The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating
money until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/

Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they want
the Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On 9/30/10 4:54 PM, Canuck57 wrote:

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating money
until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/


Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they want
the Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.


Wait...we're supposed to give credence to an anonymous economic
prognosticating crackpot like you, a self-described "offshore"
manufacturer of equally anonymous goods?

--
Republicans are the Party of No:
No Leaders / No Ideas / No Morals

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On 9/30/2010 3:02 PM, Secular Humoresque wrote:
On 9/30/10 4:54 PM, Canuck57 wrote:

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating money
until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/



Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they want
the Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.


Wait...we're supposed to give credence to an anonymous economic
prognosticating crackpot like you, a self-described "offshore"
manufacturer of equally anonymous goods?

Funny, going to buy a TV shortly, from one of those "offshore"
manufacturers of equally anonymous goods because here in North America,
we don't even make them let alone cheaply and reliably. Nobody wants to
work any more, just finance their lifestyle with debt.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating money
until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/

Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they want the
Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

Nuckles, nuckles... the Fed can't go bankrupt. Learn to use google. Google
is your friend.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"A.Boater" wrote in message
...

No. Now, calm down and take your meds.

Umm... that's him _on_ his meds.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:32:41 -0400, wrote:



Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

john maynard keynes once said, if you owe the bank $1000 you have a
problem. if you owe it $1M, they have a problem

china's not going to dump anything. you think they want to lose money?

what planet you right wingers live on?

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:55:44 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating
money
until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/

Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they want
the
Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

Nuckles, nuckles... the Fed can't go bankrupt. Learn to use google. Google
is your friend.


Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

As I said, it can't go bankrupt.

It would certainly hurt them bad but it would kill us. The Chinese
expect tanks in the street to kick them back into the fold but we
would not survive as a country if it happens here.

No, actually, the reverse is true. It would hurt us and wipe them out.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:32:41 -0400, wrote:



Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

john maynard keynes once said, if you owe the bank $1000 you have a
problem. if you owe it $1M, they have a problem

china's not going to dump anything. you think they want to lose money?

what planet you right wingers live on?

That is the same kind of logic that said Japan would never attack
Pearl Harbor.

Actually, there's some dispute about us knowing or not knowing about the
impending attack.

Short term money loss is not the only thing some countries think
about, even if that is such a strange concept to us.

We've had a very stable, long-term monetary policy in the US up until
recently... about the time of Reagan. Between the Depression and then, we
had recessions but nothing severe. Then, the regs got removed and/or gutted.
We see the result. We need to learn from our mistakes and reinstitute the
policies that stabilized our economy.

China is in better shape to come out of a global depression than we
are and they will own the world when they do.

No they aren't. They're a much more rigid society. Millions would die if
their economy went bust.

The rich people here will be fine, they already operate quite well in
the global economy. It will be your middle class that becomes serfs in
a neo-colonial America growing food, cutting wood and mining
materials for China.
To some extent we already are.

The rich people are usually fine. So what. The middle class would be hurt
but would recover.

This is yet again a case of Chicken Little (no offense intended).

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:26:27 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:32:41 -0400, wrote:



Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

john maynard keynes once said, if you owe the bank $1000 you have a
problem. if you owe it $1M, they have a problem

china's not going to dump anything. you think they want to lose money?

what planet you right wingers live on?

That is the same kind of logic that said Japan would never attack
Pearl Harbor.

Actually, there's some dispute about us knowing or not knowing about the
impending attack.

Ah the old "FDR caused the attack to get us in the war" theory.
That usually comes from right wingers. I'm surprised.

Well, it's certainly true that FDR knew that we would be drawn into war in
Europe.


Short term money loss is not the only thing some countries think
about, even if that is such a strange concept to us.

We've had a very stable, long-term monetary policy in the US up until
recently... about the time of Reagan. Between the Depression and then, we
had recessions but nothing severe. Then, the regs got removed and/or
gutted.
We see the result. We need to learn from our mistakes and reinstitute the
policies that stabilized our economy.


The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world. These days most of our exports
to China are raw materials. We sell them scrap iron and they sell us
consumer goods. The real profit is in the manufacturing, not
collecting and shipping scrap iron.

Actually, the situation with China is improving...

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...5700.html#1990

Which isn't something I really considered. Look at the timeline...


China is in better shape to come out of a global depression than we
are and they will own the world when they do.

No they aren't. They're a much more rigid society. Millions would die if
their economy went bust.

They have 1.3 billion, they can afford to lose a few million but it is
unlikely it would be that bad. A global depression and fionancial
collapse could set us back over 100 years. For most of China it would
just set them back a decade or so and they are better equipped to
recover.

Wow... you're a great humanitarian! A few million here and there... after a
while it becomes a bad thing I guess... with apologies to Everett Dirksen.

The rich people here will be fine, they already operate quite well in
the global economy. It will be your middle class that becomes serfs in
a neo-colonial America growing food, cutting wood and mining
materials for China.
To some extent we already are.

The rich people are usually fine. So what. The middle class would be hurt
but would recover.

Recover doing what? This isn't 1929. Our problem is not excess
capacity with no place to sell it. We don't have the ability to
produce much. We sold our factories to Mexico and China.

The facts just don't support this statement.

In the 90s.we thought we would dominate the world in the internet
business but we found out there is really not much employment there.
One guy sitting at a PC arranging drop shipments from Asia is not as
much of an employer as a whole brick and mortar store chain, then they
figured out the guy on the PC could be overseas too. (Clinton's
recession)
In the 2000s we filled that gap building houses, until the market was
so flooded that we may not work through the inventory for years to
come. (the current recession)
Now we are just staring into the hole that used to be American
industry and wondering what is next?

This is yet again a case of Chicken Little (no offense intended).

OK everything is fine, thanks, now I know my kids will be OK.

Economies was and wane. There are plenty of things we export.

http://www.suite101.com/content/top-...s-2009-a204269

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:13:19 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:32:41 -0400, wrote:



Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

john maynard keynes once said, if you owe the bank $1000 you have a
problem. if you owe it $1M, they have a problem

china's not going to dump anything. you think they want to lose money?

what planet you right wingers live on?

That is the same kind of logic that said Japan would never attack
Pearl Harbor.

so your argument is that china will take a trillion dollar loss? has
that ever happened? all you have to do is point out an event in
history and you'll have an argument

Short term money loss is not the only thing some countries think
about, even if that is such a strange concept to us.
China is in better shape to come out of a global depression than we
are and they will own the world when they do.

we're in such a depression now, remember. they aren't dumping
anything. so your experiment doesnt work

The rich people here will be fine, they already operate quite well in
the global economy. It will be your middle class that becomes serfs in
a neo-colonial America growing food, cutting wood and mining
materials for China.

they already are becoming serfs. they just dont realize it. a recent
study shows that americans have NO idea how skewed income and wealth
are in this country. and the right is certainly helping to keep this a
secret

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:



The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:26:27 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:32:41 -0400, wrote:



Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

john maynard keynes once said, if you owe the bank $1000 you have a
problem. if you owe it $1M, they have a problem

china's not going to dump anything. you think they want to lose money?

what planet you right wingers live on?

That is the same kind of logic that said Japan would never attack
Pearl Harbor.

Actually, there's some dispute about us knowing or not knowing about the
impending attack.

Ah the old "FDR caused the attack to get us in the war" theory.
That usually comes from right wingers. I'm surprised.

Short term money loss is not the only thing some countries think
about, even if that is such a strange concept to us.

We've had a very stable, long-term monetary policy in the US up until
recently... about the time of Reagan. Between the Depression and then, we
had recessions but nothing severe. Then, the regs got removed and/or gutted.
We see the result. We need to learn from our mistakes and reinstitute the
policies that stabilized our economy.


The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world. These days most of our exports
to China are raw materials. We sell them scrap iron and they sell us
consumer goods. The real profit is in the manufacturing, not
collecting and shipping scrap iron.

China is in better shape to come out of a global depression than we
are and they will own the world when they do.

No they aren't. They're a much more rigid society. Millions would die if
their economy went bust.

They have 1.3 billion, they can afford to lose a few million but it is
unlikely it would be that bad. A global depression and fionancial
collapse could set us back over 100 years. For most of China it would
just set them back a decade or so and they are better equipped to
recover.

The rich people here will be fine, they already operate quite well in
the global economy. It will be your middle class that becomes serfs in
a neo-colonial America growing food, cutting wood and mining
materials for China.
To some extent we already are.

The rich people are usually fine. So what. The middle class would be hurt
but would recover.

Recover doing what? This isn't 1929. Our problem is not excess
capacity with no place to sell it. We don't have the ability to
produce much. We sold our factories to Mexico and China.
In the 90s.we thought we would dominate the world in the internet
business but we found out there is really not much employment there.
One guy sitting at a PC arranging drop shipments from Asia is not as
much of an employer as a whole brick and mortar store chain, then they
figured out the guy on the PC could be overseas too. (Clinton's
recession)
In the 2000s we filled that gap building houses, until the market was
so flooded that we may not work through the inventory for years to
come. (the current recession)
Now we are just staring into the hole that used to be American
industry and wondering what is next?

This is yet again a case of Chicken Little (no offense intended).

OK everything is fine, thanks, now I know my kids will be OK.


Another case of a well presented, logical argument being shrugged off with a
liberal cliche because depoop couldn't think of a counter.

Nice job. Wasted though.
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ...


Greg:
The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world. These days most of our exports
to China are raw materials. We sell them scrap iron and they sell us
consumer goods. The real profit is in the manufacturing, not
collecting and shipping scrap iron.

Greg:
Recover doing what? This isn't 1929. Our problem is not excess
capacity with no place to sell it. We don't have the ability to
produce much. We sold our factories to Mexico and China.

Plume:
The facts just don't support this statement.

Economies was and wane. There are plenty of things we export.

http://www.suite101.com/content/top-...s-2009-a204269




Earth to Plume! Which planet is teleporting your "facts" to you?


--
Harry
"The 'C' students run the world."

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:55:44 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating
money
until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/

Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they want
the
Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

Nuckles, nuckles... the Fed can't go bankrupt. Learn to use google. Google
is your friend.


Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

As I said, it can't go bankrupt.

It would certainly hurt them bad but it would kill us. The Chinese
expect tanks in the street to kick them back into the fold but we
would not survive as a country if it happens here.

No, actually, the reverse is true. It would hurt us and wipe them out.



What logic supports your theory?

--
Harry
"The 'C' students run the world."

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Oct 1, 3:59*am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions. Less manufacturing = less unions. Unions priced themselves
out of the market, and people like you killed manufacturing by buying
cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 23:16:03 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world. These days most of our exports
to China are raw materials. We sell them scrap iron and they sell us
consumer goods. The real profit is in the manufacturing, not
collecting and shipping scrap iron.

Actually, the situation with China is improving...

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...5700.html#1990

Which isn't something I really considered. Look at the timeline...


Yeah I looked. In 1895 we exported 99% of what we imported from China
Through most of the 2000s the range was 16-20%.
In 2009 it was 26% and it was 25% this year so far with the
traditional largest quarter yet to be reported.
Is that the trend you were talking about?

The difference between the imports and exports changed significantly in 2001
and beyond. This year it will be slightly worse. The sky isn't falling, at
least not very quickly, and given that we've pretty much always had a trade
imbalance, I think that's a fair assessment.


China is in better shape to come out of a global depression than we
are and they will own the world when they do.

No they aren't. They're a much more rigid society. Millions would die if
their economy went bust.

They have 1.3 billion, they can afford to lose a few million but it is
unlikely it would be that bad. A global depression and fionancial
collapse could set us back over 100 years. For most of China it would
just set them back a decade or so and they are better equipped to
recover.

Wow... you're a great humanitarian! A few million here and there... after
a
while it becomes a bad thing I guess... with apologies to Everett Dirksen.


War is hell. We have seen the Chinese fight before. Losing people is
not a big deal to them.

But, it's ok with you, apparently. So, we have a few (regrettable) suicides,
more people are unemployed for a time, more people lose their homes, perhaps
even bread lines, and in contrast millions die in China, so that means,
according to your logic the Chinese fair better????

The rich people here will be fine, they already operate quite well in
the global economy. It will be your middle class that becomes serfs in
a neo-colonial America growing food, cutting wood and mining
materials for China.
To some extent we already are.

The rich people are usually fine. So what. The middle class would be
hurt
but would recover.

Recover doing what? This isn't 1929. Our problem is not excess
capacity with no place to sell it. We don't have the ability to
produce much. We sold our factories to Mexico and China.

The facts just don't support this statement.


Go to any store, pick up just about anything and see where it came
from.

So, you want us to compete to make plastic toys? Well, actually, what gets
produced here doesn't usually have a lead problem.

In the 90s.we thought we would dominate the world in the internet
business but we found out there is really not much employment there.
One guy sitting at a PC arranging drop shipments from Asia is not as
much of an employer as a whole brick and mortar store chain, then they
figured out the guy on the PC could be overseas too. (Clinton's
recession)
In the 2000s we filled that gap building houses, until the market was
so flooded that we may not work through the inventory for years to
come. (the current recession)
Now we are just staring into the hole that used to be American
industry and wondering what is next?

This is yet again a case of Chicken Little (no offense intended).

OK everything is fine, thanks, now I know my kids will be OK.

Economies was and wane. There are plenty of things we export.

http://www.suite101.com/content/top-...s-2009-a204269


This seems like a good list to me...


# Civilian aircraft including parts . US$74.7 billion, up 1% from 2008
(7.1% of total US exports)
# Medicinal, dental and pharmaceutical preparations . $46.1 billion,
up 14.1% (4.4%)
# Semiconductors . $37.5 billion, down 26% (3.5%)
# Other industrial machines . $30.9 billion, down 19.1% (2.9%)
# Automotive parts and accessories . $30 billion, down 24.6% (2.8%)
# Telecommunications equipment . $28.7 billion, down 12.6% (2.7%)
# Passenger cars . $27.5 billion, down 44.5% (2.6%)
# Medicinal equipment . $26.9 billion, down 0.5% (2.5%)
# Electric apparatus . $26.1 billion, down 15.5% (2.5%)
# Plastic materials . $25.5 billion, down 19.3% (2.4%).

8 of the top 10 are going down. Not an encouraging trend.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:42:14 -0400, wrote:

Yeah I looked. In 1895 we exported 99% of what we imported from China


Where are the typo police when you need them ... 1985

lol

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 03:59:32 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:



The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

The unions caused it to some degree by making our workers too
expensive to compete in a world market and not being willing to budge.
The only states that are growing in manufacturing capacity are the
non-union states.

You really can't blame the unions for screwed up, exploitive management
practices that caused the unions to be formed in the first place.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On Oct 1, 3:59 am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions. Less manufacturing = less unions. Unions priced themselves
out of the market, and people like you killed manufacturing by buying
cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.

Sure.. you're right, except for the root cause of union creation... BAD
MANAGEMENT.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:26:27 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:32:41 -0400, wrote:



Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

john maynard keynes once said, if you owe the bank $1000 you have a
problem. if you owe it $1M, they have a problem

china's not going to dump anything. you think they want to lose money?

what planet you right wingers live on?

That is the same kind of logic that said Japan would never attack
Pearl Harbor.

Actually, there's some dispute about us knowing or not knowing about the
impending attack.

Ah the old "FDR caused the attack to get us in the war" theory.
That usually comes from right wingers. I'm surprised.

Short term money loss is not the only thing some countries think
about, even if that is such a strange concept to us.

We've had a very stable, long-term monetary policy in the US up until
recently... about the time of Reagan. Between the Depression and then, we
had recessions but nothing severe. Then, the regs got removed and/or
gutted.
We see the result. We need to learn from our mistakes and reinstitute the
policies that stabilized our economy.


The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world. These days most of our exports
to China are raw materials. We sell them scrap iron and they sell us
consumer goods. The real profit is in the manufacturing, not
collecting and shipping scrap iron.

China is in better shape to come out of a global depression than we
are and they will own the world when they do.

No they aren't. They're a much more rigid society. Millions would die if
their economy went bust.

They have 1.3 billion, they can afford to lose a few million but it is
unlikely it would be that bad. A global depression and fionancial
collapse could set us back over 100 years. For most of China it would
just set them back a decade or so and they are better equipped to
recover.

The rich people here will be fine, they already operate quite well in
the global economy. It will be your middle class that becomes serfs in
a neo-colonial America growing food, cutting wood and mining
materials for China.
To some extent we already are.

The rich people are usually fine. So what. The middle class would be hurt
but would recover.

Recover doing what? This isn't 1929. Our problem is not excess
capacity with no place to sell it. We don't have the ability to
produce much. We sold our factories to Mexico and China.
In the 90s.we thought we would dominate the world in the internet
business but we found out there is really not much employment there.
One guy sitting at a PC arranging drop shipments from Asia is not as
much of an employer as a whole brick and mortar store chain, then they
figured out the guy on the PC could be overseas too. (Clinton's
recession)
In the 2000s we filled that gap building houses, until the market was
so flooded that we may not work through the inventory for years to
come. (the current recession)
Now we are just staring into the hole that used to be American
industry and wondering what is next?

This is yet again a case of Chicken Little (no offense intended).

OK everything is fine, thanks, now I know my kids will be OK.


Another case of a well presented, logical argument being shrugged off with
a
liberal cliche because depoop couldn't think of a counter.

Nice job. Wasted though.
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

Wow... you sure contributed NOTHING to this thread! Keep up the great work
representing your viewpoint!

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On 10/1/10 1:34 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On Oct 1, 3:59 am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions. Less manufacturing = less unions. Unions priced themselves
out of the market, and people like you killed manufacturing by buying
cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.

Sure.. you're right, except for the root cause of union creation... BAD
MANAGEMENT.




Manufacturers left the USA not because they weren't making profit...they
simply did not think they were making enough profit. Greed took over,
big time.

Prices for most consumer items are far higher than they ever were when
they were made in the USA by unionized workforces and labor charges in
the Pacific Rim are not much better than slave labor rates.

You figure out the rest.


--
Republicans are the Party of No:
No Leaders / No Ideas / No Morals

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 03:57:38 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:13:19 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:32:41 -0400, wrote:



Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

john maynard keynes once said, if you owe the bank $1000 you have a
problem. if you owe it $1M, they have a problem

china's not going to dump anything. you think they want to lose money?

what planet you right wingers live on?

That is the same kind of logic that said Japan would never attack
Pearl Harbor.

so your argument is that china will take a trillion dollar loss? has
that ever happened? all you have to do is point out an event in
history and you'll have an argument


They are already braced to take that loss. China is smart enough to
see our current system is unsustainable. The only question is whether
they want to get out while the dollar is still strong or ride it down.
They may take the tough love decision to squeeze us, just to force us
into fiscal responsibility and insure a longer term market for their
goods.

Not true. They're in it for the money. They intend to keep playing. They're
certainly going to squeeze us (continue to actually) to get our house in
order. What's wrong with that? Everyone wins.

Short term money loss is not the only thing some countries think
about, even if that is such a strange concept to us.
China is in better shape to come out of a global depression than we
are and they will own the world when they do.

we're in such a depression now, remember. they aren't dumping
anything. so your experiment doesnt work

Lots of things we are seeing now have never happened before. Why would
you think other things we have not seen before can't happen in the
future? There has never been a time when other countries held this
much of our debt.

There's a difference between the unknown and the unknowable. One works to
explore the unknown. The unknowable is best left to God.

The rich people here will be fine, they already operate quite well in
the global economy. It will be your middle class that becomes serfs in
a neo-colonial America growing food, cutting wood and mining
materials for China.

they already are becoming serfs. they just dont realize it. a recent
study shows that americans have NO idea how skewed income and wealth
are in this country. and the right is certainly helping to keep this a
secret

Yet when I try to point it out you say I am wrong. Again you are
standing to the right of me.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"Secular Humoresque" wrote in message
...
On 10/1/10 1:34 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On Oct 1, 3:59 am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions. Less manufacturing = less unions. Unions priced themselves
out of the market, and people like you killed manufacturing by buying
cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.

Sure.. you're right, except for the root cause of union creation... BAD
MANAGEMENT.




Manufacturers left the USA not because they weren't making profit...they
simply did not think they were making enough profit. Greed took over, big
time.

Prices for most consumer items are far higher than they ever were when
they were made in the USA by unionized workforces and labor charges in the
Pacific Rim are not much better than slave labor rates.

You figure out the rest.


--
Republicans are the Party of No:
No Leaders / No Ideas / No Morals

I guess that would mean it was ~good~ management lol

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:26:27 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:43:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:32:41 -0400, wrote:



Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

john maynard keynes once said, if you owe the bank $1000 you have a
problem. if you owe it $1M, they have a problem

china's not going to dump anything. you think they want to lose money?

what planet you right wingers live on?

That is the same kind of logic that said Japan would never attack
Pearl Harbor.

Actually, there's some dispute about us knowing or not knowing about the
impending attack.

Ah the old "FDR caused the attack to get us in the war" theory.
That usually comes from right wingers. I'm surprised.

Short term money loss is not the only thing some countries think
about, even if that is such a strange concept to us.

We've had a very stable, long-term monetary policy in the US up until
recently... about the time of Reagan. Between the Depression and then, we
had recessions but nothing severe. Then, the regs got removed and/or
gutted.
We see the result. We need to learn from our mistakes and reinstitute the
policies that stabilized our economy.


The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world. These days most of our exports
to China are raw materials. We sell them scrap iron and they sell us
consumer goods. The real profit is in the manufacturing, not
collecting and shipping scrap iron.

China is in better shape to come out of a global depression than we
are and they will own the world when they do.

No they aren't. They're a much more rigid society. Millions would die if
their economy went bust.

They have 1.3 billion, they can afford to lose a few million but it is
unlikely it would be that bad. A global depression and fionancial
collapse could set us back over 100 years. For most of China it would
just set them back a decade or so and they are better equipped to
recover.

The rich people here will be fine, they already operate quite well in
the global economy. It will be your middle class that becomes serfs in
a neo-colonial America growing food, cutting wood and mining
materials for China.
To some extent we already are.

The rich people are usually fine. So what. The middle class would be hurt
but would recover.

Recover doing what? This isn't 1929. Our problem is not excess
capacity with no place to sell it. We don't have the ability to
produce much. We sold our factories to Mexico and China.
In the 90s.we thought we would dominate the world in the internet
business but we found out there is really not much employment there.
One guy sitting at a PC arranging drop shipments from Asia is not as
much of an employer as a whole brick and mortar store chain, then they
figured out the guy on the PC could be overseas too. (Clinton's
recession)
In the 2000s we filled that gap building houses, until the market was
so flooded that we may not work through the inventory for years to
come. (the current recession)
Now we are just staring into the hole that used to be American
industry and wondering what is next?

This is yet again a case of Chicken Little (no offense intended).

OK everything is fine, thanks, now I know my kids will be OK.


Another case of a well presented, logical argument being shrugged off with
a
liberal cliche because depoop couldn't think of a counter.

Nice job. Wasted though.
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

Wow... you sure contributed NOTHING to this thread! Keep up the great work
representing your viewpoint!



Wow! Small tits, big mouth, no brains. This newsgroup is about boats. Please take a moment to think about why you are disliked and suffer ridicule from those of us that would like to read about boating.

--
Harry
"The 'C' students run the world."

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"Secular Humoresque" wrote in message
...
On 10/1/10 1:34 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On Oct 1, 3:59 am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions. Less manufacturing = less unions. Unions priced themselves
out of the market, and people like you killed manufacturing by buying
cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.

Sure.. you're right, except for the root cause of union creation... BAD
MANAGEMENT.




Manufacturers left the USA not because they weren't making profit...they
simply did not think they were making enough profit. Greed took over, big
time.

Prices for most consumer items are far higher than they ever were when
they were made in the USA by unionized workforces and labor charges in the
Pacific Rim are not much better than slave labor rates.

You figure out the rest.


Yup.. it's the importers... buying cheap & selling high.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

In article ,
says...

"Secular Humoresque" wrote in message
...
On 10/1/10 1:34 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

"Jack" wrote in message
...
On Oct 1, 3:59 am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions. Less manufacturing = less unions. Unions priced themselves
out of the market, and people like you killed manufacturing by buying
cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.

Sure.. you're right, except for the root cause of union creation... BAD
MANAGEMENT.




Manufacturers left the USA not because they weren't making profit...they
simply did not think they were making enough profit. Greed took over, big
time.

Prices for most consumer items are far higher than they ever were when
they were made in the USA by unionized workforces and labor charges in the
Pacific Rim are not much better than slave labor rates.

You figure out the rest.


Yup.. it's the importers... buying cheap & selling high.

Yeah, who do those assholes think they are, actually wanting to make a
PROFIT?

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"Jack" wrote in message ...
On Oct 1, 3:59 am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions. Less manufacturing = less unions. Unions priced themselves
out of the market, and people like you killed manufacturing by buying
cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.


One way or another unions had to go. They became too powerful and greedy to allow on shore manufacturing to compete in the world market.

--
Harry
"The 'C' students run the world."

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 11:02:17 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 03:59:32 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:



The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

The unions caused it to some degree by making our workers too
expensive to compete in a world market

wrong. provably wrong. right now, the countries with the strongest
unions have the best manufacturing bases.

you are simply WRONG

and not being willing to budge.
The only states that are growing in manufacturing capacity are the
non-union states.

also wrong.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 09:22:48 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

On Oct 1, 3:59*am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions.

nope. not if you can intimidate workers. and america has given carte
blanche to companies to do exactly this. there is no penalty for
harassment, intimidation, or even firing union organizers

Less manufacturing = less unions. Unions priced themselves
out of the market,

wrong. germany, sweden and france all have good manufacturing bases
and have strong unions

right wingers WANT people to think unions are bad, but the EVIDENCE
shows othewise

and people like you killed manufacturing by buying
cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.

nope. you killed them when you allowed the right to pass legislation
destroying unions

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:59:42 -0400, wrote:

nt


They are already braced to take that loss.

actually so are we. they only hold 10% of US public debt.


China is smart enough to
see our current system is unsustainable.

and where they gonna put the money? oh. nowhere.


they already are becoming serfs. they just dont realize it. a recent
study shows that americans have NO idea how skewed income and wealth
are in this country. and the right is certainly helping to keep this a
secret

Yet when I try to point it out you say I am wrong. Again you are
standing to the right of me.

we are becoming serfs because people like you want companies to have
MORE power, not LESS

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Oct 1, 2:11*pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 09:22:48 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

On Oct 1, 3:59*am, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 02:02:40 -0400, wrote:

The issue is not monetary policy, it is a decline in our capacity to
produce things we can sell the world.

and one of the biggest factors in this was the destruction of unions.
a recent series of articles in 'slate' showed that countries with
strong unions also have strong manufacturing bases. the right
destroyed the unions in this country and, bye bye manufacturing

You're using backward logic. *Actually, more manufacturing brings more
unions.

nope. not if you can intimidate workers. and america has given carte
blanche to companies to do exactly this. there is no penalty for
harassment, intimidation, or even firing union organizers

* Less manufacturing = less unions. *Unions priced themselves

out of the market,

wrong. germany, sweden and france all have good manufacturing bases
and have strong unions

right wingers WANT people to think unions are bad, but the EVIDENCE
shows othewise

and people like you killed manufacturing by buying

cheap chinese-made battery chargers at walmart. *You killed the unions
with your purchasing decisions.

nope. you killed them when you allowed the right to pass legislation
destroying unions

Obviously you have never really worked in a blue collar union
operation. But it's ok for you to believe what you read at the Kos,
it's your right....

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:00:57 -0400, wrote:


The question is what caused them to decline. You can blame it on
management but managers answer to stock holders, not unions.
In the late 80s and beyond we rated the economy based on how the stock
market was doing, not how the workers were doing. We still rate the
economy on how the major stock indexes are doing.
Bob dances around it but that was particularly true during the Clinton
administration. The decline of his middle class went into high gear
during that time.

wrong. the decline of the middle class has been happening for decades.
the 'great divergence' of middle class/wealthy salaries has been going
on for quite some time

That was when major corporations started shedding
their senior employees in massive downsizing actions, just to pump up
stock prices. That was where his "prosperity" came from.

and they started paying their CEO's astronomical salaries...one of the
major factors in the wage split

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:20:14 -0700 (PDT), "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!"
wrote:


Obviously you have never really worked in a blue collar union
operation. But it's ok for you to believe what you read at the Kos,
it's your right....


why not look up ATT and Greene Tweed. see if they are/were union
shops, OK?

another opnion pulled out courtesy of charmin

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On 9/30/2010 3:25 PM, A.Boater wrote:
No. Now, calm down and take your meds.

You mean take the profits?

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On 10/1/2010 8:28 AM, Harry® wrote:
wrote in message ...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:55:44 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating
money
until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/

Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they want
the
Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

Nuckles, nuckles... the Fed can't go bankrupt. Learn to use google. Google
is your friend.


Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

As I said, it can't go bankrupt.

It would certainly hurt them bad but it would kill us. The Chinese
expect tanks in the street to kick them back into the fold but we
would not survive as a country if it happens here.

No, actually, the reverse is true. It would hurt us and wipe them out.



What logic supports your theory?


nom=de=plume has logic? Hahaha... she-it doesn't have the money to
invest and knows nothing.


--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

On 10/1/10 3:35 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 10/1/2010 8:28 AM, Harry® wrote:
wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:55:44 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating
money
until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/


Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they
want
the
Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

Nuckles, nuckles... the Fed can't go bankrupt. Learn to use google.
Google
is your friend.


Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

As I said, it can't go bankrupt.

It would certainly hurt them bad but it would kill us. The Chinese
expect tanks in the street to kick them back into the fold but we
would not survive as a country if it happens here.

No, actually, the reverse is true. It would hurt us and wipe them out.



What logic supports your theory?


nom=de=plume has logic? Hahaha... she-it doesn't have the money to
invest and knows nothing.



There's plenty of evidence you don't know **** from shoe polish. You
provide more of it with almost every post.

--
Republicans are the Party of No:
No Leaders / No Ideas / No Morals

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"Secular Humoresque" wrote in message m...
On 10/1/10 3:35 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 10/1/2010 8:28 AM, Harry® wrote:
wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:55:44 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

So is the US The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?

Perhaps. They are issuing lots of new fiat money to the US and other
governments as no one is lending them money any more. Keep crating
money
until it breaks and then declare bankruptcy on a world wide scale.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time....dump-u-s-debt/


Which is the real reason behind government rant on currency, they
want
the
Chinese to eat the depreciation of US debt.

Suckers play by democrat debtors in denial.

Boats are only going to get cheaper.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

Nuckles, nuckles... the Fed can't go bankrupt. Learn to use google.
Google
is your friend.


Certainly it can. All it would take is for China to stop buying our
debt and dump their dollars on the world money markets.

As I said, it can't go bankrupt.

It would certainly hurt them bad but it would kill us. The Chinese
expect tanks in the street to kick them back into the fold but we
would not survive as a country if it happens here.

No, actually, the reverse is true. It would hurt us and wipe them out.



What logic supports your theory?


nom=de=plume has logic? Hahaha... she-it doesn't have the money to
invest and knows nothing.



There's plenty of evidence you don't know **** from shoe polish. You
provide more of it with almost every post.

--
Republicans are the Party of No:
No Leaders / No Ideas / No Morals


I'm always happy to weigh evidence but you don't have any. You talk through your ass and it stinks.

--
Harry
"The 'C' students run the world."

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:38:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

They are already braced to take that loss. China is smart enough to
see our current system is unsustainable. The only question is whether
they want to get out while the dollar is still strong or ride it down.
They may take the tough love decision to squeeze us, just to force us
into fiscal responsibility and insure a longer term market for their
goods.

Not true. They're in it for the money. They intend to keep playing.
They're
certainly going to squeeze us (continue to actually) to get our house in
order. What's wrong with that? Everyone wins.

We are not going to be any happier about it than the Greeks were when
the Germans told them they had to cut their entitlements.
The question is how that manifests itself. We have a horrible history
of electing politicians who will not admit we are in trouble and
promise to kick the can down the road.

The Chinese can bankrupt us yet not take a Trillion buck loss. The value of
the their debt holdings are decreasing with any inflation we get. And they
may get 50% of the debt and win a war against evil America and not even have
to shoot off a missile. We've spent a Trillion in the middle east on the
longest war in US history and still no way to win. They spend $500 Billion
and win. The ability to print money does not guarantee we can not go BK.
If overspending by government made us richer, the USSR would still be the
USSR and be the richest entity of all the nation states.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
On 9/30/2010 3:25 PM, A.Boater wrote:
No. Now, calm down and take your meds.

You mean take the profits?

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

Something you're incapable of accomplishing we're sure.

The Federal Reserve Bank bankrupt?
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:32:48 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Go to any store, pick up just about anything and see where it came
from.

So, you want us to compete to make plastic toys? Well, actually, what gets
produced here doesn't usually have a lead problem.

Have you looked at anything other than plastic toys?
Look at things like tools, electronics or clothes. How many are US
made?
We send them scrap iron, they send us socket wrenches.

And, I pointed out that we also export lots of stuff. Your point? We used to
be afraid of Japan. Now, we're "afraid" of China. I prefer not to be
"afraid."