Remember, there are those who do, and those who teach (lecture)

Feel free to see paragraph two of my recently posted manifesto :^)


In article ,
(Florida Keyz) wrote:

Remember, there are those who do, and those who teach (lecture)

Opps... Never mind...

In article ,
(Florida Keyz) wrote:

Remember, there are those who do, and those who teach (lecture)

Dionysus,
BTW - did you girlfriend have a pair of nylons along? They are useful
as an emergency engine belt. Something to keep in mind for the future.
Paul

"Dionysus Feldman" wrote in message
...
Fredo--
After all of that I can't believe no one has recommended this guy sign up
for a power squadrons course or USCG boater's course
somewhere. We all had to start somewhere and most of us were extremely
unknowledgeable at some point in our boating past.
I agree this guy was very lucky.
But let's steer him in the right direction so he does not become another
"statistic".

df--

I appreciate the advice. I don't appreciate the flames. The one
rational piece of advice was the GPS, so that we could identify our
position better. The rest was "you're an idiot for taking any risk,"
which isn't very useful. I hope you all feel better.

In my defense, boats have been crossing Lake Michigan safely before GPS
was invented, and boats with radios and flares are almost invariably
found quickly in good weather. In fact, one of my GF's relatives
navigated across the lake in a bathtub with just a compass.

That said, I did have my lucky hat on.

We will be taking a Power Squadron or Coast Guard class this winter.
They're 40 minutes to an hour drive each way but worth the effort. My
main concern is my travel schedule (I'm away a lot on business), so we
have to find one long class, or a stretch of time where I can attend
several weeks in a row (not likely).

For what it's worth, I have passed two on-line boating classes
boatsafe.com and Boatus.org.

My GF did have a place for us in Hammond Indiana -- not far from Chicago
Harbor, if we couldn't find one in Chicago. And Chicago is visible for
many miles into the lake.

Fog: There wasn't a wisp of cloud cover for Saturday and Sunday, nor was
there anything on Doppler anywhere close to us. It was bright and sunny
and warm from the moment we started until the moment we stopped. We had
rain predicted for Monday, which hit on schedule. What I didn't know
was that the "under 1 foot" predictions were for the near-shore areas,
within 5 miles of the coast, and that farther out the waves would be
unpredictable.

PS: three beers in three hours for a 200lb man is not exactly pounding
them down. I wasn't driving at that point either.

Bob,
Excellent post and very good advise.
Paul

"Bob D." wrote in message
...
DF I agree with Barry. Your shared your experiences and I feel that
exactly the exchange thats needed so we all can benefit and be better
boaters. In some ways your story reminds me of my first powerboat
expidition. That consisted of my brother and I takin a 16 foot bayliner
cuddy (85 HP outboard) across Lake Erie, up the Detroit river to WIndsor
Ontario.

There are quite a few people who will fire off a smart-ass remark without
giving one iota constructive advice. Some may be socially crippled
individuals who are expressing concern with what you did, but may not be
tactful in their response. Perhaps I fit that label. Some really just
want to show the world how clever they can be. Unfortunately, too many of
those people are turning this group into a pile of sh*t already.

I also think that your mechanical failure could have happened to anyone at
anytime. An extra belt may have saved you some trouble but not everyone
carries redundant everything. Many will argue that the boat should have
had the wearable items replaced, and that may be so. But I don't think
that eliminates any malfunction that could occur oon open water.

But DF, don't let the overall opinion of the responses to your post elude
you.
That general consensus is theat you were grossly ill prepared for your
outing.

I don't care how the weather was for weeks before, I don't care how many
boats have crossed Lake Michigan safely with little or no navigational
equipment. It's not an excuse for how ill prepared you were. Things can
happen to delay you, and in that time weather can change. Running across
a known compass heading without charts may be acceptable, but what if you
have to change course (and you did) do you know where your going? Do you
know what dangers are in your path? With your boat did you know you
average fuel consumption/boat range under ideal conditions? Did you know
what it was in less than perfect conditions. Foregoing experience on
your boat and/or information on the region you are boating in (in the form
of charts or GPS) just because the weather is nice is a decission that
will eventually get you in serious trouble if you plan to venture away
from shore with any regularity. Luck *CAN* get you across the lake in a
bath tub, but I'd hate to depend upon it.

Here is my rule of thumb: Be prepared, the longer the course leg I am
traversing over open waters, the more prepared and cautious I will try to
become. This includes, but is not limited to keeping extra equipment,
parts, and provisions (this means food and drink), having a familiarity
of source, destination and places in between, giving myself ample time to
arrive at port, and knowing what my boat is and is not capable of doing.

Even before my first powerboat trip five years ago, I had been a crew
member on a boat on the Great Lakes throughout the majority of my life.
I already had experienced sailing 60 miles from Cleveland to Sandusky
(followed shore hence the distance). Sailed through storms (So during
that twice yearly 60 mile trek).

For this trip I had been traveling on a boat I had used all season. I had
charts, VHF, extra spark plugs, extra gas, and left with twice the
daylight time I needed to reach my destination. I had waypoints
programmed in for every port along the northwest shore of Lake Erie (and
waypoints programmed in for hazzards such as Camp Perry), in case
something went wrong, or I was low on fuel. And that was just traversing
less than 30 miles of open water. As a result we were able to wash up in
the lake, leisurely go up the Detroit, refuel, register with customs, and
tie up a full hour before sunset. Was I prepared for every contingency?
No, but I was probably sufficiently prepared for most things that I have
control over.

Taking safe boating classes online or otherwise is a good start. But it
won't substitute being prepared in other ways. It can't help with the
familiarity of one's vessel, nor will it substitute for experience with
the route you're traversing. I have a few eggheadfriends who honestly
think reading a book or taking a class can fully prepare them for whats
out there, thankfully they've never expressed interest in being more than
a passenger. Don't let the arrogance that comes with completing these
courses set you up for a big problem.

Too many people go out taking the water for granted and assuming nothing
will go wrong only to become a byte on the local news. Do't let that
happen to you. Be proud of your boating accomplishment, but take your
medicine from boaters who care for doing something less than smart, and
learn from it to do better next time. IMHO you seem to have the right
boating spirit, now temper that spirit with a little common sense.

Best of luck!!!

Bob Dimond

P.S. Why Dionysus????

Thanks Paul.



Bob,
Excellent post and very good advise.
Paul

"Dionysus Feldman" wrote in message
...
Fredo--
After all of that I can't believe no one has recommended this guy sign up
for a power squadrons course or USCG boater's course
somewhere. We all had to start somewhere and most of us were extremely
unknowledgeable at some point in our boating past.
I agree this guy was very lucky.
But let's steer him in the right direction so he does not become another
"statistic".

df--

I appreciate the advice. I don't appreciate the flames. The one
rational piece of advice was the GPS, so that we could identify our
position better. The rest was "you're an idiot for taking any risk,"
which isn't very useful. I hope you all feel better.

In my defense, boats have been crossing Lake Michigan safely before GPS
was invented, and boats with radios and flares are almost invariably
found quickly in good weather. In fact, one of my GF's relatives
navigated across the lake in a bathtub with just a compass.

That said, I did have my lucky hat on.

We will be taking a Power Squadron or Coast Guard class this winter.
They're 40 minutes to an hour drive each way but worth the effort. My
main concern is my travel schedule (I'm away a lot on business), so we
have to find one long class, or a stretch of time where I can attend
several weeks in a row (not likely).

For what it's worth, I have passed two on-line boating classes
boatsafe.com and Boatus.org.

My GF did have a place for us in Hammond Indiana -- not far from Chicago
Harbor, if we couldn't find one in Chicago. And Chicago is visible for
many miles into the lake.

Fog: There wasn't a wisp of cloud cover for Saturday and Sunday, nor was
there anything on Doppler anywhere close to us. It was bright and sunny
and warm from the moment we started until the moment we stopped. We had
rain predicted for Monday, which hit on schedule. What I didn't know
was that the "under 1 foot" predictions were for the near-shore areas,
within 5 miles of the coast, and that farther out the waves would be
unpredictable.

PS: three beers in three hours for a 200lb man is not exactly pounding
them down. I wasn't driving at that point either.

You survived. At least that part of the learning curve is good. A lot of
the flames were well deserved. You were totally unprepared for taking a
boat out on big water. This is not a cruise on the local lake that is 5
miles long and 2 miles wide. This is a body of water that rates as one of
the most dangerous in the world. The seas on the Great Lakes can be worse
than the North Sea in winter. I grew up on the water in San Francisco area,
and learned a respect for the water at a young age, with family friends not
surviving an accident in the bay. This weekend, some other unprepared souls
went out of Halfmoon Bay harbor locally. They tried to fish the local reef
and got capsized. 14' boat, but the area can and has wrecked much larger
boats. This is a reef that can generate 60' surf. Look at the Quicksilver
big water competition and you can see the reef in it's winter glory. July,
can be a flat millpond. Do not fully trust the weather forecast. Look at
the weather with a jaded eye. As a person that has found a drowning victim,
I wish that on no one, and hope you can learn before becoming a statistic.
Bill

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:31:09 -0400,
(Dionysus Feldman) wrote:

Background: We bought our 1977 Sea Ray SRV two weeks ago. She has a new
bilge pump and steering cables; while the steering cables were installed
we had the bellows checked and the engine compression tested (both were
fine). She has a fish finder, VHF radio, flares, running lights, PFDs,
fenders, lines, etc.

snipped

DF- I don't support the flames, as I would hope that we would help to
educate and support each other. It's unlikely that anyone learns
anything from humiliation, except to never tell their experience
again.

I'm happy that you you and your SO had "an experience", and that you
arrived safely home. By now, I am sure that you are aware that you
need to take more stringent safety precautions, and understand the
value of GPS.

Your trip was not safe, but you survived it, and (I hope) learned from
it. Your next trip will be better, and safer. I'll bet on it.
Regards,
....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.