advance ideological agendas but I also
do not take the theater that seriously.

This story is unfolding like "The Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs".

When the goose dies, there will be nothing.

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