Failed to pass inspection.
 

Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:04:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco.

and pres bush who appointed a horse lawyer to head FEMA. any better
way to tell the american people to go **** themselves?

Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

golly. it was jim bunning, GOP senator, who refused to gvie working
people unemployment

slavery was always a plank in the GOP platform

Failed to pass inspection.
 

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

Heymann has a pretty good track record as an investigator. Perhaps he should
start his investigation at the top with the big kahuna himself and work his
way down to the minerals commission. He'd dig up enough dirt to start a new
continent.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

he DID appoint a different director of the MMS. that was a failure.
unlike bush, who, after murdering 4400 US troops in afghanistan, stood
by his rich buddy rumsfeld, obama has the insight to know when changes
are needed.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

That's not completely true Salazar was supposed to make some changes, and he
did, but I think it's reasonable to say that it takes a while to fix a
situation that's been going on for decades. I thought he was the wrong
choice to begin with. So, who created MMS under which president? Come on.
You can say it.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

"Moose" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

Heymann has a pretty good track record as an investigator. Perhaps he
should start his investigation at the top with the big kahuna himself and
work his way down to the minerals commission. He'd dig up enough dirt to
start a new continent.


First priority... get that fake Hawaiian birth certificate nailed down.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:02:38 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

he DID appoint a different director of the MMS. that was a failure.

Oh you mean he did something AFTER the blowout.


unlike bush, who, after murdering 4400 US troops in afghanistan, stood
by his rich buddy rumsfeld, obama has the insight to know when changes
are needed.

How is that going. The time last I looked BOTH wars are still going on
and Osama is no closer to being captured than he was on Sept 12 2001.

Yeah, thanks GWB for not capturing him when he had the chance. I guess in
some people's mind 8 years = 16 months.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 11:36:29 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:02:38 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:27:24 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


unlike bush, who, after murdering 4400 US troops in afghanistan, stood
by his rich buddy rumsfeld, obama has the insight to know when changes
are needed.

How is that going. The time last I looked BOTH wars are still going on
and Osama is no closer to being captured than he was on Sept 12 2001.

bush let bin laden escape. bush let him get to pakistan. unless you
think obama should start ANOTHER war, you go ahead and tell me how
obama should get him, OK?

and BOTH wars are going on because it would be criminal to abandon
iraq

you really aren't bright, are you?

Failed to pass inspection.
 

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:09:47 -0400, wrote:



"Creating" in Washington mostly means printing new signs for an old
building. The fact is all DC regulation is done by people who used to
work in that industry and they go back when they lose their government
job. It has been that way since George Washington, not just the recent
George.
I still say if you can't do ANYTHIING in 16 months, how much can we
expect in 8 years?
Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.

I guarantee, If you ask anyone on the Gulf Coast whether they would
rather have clean beaches and their fishing job back or all the
overpriced medical insurance they can't afford they would take the
clean beach.

too bad cheney ****ed 'em isnt it?

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:07:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How is that going. The time last I looked BOTH wars are still going on
and Osama is no closer to being captured than he was on Sept 12 2001.

Yeah, thanks GWB for not capturing him when he had the chance. I guess in
some people's mind 8 years = 16 months.

... or Clinton not taking him when Sudan offered him up to us.
(already suspected in the FIRST WTC bombing in 93)

Umm... that's rewriting history just a bit...

The government of Sudan, employing a back channel direct from its president
to the CIA, offered in early spring 1996 to arrest Osama bin Laden and place
him in Saudi custody, according to officials and former officials in all
three countries.

The Clinton administration struggled to find a way to accept the offer in
secret contacts that stretched from a meeting at an Arlington, Va., hotel on
March 3, 1996, to a fax that closed the door on the effort 10 weeks later.
Unable to persuade the Saudis to accept Mr. bin Laden and lacking a case to
indict him in U.S. courts at the time, the Clinton administration finally
gave up on the capture.

Clinton was actually trying to follow US law.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:04:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

That's not completely true Salazar was supposed to make some changes, and
he
did, but I think it's reasonable to say that it takes a while to fix a
situation that's been going on for decades. I thought he was the wrong
choice to begin with. So, who created MMS under which president? Come on.
You can say it.


"Creating" in Washington mostly means printing new signs for an old
building. The fact is all DC regulation is done by people who used to
work in that industry and they go back when they lose their government
job. It has been that way since George Washington, not just the recent
George.
I still say if you can't do ANYTHIING in 16 months, how much can we
expect in 8 years?
Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).
I guarantee, If you ask anyone on the Gulf Coast whether they would
rather have clean beaches and their fishing job back or all the
overpriced medical insurance they can't afford they would take the
clean beach.

Nope. At one point the agency was created by a former president. Guess who?
Guess who administered it?? Come on, you can say his name.... Rrrrr....
Waaaa.... lol

Obama let the economy go to hell????? That would be GWB over 8 years, and
perhaps going all the way back to Reagan.

No such "overpriced" medical insurance due to Obama. That's a result of
decades of neglect. It's now going to be changed. The change is happening,
even if you don't want to admit/see it.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:22:35 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

How is that going. The time last I looked BOTH wars are still going on
and Osama is no closer to being captured than he was on Sept 12 2001.

bush let bin laden escape. bush let him get to pakistan. unless you
think obama should start ANOTHER war, you go ahead and tell me how
obama should get him, OK?

and BOTH wars are going on because it would be criminal to abandon
iraq

At the time we were chasing Osama in Tora Bora we just had a small
contingent of CIA and special Ops people there calling in air strikes.
That was the way the plan was supposed to work. The special Ops people
were in trouble when the local war lords turned against them and there
is no guarantee 1000 or even 10,000 more troops hastily dropped in
there with no real plan, would have turned the tide up in those
mountains. It would have just sent a lot more American kids home in
body bags.

Your Iraq statement sounds like what Nixon said about Vietnam.
I suppose we could still be fighting that war too.

Well, you're certainly right, but the plan, devised by Rumsfeld et. al.,
overruled what the military recommended.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:34:28 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:07:08 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How is that going. The time last I looked BOTH wars are still going on
and Osama is no closer to being captured than he was on Sept 12 2001.

Yeah, thanks GWB for not capturing him when he had the chance. I guess
in
some people's mind 8 years = 16 months.

... or Clinton not taking him when Sudan offered him up to us.
(already suspected in the FIRST WTC bombing in 93)

Umm... that's rewriting history just a bit...

The government of Sudan, employing a back channel direct from its
president
to the CIA, offered in early spring 1996 to arrest Osama bin Laden and
place
him in Saudi custody, according to officials and former officials in all
three countries.

The Clinton administration struggled to find a way to accept the offer in
secret contacts that stretched from a meeting at an Arlington, Va., hotel
on
March 3, 1996, to a fax that closed the door on the effort 10 weeks later.
Unable to persuade the Saudis to accept Mr. bin Laden and lacking a case
to
indict him in U.S. courts at the time, the Clinton administration finally
gave up on the capture.

Clinton was actually trying to follow US law.


If they used the same level of proof they used on David Koresh they
could have just ambushed him and killed him for resisting arrest.
What you are really saying was the DoJ and CIA was so much asleep at
the switch that they couldn't build a case.

... or was it that they did not want to offend the Saudis?


Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out to be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

I'm not saying anything. The fact is that no case could be made. Clinton
regretted, publically, his failure to do so.

Saudis? I believe bin laden was no longer a citizen at that point.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:23:53 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.


Let's see what the hall open season has to offer, then you decide how
great this "free" health care plan is working. The insurance company
is already hiking the rates for the families who want to take
advantage of the preexisting condition and those who want to put
their 20 somethings on the policy.
The big medicine people will do just fine. They are going to sell more
government paid for drugs and doctors/hospitals will get more
patients. I still have not seen anything to control the cost, They
just increased availability

There's no "free healthcare plan" as you well know. It's a capitalistic
system. Again, enough of the crazy misinformation.

If they're "hiking the rates," then it must not be free. You've got yours,
but you're unwilling to let anyone else in? That's what it sounds like.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:37:25 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:04:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
Those miles of boom in Maine supposedly failed inspection although
they meet ASTM standards and were considered "superior" by an
independent inspector. I suspect they failed cuz they were not made
from "free range nylon". Ya know, it's sorta like all those school
busses in katrina that couldn't be used for evac cuz they didn't
have
seat belts, all them peeps died courtesy of Mayor Nagin and Dem Gov
Blanco. Way to go Dems, Keel them poor people and drive em to ruin
to
put em on welfare.

Anyone want to tell Froggy who created the MMS? Under which president?
Anyone??


Who did absolutely zero to CHANGE it in the last 16 months? (hint: it
was Mr Change)
If it was so corrupt Obama should have fixed it BEFORE he started
proposing more offshore drilling. It is not a question of a long
process that wasn't finished. Fixing MMS had not even started so he
must have been happy with them.

That's not completely true Salazar was supposed to make some changes,
and
he
did, but I think it's reasonable to say that it takes a while to fix a
situation that's been going on for decades. I thought he was the wrong
choice to begin with. So, who created MMS under which president? Come
on.
You can say it.


"Creating" in Washington mostly means printing new signs for an old
building. The fact is all DC regulation is done by people who used to
work in that industry and they go back when they lose their government
job. It has been that way since George Washington, not just the recent
George.
I still say if you can't do ANYTHIING in 16 months, how much can we
expect in 8 years?
Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).
I guarantee, If you ask anyone on the Gulf Coast whether they would
rather have clean beaches and their fishing job back or all the
overpriced medical insurance they can't afford they would take the
clean beach.

Nope. At one point the agency was created by a former president. Guess
who?
Guess who administered it?? Come on, you can say his name.... Rrrrr....
Waaaa.... lol

Quick question, who regulated offshore drilling before MMS?
(hint, it was the same people, with a different sign on the building)

Obama let the economy go to hell????? That would be GWB over 8 years, and
perhaps going all the way back to Reagan.

No such "overpriced" medical insurance due to Obama. That's a result of
decades of neglect. It's now going to be changed. The change is happening,
even if you don't want to admit/see it.

When do you expect medical insurance to start getting cheaper?
Will I still be alive? Will you?


Hint: Mr. Reagan and James Watt started the agency. No body was "regulating"
the industry before or after (unfortunately).

I'm not going to quote the CBO again, since you'll just say you don't
believe them. I thought you said it was free anyway.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

On 6/18/10 12:22 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:23:53 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.


Let's see what the hall open season has to offer, then you decide how
great this "free" health care plan is working. The insurance company
is already hiking the rates for the families who want to take
advantage of the preexisting condition and those who want to put
their 20 somethings on the policy.
The big medicine people will do just fine. They are going to sell more
government paid for drugs and doctors/hospitals will get more
patients. I still have not seen anything to control the cost, They
just increased availability

There's no "free healthcare plan" as you well know. It's a capitalistic
system. Again, enough of the crazy misinformation.

If they're "hiking the rates," then it must not be free. You've got
yours, but you're unwilling to let anyone else in? That's what it sounds
like.





The key to understanding gfretwell is to realize that no matter the
issue or politician, what he mostly sees is the downside or the moral
equivalence of everyone and everything. In his eyes, Jonas Salk and Dick
Cheney are no better than each other. :)

Failed to pass inspection.
 

On 6/18/10 12:33 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:20:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If they used the same level of proof they used on David Koresh they
could have just ambushed him and killed him for resisting arrest.
What you are really saying was the DoJ and CIA was so much asleep at
the switch that they couldn't build a case.

... or was it that they did not want to offend the Saudis?


Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out to be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

Certainly he was a nut but the country is full of them.
Who was the biggest threat to America?


Dick Cheney, even though he wasn't veep then.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

On 6/18/10 12:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:21:14 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/18/10 12:22 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:23:53 -0400, wrote:

Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.


Let's see what the hall open season has to offer, then you decide how
great this "free" health care plan is working. The insurance company
is already hiking the rates for the families who want to take
advantage of the preexisting condition and those who want to put
their 20 somethings on the policy.
The big medicine people will do just fine. They are going to sell more
government paid for drugs and doctors/hospitals will get more
patients. I still have not seen anything to control the cost, They
just increased availability

There's no "free healthcare plan" as you well know. It's a capitalistic
system. Again, enough of the crazy misinformation.

If they're "hiking the rates," then it must not be free. You've got
yours, but you're unwilling to let anyone else in? That's what it sounds
like.





The key to understanding gfretwell is to realize that no matter the
issue or politician, what he mostly sees is the downside or the moral
equivalence of everyone and everything. In his eyes, Jonas Salk and Dick
Cheney are no better than each other. :)

My job was always "the fixer" so I look at things as what can go wrong
and what can you do about it.
In the case of Obamacare, the Senate bill was written be a couple
United Health Care lobbyists so "what could go wrong" is very easy to
predict


I don't buy your premise. I see the bill that passed as only a first
step. Further, the bill was all that could be passed.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:20:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If they used the same level of proof they used on David Koresh they
could have just ambushed him and killed him for resisting arrest.
What you are really saying was the DoJ and CIA was so much asleep at
the switch that they couldn't build a case.

... or was it that they did not want to offend the Saudis?


Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out to be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

Certainly he was a nut but the country is full of them.
Who was the biggest threat to America?

The Republicans? :)

I'm not saying anything. The fact is that no case could be made. Clinton
regretted, publically, his failure to do so.

Saudis? I believe bin laden was no longer a citizen at that point.


The Bin Laden family was still a big player in Saudi Arabia and
Clinton was afraid to stir up anything that might have jiggled the
price of oil and crashed his rising economy.

They had disowned him, and even Bush was complicit in flying his family out
after 9/11...

In a more enlightened time we would have just had a foreign national,
working for the CIA, put a bullet in his ear.

Actually bin laden did get CIA (or other? US help) when fighting the
Soviets.

How many lives would that have saved? (Iraqi, Afghani and American)
200,000?

Total agreement there... but we really need to set a good example even if
it's not expedient.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:23:58 -0400, Harry
wrote:

Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out to
be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

Certainly he was a nut but the country is full of them.
Who was the biggest threat to America?


Dick Cheney, even though he wasn't veep then.

No Al Gore was veep and in the end he may end up being the biggest
threat to the republic ever. This TV evangelist has created a scam
bigger than the derivative market where we will be paying billions of
dollars for worthless "carbon credits" and we will be buying them from
his company. 3d world countries will be selling us trees for
outrageous prices and then cutting them down anyway.
You only have to look at the freon credit program to see that kind of
abuse. Countries now manufacture CFCs for the express purpose of
selling the credits when they destroy them

Come on! He might hype it a little bit, but adverse global climate change is
the biggest national threat we have.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:22:29 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:23:53 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.


Let's see what the hall open season has to offer, then you decide how
great this "free" health care plan is working. The insurance company
is already hiking the rates for the families who want to take
advantage of the preexisting condition and those who want to put
their 20 somethings on the policy.
The big medicine people will do just fine. They are going to sell more
government paid for drugs and doctors/hospitals will get more
patients. I still have not seen anything to control the cost, They
just increased availability

There's no "free healthcare plan" as you well know. It's a capitalistic
system. Again, enough of the crazy misinformation.

If they're "hiking the rates," then it must not be free. You've got yours,
but you're unwilling to let anyone else in? That's what it sounds like.


They are hiking the rates because their liabilities have been
increased
They are making insurance companies take on more risk (or in the case
of preexisting conditions a known liability) so the premiums will get
raised to cover that. Insurance companies are just bookies. They don't
care what the bet is, as long as they can lay it off and they still
collect the vig.
Remember, this bill was written by UHC lobbyists.

So far, none of this has happened. Costs will go down over time and save us
billions in the next decade alone. And, we not done with the legislation.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:21:14 -0400, Harry
wrote:

On 6/18/10 12:22 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:23:53 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

Obama shot his whole wad on this health care gift to the big medicine
lobby and let the rest of the country go to hell (or stay in hell if
that is what you think Bush was).

which was one HELLUVAN accomplishment. and the 'big medicine' lobby
is not too happy with obama

so either you're bull****ting or you're lying.


Let's see what the hall open season has to offer, then you decide how
great this "free" health care plan is working. The insurance company
is already hiking the rates for the families who want to take
advantage of the preexisting condition and those who want to put
their 20 somethings on the policy.
The big medicine people will do just fine. They are going to sell more
government paid for drugs and doctors/hospitals will get more
patients. I still have not seen anything to control the cost, They
just increased availability

There's no "free healthcare plan" as you well know. It's a capitalistic
system. Again, enough of the crazy misinformation.

If they're "hiking the rates," then it must not be free. You've got
yours, but you're unwilling to let anyone else in? That's what it sounds
like.





The key to understanding gfretwell is to realize that no matter the
issue or politician, what he mostly sees is the downside or the moral
equivalence of everyone and everything. In his eyes, Jonas Salk and Dick
Cheney are no better than each other. :)

My job was always "the fixer" so I look at things as what can go wrong
and what can you do about it.
In the case of Obamacare, the Senate bill was written be a couple
United Health Care lobbyists so "what could go wrong" is very easy to
predict

You don't like Jonas Salk? :(

It's the first of many steps to fix the healthcare cost/delivery system.
This is going to take some time.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:19:24 -0400, Harry
wrote:

In the case of Obamacare, the Senate bill was written be a couple
United Health Care lobbyists so "what could go wrong" is very easy to
predict


I don't buy your premise. I see the bill that passed as only a first
step. Further, the bill was all that could be passed.

That is what scares me. This might be a framework for a real health
care plan but, more likely, it will just be a huge pork barrel where
they keep adding on to it until it becomes another bloated government
money pit.

Well, that's possible, but that's why we need to be vigilant and hold
Congress accountable for what they do.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:24:23 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Quick question, who regulated offshore drilling before MMS?
(hint, it was the same people, with a different sign on the building)


Hint: Mr. Reagan and James Watt started the agency. No body was
"regulating"
the industry before or after (unfortunately).

I thought it was GW's fault. Are you saying Clinton deregulated
drilling? I guess I am confused.

I didn't mention Clinton, but he didn't fix the problem either. So, he would
be complicit on some level. Bush made things worse for sure.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:42:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:23:58 -0400, Harry
wrote:

Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out
to
be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

Certainly he was a nut but the country is full of them.
Who was the biggest threat to America?


Dick Cheney, even though he wasn't veep then.

No Al Gore was veep and in the end he may end up being the biggest
threat to the republic ever. This TV evangelist has created a scam
bigger than the derivative market where we will be paying billions of
dollars for worthless "carbon credits" and we will be buying them from
his company. 3d world countries will be selling us trees for
outrageous prices and then cutting them down anyway.
You only have to look at the freon credit program to see that kind of
abuse. Countries now manufacture CFCs for the express purpose of
selling the credits when they destroy them

Come on! He might hype it a little bit, but adverse global climate change
is
the biggest national threat we have.

Do you really think taxing carbon and using the money to buy trees in
Guatemala will change that, particularly when there is no real
guarantee the trees will stay bought.


Don't know. I'm not a carbon tax expert. Something needs to get done. If
that's a positive step, I'm all for it.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:41:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

The Bin Laden family was still a big player in Saudi Arabia and
Clinton was afraid to stir up anything that might have jiggled the
price of oil and crashed his rising economy.

They had disowned him, and even Bush was complicit in flying his family
out
after 9/11...

Make up your mind, either the family is part of the problem or they
were innocent


It's not my mind that is made or unmade. This was Bush's decision. I think
you'd need to ask him.

In a more enlightened time we would have just had a foreign national,
working for the CIA, put a bullet in his ear.

Actually bin laden did get CIA (or other? US help) when fighting the
Soviets.

Exactly. They knew how to get at him.

Ok... but, they didn't. Your solution is....


How many lives would that have saved? (Iraqi, Afghani and American)
200,000?

Total agreement there... but we really need to set a good example even if
it's not expedient.


That was the point of using a foreign national and having plausible
deniability. I am old enough to remember when we were very good at
that and the world was actually a lot more peaceful place.


Fidel's cigars? :)

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:46:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That is what scares me. This might be a framework for a real health
care plan but, more likely, it will just be a huge pork barrel where
they keep adding on to it until it becomes another bloated government
money pit.

Well, that's possible, but that's why we need to be vigilant and hold
Congress accountable for what they do.

How is that working out so far. I saw a projection today, using
Obama's numbers that the interest on the debt will be $900 billion in
a few years. That assumes interest rates are stable. Indications are
they will go up sharply was world liquidity drops.

It's a bit early to tell how things will ultimately shake out, but spending
in general and the HC legislation HAD to happen or we'd be in much worse
shape, certainly going forward. There are no "indications" that interest
rates will go up sharply... what liquidity? The money supply is stable.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:47:25 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Hint: Mr. Reagan and James Watt started the agency. No body was
"regulating"
the industry before or after (unfortunately).

I thought it was GW's fault. Are you saying Clinton deregulated
drilling? I guess I am confused.

I didn't mention Clinton, but he didn't fix the problem either. So, he
would
be complicit on some level. Bush made things worse for sure.

You said "Nobody was "regulating" the industry before or after
(unfortunately).Reagan was after and Carter was before".
I couldn't take it any other way.

If Bush started MMS he must have been trying to build the framework
for regulation. (like you say the health care bill did)

The reality is, there were always people at Interior who were
regulating drilling. All they did when they "created" MMS was put a
different logo on their stationary and put a new political appointee
in charge of them. The job down in the trenches never really changes
that much if you are a GSer doing the actual work.

Reagan/Watt started MMS... look it up. Bush just filled it to the brim with
cronies of big oil.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:42:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:23:58 -0400, Harry
wrote:

Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him out
to
be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

Certainly he was a nut but the country is full of them.
Who was the biggest threat to America?


Dick Cheney, even though he wasn't veep then.

No Al Gore was veep and in the end he may end up being the biggest
threat to the republic ever. This TV evangelist has created a scam
bigger than the derivative market where we will be paying billions of
dollars for worthless "carbon credits" and we will be buying them from
his company. 3d world countries will be selling us trees for
outrageous prices and then cutting them down anyway.
You only have to look at the freon credit program to see that kind of
abuse. Countries now manufacture CFCs for the express purpose of
selling the credits when they destroy them

Come on! He might hype it a little bit, but adverse global climate change
is
the biggest national threat we have.

Do you really think taxing carbon and using the money to buy trees in
Guatemala will change that, particularly when there is no real
guarantee the trees will stay bought.


Don't know. I'm not a carbon tax expert. Something needs to get done. If
that's a positive step, I'm all for it.


What if it isn't a positive step. What do you think you'd be for then?

Failed to pass inspection.
 

On 6/18/10 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:17:55 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

No Al Gore was veep and in the end he may end up being the biggest
threat to the republic ever. This TV evangelist has created a scam
bigger than the derivative market where we will be paying billions of
dollars for worthless "carbon credits" and we will be buying them from
his company. 3d world countries will be selling us trees for
outrageous prices and then cutting them down anyway.
You only have to look at the freon credit program to see that kind of
abuse. Countries now manufacture CFCs for the express purpose of
selling the credits when they destroy them

Come on! He might hype it a little bit, but adverse global climate change
is
the biggest national threat we have.

Do you really think taxing carbon and using the money to buy trees in
Guatemala will change that, particularly when there is no real
guarantee the trees will stay bought.


Don't know. I'm not a carbon tax expert. Something needs to get done. If
that's a positive step, I'm all for it.


I was only addressing the Al Gore solution to the problem he defined.
Personally I only have one observation. I an not sure if it is more
arrogant to think man caused global warming or that man can stop
global warming.

We better just make plans to live in a warmer world. That is where we
should be spending our money.


Don't tell froggy that...he'll "invent" stilts for houses and try to
sell them to Nebraskans.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:46:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That is what scares me. This might be a framework for a real health
care plan but, more likely, it will just be a huge pork barrel where
they keep adding on to it until it becomes another bloated government
money pit.

Well, that's possible, but that's why we need to be vigilant and hold
Congress accountable for what they do.

How is that working out so far. I saw a projection today, using
Obama's numbers that the interest on the debt will be $900 billion in
a few years. That assumes interest rates are stable. Indications are
they will go up sharply was world liquidity drops.

It's a bit early to tell how things will ultimately shake out, but
spending in general and the HC legislation HAD to happen or we'd be in
much worse shape, certainly going forward. There are no "indications" that
interest rates will go up sharply... what liquidity? The money supply is
stable.


You be sure to let us know if things take a sudden turn for the worse.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:42:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:23:58 -0400, Harry
wrote:

Koresh was a maniac. He didn't deserve to die, but don't put him
out to
be
some kind of American hero standing up to Big Gov't.

Certainly he was a nut but the country is full of them.
Who was the biggest threat to America?


Dick Cheney, even though he wasn't veep then.

No Al Gore was veep and in the end he may end up being the biggest
threat to the republic ever. This TV evangelist has created a scam
bigger than the derivative market where we will be paying billions of
dollars for worthless "carbon credits" and we will be buying them from
his company. 3d world countries will be selling us trees for
outrageous prices and then cutting them down anyway.
You only have to look at the freon credit program to see that kind of
abuse. Countries now manufacture CFCs for the express purpose of
selling the credits when they destroy them

Come on! He might hype it a little bit, but adverse global climate
change is
the biggest national threat we have.

Do you really think taxing carbon and using the money to buy trees in
Guatemala will change that, particularly when there is no real
guarantee the trees will stay bought.


Don't know. I'm not a carbon tax expert. Something needs to get done. If
that's a positive step, I'm all for it.


What if it isn't a positive step. What do you think you'd be for then?


I'll take this as a serious question, even though I know it isn't. It's
unclear if a carbon tax is the best way to go. It seems like it would have a
positive short-term effect, but I'd like to hear more (and not some
right-wing screamer).

What if it was proved that all the deep water oil wells are dangerous to the
point of imminent failure? What if we had to permanently shut them down?
Perhaps we need to have a dedicated program and comprehensive energy policy
that looks at our strategic national interest. Not perhaps.. we do. That
would be an even more positive step.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:17:55 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

No Al Gore was veep and in the end he may end up being the biggest
threat to the republic ever. This TV evangelist has created a scam
bigger than the derivative market where we will be paying billions of
dollars for worthless "carbon credits" and we will be buying them from
his company. 3d world countries will be selling us trees for
outrageous prices and then cutting them down anyway.
You only have to look at the freon credit program to see that kind of
abuse. Countries now manufacture CFCs for the express purpose of
selling the credits when they destroy them

Come on! He might hype it a little bit, but adverse global climate
change
is
the biggest national threat we have.

Do you really think taxing carbon and using the money to buy trees in
Guatemala will change that, particularly when there is no real
guarantee the trees will stay bought.


Don't know. I'm not a carbon tax expert. Something needs to get done. If
that's a positive step, I'm all for it.


I was only addressing the Al Gore solution to the problem he defined.
Personally I only have one observation. I an not sure if it is more
arrogant to think man caused global warming or that man can stop
global warming.

We better just make plans to live in a warmer world. That is where we
should be spending our money.

Al Gore's solution may be one piece of the solution. Human beings are
absolutely the cause of adverse climate change. I don't know if we have the
ability to fix it, but we have to try. You're talking about dooming millions
to extreme hardship if not death. There are no legitimate solutions that
will fix that problem without fixing the underlying cause.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:19:36 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:41:33 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

The Bin Laden family was still a big player in Saudi Arabia and
Clinton was afraid to stir up anything that might have jiggled the
price of oil and crashed his rising economy.

They had disowned him, and even Bush was complicit in flying his family
out
after 9/11...

Make up your mind, either the family is part of the problem or they
were innocent


It's not my mind that is made or unmade. This was Bush's decision. I think
you'd need to ask him.

I do not have a problem with him helping the Bin Laden family to get
home. I had a problem with him stopping the other 50 million families
from getting home.
I think the whole post 9-11 policy is over-reaction.

Oh... like the shoe-bomber-take-my-shoes-off bs. I hate that. Who wants to
put your feet on God-knows what. Blech. I agree. We really over-reacted, and
we gave up too much. In that sense, he accomplished quite a bit.


In a more enlightened time we would have just had a foreign national,
working for the CIA, put a bullet in his ear.

Actually bin laden did get CIA (or other? US help) when fighting the
Soviets.

Exactly. They knew how to get at him.

Ok... but, they didn't. Your solution is....


Ignore the ******* until he gets comfortable and sticks his head up,
then shoot him. I guess you have never been squirrel hunting.

Never... ewww... how could you kill a furry little guy?? I have no doubt
that there is a plan for that if we can't get good ground intelligence to
drop a 500 lbs bomb on his head.


How many lives would that have saved? (Iraqi, Afghani and American)
200,000?

Total agreement there... but we really need to set a good example even
if
it's not expedient.


That was the point of using a foreign national and having plausible
deniability. I am old enough to remember when we were very good at
that and the world was actually a lot more peaceful place.


Fidel's cigars? :)

If Eisenhower was still president in 1961, Fidel would be a footnote
in the history books. No missile crisis, no embargo, no Angola war and
no Granada war.
That guy knew how to get things done covertly and efficiently.

If we hadn't had the Granada "war", we wouldn't have had that movie with
Clint Eastwood, old but cool hunk of hunks.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:21:43 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I saw a projection today, using
Obama's numbers that the interest on the debt will be $900 billion in
a few years. That assumes interest rates are stable. Indications are
they will go up sharply was world liquidity drops.

It's a bit early to tell how things will ultimately shake out, but
spending
in general and the HC legislation HAD to happen or we'd be in much worse
shape, certainly going forward. There are no "indications" that interest
rates will go up sharply... what liquidity? The money supply is stable.

We still do not know how this Euro thing is going to work out. Bear in
mind, more than half of our foreign owned debt is from European
sources. If they lose the ability to buy our paper, that paper will be
harder to sell, hence the auction will be higher

I think that's at least a plausible argument. I think the European Union is
here to stay, but it might scale back.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:46:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That is what scares me. This might be a framework for a real health
care plan but, more likely, it will just be a huge pork barrel where
they keep adding on to it until it becomes another bloated government
money pit.

Well, that's possible, but that's why we need to be vigilant and hold
Congress accountable for what they do.

How is that working out so far. I saw a projection today, using
Obama's numbers that the interest on the debt will be $900 billion in
a few years. That assumes interest rates are stable. Indications are
they will go up sharply was world liquidity drops.

It's a bit early to tell how things will ultimately shake out, but
spending in general and the HC legislation HAD to happen or we'd be in
much worse shape, certainly going forward. There are no "indications"
that interest rates will go up sharply... what liquidity? The money
supply is stable.


You be sure to let us know if things take a sudden turn for the worse.


There's a signpost up ahead - your next stop, the Twilight Zone! (No, not
the Twilight movie.)

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:22:40 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

You said "Nobody was "regulating" the industry before or after
(unfortunately).Reagan was after and Carter was before".
I couldn't take it any other way.

If Bush started MMS he must have been trying to build the framework
for regulation. (like you say the health care bill did)

The reality is, there were always people at Interior who were
regulating drilling. All they did when they "created" MMS was put a
different logo on their stationary and put a new political appointee
in charge of them. The job down in the trenches never really changes
that much if you are a GSer doing the actual work.

Reagan/Watt started MMS... look it up. Bush just filled it to the brim
with
cronies of big oil.


You miss my point. In DC these things are just assemblies of things
that are already there as a rule. If they "change" something, usually
the only thing that changes is the sign on the door. It will still be
the same people doing the work.

In regulation, it is always a group of cronies from the industry being
regulated. That is why Obama has the same people trying to fix the
financial mess who caused it in the first place.


I'd like to know who you think could sort out the financial mess other than
the people who are familiar with the problems. But, I know what you mean...
it's like getting a car thief to design an anti-theft device. That's fine,
as long as they don't use it to their own advantage.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:02:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I was only addressing the Al Gore solution to the problem he defined.
Personally I only have one observation. I an not sure if it is more
arrogant to think man caused global warming or that man can stop
global warming.

We better just make plans to live in a warmer world. That is where we
should be spending our money.

Al Gore's solution may be one piece of the solution. Human beings are
absolutely the cause of adverse climate change. I don't know if we have
the
ability to fix it, but we have to try. You're talking about dooming
millions
to extreme hardship if not death. There are no legitimate solutions that
will fix that problem without fixing the underlying cause.


"Human induced climate change" is the part that you do get
disagreement about among scientists. The predominance do agree it is
getting warmer but that support starts dropping off when you start
assessing blame on why. The CO2 trend is 8000 years old, more closely
tied to agriculture than anything else.. In that regard, it is more
closely related to population than industrialization. I suppose if we
reduced the population to the 1900 levels, we *might* reduce CO2 to
1900 levels.

The "predominance" agree it's human caused. You can quote all the numbers
you want, but that's a fact.

Failed to pass inspection.
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:07:11 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I do not have a problem with him helping the Bin Laden family to get
home. I had a problem with him stopping the other 50 million families
from getting home.
I think the whole post 9-11 policy is over-reaction.

Oh... like the shoe-bomber-take-my-shoes-off bs. I hate that. Who wants to
put your feet on God-knows what. Blech. I agree. We really over-reacted,
and
we gave up too much. In that sense, he accomplished quite a bit.

The terrorists have won in my opinion. As a nation, we are certainly
terrorized enough to be giving up our freedom.

Nah. They might have "won" a battle, but the war over our constitution has
been going on for 200 years. A bunch of people living in caves aren't
powerful enough to win.