For the progressives among us
 

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:57:28 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:27:09 -0800, wrote:

Yeah, just what we need... another for-profit company (like
Haliburton) looking out for our "best interest."

You are on another one of your anti-capitalism rants again. Did you
get laid off from a large corporation at the same time as Harry?

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. What's so
difficult about that? By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

You whackos can't see the case for balance. It's either
no-holds-barred capitalism with all the ugly implications, or it's
socialism and the nanny state.

Your arguments are intellectually dishonest, as if there's no place in
the middle.

For the progressives among us
 

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:57:28 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:27:09 -0800, wrote:

Yeah, just what we need... another for-profit company (like
Haliburton) looking out for our "best interest."

You are on another one of your anti-capitalism rants again. Did you
get laid off from a large corporation at the same time as Harry?

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. What's so
difficult about that? By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

How about we let gov't do what we pay it to do instead of continually
praying at the alter of unfettered capitalism.

I do pay my employees well, provide health insurance, and I believe
most of what we buy is made here.

For the progressives among us
 

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:54:33 -0800, jps wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:57:28 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:27:09 -0800, wrote:

Yeah, just what we need... another for-profit company (like
Haliburton) looking out for our "best interest."

You are on another one of your anti-capitalism rants again. Did you
get laid off from a large corporation at the same time as Harry?

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. What's so
difficult about that? By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

You whackos can't see the case for balance. It's either
no-holds-barred capitalism with all the ugly implications, or it's
socialism and the nanny state.

Your arguments are intellectually dishonest, as if there's no place in
the middle.

Exactly. With extremists there's no middle ground.

For the progressives among us
 

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:59:08 -0800, wrote:

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. What's so
difficult about that? By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

How about we let gov't do what we pay it to do instead of continually
praying at the alter of unfettered capitalism.


=========

That is certainly not what I think the government should be doing, nor
did the founders of this country. Government as the ultimate panacea
for all ills is a relatively recent notion. It would be unaffordable
even if it were desirable.

The former Soviet Union created a culture where there was no penalty
for failure and no reward for success. It didn't work there and it
won't work anywhere else because it goes aginst human nature.

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. What's so
difficult about that? By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

The answer is that you couldn't do it. Without a profit motive no one
would even try.

For the progressives among us
 

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:46:10 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

On 1/17/11 8:57 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:27:09 -0800, wrote:

Yeah, just what we need... another for-profit company (like
Haliburton) looking out for our "best interest."

You are on another one of your anti-capitalism rants again. Did you
get laid off from a large corporation at the same time as Harry?


What are you smoking, Wayne?

Are you telling us that you actually had a successful career in
corporate America that you've never told us about? Not likely in my
opinion. The vitriol of you and your proxy spokespersons says it all.

For the progressives among us
 

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:58:01 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:37:51 -0800, jps wrote:

It wasn't always that way. Sam Walton refused to purchase anything
that wasn't made in the USA.

He's dead and so is his patriotism.

The interesting thing is pretty much all of America followed the lead
of the Walton kids.
Sam sr invented the concept of "Market Driven Quality". Basically
don't give the customer more quality than he will pay for.
When Gerstner took over IBM he embraced this idea. We threw away our
"six sigma" quality hats, stopped emulating Sony and got our MDQ hat
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/mdq.jpg
Real quality went out the window. We gave the customer what the
cheapest one was willing to pay for and being the industry leader,
everyone else followed. Now when you call for service, you get a guy
in India. Under Gerstner IBM reduced their US staff by about 45% and
made a **** load of money.

The Walton kids figured out the American public was of the same mind.
They would always buy the cheapest product, giving up quality for
price and the best place to find those products was China. They had
their old Little Rock neighbor (and spouse of a former board member)
in the White House to ease any trade restrictions so off they went to
China looking for cheap products. The rest is history. WalMart went
from an also ran, regional chain store to the biggest retailer in the
world in a decade.

It really doesn't matter whether you look at retailers, airlines or
computer systems, we seem to be giving up quality and service for a
cheap price. Buy it cheap, use it up and throw it away.

I agree with you, basically. The issue is that cheaper isn't
necessarily better when it comes to the public welfare. That's why I
don't believe corporations can possibly do the right thing in that
regard... at least not without appropriate regulation and oversight.

For the progressives among us
 

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 22:55:10 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:59:08 -0800, wrote:

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. What's so
difficult about that? By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

How about we let gov't do what we pay it to do instead of continually
praying at the alter of unfettered capitalism.


=========

That is certainly not what I think the government should be doing, nor
did the founders of this country. Government as the ultimate panacea
for all ills is a relatively recent notion. It would be unaffordable
even if it were desirable.

Well, what exactly do you think gov't is supposed to do?? Not protect
its citizens? That's what public health, for example, is all about.
Ensure some standard education level? What exactly don't you like
about gov't?

The former Soviet Union created a culture where there was no penalty
for failure and no reward for success. It didn't work there and it
won't work anywhere else because it goes aginst human nature.

We are in no way comparable to the SU. Nobody is advocating anything
that's even 1/1000 of what happened there.

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. What's so
difficult about that? By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

The answer is that you couldn't do it. Without a profit motive no one
would even try.

The answer is from a question that has no meaning.

For the progressives among us
 

On Jan 17, 8:59*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:57:28 -0500, Wayne.B



wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:27:09 -0800, wrote:

Yeah, just what we need... another for-profit company (like
Haliburton) looking out for our "best interest."

You are on another one of your anti-capitalism rants again. *Did you
get laid off from a large corporation at the same time as Harry?

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. *What's so
difficult about that? *By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

How about we let gov't do what we pay it to do instead of continually
praying at the alter of unfettered capitalism.

I do pay my employees well, provide health insurance, and I believe
most of what we buy is made here.

Now, justify the rest of it . DPlume. that is, if you can.

For the progressives among us
 

On Jan 17, 8:59*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:54:33 -0800, jps wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:57:28 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:27:09 -0800, wrote:

Yeah, just what we need... another for-profit company (like
Haliburton) looking out for our "best interest."

You are on another one of your anti-capitalism rants again. *Did you
get laid off from a large corporation at the same time as Harry?

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. *What's so
difficult about that? *By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

You whackos can't see the case for balance. *It's either
no-holds-barred capitalism with all the ugly implications, or it's
socialism and the nanny state.

Your arguments are intellectually dishonest, as if there's no place in
the middle.

Exactly. With extremists there's no middle ground.

You prove that here on a seemingly regular basis.

For the progressives among us
 

On Jan 17, 8:54*pm, jps wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:57:28 -0500, Wayne.B



wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:27:09 -0800, wrote:

Yeah, just what we need... another for-profit company (like
Haliburton) looking out for our "best interest."

You are on another one of your anti-capitalism rants again. *Did you
get laid off from a large corporation at the same time as Harry?

Tell you what. Why don't you organize a self-sustaining not for profit
group that provides all of the goods and services that everyone needs.
If your prices are competetive and you provide a good customer
experience, the world will beat a path to your door, and the evil "for
profit corporations" will be driven out of business. *What's so
difficult about that? *By the way, please pay your employees well,
provide them with good benefits, and make sure all of your suppliers
are in the US.

You whackos can't see the case for balance. *It's either
no-holds-barred capitalism with all the ugly implications, or it's
socialism and the nanny state.

Your arguments are intellectually dishonest, as if there's no place in
the middle.

For once, it is good to see you spelled "intellectually" correctly.