wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:19:30 -0500, Jim wrote:

According to the site they sell for Florida homes too.

http://solarroofs.com/index.html#customers
Browse at your leisure.

I browsed and I see the "certifications"

I still do not see a NRTL listed and there are a lot of building
departments that will not issue you a permit without one.

This is what the Florida IAEI (electrical inspectors) has to say about
it.
the consensus is "It needs to be certified by a NRTL."

http://www.iaeifl.org/forums/ubbthre....html#Post7273


You have to read the whole thing. The inspector from Cape Coral said
he'd pass an FSEC approved system.
FSEC has tested and approved the Skyline systems.
The pool system they were arguing about had components with no ratings
at all, and the system wasn't FSEC approved.
Looks like those inspectors don't have their act together.
They should straighten themselves out, get with the new technology, and
get the definitive answer about what FSEC system approval means.

If you are climbing around on your roof with these collectors and
don't have a permit, you are just trusting none of your neighbors are
mad at you about anything or just condo commander types who want to do
the right thing
Building departments are really looking for work these days. Some are
just driving around looking for violations, simply to keep their job.

If there's a chance of getting caught, get the permit. Simple as that.
And if you do that, you talk to the inspector about the system first so
you're in sync and there's no surprises.

Jim - Solar water heating looks too expensive now anyway. Wait 6 more
months. Maybe 8.

YukonBound wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

"Charles C." wrote in message
...
While watching Keith Olberman's "Countdown" show last evening in
which he featured a segment on a couple who had lost their jobs, I
had a thought on how the unemployment insurance programs might be
modified.

The husband had worked in the auto parts industry all his adult life
but his job was eliminated. Despite efforts to find a new, similar
job he, like many, had found that his job was gone, not to return.

He acknowledged finding a new job, requiring him to start over in a
new career and at a low starting wage. He freely admitted that it
did not make sense for him to take the new job because he was better
off financially collecting unemployment benefits. He wants to work,
but has to do the best thing money-wise to keep his house, etc.

Many are in the same boat.

Since many jobs are gone for good and people are going to have to
start new careers with lower pay due to little or no experience, my
thought was this:

Rather than continue to extend full unemployment benefits during
this critical economy, structure the unemployment funding as a
subsidy to the new, lower pay scale common to a new job in which one
has no experience. Benefits would be tied to the last year's
earnings before being layed off. The combined new job pay and the
subsidized income from the unemployment fund would equal some
percentage (say 75-90 percent) of the previous income. This benefit
would last for a period of 2 years ... sufficient time to become
trained and knowledgeable in the new job.

This would cut the amount of money currently being paid out in
unemployment benefits, provide an incentive for new jobs resulting
in lower unemployment.

Note: This is a totally non-partisan idea. No blame cast on the
left or right.

This basic concept has been talked about for a long time. I find it
truly loony that if you say you're in school, e.g., training for a
new career, you're unemployment benefits suffer. Of course, this
would be unpopular, mainly because it's a complicated explanation...
not that it doesn't make some sense.


Welcome back Ms Plume.
Your legion of admirers sure did miss you..................... you are
all they could talk about.
Did you buy a boat?
I probably won't see your reply until late Monday. We're taking mom
and my oldest sister to beautiful Cape Breton.
My youngest sister and her husband will meet us there as we visit my
#3 sister.
Gag

wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:29:20 -0500, Jim wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:19:30 -0500, Jim wrote:

According to the site they sell for Florida homes too.

http://solarroofs.com/index.html#customers
Browse at your leisure.
I browsed and I see the "certifications"

I still do not see a NRTL listed and there are a lot of building
departments that will not issue you a permit without one.

This is what the Florida IAEI (electrical inspectors) has to say about
it.
the consensus is "It needs to be certified by a NRTL."

http://www.iaeifl.org/forums/ubbthre....html#Post7273

You have to read the whole thing. The inspector from Cape Coral said
he'd pass an FSEC approved system.
FSEC has tested and approved the Skyline systems.
The pool system they were arguing about had components with no ratings
at all, and the system wasn't FSEC approved.
Looks like those inspectors don't have their act together.
They should straighten themselves out, get with the new technology, and
get the definitive answer about what FSEC system approval means.


Yet the city of Northport says no (Bryan Holland)


No, he was talking about a non-FSEC approved pool system.
It had components with no certs, and wasn't an FSEC approved system.
The Cape Coral inspector butted in with FSEC approved systems.
Which he said he passes, and he laid out the rules.
Seemed clear to me if FSEC approves a system the inspectors should have
no problem with it.
But except for the Cape Coral guy, nobody was talking about an FSEC
approved system.
Florida is spending a lot of money for FSEC testing and certification of
these solar systems.
And they are being installed throughout the state.
I highly doubt an inspector would buck FSEC certification.
Wouldn't add to his job security.


If you are climbing around on your roof with these collectors and
don't have a permit, you are just trusting none of your neighbors are
mad at you about anything or just condo commander types who want to do
the right thing
Building departments are really looking for work these days. Some are
just driving around looking for violations, simply to keep their job.
If there's a chance of getting caught, get the permit. Simple as that.
And if you do that, you talk to the inspector about the system first so
you're in sync and there's no surprises.


The problem is if your BO is a guy who thinks you need NRTL listing
and that is more common than not.

If an inspector doesn't know about FSEC certification he should be
fired. And jailed.

You also notice it is only the collector that is certified, not the
controller or the pump.

No, looks to me that all collectors have SRCC certs. FSEC probably
requires that before they'll test for their system cert.
That's a guess.
The Skyline system came to FSEC with a SRCC collector cert, then FSEC
issued its cert after system testing.
I saw somewhere FSEC also tests the PV's during their system test.
For the Skyline the PV runs a 12v pump.
You can see the extent of the FSEC program and testing regime by
googling for it.
Here
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/certifica...ards/index.htm
You can also find the FSEC system certs for the Skyline systems.
ACR International.




That is why I say they really need a federal program, endorsed by OSHA
(the people who certify a NRTL) to get system certifications without
kicking that $100,000 U/L tar baby.


Why complicate things? You remind me of a worry wart.
Sounds like you just want to make trouble.
Act like a damn Floridian. We don't need fed interference for solar hot
water heater certification.
In fact, FSEC is the most important solar hot water cert nationwide.
You should be proud. I am.
And tell your inspector compadres to listen up. FSEC is the new sheriff
in town.

Jim - Damn, I wish I had an FSEC badge and a gun. And a hat.
I'd show them inspectors a thing or two. Especially the ones hanging
around in that biker bar in Bartow. And gfretwell too if he's in there.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
YukonBound wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

"Charles C." wrote in message
...
While watching Keith Olberman's "Countdown" show last evening in which
he featured a segment on a couple who had lost their jobs, I had a
thought on how the unemployment insurance programs might be modified.

The husband had worked in the auto parts industry all his adult life
but his job was eliminated. Despite efforts to find a new, similar job
he, like many, had found that his job was gone, not to return.

He acknowledged finding a new job, requiring him to start over in a new
career and at a low starting wage. He freely admitted that it did not
make sense for him to take the new job because he was better off
financially collecting unemployment benefits. He wants to work, but
has to do the best thing money-wise to keep his house, etc.

Many are in the same boat.

Since many jobs are gone for good and people are going to have to start
new careers with lower pay due to little or no experience, my thought
was this:

Rather than continue to extend full unemployment benefits during this
critical economy, structure the unemployment funding as a subsidy to
the new, lower pay scale common to a new job in which one has no
experience. Benefits would be tied to the last year's earnings before
being layed off. The combined new job pay and the subsidized income
from the unemployment fund would equal some percentage (say 75-90
percent) of the previous income. This benefit would last for a period
of 2 years ... sufficient time to become trained and knowledgeable in
the new job.

This would cut the amount of money currently being paid out in
unemployment benefits, provide an incentive for new jobs resulting in
lower unemployment.

Note: This is a totally non-partisan idea. No blame cast on the left
or right.

This basic concept has been talked about for a long time. I find it
truly loony that if you say you're in school, e.g., training for a new
career, you're unemployment benefits suffer. Of course, this would be
unpopular, mainly because it's a complicated explanation... not that it
doesn't make some sense.


Welcome back Ms Plume.
Your legion of admirers sure did miss you..................... you are
all they could talk about.
Did you buy a boat?
I probably won't see your reply until late Monday. We're taking mom and
my oldest sister to beautiful Cape Breton.
My youngest sister and her husband will meet us there as we visit my #3
sister.
Gag


Really.

--
I'm the real Harry, and I post from a Mac, as virtually everyone knows.
If a post is attributed to me, and it isn't from a Mac, it's from an ID
spoofer who hasn't the balls to post with his own ID.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
YukonBound wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

"Charles C." wrote in message
...
While watching Keith Olberman's "Countdown" show last evening in which
he featured a segment on a couple who had lost their jobs, I had a
thought on how the unemployment insurance programs might be modified.

The husband had worked in the auto parts industry all his adult life
but his job was eliminated. Despite efforts to find a new, similar job
he, like many, had found that his job was gone, not to return.

He acknowledged finding a new job, requiring him to start over in a new
career and at a low starting wage. He freely admitted that it did not
make sense for him to take the new job because he was better off
financially collecting unemployment benefits. He wants to work, but
has to do the best thing money-wise to keep his house, etc.

Many are in the same boat.

Since many jobs are gone for good and people are going to have to start
new careers with lower pay due to little or no experience, my thought
was this:

Rather than continue to extend full unemployment benefits during this
critical economy, structure the unemployment funding as a subsidy to
the new, lower pay scale common to a new job in which one has no
experience. Benefits would be tied to the last year's earnings before
being layed off. The combined new job pay and the subsidized income
from the unemployment fund would equal some percentage (say 75-90
percent) of the previous income. This benefit would last for a period
of 2 years ... sufficient time to become trained and knowledgeable in
the new job.

This would cut the amount of money currently being paid out in
unemployment benefits, provide an incentive for new jobs resulting in
lower unemployment.

Note: This is a totally non-partisan idea. No blame cast on the left
or right.

This basic concept has been talked about for a long time. I find it
truly loony that if you say you're in school, e.g., training for a new
career, you're unemployment benefits suffer. Of course, this would be
unpopular, mainly because it's a complicated explanation... not that it
doesn't make some sense.


Welcome back Ms Plume.
Your legion of admirers sure did miss you..................... you are
all they could talk about.
Did you buy a boat?
I probably won't see your reply until late Monday. We're taking mom and
my oldest sister to beautiful Cape Breton.
My youngest sister and her husband will meet us there as we visit my #3
sister.
Gag

We don't want to know what you're gagging on... really!

On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 12:13:42 -0500, Jim wrote:

My wife just got cold called to go sell road signs for $70,000 a year
plus expenses and benefits so some people can still find work.

Sure she did. And I just got a cold call offering me a great
opportunity to sell phone booth services to local merchants.

There are definitely jobs out there for people with the right skils
and are willing to work. I was talking on the phone today with a
Marine Refrigeration and Air Conditioning company in Naples, FL about
a repair and parts issue with our trawler. Apparently they thought I
knew what I was talking about since they offered me a job sight
unseen. I politely declined and money was never discussed. Around
here A/C and refrigeration guys charge about $85/hour, same as diesel
mechanics which are also in short supply.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:53:32 -0400, wrote:

I have people trying to get me back into the computer business from
time to time but I would rather do just about anything else.
There is certainly a lot of opportunity but it is not hardware, it is
just integrating PC software. Plenty of windshield and telephone time,
frustrating support structures and buggy applications. I would rather
work on a shrimp boat. ;-)

Maybe. :-)

My diesel mechanic used to own a small fleet of shrimp boats at FMB
but gave it up mostly as a result of low priced imported shrimp taking
the profit out of it.

I think the best computer opportunities are with networking and
security but I'm kind of enjoying retirement.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:30:21 -0400, wrote:

I think the best computer opportunities are with networking and
security but I'm kind of enjoying retirement.

Here in SW Florida there is a crying need for small system
integrators. Small businesses have a kludge of PCs running systems
that do not talk to each other. If you could assemble a suite of small
business software that also included POS, security, inventory, payroll
maintenance logs and scheduling, there are about 200 gated communities
who would beat a path to your door.

I spent an entire adult career dealing with big business systems that
didn't talk with each other. Technology has gotten a lot better but
it's still a lot of work/resources to get everything so it
inter-operates reliably.

Why do gated communities need all of those capabilites?

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:53:32 -0400, wrote:

I have people trying to get me back into the computer business from
time to time but I would rather do just about anything else.
There is certainly a lot of opportunity but it is not hardware, it is
just integrating PC software. Plenty of windshield and telephone time,
frustrating support structures and buggy applications. I would rather
work on a shrimp boat. ;-)

Maybe. :-)

My diesel mechanic used to own a small fleet of shrimp boats at FMB
but gave it up mostly as a result of low priced imported shrimp taking
the profit out of it.

I think the best computer opportunities are with networking and
security but I'm kind of enjoying retirement.


My loving 48 year old bride won't let me retire until she does, dammit.

--
I'm the real Harry, and I post from a Mac, as virtually everyone knows.
If a post is attributed to me, and it isn't from a Mac, it's from an ID
spoofer who hasn't the balls to post with his own ID.

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:32:21 -0400, wrote:

Why do gated communities need all of those capabilites?


I am talking about golf/country club communities
They typically have a 4-6 person business office, 40-100 employees
(seasonal), a significant inventory of equipment, gates with bar code
readers and key pads, security cameras/DVR (PC based), scheduling
systems for the tee times, activity room reservations, a cable TV
channel (PC based) and point of sale equipment in the club house and
pro shop. My wife has 5 different systems running plus the normal MS
office suite. None of them can share data or talk to each other and
there are 3 different software vendors.
This is bigger than a lot of communities but far from the largest.
Like anything with the word "Pelican" in it ;-)

Interesting. One thing you don't want or need in an operation like
that is payroll processing - too many security/privacy/regulatory
issues, and ADP/Paychex do a good job at a reasonable price. They can
also do the HR processing and time keeping via internet based access.
Interoperability, as needed, can be written into the contract.

Equipment inventory/asset management can be done via shared files on a
LAN, same with tee time and room scheduling - could be something as
simple as shared Excel spreadsheets with some security and an audit
trail wrapped around it. Excel can hand off data in many different
formats.

Point-of-sale will require the co-operation of the software vendor to
develop data handoffs and reporting in some mutually agreeable format.