7 more captured by pirates..
 

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:55:38 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 18:12:02 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 17:17:20 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:40:25 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

On 2/28/11 1:37 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Lil Abner" wrote in message ...

On 2/28/2011 11:02 AM, I_am_Tosk wrote:


And this boat has three children. It's time for this to stop. The Navy
needs to storm this boat. If the innocents are killed they need to
identify the pirates, which town they are from in Somali, and eliminate
it. I guarantee you do this a couple of times, and the Somalis
themselves will put a stop to it...
Somehow it is more civilized to let the drama continue. That there is a
Global government etc that should deal with piracy as a crime with due
process and Pirates rights.
We have the resources to locate these people on the oceans.
Sink them without asking them, about their troubled childhoods, poor
villages back home, and their hopes and aspirations.
Somalia is a trouble region and really is no civilized government in
control of anything their gnp is probably all from piracy.
Let the military deal with them as they deem wise and necessary, on the
spot and no recriminations from Washington etc.
No trials. Once the victims are free, put the pirates back on the mother
or pirate ship and sink it.
Close their ports and destroy them. they might get upset...well the
victims are upset and the rest of the world is tired of it.


Reply:
Solution to the piracy. Limit the fishing to within 100 miles of the
shore. If a Somali boat is outside the 100 miles, they sink and die.
When the Somali's decide that piracy is not worth the problems, then
they can fish further out. If the pirates capture a boat inside the 100
miles, is the boats problem. They kill hostages while in Somalia, then
figure how who had gotten rich in the last 5 years and kill them.



Under International Law, I doubt you can do that. How are you going to
legally restrict access to the high seas?


It is called a blockade, unless you are JFK, then it is an embargo.

I guarantee you, as soon as they get a terror connection, this will
escalate and I think that in imminent. Unfortunately for us, the rule
is "first punch is free" so we won't do anything until we have a
serious attack traced back to this money.

Really... you're going to blockage the entire Somali coast. I bet that
will be cheap!

The blockade was not my idea, fight that one out with Tosk., I was
just saying if we wanted to we could.

You seem to be supporting that nonsense.

I don't get into a fight with someone who's mentally unarmed.

7 more captured by pirates..
 

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:59:58 -0500, wrote:

PS, nothing about piracy is off topic. Piracy, by definition, is all
about boats.


That is particularly true with blue water sailors like you. There are
really Caribbean pirates too, just not as many.
How much thought do you give that when you are plotting courses?

There is very little, almost no, "on water" piracy in the Caribbean.
Some of the islands have an on land/harbor crime problem however, and
others have a dinghy theft problem. There are cruising discussion
groups and other web sites that speak to these issues. We also talk
to other cruisers along the way and get the latest scuttlebut on what
is going on. One island that got mentioned a lot is St Vincent in the
Windward Islands. On the advice of others, we did not stop. Too bad
since there are several nice looking harbors.

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/...ean-crime-wave

Carrying weapons is problematic because the regulations vary widely
from island to island, and violations are dealt with severely. We
did carry two 25 millimeter "signaling devices" however and several
cannisters of "bear spray". It is legal to carry weapons onboard in
the Bahamas as long as they and the ammo are properly declared on
entry. We've never felt the need however, very friendly folks for the
most part.

7 more captured by pirates..
 

In article ,
says...
The problem is the cost and time on station. We need a base within
operating range of the area. A predator costs about $4.5 million and has
a 24 hour fuel load before it becomes an anchor. They have a 2000 mile
radius but that means you have to get it there, do you operating and
then get back to land. And, with a 135 MPH you would need to have
several aloft at a time.

I still say profiling is the answer. You have profilers that know the
fishing grounds and patterns. We can watch a lot of vessels in theater.
When you see "fishing boats" that are not following the profile, or are
suspect based on that profile, you put a couple extra sets of eyes on
them. If they launch out small skiffs or show themselves moving away
from a fishing area toward a ship, or shipping area, you start to move
an asset like predator drone closer and watch them more. If you see that
skiff moving toward another vessel, and then get a SOS from that vessel,
you can pretty much just let that predator vaporize the skiffs before
they get off that first RPG, and then go address the mother ship, and
address I mean vaporize them too...

Any skiff or open boat more than 100 miles from shore will be summarily
sunk.

7 more captured by pirates..
 

On 3/1/11 7:39 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...
The problem is the cost and time on station. We need a base within
operating range of the area. A predator costs about $4.5 million and has
a 24 hour fuel load before it becomes an anchor. They have a 2000 mile
radius but that means you have to get it there, do you operating and
then get back to land. And, with a 135 MPH you would need to have
several aloft at a time.

I still say profiling is the answer. You have profilers that know the
fishing grounds and patterns. We can watch a lot of vessels in theater.
When you see "fishing boats" that are not following the profile, or are
suspect based on that profile, you put a couple extra sets of eyes on
them. If they launch out small skiffs or show themselves moving away
from a fishing area toward a ship, or shipping area, you start to move
an asset like predator drone closer and watch them more. If you see that
skiff moving toward another vessel, and then get a SOS from that vessel,
you can pretty much just let that predator vaporize the skiffs before
they get off that first RPG, and then go address the mother ship, and
address I mean vaporize them too...

Any skiff or open boat more than 100 miles from shore will be summarily
sunk.




That's just stupid.

7 more captured by pirates..
 

In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 3/1/11 7:39 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...
The problem is the cost and time on station. We need a base within
operating range of the area. A predator costs about $4.5 million and has
a 24 hour fuel load before it becomes an anchor. They have a 2000 mile
radius but that means you have to get it there, do you operating and
then get back to land. And, with a 135 MPH you would need to have
several aloft at a time.

I still say profiling is the answer. You have profilers that know the
fishing grounds and patterns. We can watch a lot of vessels in theater.
When you see "fishing boats" that are not following the profile, or are
suspect based on that profile, you put a couple extra sets of eyes on
them. If they launch out small skiffs or show themselves moving away
from a fishing area toward a ship, or shipping area, you start to move
an asset like predator drone closer and watch them more. If you see that
skiff moving toward another vessel, and then get a SOS from that vessel,
you can pretty much just let that predator vaporize the skiffs before
they get off that first RPG, and then go address the mother ship, and
address I mean vaporize them too...

Any skiff or open boat more than 100 miles from shore will be summarily
sunk.




That's just stupid.

What is your proposal?

7 more captured by pirates..
 

On 3/1/11 7:54 AM, BAR wrote:
In articlepc2dnY5yOPDxdPHQnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 3/1/11 7:39 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...
The problem is the cost and time on station. We need a base within
operating range of the area. A predator costs about $4.5 million and has
a 24 hour fuel load before it becomes an anchor. They have a 2000 mile
radius but that means you have to get it there, do you operating and
then get back to land. And, with a 135 MPH you would need to have
several aloft at a time.

I still say profiling is the answer. You have profilers that know the
fishing grounds and patterns. We can watch a lot of vessels in theater.
When you see "fishing boats" that are not following the profile, or are
suspect based on that profile, you put a couple extra sets of eyes on
them. If they launch out small skiffs or show themselves moving away
from a fishing area toward a ship, or shipping area, you start to move
an asset like predator drone closer and watch them more. If you see that
skiff moving toward another vessel, and then get a SOS from that vessel,
you can pretty much just let that predator vaporize the skiffs before
they get off that first RPG, and then go address the mother ship, and
address I mean vaporize them too...

Any skiff or open boat more than 100 miles from shore will be summarily
sunk.




That's just stupid.

What is your proposal?



I've told you; *I* don't pretend to have a solution for the Somali
piracy problem. My suggestion was that we need to get more nations
involved in patrols so that there are more "assets" keeping watch.
Whatever we do, though, has to fall within the limitations of
international law. We are not a rogue state.

I am sure our state department and military discuss the piracy issue
regularly with their colleagues in other nations. I doubt the ideas of a
former marine reservist who never attended college or even got an
overseas posting are of much interest.

7 more captured by pirates..
 

On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:54:35 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article , payer3389
says...

On 3/1/11 7:39 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...
The problem is the cost and time on station. We need a base within
operating range of the area. A predator costs about $4.5 million and has
a 24 hour fuel load before it becomes an anchor. They have a 2000 mile
radius but that means you have to get it there, do you operating and
then get back to land. And, with a 135 MPH you would need to have
several aloft at a time.

I still say profiling is the answer. You have profilers that know the
fishing grounds and patterns. We can watch a lot of vessels in theater.
When you see "fishing boats" that are not following the profile, or are
suspect based on that profile, you put a couple extra sets of eyes on
them. If they launch out small skiffs or show themselves moving away
from a fishing area toward a ship, or shipping area, you start to move
an asset like predator drone closer and watch them more. If you see that
skiff moving toward another vessel, and then get a SOS from that vessel,
you can pretty much just let that predator vaporize the skiffs before
they get off that first RPG, and then go address the mother ship, and
address I mean vaporize them too...

Any skiff or open boat more than 100 miles from shore will be summarily
sunk.




That's just stupid.

What is your proposal?


I'd make it 102 miles, just in case their gps's broke. That's a much more humane
way to approach the problem.

7 more captured by pirates..
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:39:28 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...
The problem is the cost and time on station. We need a base within
operating range of the area. A predator costs about $4.5 million and has
a 24 hour fuel load before it becomes an anchor. They have a 2000 mile
radius but that means you have to get it there, do you operating and
then get back to land. And, with a 135 MPH you would need to have
several aloft at a time.

I still say profiling is the answer. You have profilers that know the
fishing grounds and patterns. We can watch a lot of vessels in theater.
When you see "fishing boats" that are not following the profile, or are
suspect based on that profile, you put a couple extra sets of eyes on
them. If they launch out small skiffs or show themselves moving away
from a fishing area toward a ship, or shipping area, you start to move
an asset like predator drone closer and watch them more. If you see that
skiff moving toward another vessel, and then get a SOS from that vessel,
you can pretty much just let that predator vaporize the skiffs before
they get off that first RPG, and then go address the mother ship, and
address I mean vaporize them too...

Any skiff or open boat more than 100 miles from shore will be summarily
sunk.



You could even refine that and say "in the shipping lanes". Let
fishermen have 99.% of the ocean and block off the lanes where the
ships go. That would also make your surveillance requirements less.

We don't seem to have problems declaring "no fly zones" in sovereign
countries, why not declare "merchant ship only" zones. If Wayne wants
to sail there, he files a float plan and he can go. In fact there
would be people watching out for him.

I bet the owner of that super tanker would be very happy to spend the
extra few minutes filing a float plan in exchange for being in
protected waters

And it would be even easier if they profiled too. For instance if you
know where the usual productive fishing areas are, you can assume boats
there are fishing... Don't run the shipping lanes there. Have the ships
moving check in and out as BAR suggested. If you all of a sudden have a
fishing boat, in an area not known for any decent fishing at all, or
moving toward the shipping lanes, check them out a bit.. Maybe keep an
eye on them or let them know you are curious about their activity. This
could be done in several unobtrusive ways I would imagine, in the even
they are serious fishermen looking for new grounds...

7 more captured by pirates..
 

On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:45:56 -0500, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:39:28 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...
The problem is the cost and time on station. We need a base within
operating range of the area. A predator costs about $4.5 million and has
a 24 hour fuel load before it becomes an anchor. They have a 2000 mile
radius but that means you have to get it there, do you operating and
then get back to land. And, with a 135 MPH you would need to have
several aloft at a time.

I still say profiling is the answer. You have profilers that know the
fishing grounds and patterns. We can watch a lot of vessels in theater.
When you see "fishing boats" that are not following the profile, or are
suspect based on that profile, you put a couple extra sets of eyes on
them. If they launch out small skiffs or show themselves moving away
from a fishing area toward a ship, or shipping area, you start to move
an asset like predator drone closer and watch them more. If you see that
skiff moving toward another vessel, and then get a SOS from that vessel,
you can pretty much just let that predator vaporize the skiffs before
they get off that first RPG, and then go address the mother ship, and
address I mean vaporize them too...

Any skiff or open boat more than 100 miles from shore will be summarily
sunk.



You could even refine that and say "in the shipping lanes". Let
fishermen have 99.% of the ocean and block off the lanes where the
ships go. That would also make your surveillance requirements less.

We don't seem to have problems declaring "no fly zones" in sovereign
countries, why not declare "merchant ship only" zones. If Wayne wants
to sail there, he files a float plan and he can go. In fact there
would be people watching out for him.

I bet the owner of that super tanker would be very happy to spend the
extra few minutes filing a float plan in exchange for being in
protected waters

And it would be even easier if they profiled too. For instance if you
know where the usual productive fishing areas are, you can assume boats
there are fishing... Don't run the shipping lanes there. Have the ships
moving check in and out as BAR suggested. If you all of a sudden have a
fishing boat, in an area not known for any decent fishing at all, or
moving toward the shipping lanes, check them out a bit.. Maybe keep an
eye on them or let them know you are curious about their activity. This
could be done in several unobtrusive ways I would imagine, in the even
they are serious fishermen looking for new grounds...

Shoot, I think a few .50 cal tracers over their bow would be plenty unobtrusive.

7 more captured by pirates..
 

In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 3/1/11 7:54 AM, BAR wrote:
In articlepc2dnY5yOPDxdPHQnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 3/1/11 7:39 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...
The problem is the cost and time on station. We need a base within
operating range of the area. A predator costs about $4.5 million and has
a 24 hour fuel load before it becomes an anchor. They have a 2000 mile
radius but that means you have to get it there, do you operating and
then get back to land. And, with a 135 MPH you would need to have
several aloft at a time.

I still say profiling is the answer. You have profilers that know the
fishing grounds and patterns. We can watch a lot of vessels in theater.
When you see "fishing boats" that are not following the profile, or are
suspect based on that profile, you put a couple extra sets of eyes on
them. If they launch out small skiffs or show themselves moving away
from a fishing area toward a ship, or shipping area, you start to move
an asset like predator drone closer and watch them more. If you see that
skiff moving toward another vessel, and then get a SOS from that vessel,
you can pretty much just let that predator vaporize the skiffs before
they get off that first RPG, and then go address the mother ship, and
address I mean vaporize them too...

Any skiff or open boat more than 100 miles from shore will be summarily
sunk.




That's just stupid.

What is your proposal?



I've told you; *I* don't pretend to have a solution for the Somali
piracy problem. My suggestion was that we need to get more nations
involved in patrols so that there are more "assets" keeping watch.
Whatever we do, though, has to fall within the limitations of
international law. We are not a rogue state.

Your suggestion is vague, stupid and devoid of content.

I am sure our state department and military discuss the piracy issue
regularly with their colleagues in other nations. I doubt the ideas of a
former marine reservist who never attended college or even got an
overseas posting are of much interest.

I don't think Obama, Clinton or Holder really care about the piracy
issue except that it is a public relations issue. They see it as
corporate America getting what's coming to them from an ass backwards
nation.