OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

....talks about the International Monetary Fund's assessment and how Europe
presents the greatest threat to global economic recovery. I see little
difference in how Europe got to where it is and where Obama is leading this
country. Maybe I'm just myopic.

http://tinyurl.com/2v54xku

The most strange part of the Post article is what is omitted.

"WASHINGTON — The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

Further, "It noted that because of the recession and the government's spending
to battle the downturn, the amount of U.S. government debt held by the public
has almost doubled since 2007 and now stands at 64 percent of the economy as
measured by the gross domestic product, the highest level since 1950.

The IMF said it projected that under current government policies, that debt
burden would grow to 95 percent of GDP by 2020 and climb to 135 percent of GDP
by 2030."
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
...talks about the International Monetary Fund's assessment and how Europe
presents the greatest threat to global economic recovery. I see little
difference in how Europe got to where it is and where Obama is leading
this
country. Maybe I'm just myopic.

No you're not just myopic. You're a freakin idiot.


http://tinyurl.com/2v54xku

The most strange part of the Post article is what is omitted.

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.


Further, "It noted that because of the recession and the government's
spending
to battle the downturn, the amount of U.S. government debt held by the
public
has almost doubled since 2007 and now stands at 64 percent of the economy
as
measured by the gross domestic product, the highest level since 1950.

The IMF said it projected that under current government policies, that
debt
burden would grow to 95 percent of GDP by 2020 and climb to 135 percent of
GDP
by 2030."
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
...talks about the International Monetary Fund's assessment and how Europe
presents the greatest threat to global economic recovery. I see little
difference in how Europe got to where it is and where Obama is leading
this
country. Maybe I'm just myopic.

http://tinyurl.com/2v54xku

The most strange part of the Post article is what is omitted.

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

Further, "It noted that because of the recession and the government's
spending
to battle the downturn, the amount of U.S. government debt held by the
public
has almost doubled since 2007 and now stands at 64 percent of the economy
as
measured by the gross domestic product, the highest level since 1950.

The IMF said it projected that under current government policies, that
debt
burden would grow to 95 percent of GDP by 2020 and climb to 135 percent of
GDP
by 2030."
--
John H


Time to cut back on the overly generous military pensions and benefits.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:18:23 -0400, John H
wrote:

...talks about the International Monetary Fund's assessment and how Europe
presents the greatest threat to global economic recovery. I see little
difference in how Europe got to where it is and where Obama is leading this
country. Maybe I'm just myopic.

actually the difference is huge. europe is pulling back and trying to
cut spending in the midst of a depression. obama is spending, like he
should, and hoping to stave off the depression.


http://tinyurl.com/2v54xku

The most strange part of the Post article is what is omitted.

"WASHINGTON — The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

if one looks at the historical record of the IMF they are strongly
monetarist, ala milton friedman. we already know that model failed.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:54:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.


IMF has to say that to us if they are going to have any credibility
with Greece and the rest of the PIGS

So, does that mean the right-wing should or shouldn't listen to them....

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:33:23 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:54:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.


IMF has to say that to us if they are going to have any credibility
with Greece and the rest of the PIGS

I note no comment from depoop on the article itself.
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:33:23 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:54:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.


IMF has to say that to us if they are going to have any credibility
with Greece and the rest of the PIGS

I note no comment from depoop on the article itself.
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

I notice no discernable intelligence on your part.

Comment on the article... the failed policies of that organization should
not be used as a guideline for solving an economic problem.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:30:10 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:51:18 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:54:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.


IMF has to say that to us if they are going to have any credibility
with Greece and the rest of the PIGS

So, does that mean the right-wing should or shouldn't listen to them....


We are going to have to thread the needle between stimulating the
economy and crashing it with runaway debt.

EXACTLY!!

It is a tipping point situation. Once we lose the confidence of the
lenders, most of them in Europe, the end could come quickly. We are
currently blessed with very low interest rates but that could change
at the next treasury auction.

yep. dead on target

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:51:18 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:54:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the
United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.


IMF has to say that to us if they are going to have any credibility
with Greece and the rest of the PIGS

So, does that mean the right-wing should or shouldn't listen to them....


We are going to have to thread the needle between stimulating the
economy and crashing it with runaway debt.
It is a tipping point situation. Once we lose the confidence of the
lenders, most of them in Europe, the end could come quickly. We are
currently blessed with very low interest rates but that could change
at the next treasury auction.

The treasury has already indicated no change is likely. There's always a
tipping point. The _point_ is that we can't cut back on spending in the
middle of a nasty recession. That was tried and it failed.

I listened to David Frum on NPR. He had an interesting take on inflation,
basically saying that mild inflation would take a big bite out of the debt
situation.

http://www.frumforum.com/the-rising-threat-of-deflation
http://www.frumforum.com/frum-inflation-has-merits

An interesting perspective.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:47:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I listened to David Frum on NPR. He had an interesting take on inflation,
basically saying that mild inflation would take a big bite out of the debt
situation.

It will also take a bite out of your life savings and fixed income if
you have any. Inflation is a hidden tax on the thrifty.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

On Jul 8, 1:54*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.

Of course, D'Plume. To you, it is.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

On Jul 8, 7:02*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:33:23 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:54:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.

IMF has to say that to us if they are going to have any credibility
with Greece and the rest of the PIGS

I note no comment from depoop on the article itself.
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

I notice no discernable intelligence on your part.


You know little if anything concerning intelligence, D'Plume. But,
at least we know what you will answer to.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

On Jul 8, 8:39*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:47:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I listened to David Frum on NPR. He had an interesting take on inflation,
basically saying that mild inflation would take a big bite out of the debt
situation.

It will also take a bite out of your life savings and fixed income if
you have any. *Inflation is a hidden tax on the thrifty.

As John H has previously stated in another thread: "She's not figured
that out yet. "

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:47:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I listened to David Frum on NPR. He had an interesting take on inflation,
basically saying that mild inflation would take a big bite out of the debt
situation.

It will also take a bite out of your life savings and fixed income if
you have any. Inflation is a hidden tax on the thrifty.


Well... sure. It's an issue. It still seems better than deflation, which is
his point.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Jul 8, 8:39 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:47:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I listened to David Frum on NPR. He had an interesting take on
inflation,
basically saying that mild inflation would take a big bite out of the
debt
situation.

It will also take a bite out of your life savings and fixed income if
you have any. Inflation is a hidden tax on the thrifty.

As John H has previously stated in another thread: "She's not figured
that out yet. "

You're a moron. It's clear. You can't have a rational conversation, so you
resort to snorting and chest thumping. That works perfectly if you're an
ape. Case closed.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Jul 8, 7:02 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:33:23 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:54:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the
United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.

IMF has to say that to us if they are going to have any credibility
with Greece and the rest of the PIGS

I note no comment from depoop on the article itself.
--
John H

All decisions are the result of binary thinking.

I notice no discernable intelligence on your part.


You know little if anything concerning intelligence, D'Plume. But,
at least we know what you will answer to.

Here doggy doggy... fetch. No, don't eat your own feces. Bad dog. Sit.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Jul 8, 1:54 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.

Of course, D'Plume. To you, it is.



Of course, you're a stalker and a moron.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

On 08/07/2010 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:54:33 -0700,
wrote:

"WASHINGTON - The International Monetary Fund is calling for the United
States
to make a stronger effort to curb its budget deficits."

http://tinyurl.com/3yj8f3b

So, all of a sudden you've decided to listen to the IMF. Sounds like a
one-world gov't in the making to me.


IMF has to say that to us if they are going to have any credibility
with Greece and the rest of the PIGS

Who knows, they might change it from PIIGS to UPIIGS. But Japan is in a
whole lot of hurt, often omitted. Japan will go down if China missteps.

--
Governemnt debt is tax servitude for the middle class.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:47:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I listened to David Frum on NPR. He had an interesting take on
inflation,
basically saying that mild inflation would take a big bite out of the
debt
situation.

It will also take a bite out of your life savings and fixed income if
you have any. Inflation is a hidden tax on the thrifty.


Well... sure. It's an issue. It still seems better than deflation, which
is his point.


No, not "sure." Inflation is not a tax on the thrifty in a "normal"
economy. Coca-cola going from 5 cents 50 cents hasn't hurt anybody.
There has "always" been inflation. Wages and cost of goods have
"always" inflated. Market forces maintain an equilibrium.
Ordinarily interest gained on savings beat inflation by a couple points.
And fixed income instruments are tied to interest rates.
Social security has COLA.
Even the worst inflation and highest interest rates suffered in the last
century quickly adjusted due to market force equilibrium, and did far
less damage than the Wall Street generated bubbles and subsequent
joblessness we now suffer.

Virtually zero interest rates and zero inflation are unnatural.
The only reason they exist is the Fed manipulation of money supply.
That is done so money is shoveled into Wall Street, which is where the
Fed manipulators come from and who they cater to.
With zero interest on savings, savings is discouraged.
Savings also fuels small business loans and stimulates the economy.
Now that it is becoming clear to those with any sense that Wall Street
is best at offering false promises and shipping jobs offshore, we may
get back to a real economy.
But not until the jokers running the show, ie Summers, Geithner, et al
are tossed out on their keisters.

When the fantasies of everybody becoming wealthy because of Chinese
labor are put to rest, we can get back to work.
Make no mistake, overall wealth is created by labor and the production
of goods, then the creation of services to cater to that wealth.
What we have had for the past 20-30 years is a redistribution of wealth,
from the labor of goods and service providers to financial manipulators.

I laugh when I hear some of these billionaires being applauded for
giving some billions of their many billions to charity.
Nobody questions how they attained those billions, or examines how that
money could have been used to invigorate the economy had it not been
hoarded and closely held, when not employed by Wall Street to ship jobs
offshore.

But in any case most of that wealth is contained in inflated equities
and is not real.
As Wall Street continues to tumble most of it will evaporate back into
the thin air whence it came.
But the financial manipulators and baby boomers who benefited from the
manipulation will still be well ahead of the game with cash and real
estate, as future generations pay for their malfeasance with real labor.
The working youngsters who are now contributing to 401k equities due to
no other avenue for savings are being taken for suckers.

When Wall Street became the center of our economy, the future was
foretold. The center can not hold.

Jim - Former economist. Preacher now. God bless America, rec.boats and
hard work. God damn Wall Street and the love of money over Country.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:47:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I listened to David Frum on NPR. He had an interesting take on
inflation,
basically saying that mild inflation would take a big bite out of the
debt
situation.

It will also take a bite out of your life savings and fixed income if
you have any. Inflation is a hidden tax on the thrifty.


Well... sure. It's an issue. It still seems better than deflation, which
is his point.


No, not "sure." Inflation is not a tax on the thrifty in a "normal"
economy. Coca-cola going from 5 cents 50 cents hasn't hurt anybody.
There has "always" been inflation. Wages and cost of goods have
"always" inflated. Market forces maintain an equilibrium.

WHAT?? Wages and cost of goods have absolutely fallen from time to time.

Sure, eventually market forces go to equilibrium. The problem is the
hardships that ensue when there are no brakes on the phenomenon.

Ordinarily interest gained on savings beat inflation by a couple points.
And fixed income instruments are tied to interest rates.
Social security has COLA.
Even the worst inflation and highest interest rates suffered in the last
century quickly adjusted due to market force equilibrium, and did far
less damage than the Wall Street generated bubbles and subsequent
joblessness we now suffer.

Virtually zero interest rates and zero inflation are unnatural.
The only reason they exist is the Fed manipulation of money supply.
That is done so money is shoveled into Wall Street, which is where the
Fed manipulators come from and who they cater to.
With zero interest on savings, savings is discouraged.
Savings also fuels small business loans and stimulates the economy.
Now that it is becoming clear to those with any sense that Wall Street
is best at offering false promises and shipping jobs offshore, we may
get back to a real economy.
But not until the jokers running the show, ie Summers, Geithner, et al
are tossed out on their keisters.

When the fantasies of everybody becoming wealthy because of Chinese
labor are put to rest, we can get back to work.
Make no mistake, overall wealth is created by labor and the production
of goods, then the creation of services to cater to that wealth.
What we have had for the past 20-30 years is a redistribution of wealth,
from the labor of goods and service providers to financial manipulators.

I laugh when I hear some of these billionaires being applauded for
giving some billions of their many billions to charity.
Nobody questions how they attained those billions, or examines how that
money could have been used to invigorate the economy had it not been
hoarded and closely held, when not employed by Wall Street to ship jobs
offshore.

But in any case most of that wealth is contained in inflated equities
and is not real.
As Wall Street continues to tumble most of it will evaporate back into
the thin air whence it came.
But the financial manipulators and baby boomers who benefited from the
manipulation will still be well ahead of the game with cash and real
estate, as future generations pay for their malfeasance with real labor.
The working youngsters who are now contributing to 401k equities due to
no other avenue for savings are being taken for suckers.

When Wall Street became the center of our economy, the future was
foretold. The center can not hold.

Jim - Former economist. Preacher now. God bless America, rec.boats and
hard work. God damn Wall Street and the love of money over Country.

I guess you never learned about deflation. Not much of an economist, no
wonder you switched to preaching.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:06:07 -0500, Jim wrote:

No, not "sure." Inflation is not a tax on the thrifty in a "normal"
economy. Coca-cola going from 5 cents 50 cents hasn't hurt anybody.
There has "always" been inflation. Wages and cost of goods have
"always" inflated. Market forces maintain an equilibrium.
Ordinarily interest gained on savings beat inflation by a couple points.
And fixed income instruments are tied to interest rates.

Maybe

No. Mostly just untrue. Deflation is a threat that's greater in some
respects to inflation (not hyper-inflation of course).

Social security has COLA.

Not this year and the future is uncertain. We could even see a
reduction in SS payments.

That's not saying much... sure, the future is uncertain.


Virtually zero interest rates and zero inflation are unnatural.
The only reason they exist is the Fed manipulation of money supply.
That is done so money is shoveled into Wall Street, which is where the
Fed manipulators come from and who they cater to.
With zero interest on savings, savings is discouraged.

The zero interest rate the fed has is just another debt.
It is simply a price we will be paying later when they can no longer
manipulate the interest rates because the people who buy our bonds
demand more return for their risk.

The Fed always manipulates rates... this ensures stability, which is why
they're around.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:43:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Ordinarily interest gained on savings beat inflation by a couple points.
And fixed income instruments are tied to interest rates.

Maybe

No. Mostly just untrue. Deflation is a threat that's greater in some
respects to inflation (not hyper-inflation of course).


There is no guarantee that investment interest beats inflation. In
fact over my lifetime I have lived through several periods when
inflation outraced investment by huge numbers. (Think Carter)

Not sure of your point. Yes, you're right. What's that got to do with
deflation?


The zero interest rate the fed has is just another debt.
It is simply a price we will be paying later when they can no longer
manipulate the interest rates because the people who buy our bonds
demand more return for their risk.

The Fed always manipulates rates... this ensures stability, which is why
they're around.



It works as long as people continue to buy our bonds at an interest
rate we can afford. The future of that is uncertain too.

Well, yeah, the future is uncertain. That's not going to change. You can
base your life around fear and live in a hole in the ground or you can plan
for the worst and expect better.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:01:07 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

It works as long as people continue to buy our bonds at an interest
rate we can afford. The future of that is uncertain too.

Well, yeah, the future is uncertain. That's not going to change. You can
base your life around fear and live in a hole in the ground or you can
plan
for the worst and expect better.


I am certainly a lot more concerned about the economy than I am about
global warming.

Unfortunately, they are tightly related and will be even more so in the
future.

OT Great article in Washington Post...
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 20:49:50 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I am certainly a lot more concerned about the economy than I am about
global warming.

Unfortunately, they are tightly related and will be even more so in the
future.

I agree, the carbon tax, if enacted, will crush any chance of a
recovery.

That's certainly unlikely. Again, a right-wing talking point. We generally
have a progressive tax policy. There's no reason to think that it would be
different here.