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America's Cup coming to San Francisco
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America's Cup coming to San Francisco
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America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 12:50:18 -0500, Harryk
wrote: On 1/1/11 12:43 PM, wrote: Wow... this will be fun! http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...p.html?s=print Where would the actual racing take place? Out in the open ocean or...a course around Alcatraz Island? The latter would sure draw shoreline crowds on all sides of the Bay. I don't know... maybe both? I guess they would have to suspend tankers and such from going in and out. I think Ellison was trying to promote crowds to watch, so they would have to do some sailing in the bay for that to happen. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 18:41:54 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote: "Harryk" wrote in message ... On 1/1/11 12:43 PM, wrote: Wow... this will be fun! http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...p.html?s=print Where would the actual racing take place? Out in the open ocean or...a course around Alcatraz Island? The latter would sure draw shoreline crowds on all sides of the Bay. Reply: Could be around Alcatraz to the Farallon Islands and back. already a couple sailboat races a year that do that. About 26 miles to the islands. There are questions on how a bankrupt city like SF can afford to do the upgrades required. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110101/...iling_americas Wow... you're just a downer for everything. I guess creating 8000 jobs and pumping $8B into the economy is the wrong thing. But, of course, San Francisco is Pelosi country, so it must be a terrible idea. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 09:30:46 -0500, W1TEF
wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 00:05:58 -0800, wrote: Wow... you're just a downer for everything. I guess creating 8000 jobs and pumping $8B into the economy is the wrong thing. But, of course, San Francisco is Pelosi country, so it must be a terrible idea. Newport ran a huge loss for every American's Cup they ran for many many years - that's why they only ran it every four years - fund raising to keep the city and state solvent. The America's Cup just isn't very interesting to the average sports fan - at least not the way it is constituted now as far as tourism goes. It just isn't going to attract the huge numbers needed to support the multi-million dollar yachts. I was there when Australia II won over Liberty - we watched most of the race off shore, then ran in to the pier to watch them come in. The Mrs and I could walk around, no crowds other than sailors and support staff - maybe 1,000 people total in the general area? Maybe. And it was even worse in previous races - nobody other than the sailing community cared. When Courageous took on Southern Cross, I bet there weren't 500 people watching in total. Or at least it didn't seem that way. Having said that, if Ellison succeeds in downsizing the boats to something more reasonable and races that can be viewed from shore, then maybe, just maybe. As it is? No - ain't gonna happen. Other than folks like you and me who might be interested in sailing races of the size and scope of the current America's Cup, there isn't much there - the average sports fan doesn't care about billionares building half billion dollar boats to race in one race. 8 Billion to the economy? No way - just ain't gonna happen and I highly doubt you will see 8,000 PERMANENT jobs out of this. Temp maybe - a big maybe. I really disagree. Firstly, it seems to me that watching some amazing boats (72' catamarans) racing around and in/out of the bay would be fantastic. Even Fleet Week draws 1000s of spectators, and the bay itself is jammed. Ellison, if nothing else, is a pretty savvy businessman. Secondly, I really think this fantasy about permanent vs. temporary jobs is totally stupid. Define permanent? Nobody can any more. It just isn't reasonable to hold up the economy because of some strange notion that if a job doesn't last forever it's no good. Total nonsense. All jobs boost the economy and fuel more jobs and more economic growth. This is BASIC economics. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On 1/2/11 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 09:30:46 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 00:05:58 -0800, wrote: Wow... you're just a downer for everything. I guess creating 8000 jobs and pumping $8B into the economy is the wrong thing. But, of course, San Francisco is Pelosi country, so it must be a terrible idea. Newport ran a huge loss for every American's Cup they ran for many many years - that's why they only ran it every four years - fund raising to keep the city and state solvent. The America's Cup just isn't very interesting to the average sports fan - at least not the way it is constituted now as far as tourism goes. It just isn't going to attract the huge numbers needed to support the multi-million dollar yachts. I was there when Australia II won over Liberty - we watched most of the race off shore, then ran in to the pier to watch them come in. The Mrs and I could walk around, no crowds other than sailors and support staff - maybe 1,000 people total in the general area? Maybe. And it was even worse in previous races - nobody other than the sailing community cared. When Courageous took on Southern Cross, I bet there weren't 500 people watching in total. Or at least it didn't seem that way. Having said that, if Ellison succeeds in downsizing the boats to something more reasonable and races that can be viewed from shore, then maybe, just maybe. As it is? No - ain't gonna happen. Other than folks like you and me who might be interested in sailing races of the size and scope of the current America's Cup, there isn't much there - the average sports fan doesn't care about billionares building half billion dollar boats to race in one race. 8 Billion to the economy? No way - just ain't gonna happen and I highly doubt you will see 8,000 PERMANENT jobs out of this. Temp maybe - a big maybe. I really disagree. Firstly, it seems to me that watching some amazing boats (72' catamarans) racing around and in/out of the bay would be fantastic. Even Fleet Week draws 1000s of spectators, and the bay itself is jammed. Ellison, if nothing else, is a pretty savvy businessman. Secondly, I really think this fantasy about permanent vs. temporary jobs is totally stupid. Define permanent? Nobody can any more. It just isn't reasonable to hold up the economy because of some strange notion that if a job doesn't last forever it's no good. Total nonsense. All jobs boost the economy and fuel more jobs and more economic growth. This is BASIC economics. I agree with your point about jobs; in today's corporate climate, everyone is a temporary employee *until* the corporation can figure out how to contract out the job and avoid all fringe benefits. I'm absolutely opposed to the taxpayers fronting money or taking on debt to support the leisure activities of billionaire sportsmen. Stadiums and other big time pro venues should be built and paid for by the owners of the teams, not the taxpayers. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 15:02:12 -0500, W1TEF
wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 11:19:54 -0800, wrote: I really disagree. Firstly, it seems to me that watching some amazing boats (72' catamarans) racing around and in/out of the bay would be fantastic. Even Fleet Week draws 1000s of spectators, and the bay itself is jammed. Ellison, if nothing else, is a pretty savvy businessman. Well, I hope so - I'd like to see it as it's something that I enjoy watching. When they had the Cup races live on Versus (then Outdoor Life) channel, I watched every race. I watched some of the last one, but for people on the shore, I doubt they could see anything. In SF, it would be much different. There would be viewing available from three sides inside the bay (at least) and even some from Marin for the offshore part. Secondly, I really think this fantasy about permanent vs. temporary jobs is totally stupid. Define permanent? Nobody can any more. It just isn't reasonable to hold up the economy because of some strange notion that if a job doesn't last forever it's no good. Total nonsense. All jobs boost the economy and fuel more jobs and more economic growth. This is BASIC economics. You need to take a remedial basic economics course then. A permanent job is defined as one without a definite end date. Temporary jobs have a definite end date. No course required... Cali is an "at-will" work state. Perhaps you're talking about staff positions? As for contract work, many people have open ended contracts, where the money is approved quarterly or even yearly. This is true for most staff positions these days. The job is reevaluated at intervals determined by the company. When a position is "no longer needed," it's eliminated via a layoff aka RIF. Not much difference, and both types of jobs contribute to the economy. Please prove otherwise. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 22:38:52 -0500, W1TEF
wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 13:37:02 -0800, wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 15:02:12 -0500, W1TEF wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 11:19:54 -0800, wrote: I really disagree. Firstly, it seems to me that watching some amazing boats (72' catamarans) racing around and in/out of the bay would be fantastic. Even Fleet Week draws 1000s of spectators, and the bay itself is jammed. Ellison, if nothing else, is a pretty savvy businessman. Well, I hope so - I'd like to see it as it's something that I enjoy watching. When they had the Cup races live on Versus (then Outdoor Life) channel, I watched every race. I watched some of the last one, but for people on the shore, I doubt they could see anything. In SF, it would be much different. There would be viewing available from three sides inside the bay (at least) and even some from Marin for the offshore part. Secondly, I really think this fantasy about permanent vs. temporary jobs is totally stupid. Define permanent? Nobody can any more. It just isn't reasonable to hold up the economy because of some strange notion that if a job doesn't last forever it's no good. Total nonsense. All jobs boost the economy and fuel more jobs and more economic growth. This is BASIC economics. You need to take a remedial basic economics course then. A permanent job is defined as one without a definite end date. Temporary jobs have a definite end date. No course required... Cali is an "at-will" work state. Perhaps you're talking about staff positions? As for contract work, many people have open ended contracts, where the money is approved quarterly or even yearly. This is true for most staff positions these days. The job is reevaluated at intervals determined by the company. When a position is "no longer needed," it's eliminated via a layoff aka RIF. Not much difference, and both types of jobs contribute to the economy. Please prove otherwise. Don't have to prove otherwise - you provided your own proof. A contract has a definite ending date and thus is considered "temporary". Consultants like professional engineers work this way all the time - either by the job or in terms of time. The fact that a contract can be extended isn't relevant - it has a definite ending date and as such is considered temporary. See - that wasn't hard. There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Certainly none of the auto union workers had "permanent" jobs. Not even police or fire. You can call it whatever you want, but the fact is that there's no such thing. This isn't Japan. You can have a staff position, but even that is reevaluated periodically and can be terminated. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote:
There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On 1/3/11 8:41 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. Me too. :) Retirement? I'd hate it. :) |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:41:49 -0500, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. Me too. :) Ditto. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:46:01 -0500, W1TEF
wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Incumbent politicians, judges, career military, Priests, Ministers, tenured university professors and educators...that's seven - want some more? I guess you missed the last election, judges can be removed, never heard of DOTD?, religious leaders can be removed, tenured educators - maybe. That's what you're basing your jobs recovery on... that list? You can define it personally anyway you want, the plain truth is that the classic legal definition of permanent and temporary jobs exists, has for a hundred or so years - the fact that you don't like it isn't relevant. There are no currently relevant "permanent" jobs. The fact that you don't know squat about legal definitions isn't my fault. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On 1/3/11 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:46:01 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Incumbent politicians, judges, career military, Priests, Ministers, tenured university professors and educators...that's seven - want some more? I guess you missed the last election, judges can be removed, never heard of DOTD?, religious leaders can be removed, tenured educators - maybe. That's what you're basing your jobs recovery on... that list? You can define it personally anyway you want, the plain truth is that the classic legal definition of permanent and temporary jobs exists, has for a hundred or so years - the fact that you don't like it isn't relevant. There are no currently relevant "permanent" jobs. The fact that you don't know squat about legal definitions isn't my fault. You two are arguing semantics. Therefore, no winner is possible. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
In article ,
says... On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. It is true, the baby boom generation is the selfish generation. I guess when you believe what the government tells you, you get stuck with what the government gives you. Glad I am funding my own retirement. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
"BAR" wrote in message . ..
In article , says... On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. It is true, the baby boom generation is the selfish generation. I guess when you believe what the government tells you, you get stuck with what the government gives you. Glad I am funding my own retirement. Reply: Yup, but what happens when the government tells you that all retirement funds have to invested in government securities? |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 14:45:20 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. Gas prices, and the resulting taxes, are a great example. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 14:45:20 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. If you'd like to prevent that from happening, I'd suggest not electing any more Tea Party candidates. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:46:30 -0500, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. It is true, the baby boom generation is the selfish generation. I guess when you believe what the government tells you, you get stuck with what the government gives you. Glad I am funding my own retirement. I'm glad you are also, so that we don't have to listen to you whine about everyone else... oh wait. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 16:57:22 -0500, John H
wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 14:45:20 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. Gas prices, and the resulting taxes, are a great example. Gas prices?? This has nothing to do with Social Security. Where are you getting that notion? |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 09:30:46 -0500, W1TEF
wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 00:05:58 -0800, wrote: Wow... you're just a downer for everything. I guess creating 8000 jobs and pumping $8B into the economy is the wrong thing. But, of course, San Francisco is Pelosi country, so it must be a terrible idea. Newport ran a huge loss for every American's Cup they ran for many many years - that's why they only ran it every four years - fund raising to keep the city and state solvent. The America's Cup just isn't very interesting to the average sports fan - at least not the way it is constituted now as far as tourism goes. It just isn't going to attract the huge numbers needed to support the multi-million dollar yachts. I was there when Australia II won over Liberty - we watched most of the race off shore, then ran in to the pier to watch them come in. The Mrs and I could walk around, no crowds other than sailors and support staff - maybe 1,000 people total in the general area? Maybe. And it was even worse in previous races - nobody other than the sailing community cared. When Courageous took on Southern Cross, I bet there weren't 500 people watching in total. Or at least it didn't seem that way. Having said that, if Ellison succeeds in downsizing the boats to something more reasonable and races that can be viewed from shore, then maybe, just maybe. As it is? No - ain't gonna happen. Other than folks like you and me who might be interested in sailing races of the size and scope of the current America's Cup, there isn't much there - the average sports fan doesn't care about billionares building half billion dollar boats to race in one race. 8 Billion to the economy? No way - just ain't gonna happen and I highly doubt you will see 8,000 PERMANENT jobs out of this. Temp maybe - a big maybe. Here's an awesome, but short promo... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xivNKFulYhU |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Jan 3, 11:04*am, John H wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:41:49 -0500, W1TEF wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. * It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. Me too. :) Ditto. Retirement? What's that??? eve3n if and when I decide to, I'll sell out and sit around a while,t hen decide I can't stand it and do something else. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Jan 3, 2:46*pm, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. * It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. * The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. * It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. It is true, the baby boom generation is the selfish generation. I guess when you believe what the government tells you, you get stuck with what the government gives you. Glad I am funding my own retirement. Me too. I believe in putting stock in yourself. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 18:42:18 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote: On Jan 3, 2:46*pm, BAR wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:46:03 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 05:39:12 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Retirement. * It's very steady work with a reliable pay check and I enjoy it. LOL! Well, until Social Security ends in a ball of flames... There is no member of congress brave enough to face an army of ticked off retirees. * The theft will be done in stealthier fashion via inflation and manipulation of consumer price indices. * It's already happening and will soon begin to hurt those who are not well hedged. It is true, the baby boom generation is the selfish generation. I guess when you believe what the government tells you, you get stuck with what the government gives you. Glad I am funding my own retirement. Me too. I believe in putting stock in yourself. So, you don't get Social Security or Medicare? |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
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America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:25:06 -0500, W1TEF
wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 14:07:48 -0500, Harryk wrote: On 1/3/11 1:49 PM, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:46:01 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Incumbent politicians, judges, career military, Priests, Ministers, tenured university professors and educators...that's seven - want some more? I guess you missed the last election, judges can be removed, never heard of DOTD?, religious leaders can be removed, tenured educators - maybe. That's what you're basing your jobs recovery on... that list? You can define it personally anyway you want, the plain truth is that the classic legal definition of permanent and temporary jobs exists, has for a hundred or so years - the fact that you don't like it isn't relevant. There are no currently relevant "permanent" jobs. The fact that you don't know squat about legal definitions isn't my fault. You two are arguing semantics. Therefore, no winner is possible. No, I'm stating the legal definition describing permanent and temporary employment as found in contract and administrative law not to mention Economics 101. Show me an example of such a legal definition in the US. The point is that that term and hiring under such a term is frowned upon and has been for a long time. Something, by the way, you are probably very familiar with being, in part, a contract worker occasionally. Ms. Plum is arguing her own definition of same as being reality which it isn't. In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers. QED - so basically, you're admitting you're wrong and claiming I'm wrong in two small paragraphs. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
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America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:19:21 -0500, W1TEF
wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:49:10 -0800, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:46:01 -0500, W1TEF wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Incumbent politicians, judges, career military, Priests, Ministers, tenured university professors and educators...that's seven - want some more? I guess you missed the last election, judges can be removed, never heard of DOTD?, religious leaders can be removed, tenured educators - maybe. That's what you're basing your jobs recovery on... that list? I'm not baseing my opinion on anything - permanent jobs exist. That you want to redefine it as temporary is your problem - not mine. You're correct. You're not basing your opinion on anything. There are very few "permanent" positions, and even those you listed aren't truly so. You can define it personally anyway you want, the plain truth is that the classic legal definition of permanent and temporary jobs exists, has for a hundred or so years - the fact that you don't like it isn't relevant. There are no currently relevant "permanent" jobs. The fact that you don't know squat about legal definitions isn't my fault. As I said above, redefining it to suit your ideology is all well and good - the fact is that LEGALLY (as in a employment contract or an agreement to hire - take your pick) the definition exists, you can't change it and that puts paid to any further discussion. Show us. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:25:06 -0500, W1TEF
wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 14:07:48 -0500, Harryk wrote: On 1/3/11 1:49 PM, wrote: On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:46:01 -0500, wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote: There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one. Incumbent politicians, judges, career military, Priests, Ministers, tenured university professors and educators...that's seven - want some more? I guess you missed the last election, judges can be removed, never heard of DOTD?, religious leaders can be removed, tenured educators - maybe. That's what you're basing your jobs recovery on... that list? You can define it personally anyway you want, the plain truth is that the classic legal definition of permanent and temporary jobs exists, has for a hundred or so years - the fact that you don't like it isn't relevant. There are no currently relevant "permanent" jobs. The fact that you don't know squat about legal definitions isn't my fault. You two are arguing semantics. Therefore, no winner is possible. No, I'm stating the legal definition describing permanent and temporary employment as found in contract and administrative law not to mention Economics 101. Something, by the way, you are probably very familiar with being, in part, a contract worker occasionally. Ms. Plum is arguing her own definition of same as being reality which it isn't. In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers. I find it truly interesting that you're so concerned with permanent vs. "temporary" or contract employment, as though the rare instance of permanent employment is solution to the job situation in this country. You claim that a job isn't any good because it's not permanent, yet most jobs in the US (by a wide margin) are not considered permanent (esp. in at-will states, where permanence is even more tenuous). By this standard, we could have full (contract/temp) employment and you would claim that it doesn't solve anything, when it's obvious that _any_ job, even if it only lasts one day, is a net positive for the economy, the person hired, the company, agency, or person who hires him/her, and dependents of that person. I think you need to reevaluate your position, since it makes little sense either economically or politically. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
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America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:18:56 -0500, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:06:59 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:49:02 -0500, wrote: On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:25:06 -0500, W1TEF wrote: In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers. A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the 50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the signs because they changed so often. Completely untrue. How do you know what a GSA guy told me. I bet you didn't even know what GSA was without looking it up. If you are saying it is easy to fire a federal worker you are just ignorant of the US Civil Service. http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/ It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a corner and ignored. Completely untrue. Again, how the hell do you know about this? How many years have you worked in federal offices and how many federal worker bees do you know? I was in DC for 38 years and about half of the people I have known all my life were federal workers or the kids of federal workers. It is what they do in that city. I also spent 15 years working in federal offices, most of the time down where the GS 5-11s work. I am not going to say the slugs get promoted but they can just sit in a GS 5 or 7 job for years, taking their in grade step raises and do fine. http://www.redstate.com/nikitas3/201...rs-fired-good/ |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:41:55 -0500, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 13:34:51 -0800, wrote: A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the 50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the signs because they changed so often. Completely untrue. How do you know what a GSA guy told me. I bet you didn't even know what GSA was without looking it up. If you are saying it is easy to fire a federal worker you are just ignorant of the US Civil Service. http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/ Cato Institute? Do you know who they are? That is a Libertarian group saying what the government SHOULD DO. That has nothing to do with what they actually do. "Vice-President Gore leads the Administration’'S efforts to reinvent government, making it work better, cost less, and get results that Americans care about. Under his leadership, the size of the federal [civilian] workforce has been reduced by about 350,000 people, and common sense changes have been made in the way government works that have saved the taxpayers $ 137 billion." http://www.scribd.com/doc/3973816/Re...ral-Downsizing It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a corner and ignored. Completely untrue. Again, how the hell do you know about this? How many years have you worked in federal offices and how many federal worker bees do you know? I was in DC for 38 years and about half of the people I have known all my life were federal workers or the kids of federal workers. It is what they do in that city. I also spent 15 years working in federal offices, most of the time down where the GS 5-11s work. I am not going to say the slugs get promoted but they can just sit in a GS 5 or 7 job for years, taking their in grade step raises and do fine. http://www.redstate.com/nikitas3/201...rs-fired-good/ A good start but I said US Civil Service, not the states. See previous. The states are going to be getting rid of lots of people because they are broke but I do not see much happening beyond normal attrition in the federal government. The only way they have actually trimmed the size since the 50s was not hiring people to replace ones who retired and even doing that is very rare. I am not sure the USCS has actually reduced headcount since the Eisenhower administration. Now you are. Obama has increased the size of the federal workforce by 10% in 2 years. And the problem with this is.....? Average annual salary of all full-time employees was $79,179 in 2008. http://federaljobs.net/overview.htm Sorry, but I don't need a job. http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...-civil-service Uh huh.. the heritage foundation. Sure. We should believe them.... |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
"I am Tosk" wrote in message ...
In article , says... snippage Of course, in the private sector, you get promoted for stealing. :) Only if you steal for the company, not if you steal from the company. When it comes to criminal activity, no one beats the private sector. Bull, and you know it. For one, the private sector is slowed down some by accountability. When I worked at the non-union shop, Stanadyne, there was no where near the amount of raw criminal activity going on as when I worked for the Union at Finast. That "untouchable" attitude goes up through the ranks of the Union, they were dirty as hell and sold us all out too.... -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! Krause is married to the union, literally. Everyone who has a pulse knows how corrupt those union folks are. But they are falling like dominoes now. Check out your own state of Connecticut if you want to see examples. -- Ziggy® |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
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America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On 1/4/11 5:43 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In , says... snippage Of course, in the private sector, you get promoted for stealing. :) Only if you steal for the company, not if you steal from the company. When it comes to criminal activity, no one beats the private sector. Bull, and you know it. For one, the private sector is slowed down some by accountability. When I worked at the non-union shop, Stanadyne, there was no where near the amount of raw criminal activity going on as when I worked for the Union at Finast. That "untouchable" attitude goes up through the ranks of the Union, they were dirty as hell and sold us all out too.... You do know he threw out the bait and you swallowed it hook line and sinker. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On 1/4/11 6:34 PM, Ziggy® wrote:
"I am wrote in message ... In , says... snippage Of course, in the private sector, you get promoted for stealing. :) Only if you steal for the company, not if you steal from the company. When it comes to criminal activity, no one beats the private sector. Bull, and you know it. For one, the private sector is slowed down some by accountability. When I worked at the non-union shop, Stanadyne, there was no where near the amount of raw criminal activity going on as when I worked for the Union at Finast. That "untouchable" attitude goes up through the ranks of the Union, they were dirty as hell and sold us all out too.... -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! Krause is married to the union, literally. Everyone who has a pulse knows how corrupt those union folks are. But they are falling like dominoes now. Check out your own state of Connecticut if you want to see examples. It appears that Krause wants to pretend he is interested in a nice place to discuss boating and to stop the bickering, but he really wants to throw out bait and see if he can get the fish worked up into a tizzy and then say "see, I was good and look at how terrible everyone else is". Don't take the bait. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On 1/4/11 6:51 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:49:02 -0500, wrote: O wrote: In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers. A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the 50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the signs because they changed so often. It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a corner and ignored. The AFGE is quite protective. They can manage to waste enough time of supervisors that it's probably cheaper to reassign the non-performer. Probably similar to the firing of worthless teachers. Where the union is strong, the non-performers are in luck. The public (and their kids) suffer. Oooooh...I just love it when righties do their best to maintain a non-confrontational atmospherein rec.boats. Me, I'll just...watch. |
America's Cup coming to San Francisco
On Jan 1, 8:41*pm, "Califbill" wrote:
"Harryk" *wrote in message ... On 1/1/11 12:43 PM, wrote: Wow... this will be fun! http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci.../san-francisco... Where would the actual racing take place? Out in the open ocean or...a course around Alcatraz Island? The latter would sure draw shoreline crowds on all sides of the Bay. Reply: *Could be around Alcatraz to the Farallon Islands *and back. *already a couple sailboat races a year that do that. *About 26 miles to the islands. There are questions on how a bankrupt city like SF can afford to do the upgrades required. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110101/...iling_americas I'm not really into that kind of racing but if it can pump some more money back into the US I'm all for it. |
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