On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:34:57 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:59:11 -0400, wrote:

The reason I live a good live is I paid myself first. I saved and
invested, even back when my tax rate was over 20%. The typical middle
class tax rate is far less than 10% now if I take your number of
100,000,000 people to define them.

and 50% of americans have less than 10,000 in their 401k's.

do you hate them all?

Of those 50%, how many lease a nice car, live in a home that is a maximum
mortgage or rent a nice place? I made good money, drove a Chevrolet, Ford,
VW, and Toyota and Chevy LUV pickup over the years. As Greg states. Pay
yourself first. We took resonable vacations with the kids and even after
they left home.

it's funny...you begrudge hard working middle class americans the
fruit of their labor

americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work
200 hours more than europeans and japanese.

we have marginal health insurance. no vacations. no retirement.

and the right wing says we're not working hard enough to make sure
wall street stays rich

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:10:22 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:46:39 -0400, bpuharic wrote:


americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work
200 hours more than europeans and japanese.



Yet the Europeans save about 3 times as much as Americans
You said you were working 60 hour weeks. That is 175% of your base
salary and you didn't think you should be saving some of that?

i'm salaried. i dont overtime

and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.

it's now worth what it was 10 years ago. i should have spent it on
whores and booze like john paulson did when he looted goldman sachs
for a billion

yet in your mind he's a hero because he's rich, and i'm an idiot
because i'm a hard working middle class guy

shows what moral values the right has

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...


and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.




You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in your
401K.
You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance,
success and work of others.

A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market *can*
produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans. That,
plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them attractive.

But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks
associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong.

In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock market
than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement based
on it.

Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly on
my own performance.

Eisboch

On 4/18/10 11:25 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...


and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.




You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in your
401K.
You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance,
success and work of others.

A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market *can*
produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans. That,
plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them attractive.

But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks
associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong.

In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock market
than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement based
on it.

Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly on
my own performance.

Eisboch




Agreed, and since wall street was and is operated by crooks whose
primary goal is to enrich themselves by whatever means necessary,
investing in wall street offerings is both risky and stupid.

--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

"hk" wrote in message
m...
On 4/18/10 11:25 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...


and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.




You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in
your
401K.
You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance,
success and work of others.

A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market
*can*
produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans.
That,
plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them
attractive.

But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks
associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong.

In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock
market
than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement
based
on it.

Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly
on
my own performance.

Eisboch




Agreed, and since wall street was and is operated by crooks whose primary
goal is to enrich themselves by whatever means necessary, investing in
wall street offerings is both risky and stupid.


Sorry but I can't agree totally to that. There certainly have been some
companies managed by greed. There have been some run by outright crooks.
But I also believe that there are many that are run honestly,within the law
that offer good produces, services and investment opportunities.

With one exception, the few stocks I hold are in companies that I know
something about, am familiar with their products and track records and, in
some cases, know some of the senior management.
I based my risk of investment on that knowledge. They don't make major
headlines, aren't involved in shareholder fraud lawsuits, or otherwise show
up much on the radar screen. They are all well managed, successful without
being greedy and have shown an ability to adapt to changing times and
markets.

I've held them for many years. Despite the wild swings in the economy and
crash of 2008, the modest investments I made have steadily grown 5 to 6
times or more.

The only "new" stock I bought recently was Ford and did so when they were at
about $1.46 a share and GM and Chrysler were just about goners. (well,
actually, they *were* goners).

I was impressed by the determination of Ford to forego government bailout
money and attempt to make it on their own. So far they have.

I can't say that for the brokerage houses that manage investments via 401K
contributions or direct investments, but I am not qualified to judge. I've
never used one. Don't trust them.

Eisboch

On 4/18/10 12:06 PM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 4/18/10 11:25 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...


and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.




You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in
your
401K.
You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance,
success and work of others.

A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market
*can*
produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans.
That,
plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them
attractive.

But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks
associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong.

In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock
market
than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement
based
on it.

Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly
on
my own performance.

Eisboch




Agreed, and since wall street was and is operated by crooks whose primary
goal is to enrich themselves by whatever means necessary, investing in
wall street offerings is both risky and stupid.


Sorry but I can't agree totally to that. There certainly have been some
companies managed by greed. There have been some run by outright crooks.
But I also believe that there are many that are run honestly,within the law
that offer good produces, services and investment opportunities.

With one exception, the few stocks I hold are in companies that I know
something about, am familiar with their products and track records and, in
some cases, know some of the senior management.
I based my risk of investment on that knowledge. They don't make major
headlines, aren't involved in shareholder fraud lawsuits, or otherwise show
up much on the radar screen. They are all well managed, successful without
being greedy and have shown an ability to adapt to changing times and
markets.

I've held them for many years. Despite the wild swings in the economy and
crash of 2008, the modest investments I made have steadily grown 5 to 6
times or more.

The only "new" stock I bought recently was Ford and did so when they were at
about $1.46 a share and GM and Chrysler were just about goners. (well,
actually, they *were* goners).

I was impressed by the determination of Ford to forego government bailout
money and attempt to make it on their own. So far they have.

I can't say that for the brokerage houses that manage investments via 401K
contributions or direct investments, but I am not qualified to judge. I've
never used one. Don't trust them.

Eisboch




Ahhh. Well, I got entirely out of the market some years ago, but I've
crept back in a little. Bought some Apple stock last year at about $130
or so, and it is doing ok.



--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:06:19 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:




Sorry but I can't agree totally to that. There certainly have been some
companies managed by greed.

gee. which ones weren't?

notice how the right tells us the middle class DESERVES to get ****ed
because they're not rich BUT that that wall street is composed of
upstanding citizens

****, even alan greenspan doesn't believe THAT bull**** anymore. but
the right does!

There have been some run by outright crooks.
But I also believe that there are many that are run honestly,within the law
that offer good produces, services and investment opportunities.

you're gonna make me cry. i feel like i'm watching 'terms of
endearment'.


With one exception, the few stocks I hold are in companies that I know
something about, am familiar with their products and track records and, in
some cases, know some of the senior management.

blah blah blah. it's all about you. the 100,000,000 hard working
middle class workers who got raped, the professionals who got
duped...well they're all crooks, according to the right wing because
paul johnson made a billion dollars by defrauding the market like a
good american should

christ this is pathetic.

On 18/04/2010 11:30 AM, bpuharic wrote:

notice how the right tells us the middle class DESERVES to get ****ed
because they're not rich BUT that that wall street is composed of
upstanding citizens

****, even alan greenspan doesn't believe THAT bull**** anymore. but
the right does!

Alan Greenspan even admited he is part of why this whole debt mess
f---ed the economy. I would rather pick Ron Paul who predicted it 5
years in advance as congressional debt management was not sustainable.

Want to be rich? Change your thinking. It is all about attitude.
Think like a loser, be a loser. Think like a rich winner, get off your
ass and make it happen. All about attitude.

Here is a hint:

Debtors think about how to welsh on debt.
Rich think about managing money.

So:

To have money, means you don't want debt.

--
Time to ask, is our government serving us or are we serving the government?

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:06:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:27:42 -0400, hk
wrote:



Agreed, and since wall street was and is operated by crooks whose
primary goal is to enrich themselves by whatever means necessary,
investing in wall street offerings is both risky and stupid.

I don't think you can buck the rich people but you can hitch a ride
with them. The only trick is to pay attention

ROFLMAO!!! goldman sach defrauded its investors...PROFESSIONALS...but
the right wing says it's all the fault of the middle class!


.. Stocks are not for "set
it and forget it" investing. You have to understand the power of
market orders and stop loss orders. Beyond that you only have to watch
the news. The market is 30% fundamentals and 70% emotion. A good or
bad news blitz will swing a stock a lot more than a change in th

so much for 'rational' market theory of the right wing chicago school.
looks like he just bought into the 'behavioral economics' of liberal
nobel prize winner paul krugman...who's been telling us what thieves
wall street is.

On 18/04/2010 9:25 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...


and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K
since congress created it 30 years ago.




You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in your
401K.
You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance,
success and work of others.

A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market *can*
produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans. That,
plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them attractive.

But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks
associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong.

In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock market
than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement based
on it.

Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly on
my own performance.

Eisboch
I would not call that arrogance, just good old fashioned self worth,
investing in yourself. Good attitude.



--
Time to ask, is our government serving us or are we serving the government?