HarryK wrote:
On 11/11/10 5:21 PM, HarryK wrote:
On 11/10/2010 5:29 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2010 17:20:02 -0500, wrote:


Pentagon can't explain 'missile' off California

WASHINGTON (A) – The Pentagon said Tuesday it was trying to determine
if a missile was launched Monday off the coast of Southern California
and, if so, who might have fired it.

has sarah palin been playing with grown up toys again?

I thought we agreed

ID Spoofer...again. When you ignore their other IDs here, they ID Spoof.
Only if you really **** them off.

On 11/12/10 7:29 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 14:18:10 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:31 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:41:16 -0500, I am Tosk

wrote:
Read the article... Saw dozens of reports, experts "on both sides" and I
believe myself it was "message" from some axis power saying "see, we can
sit in your back yard and you didn't even know we were there". That's
why it went due west.

Interesting conspiracy theory but if fails the Occam's Razor test
which basically says that the simplest explanation is more likely to
be correct. The two most plausible (and simple) explanations are
that it was indeed a jet contrail observed from an unusual angle; or
two, that it was a classified US govt misile launch which take place
fairly often in coastal California. One of my old high school friends
is alleged to participate in that sort of thing (if they actually
exist). :-)

I had a friend from my high power rocket days that is actually a
"rocket scientist". A few years ago he showed me some pictures of a
mobile Scud Launcher, with Scud, that is sitting complete right here
in the US. Was brought over intact and completely functional. At the
time it's existence and location was classified, so he couldn't tell
me where it was. A couple of pictures later was a shot of an
interstate entrance sign with a city in the background. He just
smiled... wasn't too far from where I live.

Point is that the gov does stuff like this all the time. Classified
launches, denial of existence, etc. If the general public knew what
was actually going on, most would probably freak out.

Wayne, Mike, Scott, Jack, harry. et.al.,

With all due respect, this conspiracy stuff is bull feathers as my
maternal Grandfather used to say in polite company and drives me nuts.

Yes, there are "secret" launches of different types of spy sats and
one time and one time only launches for scientific or other specific
purposes. However, these aren't normal launches in the sense that
they stick a satellite on a repurpossed Trident or Posiden ICBM and
launch it 35 miles off the coast of Los Angeles from a submarine or
carrier or frigate or barge. They are usually midnight launches far
away from cities or announced launches with cooperation from Eurosat
in French Guiana, Vanderburg or somewhere in the desert. The payloads
are never discussed or hidden behind the phrase "a Navy, Air Force -
whatever" mission.

Secondly, a quick launch spy sats are usually done from aircraft
believe it or not. That's because they are small and don't require a
lot of launch capacity for two reasons: one time use and VLO (Very
Low Orbit) trajectories. They are only intended to stay up for two,
maybe three passes in the very tipitty top upper reaches of the
atmosphere and then they burn up on reentry. And they have the extra
added advantage of being chucked up in space relatively close to their
targets so they don't waste a pass.

When I was involved with AMSAT back in the ARRL days, we had OSCAR
sats bumped several times from Ariane rockets for "undisclosed"
reasons. So there's that. :)

With respect to "seeing Scott pick his nose from space" - no, that
capability does not exist unless they are using a high altitude plane
and ever then there is incredible distortion - you have to have
absoutely clear air to get a decent resolution. A picture taken at
100,000 feet will only resolve to 1 mile altitude at best. The best
picture from any spy satellite is only resolved to an altitude of 5
miles on a clear day with high pressure atmosphere above the target.
While Scott does have a rather huge honker, its highly unlikely that
one can see him pick it from a mile away. :)

So, as Wayne said - it's Occum's Razor. Time and place and
circumstances dictate it's a contrail.

Sorry - I'm feeling particularly fiesty today. :)


Hey, I'm not claiming a conspiracy. I'm simply underwhelmed by "military
intelligence." I don't know what was sighted and from what I have read
so far, neither does anyone else. The military claims it was a contrail.
Maybe, maybe not.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 07:29:35 -0500, W1TEF wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 14:18:10 -0800 (PST), Jack
wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:31*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:41:16 -0500, I am Tosk

wrote:
Read the article... Saw dozens of reports, experts "on both sides" and I
believe myself it was "message" from some axis power saying "see, we can
sit in your back yard and you didn't even know we were there". That's
why it went due west.

Interesting conspiracy theory but if fails the Occam's Razor test
which basically says that the simplest explanation is more likely to
be correct. * The two most plausible (and simple) explanations are
that it was indeed a jet contrail observed from an unusual angle; or
two, that it was a classified US govt misile launch which take place
fairly often in coastal California. *One of my old high school friends
is alleged to participate in that sort of thing (if they actually
exist). * :-)

I had a friend from my high power rocket days that is actually a
"rocket scientist". A few years ago he showed me some pictures of a
mobile Scud Launcher, with Scud, that is sitting complete right here
in the US. Was brought over intact and completely functional. At the
time it's existence and location was classified, so he couldn't tell
me where it was. A couple of pictures later was a shot of an
interstate entrance sign with a city in the background. He just
smiled... wasn't too far from where I live.

Point is that the gov does stuff like this all the time. Classified
launches, denial of existence, etc. If the general public knew what
was actually going on, most would probably freak out.

Wayne, Mike, Scott, Jack, harry. et.al.,

With all due respect, this conspiracy stuff is bull feathers as my
maternal Grandfather used to say in polite company and drives me nuts.

Yes, there are "secret" launches of different types of spy sats and
one time and one time only launches for scientific or other specific
purposes. However, these aren't normal launches in the sense that
they stick a satellite on a repurpossed Trident or Posiden ICBM and
launch it 35 miles off the coast of Los Angeles from a submarine or
carrier or frigate or barge. They are usually midnight launches far
away from cities or announced launches with cooperation from Eurosat
in French Guiana, Vanderburg or somewhere in the desert. The payloads
are never discussed or hidden behind the phrase "a Navy, Air Force -
whatever" mission.

Secondly, a quick launch spy sats are usually done from aircraft
believe it or not. That's because they are small and don't require a
lot of launch capacity for two reasons: one time use and VLO (Very
Low Orbit) trajectories. They are only intended to stay up for two,
maybe three passes in the very tipitty top upper reaches of the
atmosphere and then they burn up on reentry. And they have the extra
added advantage of being chucked up in space relatively close to their
targets so they don't waste a pass.

When I was involved with AMSAT back in the ARRL days, we had OSCAR
sats bumped several times from Ariane rockets for "undisclosed"
reasons. So there's that. :)

With respect to "seeing Scott pick his nose from space" - no, that
capability does not exist unless they are using a high altitude plane
and ever then there is incredible distortion - you have to have
absoutely clear air to get a decent resolution. A picture taken at
100,000 feet will only resolve to 1 mile altitude at best. The best
picture from any spy satellite is only resolved to an altitude of 5
miles on a clear day with high pressure atmosphere above the target.
While Scott does have a rather huge honker, its highly unlikely that
one can see him pick it from a mile away. :)

So, as Wayne said - it's Occum's Razor. Time and place and
circumstances dictate it's a contrail.

Sorry - I'm feeling particularly fiesty today. :)

You and Dale need to stay out of the Megafortress. :)
--

Hope you're having a great day!

John H

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 07:29:35 -0500, W1TEF
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 14:18:10 -0800 (PST), Jack
wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:31*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:41:16 -0500, I am Tosk

wrote:
Read the article... Saw dozens of reports, experts "on both sides" and I
believe myself it was "message" from some axis power saying "see, we can
sit in your back yard and you didn't even know we were there". That's
why it went due west.

Interesting conspiracy theory but if fails the Occam's Razor test
which basically says that the simplest explanation is more likely to
be correct. * The two most plausible (and simple) explanations are
that it was indeed a jet contrail observed from an unusual angle; or
two, that it was a classified US govt misile launch which take place
fairly often in coastal California. *One of my old high school friends
is alleged to participate in that sort of thing (if they actually
exist). * :-)

I had a friend from my high power rocket days that is actually a
"rocket scientist". A few years ago he showed me some pictures of a
mobile Scud Launcher, with Scud, that is sitting complete right here
in the US. Was brought over intact and completely functional. At the
time it's existence and location was classified, so he couldn't tell
me where it was. A couple of pictures later was a shot of an
interstate entrance sign with a city in the background. He just
smiled... wasn't too far from where I live.

Point is that the gov does stuff like this all the time. Classified
launches, denial of existence, etc. If the general public knew what
was actually going on, most would probably freak out.

Wayne, Mike, Scott, Jack, harry. et.al.,

With all due respect, this conspiracy stuff is bull feathers as my
maternal Grandfather used to say in polite company and drives me nuts.

Yes, there are "secret" launches of different types of spy sats and
one time and one time only launches for scientific or other specific
purposes. However, these aren't normal launches in the sense that
they stick a satellite on a repurpossed Trident or Posiden ICBM and
launch it 35 miles off the coast of Los Angeles from a submarine or
carrier or frigate or barge. They are usually midnight launches far
away from cities or announced launches with cooperation from Eurosat
in French Guiana, Vanderburg or somewhere in the desert. The payloads
are never discussed or hidden behind the phrase "a Navy, Air Force -
whatever" mission.

Secondly, a quick launch spy sats are usually done from aircraft
believe it or not. That's because they are small and don't require a
lot of launch capacity for two reasons: one time use and VLO (Very
Low Orbit) trajectories. They are only intended to stay up for two,
maybe three passes in the very tipitty top upper reaches of the
atmosphere and then they burn up on reentry. And they have the extra
added advantage of being chucked up in space relatively close to their
targets so they don't waste a pass.

When I was involved with AMSAT back in the ARRL days, we had OSCAR
sats bumped several times from Ariane rockets for "undisclosed"
reasons. So there's that. :)

With respect to "seeing Scott pick his nose from space" - no, that
capability does not exist unless they are using a high altitude plane
and ever then there is incredible distortion - you have to have
absoutely clear air to get a decent resolution. A picture taken at
100,000 feet will only resolve to 1 mile altitude at best. The best
picture from any spy satellite is only resolved to an altitude of 5
miles on a clear day with high pressure atmosphere above the target.
While Scott does have a rather huge honker, its highly unlikely that
one can see him pick it from a mile away. :)

So, as Wayne said - it's Occum's Razor. Time and place and
circumstances dictate it's a contrail.

Sorry - I'm feeling particularly fiesty today. :)

Vandenberg.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:08:27 -0800, jps wrote:



Vandenberg.
Reminds me of the day that when we left San Diego airport on a SW
flight heading to SFO. Female pilot announced that she would try to
time her arrival over Vandenberg where a missile shot was scheduled
that evening. She arrived just in time, tipped the aircraft slightly
to the left and we saw the ignition, lift off and slow climb to about
20K ft. where it then slowly headed west leaving a spectacular
colorful contrail. Later we read it was an ICBM launch and that it's
target was somewhere far in the Pacific about 4K miles away.
It was an awesome sight to see.
Eddie

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:08:27 -0800, jps wrote:



Vandenberg.
Reminds me of the day that when we left San Diego airport on a SW
flight heading to SFO. Female pilot announced that she would try to
time her arrival over Vandenberg where a missile shot was scheduled
that evening. She arrived just in time, tipped the aircraft slightly
to the left and we saw the ignition, lift off and slow climb to about
20K ft. where it then slowly headed west leaving a spectacular
colorful contrail. Later we read it was an ICBM launch and that it's
target was somewhere far in the Pacific about 4K miles away.
It was an awesome sight to see.
Eddie

"W1TEF" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:45:51 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/10/10 6:23 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2010 17:20:02 -0500, wrote:

Pentagon can't explain 'missile' off California

That's because it's not a missile - it's a contrail.

http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

Maybe.

No maybe about it.

Not to mention a contrail from a jet usually spreads out a ways behind
the aircraft. The front of the trail is usually thin until the wind
spreads it... This trail was thick right off the ass of the missile, and
make no mistake, it was a missile, as it headed west downrange... oh,
and they know what it was too...

Did you read the freakin' article Scott?

Unmentioned in this whole thing is that nobody HEARD anything. If a
missile supposedly as large as this one supposedly was (ICBM), you
would have heard it - even from 35 miles away. Those things aren't
quiet.


Plus if it was an ICBM, you would of seen it staging. and the staging
exhaust spreads way out and stays for awhile.

On 11/14/10 6:44 PM, Califbill wrote:
"W1TEF" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:45:51 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/10/10 6:23 AM, W1TEF wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2010 17:20:02 -0500, wrote:

Pentagon can't explain 'missile' off California

That's because it's not a missile - it's a contrail.

http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

Maybe.

No maybe about it.

Not to mention a contrail from a jet usually spreads out a ways behind
the aircraft. The front of the trail is usually thin until the wind
spreads it... This trail was thick right off the ass of the missile, and
make no mistake, it was a missile, as it headed west downrange... oh,
and they know what it was too...

Did you read the freakin' article Scott?

Unmentioned in this whole thing is that nobody HEARD anything. If a
missile supposedly as large as this one supposedly was (ICBM), you
would have heard it - even from 35 miles away. Those things aren't
quiet.


Plus if it was an ICBM, you would of seen it staging. and the staging
exhaust spreads way out and stays for awhile.


It was a new, supersecret "stealth" missile with a bunch of auto
mufflers on the back end.