On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:49:15 +0000 (UTC), Brian Welcott
wrote:

And an engine greatly enhances safety in many circumstances.
What I am suggesting is that you should well know your inclinations
before selecting your boat.
You may be a stinkpotter at heart, and find a trawler more suitable.
There are also motor-sailors available if you want to hedge your bet.

There's some good advice there but also some anti engine inuendo that
we could do without. I've done a lot of sailboat distance racing in
the past so I'm well aware that it is possible to sail 100% of the
time regardless of conditions. Waiting for wind however is not half
the fun and some people find it to be pure torture, especially with
the sails slatting around, the sun beating down relentlessly, and a
cloud of black flys moving in for the kill. It is also a big issue
for people with jobs who have to schedule time off in advance and
return promptly when expected.

It is also a fact that the average cruising boat is not set up for
efficient light wind sailing. That requires a lot of attention to
minimizing weight, top notch sails in flawless condition, an
obsession with keeping the bottom/keel/rudder smooth and clean, etc.

Wayne.B wrote in
:


There's some good advice there but also some anti engine inuendo that
we could do without.

Don't know where you saw that. I clearly stated that any flavor of power
is up to the individual.
No sailor is compelled to use or not use an engine.
If you are offended that some choose to use sail almost exclusively, that
is for you to deal with.
Just as those running under sail must deal with any offense you offer them.

Regards, Brian

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:49:15 +0000 (UTC), Brian Welcott
wrote:

And an engine greatly enhances safety in many circumstances.
What I am suggesting is that you should well know your inclinations
before selecting your boat.
You may be a stinkpotter at heart, and find a trawler more suitable.
There are also motor-sailors available if you want to hedge your bet.

There's some good advice there but also some anti engine inuendo that
we could do without. I've done a lot of sailboat distance racing in
the past so I'm well aware that it is possible to sail 100% of the
time regardless of conditions. Waiting for wind however is not half
the fun and some people find it to be pure torture, especially with
the sails slatting around, the sun beating down relentlessly, and a
cloud of black flys moving in for the kill. It is also a big issue
for people with jobs who have to schedule time off in advance and
return promptly when expected.

It is also a fact that the average cruising boat is not set up for
efficient light wind sailing. That requires a lot of attention to
minimizing weight, top notch sails in flawless condition, an
obsession with keeping the bottom/keel/rudder smooth and clean, etc.


You mean like a spinnaker? I think there's another... not a gennaker...
can't think of it. Sort of between the two.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:32:15 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

It is also a fact that the average cruising boat is not set up for
efficient light wind sailing. That requires a lot of attention to
minimizing weight, top notch sails in flawless condition, an
obsession with keeping the bottom/keel/rudder smooth and clean, etc.


You mean like a spinnaker? I think there's another... not a gennaker...
can't think of it. Sort of between the two.

Sailboats that are really serious about performance don't carry just
one spinnaker, more like 3, 4 or 5, one for every possible wind
strength and apparent wind angle. Nothing improves a boats light wind
speed like a spinnaker but the wind has to be from the right
direction, and it takes crew with expertise to set, douse and trim
them. An experienced crew on a racing sailboat, as conditions change,
can set a new spinnaker inside the old one, douse the original, and
continue on with no loss in speed during the maneuver.

"Brian Welcott" wrote in message
...
"nom=de=plume" wrote in
:

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
.
..
Even the best sailboat cannot sail much closer than 45 degrees to the
wind so this means at least 1/4 of the time you cannot sail directly
toward your destination (2*45 =90 which is 1/4 of 360). On a loaded
cruising boat, you will be lucky to get to within 55 degrees of the
wind so this eliminates 110 out of 360 degrees or 30%.
Where I live, NO wind at least 1/2 the time leaving only 35% of the
time you can sail toward your destination. About half the time while
trying to cruise, you get short of time so you end up motoring
directly toward your destination getting you down to 17.5% of the
time you can sail directly toward your destination. Around here,
roughly 30% of the time the widn is blowing, it is a thunderstorm or
tropical storm getting you down to somewhere between 10 -13% of the
time you can sail toward your destination. This is why cruising
sailboats need adequate engines.


Interesting numbers. Of course, out here the wind is pretty high I
think. By adequate... what do you mean? It needs to power the boat in
most conditions, but if you're offshore and there's wind, you're
likely sailing right? I can see needing something adequate in the bay
or on the coast. The link I found said the boat had a 50hp, which
seems pretty good for a 42' boat. Perhaps fuel capacity is also an
important issue...


Much of this has to do with your "sailing" personality.
Despite what the OP has said, there are plenty of cruising sailors who
seldom use an engine.
Even a knot of wind will move a boat, and zephyrs of 2-5 knots are often
at work even on flat seas.
Dead calm conditions are not common for cruisers.

Hey, I saw that movie!

The impatient will turn on the engine, others will wait for the wind to
return.
Against the wind tacking is part of sailing, so all these points of
compass wind direction percentages are pretty meaningless.
Unless you are a stinkpotter at heart.
Note how this fellow has managed to work it out that in essence you can
sail only 10-13% of the time.
Yet I know sailors who commonly sail off anchor in almost calm
conditions, and only rarely motor off.
With them, it is motoring that might comprise 10% of their movement.
Sails are not meant to get you from one place to another quickly.
If your goal is to move from port to port expeditiously, you will usually
find yourself motoring.
If you are a "sail" sailor at heart, you will nearly always sail, and the
wind will set your schedule. Impatience is not an option, nor desired.
This is not to say an engine isn't useful, or that one should not use an
engine, or even that mostly motoring a sailboat isn't a valid option.
And an engine greatly enhances safety in many circumstances.
What I am suggesting is that you should well know your inclinations
before selecting your boat.
You may be a stinkpotter at heart, and find a trawler more suitable.
There are also motor-sailors available if you want to hedge your bet.

Regards, Brian

I never liked engines. Didn't have one certainly when I had the Hobie. We
did beach starts all the time... mostly in fact.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:28:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I never liked engines.

A lot of sailboat owners feel that way, and it is one of the reasons
that so many sailboats have engine problems. Every boat needs someone
who can empathize with an engine and keep it happy.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:28:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I never liked engines.

A lot of sailboat owners feel that way, and it is one of the reasons
that so many sailboats have engine problems. Every boat needs someone
who can empathize with an engine and keep it happy.


Yeah, I think that would mostly not be me. But, point taken. Perhaps a
diesel maintenance class would be worth it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Apr 21, 3:28*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Brian Welcott" wrote in message

...





"nom=de=plume" wrote in
:

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
.
..
Even the best sailboat cannot sail much closer than 45 degrees to the
wind so this means at least 1/4 of the time you cannot sail directly
toward your destination (2*45 =90 which is 1/4 of 360). *On a loaded
cruising boat, you will be lucky to get to within 55 degrees of the
wind so this eliminates 110 out of 360 degrees or 30%.
Where I live, NO wind at least 1/2 the time leaving only 35% of the
time you can sail toward your destination. *About half the time while
trying to cruise, you get short of time so you end up motoring
directly toward your destination getting you down to 17.5% of the
time you can sail directly toward your destination. *Around here,
roughly 30% of the time the widn is blowing, it is a thunderstorm or
tropical storm getting you down to somewhere between 10 -13% of the
time you can sail toward your destination. *This is why cruising
sailboats need adequate engines.

Interesting numbers. Of course, out here the wind is pretty high I
think. By adequate... what do you mean? It needs to power the boat in
most conditions, but if you're offshore and there's wind, you're
likely sailing right? I can see needing something adequate in the bay
or on the coast. The link I found said the boat had a 50hp, which
seems pretty good for a 42' boat. Perhaps fuel capacity is also an
important issue...

Much of this has to do with your "sailing" personality.
Despite what the OP has said, there are plenty of cruising sailors who
seldom use an engine.
Even a knot of wind will move a boat, and zephyrs of 2-5 knots are often
at work even on flat seas.
Dead calm conditions are not common for cruisers.

Hey, I saw that movie!





The impatient will turn on the engine, others will wait for the wind to
return.
Against the wind tacking is part of sailing, so all these points of
compass wind direction percentages are pretty meaningless.
Unless you are a stinkpotter at heart.
Note how this fellow has managed to work it out that in essence you can
sail only 10-13% of the time.
Yet I know sailors who commonly sail off anchor in almost calm
conditions, and only rarely motor off.
With them, it is motoring that might comprise 10% of their movement.
Sails are not meant to get you from one place to another quickly.
If your goal is to move from port to port expeditiously, you will usually
find yourself motoring.
If you are a "sail" sailor at heart, you will nearly always sail, and the
wind will set your schedule. *Impatience is not an option, nor desired.
This is not to say an engine isn't useful, or that one should not use an
engine, or even that mostly motoring a sailboat isn't a valid option.
And an engine greatly enhances safety in many circumstances.
What I am suggesting is that you should well know your inclinations
before selecting your boat.
You may be a stinkpotter at heart, and find a trawler more suitable.
There are also motor-sailors available if you want to hedge your bet.

Regards, Brian

I never liked engines. Didn't have one certainly when I had the Hobie. We
did beach starts all the time... mostly in fact.

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Then again, isn't launching a Hobie a bit diffrent than a 40 ft.
cutter?

Im not a blow boater, but I'd think that on that size of a craft I'd
want at least a 65 hp diesel. And a good one too!

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Apr 21, 3:28 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Brian Welcott" wrote in message

...





"nom=de=plume" wrote in
:

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
.
..
Even the best sailboat cannot sail much closer than 45 degrees to the
wind so this means at least 1/4 of the time you cannot sail directly
toward your destination (2*45 =90 which is 1/4 of 360). On a loaded
cruising boat, you will be lucky to get to within 55 degrees of the
wind so this eliminates 110 out of 360 degrees or 30%.
Where I live, NO wind at least 1/2 the time leaving only 35% of the
time you can sail toward your destination. About half the time while
trying to cruise, you get short of time so you end up motoring
directly toward your destination getting you down to 17.5% of the
time you can sail directly toward your destination. Around here,
roughly 30% of the time the widn is blowing, it is a thunderstorm or
tropical storm getting you down to somewhere between 10 -13% of the
time you can sail toward your destination. This is why cruising
sailboats need adequate engines.

Interesting numbers. Of course, out here the wind is pretty high I
think. By adequate... what do you mean? It needs to power the boat in
most conditions, but if you're offshore and there's wind, you're
likely sailing right? I can see needing something adequate in the bay
or on the coast. The link I found said the boat had a 50hp, which
seems pretty good for a 42' boat. Perhaps fuel capacity is also an
important issue...

Much of this has to do with your "sailing" personality.
Despite what the OP has said, there are plenty of cruising sailors who
seldom use an engine.
Even a knot of wind will move a boat, and zephyrs of 2-5 knots are often
at work even on flat seas.
Dead calm conditions are not common for cruisers.

Hey, I saw that movie!





The impatient will turn on the engine, others will wait for the wind to
return.
Against the wind tacking is part of sailing, so all these points of
compass wind direction percentages are pretty meaningless.
Unless you are a stinkpotter at heart.
Note how this fellow has managed to work it out that in essence you can
sail only 10-13% of the time.
Yet I know sailors who commonly sail off anchor in almost calm
conditions, and only rarely motor off.
With them, it is motoring that might comprise 10% of their movement.
Sails are not meant to get you from one place to another quickly.
If your goal is to move from port to port expeditiously, you will
usually
find yourself motoring.
If you are a "sail" sailor at heart, you will nearly always sail, and
the
wind will set your schedule. Impatience is not an option, nor desired.
This is not to say an engine isn't useful, or that one should not use an
engine, or even that mostly motoring a sailboat isn't a valid option.
And an engine greatly enhances safety in many circumstances.
What I am suggesting is that you should well know your inclinations
before selecting your boat.
You may be a stinkpotter at heart, and find a trawler more suitable.
There are also motor-sailors available if you want to hedge your bet.

Regards, Brian

I never liked engines. Didn't have one certainly when I had the Hobie. We
did beach starts all the time... mostly in fact.

--
Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Then again, isn't launching a Hobie a bit diffrent than a 40 ft.
cutter?

Sheesh... I *hope* so! That boat took two of us and sometimes some help.

Im not a blow boater, but I'd think that on that size of a craft I'd
want at least a 65 hp diesel. And a good one too!

I've never read of anything over a 50hp, but I don't really know.

--
Nom=de=Plume

nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...

Even the best sailboat cannot sail much closer than 45 degrees to the
wind so this means at least 1/4 of the time you cannot sail directly
toward your destination (2*45 =90 which is 1/4 of 360). On a loaded
cruising boat, you will be lucky to get to within 55 degrees of the
wind so this eliminates 110 out of 360 degrees or 30%.
Where I live, NO wind at least 1/2 the time leaving only 35% of the
time you can sail toward your destination. About half the time while
trying to cruise, you get short of time so you end up motoring
directly toward your destination getting you down to 17.5% of the time
you can sail directly toward your destination. Around here, roughly
30% of the time the widn is blowing, it is a thunderstorm or tropical
storm getting you down to somewhere between 10 -13% of the time you
can sail toward your destination. This is why cruising sailboats need
adequate engines.


Interesting numbers. Of course, out here the wind is pretty high I think. By
adequate... what do you mean? It needs to power the boat in most conditions,
but if you're offshore and there's wind, you're likely sailing right? I can
see needing something adequate in the bay or on the coast. The link I found
said the boat had a 50hp, which seems pretty good for a 42' boat. Perhaps
fuel capacity is also an important issue...


Perhaps?