On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:03:59 -0800, jps wrote:

Any time oil/gas prices go up, it becomes very popular to think that
there is some vast conspiracy behind it. Who's fault is it when
prices go the other way as they sometimes do? There are vast numbers
of middle men involved in the production, distribution, refining and
transportation of oil. If they think prices are going up in the near
future because of a posible shortage, they do the same thing that you
and I would do, and try to buy more right now. The only collusion
involved is supply and demand.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, reserves are going up at the
same time price is going up. That's not supply and demand.

Of course it is. The reserves are created by people buying in
advance of actual need in expectation that supplies may be tighter at
a later date and/or prices higher. There is no big tank labeled
reserves. It is the sum total of inventory on hand.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:12:42 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:03:59 -0800, jps wrote:

Any time oil/gas prices go up, it becomes very popular to think that
there is some vast conspiracy behind it. Who's fault is it when
prices go the other way as they sometimes do? There are vast numbers
of middle men involved in the production, distribution, refining and
transportation of oil. If they think prices are going up in the near
future because of a posible shortage, they do the same thing that you
and I would do, and try to buy more right now. The only collusion
involved is supply and demand.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, reserves are going up at the
same time price is going up. That's not supply and demand.

Of course it is. The reserves are created by people buying in
advance of actual need in expectation that supplies may be tighter at
a later date and/or prices higher. There is no big tank labeled
reserves. It is the sum total of inventory on hand.

That's a bunch of crap. Those markets are manipulated as are the
stock prices you hold so dear. Let's see how much you like 'em when
they take the next dump.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:29:11 -0800, jps wrote:

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, reserves are going up at the
same time price is going up. That's not supply and demand.

Of course it is. The reserves are created by people buying in
advance of actual need in expectation that supplies may be tighter at
a later date and/or prices higher. There is no big tank labeled
reserves. It is the sum total of inventory on hand.

That's a bunch of crap. Those markets are manipulated as are the
stock prices you hold so dear. Let's see how much you like 'em when
they take the next dump.

Let's see if I understand this. When asset prices are moving in a
direction that is favorable to you, it's because you are a shrewd
investor and money manager. When values move in an unfavorable
direction it is because you are being manipulated?

Thanks, think I've got it now.

On Mar 1, 7:41*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:29:11 -0800, jps wrote:
As was mentioned earlier in this thread, reserves are going up at the
same time price is going up. *That's not supply and demand.

Of course it is. * The reserves are created by people buying in
advance of actual need in expectation that supplies may be tighter at
a later date and/or prices higher. * *There is no big tank labeled
reserves. *It is the sum total of inventory on hand.

That's a bunch of crap. *Those markets are manipulated as are the
stock prices you hold so dear. *Let's see how much you like 'em when
they take the next dump.

Let's see if I understand this. * When asset prices are moving in a
direction that is favorable to you, it's because you are a shrewd
investor and money manager. * When values move in an unfavorable
direction it is because you are being manipulated?

Thanks, think I've got it now.

Wayne, i always thought that if all goes well for you then it was by
your own hand, but if it crumbles it's somebody else's fault.

i think that's how it usually works.

?;^ )

On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:41:00 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:29:11 -0800, jps wrote:

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, reserves are going up at the
same time price is going up. That's not supply and demand.

Of course it is. The reserves are created by people buying in
advance of actual need in expectation that supplies may be tighter at
a later date and/or prices higher. There is no big tank labeled
reserves. It is the sum total of inventory on hand.

That's a bunch of crap. Those markets are manipulated as are the
stock prices you hold so dear. Let's see how much you like 'em when
they take the next dump.

Let's see if I understand this. When asset prices are moving in a
direction that is favorable to you, it's because you are a shrewd
investor and money manager. When values move in an unfavorable
direction it is because you are being manipulated?

Thanks, think I've got it now.

You must be projecting or you're putting words in my mouth. I know
more about the equity markets than you'll ever know. Most of the
valuations are bogus and financial reports are manipulated to match
the analysts expectations. The books are prepared to support the
message, not reality.

It's a rigged game that favors those with the tools to predict and the
resources to manipulate.

You still think Wall Street is a safe gamble? You'd be better off in
a casino betting on craps. Smart people took their cash out of the
market in the late 1990s and never put it back in.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have a boat to live on when the next
dump takes you to naught.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:38:55 -0800, jps wrote:

I know
more about the equity markets than you'll ever know.

That is highly unlikely but I'm not going to compare resumes with you
in this forum. Suffice it to say that I spent 40 years in the
industry. If that fails me, my youngest son is an ivy league MBA and
CFA.

Most of the
valuations are bogus and financial reports are manipulated to match
the analysts expectations.

Really? There are people who would pay you very well if your findings
are correct. Why not sell those companies short or buy put options?

The books are prepared to support the
message, not reality.

Perhaps you could cite some examples other than the outright frauds
like Enron, and the recent fiasco with mortgage backed securities.

It's a rigged game that favors those with the tools to predict and the
resources to manipulate.

If you don't have the know how to study, predict and analyze you are
definitely playing with half a deck. There's an old saying in poker
that if you look around the table and can't figure out who the patsy
is, it's probably you.

You still think Wall Street is a safe gamble? You'd be better off in
a casino betting on craps. Smart people took their cash out of the
market in the late 1990s and never put it back in.

Poor analogy. The market is not without risk but it is most
definitely not a casino. The casino always wins - it is a
mathematical certainty. The right way to think of the stock market is
as a collection of companies in which you can individually assume a
part ownership, or not. Would you want to own a piece of them all?
Most certainly not. My investment returns since the late 90s are very
substantial and there are many others who have done much better.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have a boat to live on when the next
dump takes you to naught.

Anyone who goes to naught in a crash is asleep at the wheel, and more
than likely, poorly invested prior.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 20:54:29 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:38:55 -0800, jps wrote:

I know
more about the equity markets than you'll ever know.

That is highly unlikely but I'm not going to compare resumes with you
in this forum. Suffice it to say that I spent 40 years in the
industry. If that fails me, my youngest son is an ivy league MBA and
CFA.

Most of the
valuations are bogus and financial reports are manipulated to match
the analysts expectations.

Really? There are people who would pay you very well if your findings
are correct. Why not sell those companies short or buy put options?

You're uninformed and sound like you worked at arm's length.

The books are prepared to support the
message, not reality.

Perhaps you could cite some examples other than the outright frauds
like Enron, and the recent fiasco with mortgage backed securities.

Again, you sound naive. How many CFOs of publicly traded companies do
you count as friends? The whole financial reporting practice of most
firms is driven by maintaining or pushing the stock price. Numbers
are regularly manipulated by booking altering revenue recognition,
timing write offs, closing deals, etc. It's all to satisfy the
analysts and expectations. The pressure for these departments to make
the numbers right is extraordinary and it happens everywhere and in
every industry.

It's a rigged game that favors those with the tools to predict and the
resources to manipulate.

If you don't have the know how to study, predict and analyze you are
definitely playing with half a deck. There's an old saying in poker
that if you look around the table and can't figure out who the patsy
is, it's probably you.

You still think Wall Street is a safe gamble? You'd be better off in
a casino betting on craps. Smart people took their cash out of the
market in the late 1990s and never put it back in.

Poor analogy. The market is not without risk but it is most
definitely not a casino. The casino always wins - it is a
mathematical certainty. The right way to think of the stock market is
as a collection of companies in which you can individually assume a
part ownership, or not. Would you want to own a piece of them all?
Most certainly not. My investment returns since the late 90s are very
substantial and there are many others who have done much better.

Best odds in any gambling house is craps. The odds are as even as it
gets.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have a boat to live on when the next
dump takes you to naught.

Anyone who goes to naught in a crash is asleep at the wheel, and more
than likely, poorly invested prior.

Let's hope you're not one of them.

On Mar 3, 1:37*am, jps wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 20:54:29 -0500, Wayne.B



wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:38:55 -0800, jps wrote:

*I know
more about the equity markets than you'll ever know.

That is highly unlikely but I'm not going to compare resumes with you
in this forum. * Suffice it to say that I spent 40 years in the
industry. *If that fails me, my youngest son is an ivy league MBA and
CFA.

Most of the
valuations are bogus and financial reports are manipulated to match
the analysts expectations.

Really? *There are people who would pay you very well if your findings
are correct. * *Why not sell those companies short or buy put options?

You're uninformed and sound like you worked at arm's length.

The books are prepared to support the
message, not reality.

Perhaps you could cite some examples other than the outright frauds
like Enron, and the recent fiasco with mortgage backed securities.

Again, you sound naive. *How many CFOs of publicly traded companies do
you count as friends? *The whole financial reporting practice of most
firms is driven by maintaining or pushing the stock price. *Numbers
are regularly manipulated by booking altering revenue recognition,
timing write offs, closing deals, etc. *It's all to satisfy the
analysts and expectations. *The pressure for these departments to make
the numbers right is extraordinary and it happens everywhere and in
every industry.



It's a rigged game that favors those with the tools to predict and the
resources to manipulate.

If you don't have the know how to study, predict and analyze you are
definitely playing with half a deck. * There's an old saying in poker
that if you look around the table and can't figure out who the patsy
is, it's probably you.

You still think Wall Street is a safe gamble? *You'd be better off in
a casino betting on craps. *Smart people took their cash out of the
market in the late 1990s and never put it back in.

Poor analogy. * The market is not without risk but it is most
definitely not a casino. * The casino always wins - it is a
mathematical certainty. *The right way to think of the stock market is
as a collection of companies in which you can individually assume a
part ownership, or not. * Would you want to own a piece of them all?
Most certainly not. *My investment returns since the late 90s are very
substantial and there are many others who have done much better.

Best odds in any gambling house is craps. *The odds are as even as it
gets.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have a boat to live on when the next
dump takes you to naught.

Anyone who goes to naught in a crash is asleep at the wheel, and more
than likely, poorly invested prior.

Let's hope you're not one of them.

It sounds like you are are one of them, or have been on the edge. You
show experience of losing your ass. Wayne shows evidence of retiring
comfortably and enjoying the fruits of his labour.

On Mar 2, 1:38*pm, jps wrote:
On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:41:00 -0500, Wayne.B



wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:29:11 -0800, jps wrote:

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, reserves are going up at the
same time price is going up. *That's not supply and demand.

Of course it is. * The reserves are created by people buying in
advance of actual need in expectation that supplies may be tighter at
a later date and/or prices higher. * *There is no big tank labeled
reserves. *It is the sum total of inventory on hand.

That's a bunch of crap. *Those markets are manipulated as are the
stock prices you hold so dear. *Let's see how much you like 'em when
they take the next dump.

Let's see if I understand this. * When asset prices are moving in a
direction that is favorable to you, it's because you are a shrewd
investor and money manager. * When values move in an unfavorable
direction it is because you are being manipulated?

Thanks, think I've got it now.

You must be projecting or you're putting words in my mouth. *

He must be projecting, JPS. Because he can't stuff words in your
mouth. It's already crammed full from some other guy.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 15:22:29 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:38:55 -0800, jps wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:41:00 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 22:29:11 -0800, jps wrote:

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, reserves are going up at the
same time price is going up. That's not supply and demand.

Of course it is. The reserves are created by people buying in
advance of actual need in expectation that supplies may be tighter at
a later date and/or prices higher. There is no big tank labeled
reserves. It is the sum total of inventory on hand.

That's a bunch of crap. Those markets are manipulated as are the
stock prices you hold so dear. Let's see how much you like 'em when
they take the next dump.

Let's see if I understand this. When asset prices are moving in a
direction that is favorable to you, it's because you are a shrewd
investor and money manager. When values move in an unfavorable
direction it is because you are being manipulated?

Thanks, think I've got it now.

You must be projecting or you're putting words in my mouth. I know
more about the equity markets than you'll ever know. Most of the
valuations are bogus and financial reports are manipulated to match
the analysts expectations. The books are prepared to support the
message, not reality.

It's a rigged game that favors those with the tools to predict and the
resources to manipulate.

You still think Wall Street is a safe gamble? You'd be better off in
a casino betting on craps. Smart people took their cash out of the
market in the late 1990s and never put it back in.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have a boat to live on when the next
dump takes you to naught.


I look at Wall Street like Jai Alai, You are never really sure what is
going on and you don't really understand the rules but if you can bet
with the smart money you can win.

That may be true but smart one day can be idiotic the next.

Lehman is out of busines. The game is rigged and Goldman has won, but
that doesn't mean that your Goldman broker is anymore on the inside or
working in your interests. They sold **** to their best customers in
hopes of keeping their bonus checks coming.