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Are manatee-crossing signs next?
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...skee-bay-prot/
Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"Tim" wrote in message
... http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...skee-bay-prot/ Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... We wouldn't want you to have to throttle back to protect another life. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Feb 23, 10:00*am, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
wrote in message
... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) This is probably an exercise in futility but I'll give it one try. Manatees are listed as endangered only because of the high powered lobbying efforts of the well funded Save The Manatee Club. STMC members have donated millions of dollars and the club feels an obligation to spend that money lobbying for new regulations, needed or not. Most places in South Florida have enough Manatees that they are at risk of over breeding their habitat. How would youfeel about a 5 mph speed limit on your local highway to prevent the risk of road kill? |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Feb 24, 3:00*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) This is probably an exercise in futility but I'll give it one try. Manatees are listed as endangered only because of the high powered lobbying efforts of the well funded Save The Manatee Club. STMC members have donated millions of dollars and the club feels an obligation to spend that money lobbying for new regulations, needed or not. * Most places in South Florida have enough Manatees that they are at risk of over breeding their habitat. How would youfeel about a 5 mph speed limit on your local highway to prevent the risk of road kill? Mayb they ought to train them to eat or kill carp and ship a few up on the Illinois river. |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"Manatee hot tub" That line still cracks me up.
HAHAHAHA! ?;^ ) |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Feb 24, 4:00*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) This is probably an exercise in futility but I'll give it one try. Manatees are listed as endangered only because of the high powered lobbying efforts of the well funded Save The Manatee Club. STMC members have donated millions of dollars and the club feels an obligation to spend that money lobbying for new regulations, needed or not. * Most places in South Florida have enough Manatees that they are at risk of over breeding their habitat. How would youfeel about a 5 mph speed limit on your local highway to prevent the risk of road kill? Something about that doesn't make sense to me. Manatees were in the Florida waters long before boats. They didn't need boats killing them off then to keep their numbers in check, why do they need boats to keep the population in check now? |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
|
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Feb 24, 11:11*am, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message .. . On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" *who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So you are saying these decisions are made on the Federal level and the folks in your state are bound by them? Scotty |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Feb 24, 9:26*am, I am Tosk
wrote: In article , says... "Manatee hot tub" *That line still cracks me up. HAHAHAHA! ?;^ ) I have a visual already thank you. I have to walk by the hot tub at the gym every once in a while. I can't imagine a real manatee would be worse! My eyes! My eyes!!! I'm bliiiiiiiiiiinnnnd!! -- Can I haz Cheezeburger? Throw a head of lettuce in that hot tub and see what surfaces. ?;^ ) |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
|
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:00:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) This is probably an exercise in futility ... No ****. Manatees are listed as endangered only because of the high powered lobbying efforts of the well funded Save The Manatee Club. STMC members have donated millions of dollars and the club feels an obligation to spend that money lobbying for new regulations, needed or not. Most places in South Florida have enough Manatees that they are at risk of over breeding their habitat. How would youfeel about a 5 mph speed limit on your local highway to prevent the risk of road kill? -- John H |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:47:53 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote: In article , says... On Feb 24, 9:26*am, I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... "Manatee hot tub" *That line still cracks me up. HAHAHAHA! ?;^ ) I have a visual already thank you. I have to walk by the hot tub at the gym every once in a while. I can't imagine a real manatee would be worse! My eyes! My eyes!!! I'm bliiiiiiiiiiinnnnd!! -- Can I haz Cheezeburger? Throw a head of lettuce in that hot tub and see what surfaces. ?;^ ) ugh... Thanks Tim, ruuuuuuuuuppppp I think I just puked a little. Scotty Does manatee **** float? That could be a good reason to start thinning the herd. -- John H |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Feb 24, 12:06*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:17:48 -0800 (PST), "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote: I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" *who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So you are saying these decisions are made on the Federal level and the folks in your state are bound by them? Yes- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - How do the legislature and enforcement feel about these decisions? Are they fighting, could you cut off funds or refuse to enforce like States with Marijuana laws? Or are the state leaders not interested for whatever reason in taking on this fight? As someone outside your state, based on what I see "spoon fed" to me is there are plenty of Manatees, they are a problem, and I don't agree with the protections the Fed has initiated... Scotty Scotty |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) This is probably an exercise in futility but I'll give it one try. Manatees are listed as endangered only because of the high powered lobbying efforts of the well funded Save The Manatee Club. STMC members have donated millions of dollars and the club feels an obligation to spend that money lobbying for new regulations, needed or not. Most places in South Florida have enough Manatees that they are at risk of over breeding their habitat. How would youfeel about a 5 mph speed limit on your local highway to prevent the risk of road kill? So, the number they gave of about 2000 is wrong? If so, then you must have a number you can point to? At some point, someone has to make a determination about if a species is endangered or not. It's currently the ESA. The claim was they they don't list them, but they do. I brake for lots of creatures, but a highway is a bit different than on the water. I don't want to get in a wreck over a squirrel. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"Tim" wrote in message
... On Feb 24, 3:00 am, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) This is probably an exercise in futility but I'll give it one try. Manatees are listed as endangered only because of the high powered lobbying efforts of the well funded Save The Manatee Club. STMC members have donated millions of dollars and the club feels an obligation to spend that money lobbying for new regulations, needed or not. Most places in South Florida have enough Manatees that they are at risk of over breeding their habitat. How would youfeel about a 5 mph speed limit on your local highway to prevent the risk of road kill? Mayb they ought to train them to eat or kill carp and ship a few up on the Illinois river. I think they're vegg--sauruses. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
|
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:37:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: So, the number they gave of about 2000 is wrong? If so, then you must have a number you can point to? At some point, someone has to make a determination about if a species is endangered or not. It's currently the ESA. The claim was they they don't list them, but they do. Latest count: 5,067 - a new record high. http://citrusdaily.com/local-news/cold-weather-results-record-manatee-count/2010/01/21/25690.html I brake for lots of creatures, but a highway is a bit different than on the water. I don't want to get in a wreck over a squirrel. Water is also a form of transportation for many of us, no difference at all. |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
wrote in message
... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
wrote in message
... On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:38:05 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- I prefer "conservationist" in the Teddy Roosevelt vein. Environmentalism is a cult religion. Careful... the National Parks should be privatized according to some. :) -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) -- Nom=de=Plume They're a non-native species and they pollute the waters. Let's send them home. |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume Yeah "Sorry, my 3 year old sweet little human child, but the poor cougar is doing what it's supposed to by dragging you off for lunch". Not much of an internal struggle for a parent: bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:53 -0500, "mmc" wrote:
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) -- Nom=de=Plume They're a non-native species and they pollute the waters. Let's send them home. Kinda like what many think of nincdepoop's relationship to rec.boats. -- John H |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"mmc" wrote in message
g.com... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message m... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume Yeah "Sorry, my 3 year old sweet little human child, but the poor cougar is doing what it's supposed to by dragging you off for lunch". Not much of an internal struggle for a parent: bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang Perhaps if the sweet little human child had parents who had an ounce of sense, the child wouldn't get eaten. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"mmc" wrote in message
g.com... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) -- Nom=de=Plume They're a non-native species and they pollute the waters. Let's send them home. Sorry, but you're wrong... http://www.fws.gov/northflorida/mana...tive-facts.htm -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"John H" wrote in message
... On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:53 -0500, "mmc" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) -- Nom=de=Plume They're a non-native species and they pollute the waters. Let's send them home. Kinda like what many think of nincdepoop's relationship to rec.boats. -- John H Kinda like your relationship to reality. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Feb 24, 2:11*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:37:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) This is probably an exercise in futility but I'll give it one try. Manatees are listed as endangered only because of the high powered lobbying efforts of the well funded Save The Manatee Club. STMC members have donated millions of dollars and the club feels an obligation to spend that money lobbying for new regulations, needed or not. * Most places in South Florida have enough Manatees that they are at risk of over breeding their habitat. How would youfeel about a 5 mph speed limit on your local highway to prevent the risk of road kill? So, the number they gave of about 2000 is wrong? If so, then you must have a number you can point to? At some point, someone has to make a determination about if a species is endangered or not. It's currently the ESA. The claim was they they don't list them, but they do. I brake for lots of creatures, but a highway is a bit different than on the water. I don't want to get in a wreck over a squirrel. http://www.news-press.com/article/20...028/Huge-numbe... Bear in mind this is just the ones they can see, in the places they looked. Usually people without an axe to grind will double that number for a real count for any given area and then you have to just wild assed guess about the areas you don't survey. They usually count in the winter when the "natural" population moves south, out of the US waters so they are really only counting the domesticated ones around the power plants. The ESA is usually just being used as a "tool" to stop development around here. I don't really have a problem with that because there are too many people here now but I do agree with people who say it is dishonest. They had used the manatee to stop dock construction but the state got sued for a "taking" and they quietly backed off. That is much like the Reahard case that severely limited "taking" wetlands without just compensation. If that was more publically known I am sure there are lots of people who would be suing over rezonings. That one cost Lee County $22 million for 40 acres a guy couldn't develop. We have had quite a few cases like that around here that redefined the government's power but they don't seem to be well known outside this area. We had an indian who proved there was no such thing as a Florida Panther with DNA but the government folded up their briefcases and settled before that went to a decision. They dont' look very endangered to me. They look more like pets... http://www.treehugger.com/manatee-sy...rida-photo.jpg |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
wrote in message
... On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:32:01 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: I prefer "conservationist" in the Teddy Roosevelt vein. Environmentalism is a cult religion. Careful... the National Parks should be privatized according to some. :) ... but remember Teddy R was the one who started the park system. I see no confusion there. I can see privatizing the operation of the parks but that is already going on. The government should maintain ownership. That was my point... he started it, but I'm sure there are lots of people who are upset about it. I don't think park operations should be privatized, except in the most minimally intrusive ways. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
wrote in message
... On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:59:19 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: They're a non-native species and they pollute the waters. Let's send them home. Sorry, but you're wrong... http://www.fws.gov/northflorida/mana...tive-facts.htm -- Correct, the thing that is different is we have created a year round presence, concentrated around a half dozen power plants where this used to be a migratory species that was only here in the summer. In that regard the ESA should have prohibited the thermal pollution of the power plants and allowed the manatee to resume their normal migratory patterns. No argument here. We've screwed up lots of things... sigh. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message om... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume Yeah "Sorry, my 3 year old sweet little human child, but the poor cougar is doing what it's supposed to by dragging you off for lunch". Not much of an internal struggle for a parent: bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang Perhaps if the sweet little human child had parents who had an ounce of sense, the child wouldn't get eaten. -- Nom=de=Plume Bull. We have had more deaths from mountain lions in the last 5 years, than in the previous 100 years. Sort of like Sea Lions. No reason to be a protected species. Overpopulated now, and dieing of starvation, etc. The deer herds are being decimated my lions, as well as the Big Horn sheep. When they were hunted, they were never in danger of being on the Endangerd species list, and they were controlled in numbers and kept away from man. |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Feb 25, 1:44*pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message ng.com... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message om... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there.. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" *who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume Yeah "Sorry, my 3 year old sweet little human child, but the poor cougar is doing what it's supposed to by dragging you off for lunch". Not much of an internal struggle for a parent: bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang Perhaps if the sweet little human child had parents who had an ounce of sense, the child wouldn't get eaten. -- Nom=de=Plume Bull. *We have had more deaths from mountain lions in the last 5 years, than in the previous 100 years. *Sort of like Sea Lions. *No reason to be a protected species. *Overpopulated now, and dieing of starvation, etc. *The deer herds are being decimated my lions, as well as the Big Horn sheep. When they were hunted, they were never in danger of being on the Endangerd species list, and they were controlled in numbers and kept away from man.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Gee, makes you wonder how these animal's numbers were kept in check before man inhabited the area and started "controlling" there numbers....... |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message news:dc39o5lmppc6p9tun8t0oreorr0s707bnn@4ax. com... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume Yeah "Sorry, my 3 year old sweet little human child, but the poor cougar is doing what it's supposed to by dragging you off for lunch". Not much of an internal struggle for a parent: bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang Perhaps if the sweet little human child had parents who had an ounce of sense, the child wouldn't get eaten. -- Nom=de=Plume Bull. We have had more deaths from mountain lions in the last 5 years, than in the previous 100 years. Sort of like Sea Lions. No reason to be a protected species. Overpopulated now, and dieing of starvation, etc. The deer herds are being decimated my lions, as well as the Big Horn sheep. When they were hunted, they were never in danger of being on the Endangerd species list, and they were controlled in numbers and kept away from man. ?? You're claiming that mountain lions are targeting kids? You're a fool. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"Loogypicker" wrote in message ... On Feb 25, 1:44 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message ng.com... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message om... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume Yeah "Sorry, my 3 year old sweet little human child, but the poor cougar is doing what it's supposed to by dragging you off for lunch". Not much of an internal struggle for a parent: bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang Perhaps if the sweet little human child had parents who had an ounce of sense, the child wouldn't get eaten. -- Nom=de=Plume Bull. We have had more deaths from mountain lions in the last 5 years, than in the previous 100 years. Sort of like Sea Lions. No reason to be a protected species. Overpopulated now, and dieing of starvation, etc. The deer herds are being decimated my lions, as well as the Big Horn sheep. When they were hunted, they were never in danger of being on the Endangerd species list, and they were controlled in numbers and kept away from man.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Gee, makes you wonder how these animal's numbers were kept in check before man inhabited the area and started "controlling" there numbers....... Other predators that are no longer around. Last grizzly bear in California died in 1934. Coyotes were the major predator of Sea Lions. Now they have protected rookeries, and few coytotes. We also grow lots of food so some of the animals have expanded lots. And then when that supply is downgraded, we are left with an imbalance. |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message news:dc39o5lmppc6p9tun8t0oreorr0s707bnn@4ax .com... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume Yeah "Sorry, my 3 year old sweet little human child, but the poor cougar is doing what it's supposed to by dragging you off for lunch". Not much of an internal struggle for a parent: bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang Perhaps if the sweet little human child had parents who had an ounce of sense, the child wouldn't get eaten. -- Nom=de=Plume Bull. We have had more deaths from mountain lions in the last 5 years, than in the previous 100 years. Sort of like Sea Lions. No reason to be a protected species. Overpopulated now, and dieing of starvation, etc. The deer herds are being decimated my lions, as well as the Big Horn sheep. When they were hunted, they were never in danger of being on the Endangerd species list, and they were controlled in numbers and kept away from man. ?? You're claiming that mountain lions are targeting kids? You're a fool. -- Nom=de=Plume You are the fool if you think otherwise. Do a little research on mountain lions in Calif. |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:35 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message news:dc39o5lmppc6p9tun8t0oreorr0s707bnn@4a x.com... On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:27 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Feb 23, 10:00 am, wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:47:35 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/...speed-zones-go... Looks like they're getting their own speed zone, now... They have had their own speed zones in Lee County for over a decade.http://myfwc.com/docs/WildlifeHabita...tee_leeMPZ.pdf Vast areas are slow speed, either all year or seasonal. The speed limit around the 10,000 islands was 20. Now it is slow speed. I assume that is all year. I figured that was in order. I'm wondering though at that slow of a speed wihen the battle wagons come though there, at such slow speed they plow deep. I supppose the next thing will be that prop guards will be made manditory. The ones that get prop scarred are the lucky ones. The ones that die are usually the ones who can't get deep enough to avoid the blunt force trauma of a keel hit or taking an outboard leg in the side. If you see a prop scar, it is usually an inboard. The more they looked at these things the more they figured out are around so the current thought is they should probably be de-listed if you used any rational logic in determining what should be protected but there has never been much logic in manatee or panther protection. Both are far from endangered if you use the ESA rules. In fact there is no such thing as the Florida Panther in the strict sense. They are hybrids, cross bred with Texas cats. When I told my wife about this she just asked "who is going to enforce this"? They better bring a helicopter if they are going to try to catch one of those Everglades City boys going through the mangroves. The manatees are listed as endangered by the ESA. There are thought to be fewer than 2000. Even if they weren't, why not protect them, since they can't outrun the boats or dive deep enough. Does it really threaten your "freedom" to slow down and look where you're going? (Not you specifically....) That is an old statistic. When they finally started counting them they found out there are several thousand in our little county alone. There is a move afoot to delist the manatee, based on the ESA rules. The real problem is that FPL has a power plant here that used to discharge a lot of warm water in the Caloosahatchee river and that attracted the manatee to that particular spot. That is also where most are killed, either right at the plant or coming and going from there. Unfortunately that river is also the only east west passage across Florida. It is like putting a salt lick in the middle of the I-5 and wondering why so many deer get run over. The real irony is when they converted that plant from bunker oil to natural gas they did not have as much waste heat so the greenie weenies sued to force FPL to artificially heat the water instead of allowing the manatees to migrate south like they are supposed to. A lot more manatee die each year from starvation and cold shock because of that than boat strikes. There is just not enough food around that plant to support that many manatee. It also does a real number on our fecal coliform counts, forcing the closure of a few beaches every winter. 1000 manatee is a 50 acre plot are basically like a sewer pipe discharging right into the water The other thing people do not accept is speed may not even be the biggest problem with boat collisions. Manatees are not smart enough to get out of the way, even if you are going slow and I have actually had them swim up behind my boat when I was running at idle/slow speed and put their nose right up to the prop.. They are attracted to the water discharge from the "pee hole" because people use their garden hose to bring manatee up to the dock for a drink of fresh water (or whatever attracts a manatee to a hose squirting in the water). I am all for protecting wildlife but most of this manatee problem is man made by the same people who think they are protecting them. The "manatee zones" are political compromises that are not actually based on much science. It simply gives the politicians political cover when people ask what they are doing. They can say we protected "x" thousand square miles of water for the manatee, whether that is where the manatee are or not. This 10,000 islands zone has not been protected that much up until now because for most of the winter, the water is too cold for a manatee. The same is true in most of Florida, except where we are creating hot spots. If we were really following the ESA we would not be discharging the hot water in the first place (the ESA says we are not supposed to interrupt their natural behavior). We certainly would not be artificially heating it. Unfortunately this policy is driven by people out in "flyover land" who have never seen a manatee, don't own a boat and know very little about either one of them. BTW how do you feel about mountain lions? What if someone called them the "California Panther" and said you could not disturb one that was eating your pets and chasing your kids? We have that going on here too. Again, it is mostly driven by people who don't live here. You sound like an environmentalist! Good for you. I don't care what they call them. People need to protect their pets and kids. It's not the mountain lion's fault. They're acting as they should, esp. given our intrusion into their natural habitat. -- Nom=de=Plume Yeah "Sorry, my 3 year old sweet little human child, but the poor cougar is doing what it's supposed to by dragging you off for lunch". Not much of an internal struggle for a parent: bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang Perhaps if the sweet little human child had parents who had an ounce of sense, the child wouldn't get eaten. -- Nom=de=Plume Bull. We have had more deaths from mountain lions in the last 5 years, than in the previous 100 years. Sort of like Sea Lions. No reason to be a protected species. Overpopulated now, and dieing of starvation, etc. The deer herds are being decimated my lions, as well as the Big Horn sheep. When they were hunted, they were never in danger of being on the Endangerd species list, and they were controlled in numbers and kept away from man. ?? You're claiming that mountain lions are targeting kids? You're a fool. -- Nom=de=Plume You are the fool if you think otherwise. Do a little research on mountain lions in Calif. Come on Bill, you should at least try and sound intelligent. MLs are not targeting kids. That's just looney even for you. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:17:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: Come on Bill, you should at least try and sound intelligent. MLs are not targeting kids. That's just looney even for you. Bill, it is pointless to discuss issues with someone who's mind is closed. |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
|
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:17:04 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Come on Bill, you should at least try and sound intelligent. MLs are not targeting kids. That's just looney even for you. Bill, it is pointless to discuss issues with someone who's mind is closed. Wow... did they go after your kids? If so, was it really bad indigestion? -- Nom=de=Plume |
Are manatee-crossing signs next?
wrote in message
... On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:19:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Perhaps if the sweet little human child had parents who had an ounce of sense, the child wouldn't get eaten. -- Nom=de=Plume Bull. We have had more deaths from mountain lions in the last 5 years, than in the previous 100 years. Sort of like Sea Lions. No reason to be a protected species. Overpopulated now, and dieing of starvation, etc. The deer herds are being decimated my lions, as well as the Big Horn sheep. When they were hunted, they were never in danger of being on the Endangerd species list, and they were controlled in numbers and kept away from man. ?? You're claiming that mountain lions are targeting kids? You're a fool. -- Cats, any cat, will kill anything they can catch and overpower. Sometime that is not even because they are hungry, just bored. A child just looks like a raccoon or a lamb to them. It is moving and it is small enough to kill. You folks have problems with them attacking a jogger now and then too. Yes, they will if given an opportunity and they're hungry. They mostly avoid humans, even joggers, but it's worth being cautious, esp. if you're not too big to begin with. As for Loogie's question, when they could claim the whole country as their territory, about the only thing that limited their population was the available food supply and the amount of territory each cat claimed. Behind cars, the biggest cause of death for our panthers is being killed by another panther. I suppose if everyone would move back east of the Sierras the cats could have California and fight it out until they had a stabile population. Unfortunately people do choose to live there, farm and raise livestock so they can't let nature take its normal path. I always think it is funny when city folks do get a bear or other big predator (even as small as a coyote) wandering through their neighborhood. Suddenly all of that "live and let live" stuff goes out the window and they want the predator gone. Dangerous wildlife is like wind turbines. Everyone likes them until they have one in their back yard. We see bear, coyote, and the occasional (rare) ML, among many other creatures. I don't really have a backyard in the sense of a fenced one. I have a big garden with very high fencing, but I figure whatever can get in there (e.g., rabbits) can eat what they want. The only real concern I have is for my cat, but it hasn't been a problem so far. Some people freak when deer eat their roses. I have no problem with it. I had a buck sitting under a tree for a 1/2 day a couple of years ago. It was kinda cool. He acted like he belonged, eyed the cat when approached, but that was about it. I walked within about 15 feet of him, and he didn't move or seem to care that much. I have a picture somewhere... I'll try and find it. -- Nom=de=Plume |
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