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The Ultimate Alternator Project
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote in message ... On Nov 13, 7:00 am, "YukonBound" wrote: "I am Tosk" wrote in l-september.org... In article , says... YukonBound wrote: "Gene" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:25:30 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Do you have a USCG Master's license? Do you possess an intimate understanding of the Rules of the Road? I do. I do, too..... and I wouldn't dare own or operate a boat without sufficient insurance coverage. ESPECIALLY, commercially.... I can only assume a few things: One, you don't own a boat large enough to be kept in dry or wet storage. If you did, you'd be required by the marina to carry insurance...or Second, you have no assets and no real concern of liability.... can't squeeze blood from a turnip....or Third, you are so fabulously wealthy that not even an accident and subsequent fuel spill wouldn't faze you....or Fourth, most likely, you are infallible and inviolably lucky..... If I have the right guy... he owns a 27' mustard yellow Coronado sailboat c/w mauve interior that he keeps moored back in a swampy backwater in Florida. He has no fears because no one would bother to sue him for that boat or his postman's pension. Nice job improving the group, dummy! Donnie seems to keep getting a pass... -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! A pass at what? I've was called names half a dozen times yesterday by the group dysfunctional..... and no one says boo about it. Maybe he's one of your aliens................. ~~ snerk ~~- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Quit your crying and join the group... no excuses... Unlike you, I was part of the 'new initiative' right from the get go. You are still acting disruptive. Time for a reality check! |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Nov 13, 3:05*am, Bob wrote:
Hello: *To that end we've installed a 2,000 watt inverter and a bank of 8 golf cart batteries with a total capacity of about 1,000 amp-hours. * Peak alternator loads can easily approach 250 amps and average well over half of that. There are some downside issues however: * and fortunately the front pulley on a Detroit 6-71 can accomodate up to three belts. In testing it has put out well over 200 amps while maintaining reasonable temperatures. * Stay tuned for the long term durability reports... * * :-) Most older homes had a 100 amp load center. For the last 30 years a 200 load center (braker panel) is the residential standard. I rewired my home 10 years ago and the union journyman electrition installed a 200 amp panel. The home was 2600 sq ft.. With the greatest respect. Why would you need MORE amps than the common 2600 sq ft home ? Bob It's not about current, it's about power. Power, expressed as watts, is voltage x current. In the case of your home, 120v times 200a = 24,000 watts. In the case of Wayne's boat, it's 12 x 200 = 2400 watts. Huge difference, right? Only 10% of the power available to run the boat as compared to your house. Said another way, it's power that does the work. If you drop the voltage in half, you must double the current to keep power the same. At 12v instead of 120v, you'd need 2000 amps to have the same power availability as that home! And yes, for the sharper electrical eyes among us, I simplified some things like the house is actually 240 single phase, AC vs DC, etc... It's the concept that's important. :- |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
"YukonBound" wrote in message
... "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote in message ... On Nov 13, 7:00 am, "YukonBound" wrote: "I am Tosk" wrote in l-september.org... In article , says... YukonBound wrote: "Gene" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:25:30 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Do you have a USCG Master's license? Do you possess an intimate understanding of the Rules of the Road? I do. I do, too..... and I wouldn't dare own or operate a boat without sufficient insurance coverage. ESPECIALLY, commercially.... I can only assume a few things: One, you don't own a boat large enough to be kept in dry or wet storage. If you did, you'd be required by the marina to carry insurance...or Second, you have no assets and no real concern of liability.... can't squeeze blood from a turnip....or Third, you are so fabulously wealthy that not even an accident and subsequent fuel spill wouldn't faze you....or Fourth, most likely, you are infallible and inviolably lucky..... If I have the right guy... he owns a 27' mustard yellow Coronado sailboat c/w mauve interior that he keeps moored back in a swampy backwater in Florida. He has no fears because no one would bother to sue him for that boat or his postman's pension. Nice job improving the group, dummy! Donnie seems to keep getting a pass... -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! A pass at what? I've was called names half a dozen times yesterday by the group dysfunctional..... and no one says boo about it. Maybe he's one of your aliens................. ~~ snerk ~~- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Quit your crying and join the group... no excuses... Unlike you, I was part of the 'new initiative' right from the get go. You are still acting disruptive. Time for a reality check! I beg to differ. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
Nice. but the upper mount pivot bolt shimmed with all those washers
will fatigue and break soon. JR On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 00:05:25 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: Those of you who followed along with the updates from our Caribbean cruise earlier this year, may remember that we experienced some alternator issues along the way. This was disappointing for a number of reasons because we had already spent a fair amount of time, effort and boat bucks trying to find a high output alternator that was also durable. Our goal is to not run the generator at all when under way, and to minimize generator time when anchored. The potential savings on generator fuel and maintenance add up to a big number. To that end we've installed a 2,000 watt inverter and a bank of 8 golf cart batteries with a total capacity of about 1,000 amp-hours. The inverter and battery bank work well together but the batteries eventually need to be recharged, and when underway, the alternator needs to supply inverter amps, recharge amps and onboard house loads like navigation equipment, lights, auto pilot, engine room blowers, etc. Peak alternator loads can easily approach 250 amps and average well over half of that. To make a long story short, no automotive alternator that we've tried has been capable of these loads over a long period of time, even those that have been beefed up with heavy duty components. We burned out a total of 4 over the course of 6 months in the islands. Repair and replacement was problematic to say the least. After consulting with Tim, our cheerful, ever helpful, resident alternator expert on "rec.boats", and a number of other sources, I decided that a fresh approach was needed. Enter a company called Leece-Neville, a division of Prestolite, that has been making heavy duty alternators for a long time. LNs are used all over the world on fire trucks, ambulances, busses, big trucks, heavy duty construction machinery, etc. Their big alternators make everything else look like a toy, weigh over 35 pounds and are priced accordingly. Many of the really big ones are north of $2K at full retail. Thanks to the internet and EBAY however, they are now becoming available at more reasonable prices. I was recently able to buy a unit that had been remanufactured to like new condition for about $400, a bargain compared to some of our previous repair/replace experiences. It is rated at 270 amps continuously at high temperatures, and is designed for fire trucks, ambulances and busses. http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?item_detail_id=951&item=A0014867JB&produ ct=ALTERNATOR There are some downside issues however: It is designed for a so called J180 mounting bracket; requires multiple drive belts since it can use as much as 6 or 7 horsepower; and is not ignition protected for gasoline engines. Ignition protection is not an issue for our diesels, and fortunately the front pulley on a Detroit 6-71 can accomodate up to three belts. The mounting bracket was problematic however since the existing mount was for a Delco 2 inch foot. In exchange for a sizable boat buck fraction, a local machine shop fabricated a custom made J180 bracket from 1/2 inch cold rolled steel. In combination with some Grade 8 steel mounting hardware and a new adjusting arm, everything is now solidly attached, lined up and looking good with 3 brand new Gates Green Stripe belts installed. In testing it has put out well over 200 amps while maintaining reasonable temperatures. Stay tuned for the long term durability reports... :-) New alternator and bracket prior to installation with a beverage can for size reference: http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3557/preinstallwithnewbracke.jpg After installation, with new HD belts and adjusting arm. The black detritus in the background is left over from the many previous alternators and belts which gave up their lives in that spot: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1462/installedimg0573.jpg Boat, with new alternator well hidden, docked last weekend on the Caloosahatchie River in southwestern Florida: http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/6797/img0567i.jpg |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 11:26:33 -0500, "Ziggy" wrote:
Quit your crying and join the group... no excuses... Unlike you, I was part of the 'new initiative' right from the get go. You are still acting disruptive. Time for a reality check! I beg to differ. Allow me to respectfully suggest that all three of you guys knock it off. It doesn't matter and no one else cares. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:05:41 -0800, JR North
wrote: Nice. but the upper mount pivot bolt shimmed with all those washers will fatigue and break soon. I understand your point and concern. The bolt is 1/2 inch grade 8 steel which is pretty sturdy stuff. The washers have been bonded together to create a rigid spacer. I'm going to get a slightly longer bolt and put a washer and lock nut on the fan side of the adjustment arm. Any other suggestions? |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On 11/13/10 12:17 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 11:26:33 -0500, wrote: Quit your crying and join the group... no excuses... Unlike you, I was part of the 'new initiative' right from the get go. You are still acting disruptive. Time for a reality check! I beg to differ. Allow me to respectfully suggest that all three of you guys knock it off. It doesn't matter and no one else cares. Hear, hear! |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
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The Ultimate Alternator Project
In article
, Bob wrote: Hello: With the greatest respect. Why would you need MORE amps than the common 2600 sq ft home ? Id think at that point it would make more since to install a dedicated hard wired diesel powered generator. Yours truely, Bob Your an Idiot, Bob.... It is amazing to "Me" that you do NOT seem to recognize Wayne is talking about a 12Vdc system and NOT a 120 Vac system, for the Battery Charging, of the 8 Batteries in the House Bank that is tied to the 2 Kw Inverter.... Maybe you should take a "Redial" Reading Comprehension Course... 200 AMPS @ 12 Vdc is ONLY 2.4 Kw.... not all that much... My question for Wayne is what would be your 12 Vdc Amp load, IF you ran the Inverter at 24 Vdc, and had the LN Alternator running 24 Vdc, charging the House Bank at 24 Vdc. Then powering a separate, much smaller, 12 Vdc Buss from a 24/12 Dc/Dc Converter charging a small Group 27 Battery to supply that Buss? I use this approach at my Remote Cabin here in alaska, and find it is much better to do it this way, rather than deal with very heavy cabling required for 200+ Amp operations. Anything over 1 Kw should be run at 24 Vdc, and anything over 3.5 Kw should be run at either 32 Vdc or 48 Vdc, just to keep the I2R losses under control. -- Bruce in Alaska add path before the @ for email |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On 11/13/10 5:37 PM, Gene wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:44:04 -0900, Bruce wrote: In article , wrote: Hello: With the greatest respect. Why would you need MORE amps than the common 2600 sq ft home ? Id think at that point it would make more since to install a dedicated hard wired diesel powered generator. Yours truely, Bob Your an Idiot, Bob.... It is amazing to "Me" that you do NOT seem to recognize Wayne is talking about a 12Vdc system and NOT a 120 Vac system, for the Battery Charging, of the 8 Batteries in the House Bank that is tied to the 2 Kw Inverter.... Maybe you should take a "Redial" Reading Comprehension Course... 200 AMPS @ 12 Vdc is ONLY 2.4 Kw.... not all that much... My question for Wayne is what would be your 12 Vdc Amp load, IF you ran the Inverter at 24 Vdc, and had the LN Alternator running 24 Vdc, charging the House Bank at 24 Vdc. Then powering a separate, much smaller, 12 Vdc Buss from a 24/12 Dc/Dc Converter charging a small Group 27 Battery to supply that Buss? I use this approach at my Remote Cabin here in alaska, and find it is much better to do it this way, rather than deal with very heavy cabling required for 200+ Amp operations. Anything over 1 Kw should be run at 24 Vdc, and anything over 3.5 Kw should be run at either 32 Vdc or 48 Vdc, just to keep the I2R losses under control. Your point is well taken, but apparently, it isn't cost effective to renovate for other than 12V. I'm a neophyte when it comes to boat 'lectricity. It seems Wayne is reluctant to use his generator(s). Is that because of noise? It can't be because of fuel burn, because he has a huge boat that burns a significant amount of fuel at any speed. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
YukonBound wrote:
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote in message ... On Nov 13, 7:00 am, "YukonBound" wrote: "I am Tosk" wrote in l-september.org... In article , says... YukonBound wrote: "Gene" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:25:30 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Do you have a USCG Master's license? Do you possess an intimate understanding of the Rules of the Road? I do. I do, too..... and I wouldn't dare own or operate a boat without sufficient insurance coverage. ESPECIALLY, commercially.... I can only assume a few things: One, you don't own a boat large enough to be kept in dry or wet storage. If you did, you'd be required by the marina to carry insurance...or Second, you have no assets and no real concern of liability.... can't squeeze blood from a turnip....or Third, you are so fabulously wealthy that not even an accident and subsequent fuel spill wouldn't faze you....or Fourth, most likely, you are infallible and inviolably lucky..... If I have the right guy... he owns a 27' mustard yellow Coronado sailboat c/w mauve interior that he keeps moored back in a swampy backwater in Florida. He has no fears because no one would bother to sue him for that boat or his postman's pension. Nice job improving the group, dummy! Donnie seems to keep getting a pass... -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! A pass at what? I've was called names half a dozen times yesterday by the group dysfunctional..... and no one says boo about it. Maybe he's one of your aliens................. ~~ snerk ~~- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Quit your crying and join the group... no excuses... Unlike you, I was part of the 'new initiative' right from the get go. You are still acting disruptive. Time for a reality check! I can't believe you actually typed that and hit "send" with a clear conscious. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 21:38:33 -0500, Gene
wrote: I'm a neophyte when it comes to boat 'lectricity. It seems Wayne is reluctant to use his generator(s). Is that because of noise? It can't be because of fuel burn, because he has a huge boat that burns a significant amount of fuel at any speed. I guess Wayne will have to explain this one.... but, in seems like a heavy reliance on banking 12V DC Amps to be inverted into 120V or 240V AC Amps at an incredible "ratio" disadvantage.... There are times when we have to run the generator for things like air conditioning, cooking, hot water, etc. My goal is to minimize or totally eliminate the need for running the generator when we are under way, mainly for the fridge and freezers but also for small stuff like computers and battery rechargers. Generators are expensive to run, about $4/hour in amortiztion costs alone ($20K with installation, approx 5,000 hour useful life). Adding in fuel and maintenance probably pushes the cost to something like $8/hour. When we are under way the big Detroits are already spinning so why not take a little more power out of them. Alternators are a lot cheaper and easier to replace than generators. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
The real concern is that diesels shake the crap out of everything.
Lots of vibration, which puts an unbelievable amount of stress and load on mounts such as yours. Also, the mounting ear on the alt is pretty thin. For instance, on Indy cars, the vibration load on mountings such as these have been calculated at over 125 Gs. The upper mounting arm on that alt should be 1/2" thick, and bolted flush to the ear, however you articulate it to accomplich this. JR On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:25:38 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:05:41 -0800, JR North wrote: Nice. but the upper mount pivot bolt shimmed with all those washers will fatigue and break soon. I understand your point and concern. The bolt is 1/2 inch grade 8 steel which is pretty sturdy stuff. The washers have been bonded together to create a rigid spacer. I'm going to get a slightly longer bolt and put a washer and lock nut on the fan side of the adjustment arm. Any other suggestions? |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:35:21 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 21:38:33 -0500, Gene wrote: I'm a neophyte when it comes to boat 'lectricity. It seems Wayne is reluctant to use his generator(s). Is that because of noise? It can't be because of fuel burn, because he has a huge boat that burns a significant amount of fuel at any speed. I guess Wayne will have to explain this one.... but, in seems like a heavy reliance on banking 12V DC Amps to be inverted into 120V or 240V AC Amps at an incredible "ratio" disadvantage.... There are times when we have to run the generator for things like air conditioning, cooking, hot water, etc. My goal is to minimize or totally eliminate the need for running the generator when we are under way, mainly for the fridge and freezers but also for small stuff like computers and battery rechargers. Generators are expensive to run, about $4/hour in amortiztion costs alone ($20K with installation, approx 5,000 hour useful life). Adding in fuel and maintenance probably pushes the cost to something like $8/hour. When we are under way the big Detroits are already spinning so why not take a little more power out of them. Alternators are a lot cheaper and easier to replace than generators. And while at anchor, they produce noise and exhaust. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
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The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:34:27 -0500, Gene
wrote: Gene, I'd be happy to send you some drawings if you'd like to cut some metal on my behalf. It's a fairly simple piece with only a few critical dimensions. Send me a drawing and I'll see if I have the stock... Gene, drawing's should be on their way. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Nov 12, 9:57*pm, L G wrote:
YukonBound wrote: "Gene" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:25:30 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Do you have a USCG Master's license? Do you possess an intimate understanding of the Rules of the Road? *I do. I do, too..... and I wouldn't dare own or operate a boat without sufficient insurance coverage. ESPECIALLY, commercially.... I can only assume a few *things: One, you don't own a boat large enough to be kept in dry or wet storage. If you did, you'd be required by the marina to carry insurance...or Second, you have no assets and no real concern of liability.... can't squeeze blood from a turnip....or Third, you are so fabulously wealthy that not even an accident and subsequent fuel spill wouldn't faze you....or Fourth, most likely, you are infallible and inviolably lucky..... If I have the right guy... he owns a 27' mustard yellow Coronado sailboat c/w mauve interior that he keeps moored back in a swampy backwater in Florida. He has no fears because no one would bother to sue him *for that boat or his postman's pension. Nice job improving the group, dummy! Look who's talking...the resident idiot, LG. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Nov 13, 9:38*pm, L G wrote:
I am Tosk wrote: In articles_mdndsmToIIY0DRnZ2dnUVZ_vOdn...@giganews. com, says... YukonBound wrote: *wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:25:30 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" *wrote: Do you have a USCG Master's license? Do you possess an intimate understanding of the Rules of the Road? *I do. I do, too..... and I wouldn't dare own or operate a boat without sufficient insurance coverage. ESPECIALLY, commercially.... I can only assume a few *things: One, you don't own a boat large enough to be kept in dry or wet storage. If you did, you'd be required by the marina to carry insurance...or Second, you have no assets and no real concern of liability.... can't squeeze blood from a turnip....or Third, you are so fabulously wealthy that not even an accident and subsequent fuel spill wouldn't faze you....or Fourth, most likely, you are infallible and inviolably lucky..... If I have the right guy... he owns a 27' mustard yellow Coronado sailboat c/w mauve interior that he keeps moored back in a swampy backwater in Florida. He has no fears because no one would bother to sue him *for that boat or his postman's pension. Nice job improving the group, dummy! Donnie seems to keep getting a pass... No, WAFA gave him strict orders. *He has no mind of his own so he will follow them. More " nothing " from the resident idiot, LG. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Nov 14, 6:01*pm, "Califbill" wrote:
"I am Tosk" *wrote in l-september.org... In article , says... YukonBound wrote: "Gene" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:25:30 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Do you have a USCG Master's license? Do you possess an intimate understanding of the Rules of the Road? *I do. I do, too..... and I wouldn't dare own or operate a boat without sufficient insurance coverage. ESPECIALLY, commercially.... I can only assume a few *things: One, you don't own a boat large enough to be kept in dry or wet storage. If you did, you'd be required by the marina to carry insurance...or Second, you have no assets and no real concern of liability.... can't squeeze blood from a turnip....or Third, you are so fabulously wealthy that not even an accident and subsequent fuel spill wouldn't faze you....or Fourth, most likely, you are infallible and inviolably lucky..... If I have the right guy... he owns a 27' mustard yellow Coronado sailboat c/w mauve interior that he keeps moored back in a swampy backwater in Florida. He has no fears because no one would bother to sue him *for that boat or his postman's pension. Nice job improving the group, dummy! Donnie seems to keep getting a pass... -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever! Actually Donnie is correct in this situation. *40% of the drivers in San Jose, CA have no auto insurance. *And they do not need it. *The law says they must have it to drive a car, but when you have less than $500 in the bank and no assets, what are they going to do. *My change to the law is people like Wilbur with no insurance and they get run in to get nothing from the other person except direct medical costs. *No pain and suffering, no property damage, no lost of income. *They get nothing but direct medical costs. * *Wilbur runs into someone else, they get nothing as Wilbur has nothing. *Fair play regards damages. Don't worry about the Panty Goddess, he's confused....again. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
"*e#c" wrote in message ... On Nov 13, 9:38 pm, L G wrote: I am Tosk wrote: In articles_mdndsmToIIY0DRnZ2dnUVZ_vOdn...@giganews. com, says... YukonBound wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:25:30 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Do you have a USCG Master's license? Do you possess an intimate understanding of the Rules of the Road? I do. I do, too..... and I wouldn't dare own or operate a boat without sufficient insurance coverage. ESPECIALLY, commercially.... I can only assume a few things: One, you don't own a boat large enough to be kept in dry or wet storage. If you did, you'd be required by the marina to carry insurance...or Second, you have no assets and no real concern of liability.... can't squeeze blood from a turnip....or Third, you are so fabulously wealthy that not even an accident and subsequent fuel spill wouldn't faze you....or Fourth, most likely, you are infallible and inviolably lucky..... If I have the right guy... he owns a 27' mustard yellow Coronado sailboat c/w mauve interior that he keeps moored back in a swampy backwater in Florida. He has no fears because no one would bother to sue him for that boat or his postman's pension. Nice job improving the group, dummy! Donnie seems to keep getting a pass... No, WAFA gave him strict orders. He has no mind of his own so he will follow them. More " nothing " from the resident idiot, LG. I don't understand why all the 'righteous brothers' in here don't take LG/Larry/Kruger to task for his endless agitating, irritating and instigating. i suppose in one way, at least he's honest... doesn't hide who he is vs the 'do as I say, not as I do' *small* faction who are almost as disruptive but a little sneakier. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
YukonBound wrote:
"*e#c" wrote in message ... On Nov 13, 9:38 pm, L G wrote: I am Tosk wrote: In articles_mdndsmToIIY0DRnZ2dnUVZ_vOdn...@giganews. com, says... YukonBound wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:25:30 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: Do you have a USCG Master's license? Do you possess an intimate understanding of the Rules of the Road? I do. I do, too..... and I wouldn't dare own or operate a boat without sufficient insurance coverage. ESPECIALLY, commercially.... I can only assume a few things: One, you don't own a boat large enough to be kept in dry or wet storage. If you did, you'd be required by the marina to carry insurance...or Second, you have no assets and no real concern of liability.... can't squeeze blood from a turnip....or Third, you are so fabulously wealthy that not even an accident and subsequent fuel spill wouldn't faze you....or Fourth, most likely, you are infallible and inviolably lucky..... If I have the right guy... he owns a 27' mustard yellow Coronado sailboat c/w mauve interior that he keeps moored back in a swampy backwater in Florida. He has no fears because no one would bother to sue him for that boat or his postman's pension. Nice job improving the group, dummy! Donnie seems to keep getting a pass... No, WAFA gave him strict orders. He has no mind of his own so he will follow them. More " nothing " from the resident idiot, LG. I don't understand why all the 'righteous brothers' in here don't take LG/Larry/Kruger to task for his endless agitating, irritating and instigating. Interesting choice of words in a response to slammer. i suppose in one way, at least he's honest... doesn't hide who he is vs the 'do as I say, not as I do' *small* faction who are almost as disruptive but a little sneakier. Say what? |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:21:39 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote: Nice pix. I'd be worried, however, about all the washers for depth. Not possible to build in a bend to the tightening arm to bring it flush to the alternator? It's possible but I'd need to disassemble part of the heat exchanger to remove the adjusment arm, bend it and reinstall. What I've done since the pictures were taken is to replace the washer stack with a solid steel spacer. I've also replaced the original bolt with one that is longer so that it now projects all the way through the adjusment tab on the alternator, backed up by a grade 8 steel washer, lock washer and nut. The whole assembly is extremely rigid with no hint of vibration or flexing. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Nov 23, 12:24*am, I am Tosk
wrote: In article , says... On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:21:39 -0500, "Flying Pig" wrote: Nice pix. I'd be worried, however, about all the washers for depth. *Not possible to build in a bend to the tightening arm to bring it flush to the alternator? It's possible but I'd need to disassemble part of the heat exchanger to remove the adjusment arm, bend it and reinstall. *What I've done since the pictures were taken is to replace the washer stack with a solid steel spacer. * I've also replaced the original bolt with one that is longer so that it now projects all the way through the adjusment tab on the alternator, backed up by a grade 8 steel washer, lock washer and nut. * The whole assembly is extremely rigid with no hint of vibration or flexing. Sounds like a better solution, of course keep an eye on it and I would carry an extra bolt and spacer, washer, etc... Just in case. -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's not the bolt that will go. If it fails it will be the tongue on the alternator case that breaks. I have to agree that it looks like it would be ok though. A couple bends in the arm would be perfect but if you have to do a bunch of disassembly to get the arm off I can see wanting to avoid that. Looks like there is too much other stuff in there to heat and bend the arm in place. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:04:30 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc
wrote: Looks like there is too much other stuff in there to heat and bend the arm in place. Yes and the bends need to be done accurately to ensure that everything lines up when you're done. It really needs to be in a vice to bend it properly. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:21:39 -0500, "Flying Pig" wrote: Nice pix. I'd be worried, however, about all the washers for depth. Not possible to build in a bend to the tightening arm to bring it flush to the alternator? It's possible but I'd need to disassemble part of the heat exchanger to remove the adjusment arm, bend it and reinstall. What I've done since the pictures were taken is to replace the washer stack with a solid steel spacer. I've also replaced the original bolt with one that is longer so that it now projects all the way through the adjusment tab on the alternator, backed up by a grade 8 steel washer, lock washer and nut. The whole assembly is extremely rigid with no hint of vibration or flexing. Reply: I would watch the grade 8 for looseness. May be to high of grade bolt, may need a grade 5. To keep a bolt tight, you need to stretch it a little. In the elastic range and not the plastic range of the metal. Grade 8 bolts are hard to get a good stretch on. I would at least go with a nyloc nut. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
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The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:20:17 -0800, Mark Borgerson
wrote: That's a good point. One reason for lock washers on high-grade bolts is that they compress so you don't have to stretch the bolt. Another reason for a lock washer is differences in thermal expansion/contraction. If you tighten a steel bolt against an aluminum flange when both are hot, the flange will contract at a different rate than the bolt as it cools. The aluminum will contract at almost twice the linear rate of the steel bolt. Conversely, tightening the bolt when things are cool will increase the bolt tension when both are hot as the aluminum expands more. This is probably a good thing----especially as it lets you work without burning your hands! ;-) Balancing out all these factors is how mechanical engineers earn a living. The rest of us use LocTite! (Note, LocTite may keep you from losing the nut---it won't keep the belt tight in this application if the thermal factors aren't accounted for.) One thing that might help keep the belt tight is to use 60-grit sandpaper across the adjustment arm on the side facing the aluminum alternator flange. WHen you tighten down the bolt, the arm should press some grooves into the aluminum to act as interlocking 'teeth'. You should also be careful about overtorquing the bolt. Depending on the thread size, you could strip out the threads in the aluminum flange. Most of these issues are things you learn over the years as you maintain your boat. It sometimes helps to list the issues just to make sure something isn't being overlooked. Lots of good points there and thanks for the comments. For now everything is about as good as it's going to get for a while. We'll be putting some serious hours on the boat in January so I'll be keeping an eye on everything (and carrying a spare alternator or two). With three heavy duty belts in place I'm hoping that belt wear and slip will not be an issue. The old alternators were running fine on two belts but they couldn't keep up with the electrical loads. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Nov 24, 12:00*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:20:17 -0800, Mark Borgerson wrote: That's a good point. *One reason for lock washers on high-grade bolts is that they compress so you don't have to stretch the bolt. Another reason for a lock washer is differences in thermal expansion/contraction. * If you tighten a steel bolt against an aluminum flange when both are hot, *the flange will contract at a different rate than the bolt as it cools. * The aluminum will contract at almost twice the linear rate of the steel bolt. *Conversely, tightening the bolt when things are cool will increase the bolt tension when both are hot as the aluminum expands more. * This is probably a good thing----especially as it lets you work without burning your hands! * ;-) Balancing out all these factors is how mechanical engineers earn a living. *The rest of us use LocTite! * (Note, LocTite may keep you from losing the nut---it won't keep the belt tight in this application if the thermal factors aren't accounted for.) One thing that might help keep the belt tight is to use 60-grit sandpaper across the adjustment arm on the side facing the aluminum alternator flange. *WHen you tighten down the *bolt, the arm should press some grooves into the aluminum to act as interlocking 'teeth'. You should also be careful about overtorquing the bolt. *Depending on the thread size, you could strip out the threads in the aluminum flange. Most of these issues are things you learn over the years as you maintain your boat. *It sometimes helps to list the issues just to make sure something isn't being overlooked. Lots of good points there and thanks for the comments. For now everything is about as good as it's going to get for a while. We'll be putting some serious hours on the boat in January so I'll be keeping an eye on everything (and carrying a spare alternator or two). With three heavy duty belts in place I'm hoping that belt wear and slip will not be an issue. *The old alternators were running fine on two belts but they couldn't keep up with the electrical loads.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That will be a good test. I am inclined to agree with some of the other posters about the amount of electricity you seem to need. It would have been a lot simpler to look for ways to reduce the power requirement rather than engineer a solution to supply that much power. If you cook with propane then what do you really need besides lights and power for the electronics? |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On 11/30/10 8:49 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Nov 24, 12:00 pm, wrote: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:20:17 -0800, Mark Borgerson wrote: That's a good point. One reason for lock washers on high-grade bolts is that they compress so you don't have to stretch the bolt. Another reason for a lock washer is differences in thermal expansion/contraction. If you tighten a steel bolt against an aluminum flange when both are hot, the flange will contract at a different rate than the bolt as it cools. The aluminum will contract at almost twice the linear rate of the steel bolt. Conversely, tightening the bolt when things are cool will increase the bolt tension when both are hot as the aluminum expands more. This is probably a good thing----especially as it lets you work without burning your hands! ;-) Balancing out all these factors is how mechanical engineers earn a living. The rest of us use LocTite! (Note, LocTite may keep you from losing the nut---it won't keep the belt tight in this application if the thermal factors aren't accounted for.) One thing that might help keep the belt tight is to use 60-grit sandpaper across the adjustment arm on the side facing the aluminum alternator flange. WHen you tighten down the bolt, the arm should press some grooves into the aluminum to act as interlocking 'teeth'. You should also be careful about overtorquing the bolt. Depending on the thread size, you could strip out the threads in the aluminum flange. Most of these issues are things you learn over the years as you maintain your boat. It sometimes helps to list the issues just to make sure something isn't being overlooked. Lots of good points there and thanks for the comments. For now everything is about as good as it's going to get for a while. We'll be putting some serious hours on the boat in January so I'll be keeping an eye on everything (and carrying a spare alternator or two). With three heavy duty belts in place I'm hoping that belt wear and slip will not be an issue. The old alternators were running fine on two belts but they couldn't keep up with the electrical loads.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That will be a good test. I am inclined to agree with some of the other posters about the amount of electricity you seem to need. It would have been a lot simpler to look for ways to reduce the power requirement rather than engineer a solution to supply that much power. If you cook with propane then what do you really need besides lights and power for the electronics? Air conditioning, the jacuzzi, the double self-cleaning ovens, the offshore pirate radio station...all require 'lectricity. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 05:49:55 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc
wrote: That will be a good test. I am inclined to agree with some of the other posters about the amount of electricity you seem to need. It would have been a lot simpler to look for ways to reduce the power requirement rather than engineer a solution to supply that much power. If you cook with propane then what do you really need besides lights and power for the electronics? It's really an all electric boat. It has large built-in fridges and freezers, each with its own 110 volt compressor. Each one draws about 1 KW of power while running which is the primary demand while underway, translating to about 100 amps at 12 volts. That power is supplied from a 2 KW inverter when underway and we manage the load manually by switching between the fridge and freezer every so often. In addition to the compressors we average another 300 watts for computers and other small electronics, so that's a steady requirement for 100 to 130 amps at 12 volts just to supply the inverter. In addition we have 12 volt house loads averaging about 30 amps for things like radar, GPS units, multiple radios, auto pilot, etc. We also have a house bank totaling about 1,000 amp-hours which supplies the inverter at night. It needs to be recharged in the morning after getting underway. That can easily consume another 100 amps during the bulk stage of the recharge cycle. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
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The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Nov 30, 9:58*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 05:49:55 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: That will be a good test. I am inclined to agree with some of the other posters about the amount of electricity you seem to need. *It would have been a lot simpler to look for ways to reduce the power requirement rather than engineer a solution to supply that much power. *If you cook with propane then what do you really need besides lights and power for the electronics? It's really an all electric boat. * It has large built-in fridges and freezers, each with its own 110 volt compressor. *Each one draws about 1 KW of power while running which is the primary demand while underway, translating to about 100 amps at 12 volts. *That power is supplied from a 2 KW inverter when underway and we manage the load manually by switching between the fridge and freezer every so often. In addition to the compressors we average another 300 watts for computers and other small electronics, so that's a steady requirement for 100 to 130 amps at 12 volts just to supply the inverter. *In addition we have 12 volt house loads averaging about 30 amps for things like radar, GPS units, multiple radios, auto pilot, etc. * We also have a house bank totaling about 1,000 amp-hours which supplies the inverter at night. * It needs to be recharged in the morning after getting underway. * That can easily consume another 100 amps during the bulk stage of the recharge cycle. How many people is it that you have to support? What's the length of your offshore periods? |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:01:15 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc
wrote: On Nov 30, 9:58*am, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 05:49:55 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc wrote: That will be a good test. I am inclined to agree with some of the other posters about the amount of electricity you seem to need. *It would have been a lot simpler to look for ways to reduce the power requirement rather than engineer a solution to supply that much power. *If you cook with propane then what do you really need besides lights and power for the electronics? It's really an all electric boat. * It has large built-in fridges and freezers, each with its own 110 volt compressor. *Each one draws about 1 KW of power while running which is the primary demand while underway, translating to about 100 amps at 12 volts. *That power is supplied from a 2 KW inverter when underway and we manage the load manually by switching between the fridge and freezer every so often. In addition to the compressors we average another 300 watts for computers and other small electronics, so that's a steady requirement for 100 to 130 amps at 12 volts just to supply the inverter. *In addition we have 12 volt house loads averaging about 30 amps for things like radar, GPS units, multiple radios, auto pilot, etc. * We also have a house bank totaling about 1,000 amp-hours which supplies the inverter at night. * It needs to be recharged in the morning after getting underway. * That can easily consume another 100 amps during the bulk stage of the recharge cycle. How many people is it that you have to support? What's the length of your offshore periods? Usually it is just my wife and I. We spent the first 6 months of this year island hopping in the Caribbean and Bahamian Out Islands. Availability of supplies is inconsistent and expensive so we bring a lot of frozen food from home and restock when and where we can. |
The Ultimate Alternator Project
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