On 01/08/2010 8:08 AM, Harry  wrote:
On 8/1/10 10:03 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 8/1/10 8:35 AM, YukonBound wrote:


"Harry wrote in message
...

We know U.S. corporations have no compunction about firing workers in
order to further enrich their execs, and apparently they are the same
way about their products, too.

One of my computer printers is dying. A competent repair shop
diagnosed it and informed me a certain part needed replacing. The
printer is a couple of years old and parts are available, but the
manufacturer will not sell the part in question, even to its
authorized service depots.

So I called the printer company Friday, and, after brushing off its
first line of defense, a barely English-speaking clown in India (I
asked, he told me where he was*), I got connected to a series of
U.S.-based service/technical folks.

At the end, the best deal I was offered was to buy a new printer from
the company at a "special price," which was *only* $50 more than
anyone could buy it for from any of at least 100 retailers.

The company I was dealing with used to have a stellar reputation. No
more.

Anyway, this leads me to wonder if anyone is maintaining a list of
those U.S. companies that still provide good products and good
service.




* I have nothing against India or people from that area, but when
these people are hired as the first line of service for U.S.
corporations to deal with U.S. customers, they ought to have decent
facility with...English.


We were watching Michael Moore's 'Capitalism: A Love Story' last night.
Unbelievable what American leaders and CEOs did to the middle class...
especially during Ronnie's years.
Anyone still around should be tried for treason and shot.


We need an emergency and temporary change in the tax laws that says that
if your corporation is making a substantial profit now, and you aren't
hiring Americans, your tax breaks...all of them...disappear.

Does that mean that corporations that buy fine German screwdrivers
should be taxed out of existence too?




German-made tools are fine with me *if* they are made by German workers
who are members of a trade union. I'd surely buy a set before I bought
any products or services that an un-edu-ma-cated moron like you had a
hand in producing.

I get a kick out of this, as so much fraud goes on.

The reality is if you buy a set of tools from say Snap-on, 1/2 or more
come from Asia/China and the case says "Made in America". Ditto places
like Harley Davidson... die cast in China, assembed in the USA.

Toyota - GM, another great example. Toyota has more Amercian content
than say a GM Aveo. Engines often made elsewhere...

But as a consumer, all I care about is TCO and will it do what I want it
to. Make a better, faster, cheaper, widget, I will buy it. Load it up
with union rank, government socialism, protectionism I will either cease
or certianly buy less of it.
--
We are all self-made, but only the rich will admit it.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 08:20:41 -0400, Harry ?
wrote:

One of my computer printers is dying. A competent repair shop diagnosed
it and informed me a certain part needed replacing. The printer is a
couple of years old and parts are available, but the manufacturer will
not sell the part in question, even to its authorized service depots.

There basically is no such thing as repairing computers. You throw
them away and buy a new one. It is cheaper to have an Asian make a new
one than it is to maintain parts logistic support and training service
people. The writing was actually on the wall in the early 80s in the
enterprise business when IBM shifted from "parts" to "FRUs" (Field
Replaceable Units, the smallest assembly you could order). In many
cases, that was the whole machine. They used the above mentioned
logic. We were buying computer monitors from Korea for $39. Why would
you ever open one up?
"Parts" was IBM's second highest expense, behind salary. By
eliminating the whole repair business, they virtually eliminated one
expense and cut the other one to the bone.

With mass market products, the "lowest cost vendor" model makes parts
logistics a nightmare anyway. The same make and model machine may
actually be made by several different vendors over it's life span and
the parts may not be interchangeable. Even within a single vendor, you
have production changes that affect the parts. Add to that the massive
number of different models of machines that they sell and you can see
why nobody wants to stock parts.

Personally I think this is an area where we could bring jobs back to
this country. The consumer has to demand that the products they buy
are repairable but that would make them more expensive and that seems
to be against the way we think. We are a "buy it, use it up and throw
it away" society.
It sounds like your printer is "used up" and now has become hazardous
waste.

Modern computers (e.g., desktop/workstation systems) are so small that
"repairing" them seems impractical most of the time. If a circuit goes,
there is no reasonable repair possible. I've had laptop screens replaced,
but beyond that and drives, it seems like a waste of time. The newest
systems are usually pretty inexpensive and faster/better (notable exception
Vista-based).

On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 10:41:50 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 08:20:41 -0400, Harry ?
wrote:

One of my computer printers is dying. A competent repair shop diagnosed
it and informed me a certain part needed replacing. The printer is a
couple of years old and parts are available, but the manufacturer will
not sell the part in question, even to its authorized service depots.

There basically is no such thing as repairing computers. You throw
them away and buy a new one. It is cheaper to have an Asian make a new
one than it is to maintain parts logistic support and training service
people. The writing was actually on the wall in the early 80s in the
enterprise business when IBM shifted from "parts" to "FRUs" (Field
Replaceable Units, the smallest assembly you could order). In many
cases, that was the whole machine. They used the above mentioned
logic. We were buying computer monitors from Korea for $39. Why would
you ever open one up?
"Parts" was IBM's second highest expense, behind salary. By
eliminating the whole repair business, they virtually eliminated one
expense and cut the other one to the bone.

With mass market products, the "lowest cost vendor" model makes parts
logistics a nightmare anyway. The same make and model machine may
actually be made by several different vendors over it's life span and
the parts may not be interchangeable. Even within a single vendor, you
have production changes that affect the parts. Add to that the massive
number of different models of machines that they sell and you can see
why nobody wants to stock parts.

Personally I think this is an area where we could bring jobs back to
this country. The consumer has to demand that the products they buy
are repairable but that would make them more expensive and that seems
to be against the way we think. We are a "buy it, use it up and throw
it away" society.
It sounds like your printer is "used up" and now has become hazardous
waste.

Modern computers (e.g., desktop/workstation systems) are so small that
"repairing" them seems impractical most of the time. If a circuit goes,
there is no reasonable repair possible. I've had laptop screens replaced,
but beyond that and drives, it seems like a waste of time. The newest
systems are usually pretty inexpensive and faster/better (notable exception
Vista-based).

I've been using Dell for the past 15 years. Not unusual for a laptop
to have the MB replaced and certainly video cards (if add-on) can go
bad and be replaced. Most failures have to do with the charging
circuit and physical stress on the MB.

Laptop keyboards fail and Dell will just send a replacement for the
owner to replace. Simple operation.

nom=de=plume wrote:



Modern computers (e.g., desktop/workstation systems) are so small that
"repairing" them seems impractical most of the time. If a circuit goes,
there is no reasonable repair possible. I've had laptop screens
replaced, but beyond that and drives, it seems like a waste of time. The
newest systems are usually pretty inexpensive and faster/better (notable
exception Vista-based).

Maybe true for you, but most home systems are easily repaired by a
12-year-old at a tiny fraction of the cost of a new system.
Only reason to get a new system is the old is obsolete for your needs.
Or to brag "I've got the latest."

Jim - Okay. Time to call Jim a moron and a liar.

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 12:08:19 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 08:20:41 -0400, Harry ?
wrote:

One of my computer printers is dying. A competent repair shop diagnosed
it and informed me a certain part needed replacing. The printer is a
couple of years old and parts are available, but the manufacturer will
not sell the part in question, even to its authorized service depots.

There basically is no such thing as repairing computers. You throw
them away and buy a new one. It is cheaper to have an Asian make a new
one than it is to maintain parts logistic support and training service
people. The writing was actually on the wall in the early 80s in the
enterprise business when IBM shifted from "parts" to "FRUs" (Field
Replaceable Units, the smallest assembly you could order). In many
cases, that was the whole machine. They used the above mentioned
logic. We were buying computer monitors from Korea for $39. Why would
you ever open one up?
"Parts" was IBM's second highest expense, behind salary. By
eliminating the whole repair business, they virtually eliminated one
expense and cut the other one to the bone.

With mass market products, the "lowest cost vendor" model makes parts
logistics a nightmare anyway. The same make and model machine may
actually be made by several different vendors over it's life span and
the parts may not be interchangeable. Even within a single vendor, you
have production changes that affect the parts. Add to that the massive
number of different models of machines that they sell and you can see
why nobody wants to stock parts.

Personally I think this is an area where we could bring jobs back to
this country. The consumer has to demand that the products they buy
are repairable but that would make them more expensive and that seems
to be against the way we think. We are a "buy it, use it up and throw
it away" society.
It sounds like your printer is "used up" and now has become hazardous
waste.

Makes me sick. Landfills full of Walmart crap that lasts 1/10th the
time that a well-made product lasts at 1/3 the price.

Most American consumers don't give a ****.

Most Americans do give a **** and that's why they refuse to purchase
products that are high dollar and don't last as long as the low dollar
products.

On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 15:19:03 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 12:08:19 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 08:20:41 -0400, Harry ?
wrote:

One of my computer printers is dying. A competent repair shop diagnosed
it and informed me a certain part needed replacing. The printer is a
couple of years old and parts are available, but the manufacturer will
not sell the part in question, even to its authorized service depots.

There basically is no such thing as repairing computers. You throw
them away and buy a new one. It is cheaper to have an Asian make a new
one than it is to maintain parts logistic support and training service
people. The writing was actually on the wall in the early 80s in the
enterprise business when IBM shifted from "parts" to "FRUs" (Field
Replaceable Units, the smallest assembly you could order). In many
cases, that was the whole machine. They used the above mentioned
logic. We were buying computer monitors from Korea for $39. Why would
you ever open one up?
"Parts" was IBM's second highest expense, behind salary. By
eliminating the whole repair business, they virtually eliminated one
expense and cut the other one to the bone.

With mass market products, the "lowest cost vendor" model makes parts
logistics a nightmare anyway. The same make and model machine may
actually be made by several different vendors over it's life span and
the parts may not be interchangeable. Even within a single vendor, you
have production changes that affect the parts. Add to that the massive
number of different models of machines that they sell and you can see
why nobody wants to stock parts.

Personally I think this is an area where we could bring jobs back to
this country. The consumer has to demand that the products they buy
are repairable but that would make them more expensive and that seems
to be against the way we think. We are a "buy it, use it up and throw
it away" society.
It sounds like your printer is "used up" and now has become hazardous
waste.

Makes me sick. Landfills full of Walmart crap that lasts 1/10th the
time that a well-made product lasts at 1/3 the price.

Most American consumers don't give a ****.

Most Americans do give a **** and that's why they refuse to purchase
products that are high dollar and don't last as long as the low dollar
products.

Yeah, that's why they're purchasing Communist Chinese goods at a
record pace at Walmart.

I have a toaster that was built in the 40's and it works great. Have
you seen what they sell nowadays?

Most Americans don't give a ****, they just want it to be cheap. When
it breaks, they throw it in the trash and buy another.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:



Modern computers (e.g., desktop/workstation systems) are so small that
"repairing" them seems impractical most of the time. If a circuit goes,
there is no reasonable repair possible. I've had laptop screens replaced,
but beyond that and drives, it seems like a waste of time. The newest
systems are usually pretty inexpensive and faster/better (notable
exception Vista-based).

Maybe true for you, but most home systems are easily repaired by a
12-year-old at a tiny fraction of the cost of a new system.
Only reason to get a new system is the old is obsolete for your needs.
Or to brag "I've got the latest."

Jim - Okay. Time to call Jim a moron and a liar.



I guess. I tend to use a computer until it so obsolete that it's not worth
fixing. Just updated everything.. laptop/home system/iPhone, so I should be
good to go for a few months.

In article ,
says...

Most Americans do give a **** and that's why they refuse to purchase
products that are high dollar and don't last as long as the low dollar
products.

Yeah, that's why they're purchasing Communist Chinese goods at a
record pace at Walmart.

I have a toaster that was built in the 40's and it works great. Have
you seen what they sell nowadays?

You need to think before you type.

How many toasters were made in the USA in the 1940's? Certainly not
enough for each current household in the USA to own one.

Most Americans don't give a ****, they just want it to be cheap. When
it breaks, they throw it in the trash and buy another.

When I can go and buy a toaster for $14.99
(http://www.amazon.com/Proctor-2-2dSl...ck-2f-2822608-
29/dp/B000R4HHGO/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=kitchen&qid=1280700140&sr=1-12)
why would I want to buy one for twice or three times the cost. Is it
going to toast the bread any better? No. Is it cosast effective to get a
$14.99 toaster fixed? No.

And, I seriously doubt that I could have bought a $14.99 type toaster in
1948 for the $1.56 that it convernts to.

"Harry " wrote in message
...
Most American consumers no longer know the difference. Remember, this is a
country where a significant percentage of the population believes Sarah
Palin is qualified intellectually to hold high political office.


Lord help us all. The 'End Times' prophesy must be coming true!

On 8/1/10 6:49 PM, YukonBound wrote:


"Harry " wrote in message
...
Most American consumers no longer know the difference. Remember, this
is a country where a significant percentage of the population believes
Sarah Palin is qualified intellectually to hold high political office.


Lord help us all. The 'End Times' prophesy must be coming true!


A clear indicator!