On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:29:10 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 20:11:27 -0400, bpuharic wrote:



There is no surprise that stocks and dividends get special treatment.

yeah. they're owned by the rich.

Politicians take credit for a vibrant stock market.
Most of Bill Clinton's "great economy" was due to a booming market.
Even Greenspan, cheerleader for excess, called it "irrational". Some
of that was due to Clinton slashing the cap gains tax rate

and cutting the cap gains tax cut did precisely

zero

for the middle class. made the rich fantastically rich.

blew out the middle class


You seriously underestimate who owns stocks. I am far from rich and I
have always had a pretty good position in equities.
You are a fool if you don't. Has anyone ever explained how many fees
you are paying for that 401k

actually has anyone explained to you about the 50% matching and the
tax benefits? don't know of any investment that gives you 50% on your
money

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 23:52:21 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:57:13 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

You seriously underestimate who owns stocks. I am far from rich and I
have always had a pretty good position in equities.
You are a fool if you don't. Has anyone ever explained how many fees
you are paying for that 401k

actually has anyone explained to you about the 50% matching and the
tax benefits? don't know of any investment that gives you 50% on your
money

I understand the matching and I took all they would match but that is
far from universal these days. There are big companies that don't
match at all. They are just doing that in lieu of a real pension
program.
The real problem is you don't know what the taxes on that money are
going to be when you take it out. You can bet your ass a government
that is going broke will be eyeing that big pile of money
The other problem is what do you think will happen to the stock market
when 83 million boomers start cashing in those 401ks?
I bet you will get your wish then and they will start treating capital
gains like ordinary income to slow selling but you don't get that
break on a 401k anyway.
Finally, you are whining constantly about haw badly the money managers
have treated your 401k money in the last few years and I am doing fine
running my own money

unfortunately i work for a living. i dont have the time to work AND
watch what the rich are doing. some of us have a life.

and, yes, i dont know what the tax man will do. but given that the
rich have impoverished the middle class by destroying pensions and
raiding 401k's now, there''s little to complain about; the damage is
done. that's why the rich need to pay more taxes NOW.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 06:14:56 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 23:52:21 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:57:13 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

You seriously underestimate who owns stocks. I am far from rich and I
have always had a pretty good position in equities.
You are a fool if you don't. Has anyone ever explained how many fees
you are paying for that 401k

actually has anyone explained to you about the 50% matching and the
tax benefits? don't know of any investment that gives you 50% on your
money

I understand the matching and I took all they would match but that is
far from universal these days. There are big companies that don't
match at all. They are just doing that in lieu of a real pension
program.
The real problem is you don't know what the taxes on that money are
going to be when you take it out. You can bet your ass a government
that is going broke will be eyeing that big pile of money
The other problem is what do you think will happen to the stock market
when 83 million boomers start cashing in those 401ks?
I bet you will get your wish then and they will start treating capital
gains like ordinary income to slow selling but you don't get that
break on a 401k anyway.
Finally, you are whining constantly about haw badly the money managers
have treated your 401k money in the last few years and I am doing fine
running my own money

unfortunately i work for a living. i dont have the time to work AND
watch what the rich are doing. some of us have a life.

and, yes, i dont know what the tax man will do. but given that the
rich have impoverished the middle class by destroying pensions and
raiding 401k's now, there''s little to complain about; the damage is
done. that's why the rich need to pay more taxes NOW.

The middle class needs to pay more taxes too. We have the lowest tax
rates I have seen in the 48 years I have paid taxes. The idea that the
middle class (any couple making less than $250k) is getting slammed
with taxes is just ludicrous. You are falling for the Limbaugh
diatribe now.

I find it hard to believe your rates are so low while your government is
running such a hugh deficit.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 06:14:56 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 23:52:21 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:57:13 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

You seriously underestimate who owns stocks. I am far from rich and I
have always had a pretty good position in equities.
You are a fool if you don't. Has anyone ever explained how many fees
you are paying for that 401k

actually has anyone explained to you about the 50% matching and the
tax benefits? don't know of any investment that gives you 50% on your
money

I understand the matching and I took all they would match but that is
far from universal these days. There are big companies that don't
match at all. They are just doing that in lieu of a real pension
program.
The real problem is you don't know what the taxes on that money are
going to be when you take it out. You can bet your ass a government
that is going broke will be eyeing that big pile of money
The other problem is what do you think will happen to the stock market
when 83 million boomers start cashing in those 401ks?
I bet you will get your wish then and they will start treating capital
gains like ordinary income to slow selling but you don't get that
break on a 401k anyway.
Finally, you are whining constantly about haw badly the money managers
have treated your 401k money in the last few years and I am doing fine
running my own money

unfortunately i work for a living. i dont have the time to work AND
watch what the rich are doing. some of us have a life.

and, yes, i dont know what the tax man will do. but given that the
rich have impoverished the middle class by destroying pensions and
raiding 401k's now, there''s little to complain about; the damage is
done. that's why the rich need to pay more taxes NOW.

The middle class needs to pay more taxes too. We have the lowest tax
rates I have seen in the 48 years I have paid taxes. The idea that the
middle class (any couple making less than $250k) is getting slammed
with taxes is just ludicrous. You are falling for the Limbaugh
diatribe now.


Perhaps ultimately people making between, say $100K and $250K will have to
pay a bit more. For now, it's not viable as you well know. Again, name a
viable solution... please!

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:20:12 -0400, wrote:


The middle class needs to pay more taxes too. We have the lowest tax
rates I have seen in the 48 years I have paid taxes. The idea that the
middle class (any couple making less than $250k) is getting slammed
with taxes is just ludicrous. You are falling for the Limbaugh
diatribe now.

hardly.

the middle class hasn't had a pay increase in 10 years. the wealthiest
1% have seen their incomes triple in the same time.

taxes haven't gone down. nor has cost of living.

the middle class needs a tax reduction. the rich got theirs.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 20:11:27 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 20:03:18 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 18:46:45 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 12:08:04 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 01:31:41 -0700, jps wrote:

Every time you drive up to the pump, you pay more in federal tax for a
single gallon of gasoline (18.4 cents) than ExxonMobil paid in U.S.
income taxes in 2009. That's in spite of the fact that the world's
second largest company had a gross operating profit of nearly $53

Corporations don't pay taxes, their customers do..

and since their customers are not necessarily all of us, it's
irrelevant. their stockholders pay taxes...not enough...but they do

I take it you don't own stocks.

in my 401K. i have no income from stocks at all. none.


There is no surprise that stocks and dividends get special treatment.

yeah. they're owned by the rich.

Politicians take credit for a vibrant stock market.
Most of Bill Clinton's "great economy" was due to a booming market.
Even Greenspan, cheerleader for excess, called it "irrational". Some
of that was due to Clinton slashing the cap gains tax rate

and cutting the cap gains tax cut did precisely

zero

for the middle class. made the rich fantastically rich.

blew out the middle class


You seriously underestimate who owns stocks. I am far from rich and I
have always had a pretty good position in equities.
You are a fool if you don't. Has anyone ever explained how many fees
you are paying for that 401k? It is one of the biggest scams in the
history of robbing the little guy and by the time the tax man gets
through with you, you would have been better off keeping your money
under your mattress.


401K are still a good deal. I certainly did really well with mine. They
matched a percentage, which was icing on the cake.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 19:39:21 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Has anyone ever explained how many fees
you are paying for that 401k? It is one of the biggest scams in the
history of robbing the little guy and by the time the tax man gets
through with you, you would have been better off keeping your money
under your mattress.


401K are still a good deal. I certainly did really well with mine. They
matched a percentage, which was icing on the cake.

I agree the match was a good deal but the 401k itself, not so much.
Fees are typically several percent a year and over the life of a
career's worth of a 401k that can easily cost you close a million
dollars.
We still don't have a clue what the tax implications and market impact
will be when the boomers start pulling their money.
I have long predicted that the taxes on 401ks in the next decade will
end up being more than if you had just paid them when you earned the
money. I am looking at rolling mine into a Roth while these tax rates
are so low.


The 401K is the vehicle whereby people who work for companies save for their
retirement in a somewhat responsible manner. It's fine if you have the will
to do it yourself, but many don't.

Sure.. there's no absolute certainty that the tax rates will be lower for
those who retire. But, historically, that's what happens.

Roths are good if you can do it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 22:19:50 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Sure.. there's no absolute certainty that the tax rates will be lower for
those who retire. But, historically, that's what happens.

History is irrelevant

Whew... that's a pretty bold statement. Are you sure you subscribe to that
notion? There are lots of bad things that can happen if you ignore history.

There has never been a retirement cadre the size of the boomers in the
history of the world. Europe is in more trouble than the US because of
their demographics. We are going to end up with less than 3 workers
per retiree. That is unsustainable. There is really no "savings" in
any real way. We are simply invested in the dreams of growth and the
likely rate of growth can't sustain the investment.

Well, I guess we should all hide under the bed. So far, and I haven't heard
one single viable solution to this situation. The Republicans are certainly
doing nothing, not even bothering to work a full schedule. The Democrats are
mostly trying, but the rabid reactions of those on the far right and the
lobbying money flowing aren't helping. When people listen to the likes of
Beck/Rush, guys who make millions a year, guys who couldn't give a hoot
about anyone save themselves, and the people can't figure out they're worse
than snake-oil salesmen, there's no telling what'll happen. I prefer to
believe that sanity will prevail, given our history of making good choices
(eventually).

--
Nom=de=Plume