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7 things about the economy
Not for those who are unable to think for themselves....
No. 1: The middle class may never be the same again No. 2: The recovery could take a really long time No. 3: The recovery could only be temporary No. 4: Then what? This time, we don't have the tools to get out of a recession No. 5: The 'very serious' people in Washington are still obsessed about the deficit No. 6: Whatever is making the stock market go up could go away No. 7: The hugely irresponsible financial sector remains unchastened Read the whole article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_433688.html -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
On Jan 23, 12:54*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
Not for those who are unable to think for themselves.... No. 1: The middle class may never be the same again No. 2: The recovery could take a really long time No. 3: The recovery could only be temporary No. 4: Then what? This time, we don't have the tools to get out of a recession No. 5: The 'very serious' people in Washington are still obsessed about the deficit No. 6: Whatever is making the stock market go up could go away No. 7: The hugely irresponsible financial sector remains unchastened Read the whole article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...-the-econom_n_... -- Nom=de=Plume Huffington Post, who? OHHHHH, you mean the people who for some reason think it is scandalous that Scot Brown's girls wear bikinis. |
7 things about the economy
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Jan 23, 12:54 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Not for those who are unable to think for themselves.... No. 1: The middle class may never be the same again No. 2: The recovery could take a really long time No. 3: The recovery could only be temporary No. 4: Then what? This time, we don't have the tools to get out of a recession No. 5: The 'very serious' people in Washington are still obsessed about the deficit No. 6: Whatever is making the stock market go up could go away No. 7: The hugely irresponsible financial sector remains unchastened Read the whole article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...-the-econom_n_... -- Nom=de=Plume Huffington Post, who? OHHHHH, you mean the people who for some reason think it is scandalous that Scot Brown's girls wear bikinis. Obviously, you didn't read the article. If you had, you would have read about how Obama isn't doing the right thing in a few areas. Time to take your aluminum cap off and wake up. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:34:27 -0700, Canuck57
wrote: On 23/01/2010 4:35 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message Huffington Post, who? OHHHHH, you mean the people who for some reason think it is scandalous that Scot Brown's girls wear bikinis. Obviously, you didn't read the article. If you had, you would have read about how Obama isn't doing the right thing in a few areas. Time to take your aluminum cap off and wake up. Is that an understatement. You can't spend your way out of debt, even if you are a liberal-democrat debt monger. and the GOP tried to prove that you could they cut taxes on the rich while they didn't reduce spending. george bush was the biggest spender in US history For $2 trillion down the rabbit hole of bailouts, corruption and debt mongering, if obamanomics was worth a cold crap, you would see middle class results by now. meaningless characterization. the plan was developed by bernanke, head of the fed, while he was head of the fed under bush contrary to the moron's continuing assertions, the depression began in 2007, not on january 2009. and the 'free market' view of economics has collapsed. only the right whine believes it as a matter of faith. But all Americans have now is more debt. More debt means less wealth. and if we'd had 25% unemployment like we did in the last depression? Sad so many are going to get a harsh lesson in economics 101. The basic rule of becoming wealthy is simple for governemtns and people alike. Spend less than you have for income, ALWAYS. Or become a slave to debt. tell it to the socialist for the rich bush |
7 things about the economy
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:30:07 -0700, Canuck57
wrote: On 23/01/2010 1:54 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: Not for those who are unable to think for themselves.... No. 1: The middle class may never be the same again Agreed. No. 2: The recovery could take a really long time Agreed. Certainly a decade if not a generation. No. 3: The recovery could only be temporary The current market is oversold to fundimentals, I would agree a double dip is coming. No. 4: Then what? This time, we don't have the tools to get out of a recession Government are themselves bankupt. Read the three pigs fable. Liberal squandering during good times... ?? george bush was the biggest spender in history along with reagan neither was liberal moron knows zip about US history No. 5: The 'very serious' people in Washington are still obsessed about the deficit They know it will in due time criple the government itself. They can't tax us 110% - even a dumb**** liberal knows that. well they can try to destroy the middle class by taking ALL of our pensions (as they have) AND raiding our 401K's as they have done true right whiners No. 6: Whatever is making the stock market go up could go away Not likely, it is going up in part on inflation worries. Better to own 10,000 shares of GM than having $140,000 if depreciating cash in the bank. That is if there is a bank left. No. 7: The hugely irresponsible financial sector remains unchastened Rememebr it was government sponsored. Where was congress in all of this? Suckin back liberal-dim cudo's for cheap debt? anybody know what 'government sponsored' means? more babbling from the right wing moron. a term without definition |
7 things about the economy
"Canuck57" wrote in message
... On 23/01/2010 4:35 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... On Jan 23, 12:54 pm, wrote: Not for those who are unable to think for themselves.... No. 1: The middle class may never be the same again No. 2: The recovery could take a really long time No. 3: The recovery could only be temporary No. 4: Then what? This time, we don't have the tools to get out of a recession No. 5: The 'very serious' people in Washington are still obsessed about the deficit No. 6: Whatever is making the stock market go up could go away No. 7: The hugely irresponsible financial sector remains unchastened Read the whole article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...-the-econom_n_... -- Nom=de=Plume Huffington Post, who? OHHHHH, you mean the people who for some reason think it is scandalous that Scot Brown's girls wear bikinis. Obviously, you didn't read the article. If you had, you would have read about how Obama isn't doing the right thing in a few areas. Time to take your aluminum cap off and wake up. Is that an understatement. You can't spend your way out of debt, even if you are a liberal-democrat debt monger. For $2 trillion down the rabbit hole of bailouts, corruption and debt mongering, if obamanomics was worth a cold crap, you would see middle class results by now. But all Americans have now is more debt. More debt means less wealth. Sad so many are going to get a harsh lesson in economics 101. The basic rule of becoming wealthy is simple for governemtns and people alike. Spend less than you have for income, ALWAYS. Or become a slave to debt. So, you didn't read the article. Good for you! -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
wrote in message
... On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 12:54:51 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Not for those who are unable to think for themselves.... No. 1: The middle class may never be the same again No. 2: The recovery could take a really long time No. 3: The recovery could only be temporary No. 4: Then what? This time, we don't have the tools to get out of a recession No. 5: The 'very serious' people in Washington are still obsessed about the deficit No. 6: Whatever is making the stock market go up could go away No. 7: The hugely irresponsible financial sector remains unchastened Read the whole article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_433688.html There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace all the jobs that we have sent offshore. Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly agree with the rest of the statement. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
"Canuck57" wrote in message
... On 23/01/2010 1:54 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: Not for those who are unable to think for themselves.... No. 1: The middle class may never be the same again Agreed. No. 2: The recovery could take a really long time Agreed. Certainly a decade if not a generation. No. 3: The recovery could only be temporary The current market is oversold to fundimentals, I would agree a double dip is coming. No. 4: Then what? This time, we don't have the tools to get out of a recession Government are themselves bankupt. Read the three pigs fable. Liberal squandering during good times... No. 5: The 'very serious' people in Washington are still obsessed about the deficit They know it will in due time criple the government itself. They can't tax us 110% - even a dumb**** liberal knows that. No. 6: Whatever is making the stock market go up could go away Not likely, it is going up in part on inflation worries. Better to own 10,000 shares of GM than having $140,000 if depreciating cash in the bank. That is if there is a bank left. No. 7: The hugely irresponsible financial sector remains unchastened Rememebr it was government sponsored. Where was congress in all of this? Suckin back liberal-dim cudo's for cheap debt? Read the whole article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_433688.html The title could read: "A nation of liberal debt welchers and mongering has a few decades of lessons coming." Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. I know you have a short attention span, but before you comment further, you should at least try and read the article. I promise your computer won't explode if you visit a liberal site... -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
On Jan 24, 1:14*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message ... On 23/01/2010 1:54 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: Not for those who are unable to think for themselves.... No. 1: The middle class may never be the same again Agreed. No. 2: The recovery could take a really long time Agreed. *Certainly a decade if not a generation. No. 3: The recovery could only be temporary The current market is oversold to fundimentals, I would agree a double dip is coming. No. 4: Then what? This time, we don't have the tools to get out of a recession Government are themselves bankupt. *Read the three pigs fable. *Liberal squandering during good times... No. 5: The 'very serious' people in Washington are still obsessed about the deficit They know it will in due time criple the government itself. *They can't tax us 110% - even a dumb**** liberal knows that. No. 6: Whatever is making the stock market go up could go away Not likely, it is going up in part on inflation worries. *Better to own 10,000 shares of GM than having $140,000 if depreciating cash in the bank. That is if there is a bank left. No. 7: The hugely irresponsible financial sector remains unchastened Rememebr it was government sponsored. *Where was congress in all of this? Suckin back liberal-dim cudo's for cheap debt? Read the whole article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...-the-econom_n_.... The title could read: "A nation of liberal debt welchers and mongering has a few decades of lessons coming." Chinese are tightening their credit. *I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. *Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. I know you have a short attention span, but before you comment further, you should at least try and read the article. I promise your computer won't explode if you visit a liberal site... -- Nom=de=Plume But D'Plume, you have proven your head will. |
7 things about the economy
"Canuck57" wrote in message ... Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Eisboch |
7 things about the economy
On Jan 24, 3:02*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message ... Chinese are tightening their credit. *I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. *Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Eisboch They'll quit selling their products here. That'll show us. |
7 things about the economy
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "Canuck57" wrote in message ... Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Eisboch actually this was discussed in milton friedman's book. he thought it would be wonderful if other countries sent us cars, boats, food, etc. and we sent them paper. |
7 things about the economy
"Eisboch" wrote in message
... "Canuck57" wrote in message ... Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Eisboch Excellent question, actually. That's China's worst nightmare. With all the hysteria about our "debt," you have to remember that they're making a profit by us serving the debt. The last thing they want is for us to not make the payment. They'd be in much worse shape if we defaulted. They know this. They have no intention of cutting us off from the money supply, as long as make a good-faith effort to get our fiscal house in order. We're certainly working toward that now, as opposed to what the previous admininstration did. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
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7 things about the economy
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7 things about the economy
wrote in message
... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace all the jobs that we have sent offshore. Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly agree with the rest of the statement. I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus the new kids entering the market". Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We really have to start making things here again. Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US infrastructure after we are done in Haiti.. If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong. Some jobs won't be replaced. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
wrote in message
... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Short answer ... The dollar would be devalued and oil would cost more, among other things. And the Chinese economy would tank. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
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7 things about the economy
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, Eisboch wrote:
What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. It would be one hell of a crash, and 5-10 very rough years, but then... We'd have to get our own house in order, as no other country would want to finance our overspending ways. Personally, I don't think it would be all bad, but there are a lot easier ways to get our house in order. It would be playing with fire, and you never know how burned we would get. |
7 things about the economy
"Canuck57" wrote in message
... On 24/01/2010 3:57 PM, wrote: On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, wrote: Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Short answer ... The dollar would be devalued and oil would cost more, among other things. Good answer, hyper inflation due to currency devaluation. And I really think that is the liberal game plan. Has been for over 2 years as nothing else explains the mad-hatter direction of government other than pure insanity, which may be true all the same. Here goes my view on how government is thinking on this depression. Government does not sees the problem as people not having money, they see homes in a recession pricing. It makes it attractive for a family to toss the keys to the banks and walk. Growth is needed to hide losses and screw ups. Part of the plan is getting people to put all the money in seemingly safe places, T-bills, money market, cash places. At ultra low interest rates. Now lets say let the dollar fall by say 75% in a rapid period of time, too fast to move out of cash and sell t-bills etc. Just stop honoring debt, just like Iceland just did. Who knows, they could be the pilot group. So if one woke up and oil went from $80 barrel to $320 a barrel, the government just devlaued it's $12 trillion dollar debt by 75%, as people get wage increases in the inflation cycle, and money is stuck in low interest, the currency debt and fiscal debt becomes depreciated on the backs of people with money. It is why I am in pure cash (can buy gold/stock/real-esate etc) on a click. But will not touch a morgage mutual, t-bill or cd/gic with a 10 foot poll. I view lending right now as toxic. Even if it is lending to government. The only way I would lend to government is with an infation clause and 5% premium without taxation. Otherwie a brick of gold looks pretty good. Lets take a scenario, person A buys $1000 of oil, say 12.5 barrels of it. Person B buys a T-bill at a meaningless interest rate. Then the dollar plumets as debt isn't honored against the currency itself. Person A still has 12.5 barels of oil worth $4000. Person B has $1000.10 that now can only purchase 1/4 of what it did not too long ago. Value currency depreciation. More people will get jobs if it goes far enough as then US goods become cheap like Chinese ones. Hyper inflation as coffee goes from $10 a tine to $40, but government doesn't give a damn about retired and people, they are just to milk for statism. Wages will not keep up. How this addresses housing is simple. If a home is $200K to build today, but is selling for $180K, and has a $200K morgage, after inflation it changes to perhaps $500K to build and $400k to buy. No idiot will oss the keys for that sweet deal. To understand government policy, it becomes easy once you realize they are the biggest meanist delinquent dysfunctional debtors going. A debt monger mindset and plent of self denial. Time will tell, but in 2010 some time we should see a big move down in USD value. Big move actually. Probably in the later hald as the mini recovery bubble pops. If you think hyperinflation is coming, claiming that you've got all cash isn't exactly where you want to be. You should be complete in a precious metals, since you may not be able to "click" and get it done, as the SEC would shut down the exchange. Also, you'll need to have the gold or whatever in your possession to be safe. Oh, and you're not too bright... if that wasn't obvious. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
"thunder" wrote in message
t... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, Eisboch wrote: What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. It would be one hell of a crash, and 5-10 very rough years, but then... We'd have to get our own house in order, as no other country would want to finance our overspending ways. Personally, I don't think it would be all bad, but there are a lot easier ways to get our house in order. It would be playing with fire, and you never know how burned we would get. There would be other international consequences also. It would affect the totality of the world financial markets, and some countries would not recover for decades. This alone could prevent our recovery in the time-frame you mention. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
On Jan 24, 4:38*pm, I am Tosk wrote:
In article f59dda3b-def7-4970-a98a-c5314f862444 @h34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, says... On Jan 24, 3:02 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "Canuck57" wrote in message ... Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Eisboch They'll quit selling their products here. *That'll show us. I dare you to walk around your house and find 10 items you need to live life the way you do.. Then do an Internet search and see if you could have those items if the Chinese stopped making them or the parts for them... OK, you might be able to do it if you tried, but if everyone in the country was trying to buy a pair of socks from the last company in the US that made them (BTW I don't think anybody here does) we would run out pretty quickly. Scotty A huge part of the problem is the fact that we don't manufacture much stuff here. IMO, we need to start making stuff here again. Of course, we can't when unions think that unskilled labor assemblimg an outlet strip should earn $60k a year. And if we all bought socks from the last US company making them, they'd have a banner year, expand, and we'd have the socks we need and more jobs to boot. |
7 things about the economy
"Jack" wrote in message
... On Jan 24, 4:38 pm, I am Tosk wrote: In article f59dda3b-def7-4970-a98a-c5314f862444 @h34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, says... On Jan 24, 3:02 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "Canuck57" wrote in message ... Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Eisboch They'll quit selling their products here. That'll show us. I dare you to walk around your house and find 10 items you need to live life the way you do.. Then do an Internet search and see if you could have those items if the Chinese stopped making them or the parts for them... OK, you might be able to do it if you tried, but if everyone in the country was trying to buy a pair of socks from the last company in the US that made them (BTW I don't think anybody here does) we would run out pretty quickly. Scotty A huge part of the problem is the fact that we don't manufacture much stuff here. IMO, we need to start making stuff here again. Of I agree. course, we can't when unions think that unskilled labor assemblimg an outlet strip should earn $60k a year. What's wrong with them thinking that? Nothing. It's called what the market will bear. And if we all bought socks from the last US company making them, they'd have a banner year, expand, and we'd have the socks we need and more jobs to boot. Except that GM/Chrysler designed cars that nobody wanted. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
In article fff54e85-9427-4b39-9824-
, says... On Jan 24, 4:38*pm, I am Tosk wrote: In article f59dda3b-def7-4970-a98a-c5314f862444 @h34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, says... On Jan 24, 3:02 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "Canuck57" wrote in message ... Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Eisboch They'll quit selling their products here. *That'll show us. I dare you to walk around your house and find 10 items you need to live life the way you do.. Then do an Internet search and see if you could have those items if the Chinese stopped making them or the parts for them... OK, you might be able to do it if you tried, but if everyone in the country was trying to buy a pair of socks from the last company in the US that made them (BTW I don't think anybody here does) we would run out pretty quickly. Scotty A huge part of the problem is the fact that we don't manufacture much stuff here. IMO, we need to start making stuff here again. Of course, we can't when unions think that unskilled labor assemblimg an outlet strip should earn $60k a year. And if we all bought socks from the last US company making them, they'd have a banner year, expand, and we'd have the socks we need and more jobs to boot. They would never keep up with the demand. Did you know that there is a city in China that basically makes all the retail socks we buy here in America and most of the rest of the world. That's how manufacturing works over there, one city (group) one product.. The whole area is all about socks, millions and millions of socks. Or sock company wouldn't last a month without spare parts and new machines from China anyway... We would have no socks. No problem though, we wouldn't have any shoes either, pants, shirts, toasters, coffeemakers, coats, tin cans for food... They could wipe us out so we better keep paying them and keep ourselves valuable to them.. Scotty |
7 things about the economy
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7 things about the economy
On 24/01/2010 6:35 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message ... On 24/01/2010 3:57 PM, wrote: On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, wrote: Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Short answer ... The dollar would be devalued and oil would cost more, among other things. Good answer, hyper inflation due to currency devaluation. And I really think that is the liberal game plan. Has been for over 2 years as nothing else explains the mad-hatter direction of government other than pure insanity, which may be true all the same. Here goes my view on how government is thinking on this depression. Government does not sees the problem as people not having money, they see homes in a recession pricing. It makes it attractive for a family to toss the keys to the banks and walk. Growth is needed to hide losses and screw ups. Part of the plan is getting people to put all the money in seemingly safe places, T-bills, money market, cash places. At ultra low interest rates. Now lets say let the dollar fall by say 75% in a rapid period of time, too fast to move out of cash and sell t-bills etc. Just stop honoring debt, just like Iceland just did. Who knows, they could be the pilot group. So if one woke up and oil went from $80 barrel to $320 a barrel, the government just devlaued it's $12 trillion dollar debt by 75%, as people get wage increases in the inflation cycle, and money is stuck in low interest, the currency debt and fiscal debt becomes depreciated on the backs of people with money. It is why I am in pure cash (can buy gold/stock/real-esate etc) on a click. But will not touch a morgage mutual, t-bill or cd/gic with a 10 foot poll. I view lending right now as toxic. Even if it is lending to government. The only way I would lend to government is with an infation clause and 5% premium without taxation. Otherwie a brick of gold looks pretty good. Lets take a scenario, person A buys $1000 of oil, say 12.5 barrels of it. Person B buys a T-bill at a meaningless interest rate. Then the dollar plumets as debt isn't honored against the currency itself. Person A still has 12.5 barels of oil worth $4000. Person B has $1000.10 that now can only purchase 1/4 of what it did not too long ago. Value currency depreciation. More people will get jobs if it goes far enough as then US goods become cheap like Chinese ones. Hyper inflation as coffee goes from $10 a tine to $40, but government doesn't give a damn about retired and people, they are just to milk for statism. Wages will not keep up. How this addresses housing is simple. If a home is $200K to build today, but is selling for $180K, and has a $200K morgage, after inflation it changes to perhaps $500K to build and $400k to buy. No idiot will oss the keys for that sweet deal. To understand government policy, it becomes easy once you realize they are the biggest meanist delinquent dysfunctional debtors going. A debt monger mindset and plent of self denial. Time will tell, but in 2010 some time we should see a big move down in USD value. Big move actually. Probably in the later hald as the mini recovery bubble pops. If you think hyperinflation is coming, claiming that you've got all cash isn't exactly where you want to be. You should be complete in a precious metals, since you may not be able to "click" and get it done, as the SEC would shut down the exchange. Also, you'll need to have the gold or whatever in your possession to be safe. Oh, and you're not too bright... if that wasn't obvious. To you, not obvious. My generalization about cash is I am not going to CD/GIC or loan it as a cash instrument, not even a money market and certainly not bonds or some silly morgage mutual. I don't "invest in cash" isn't the same as wanting some short term liquidity for opportunities and portfolio rebalancing. I have my reasons including if Obama drives the Dow to 8000 or lower it might be a minor repeat of last year....and like last year have opportunistic cash for the average in on the dip, its Obama's move. LOL. Or perhaps buy some gold. Just that China credit tightening and Japan banking with Obama chest pounding sounds like trouble. I don't think the US SEC can shut down a Canadian exchange. Have another drink. |
7 things about the economy
On 24/01/2010 5:20 PM, thunder wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, Eisboch wrote: What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. It would be one hell of a crash, and 5-10 very rough years, but then... We'd have to get our own house in order, as no other country would want to finance our overspending ways. Personally, I don't think it would be all bad, but there are a lot easier ways to get our house in order. It would be playing with fire, and you never know how burned we would get. Iceland, Brazil, Zimbabwe, Venzuela, Argentina, Germany pre WW II all have some history on this. Generally not good for the standard of living which drops signifigantly. How far it drops depends a lot on the size of the default. $2 trillion ot the Chinese, you will notice it big time. Especially if the Saudis want Euros for USDs on the value drop -- could happen very fast. Get the Japanese banks to drop in the middle being a major holder of US debt... all hell could break loose when the germany banks fall. Just waiting for the music to stop. |
7 things about the economy
On 24/01/2010 6:37 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message t... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, Eisboch wrote: What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. It would be one hell of a crash, and 5-10 very rough years, but then... We'd have to get our own house in order, as no other country would want to finance our overspending ways. Personally, I don't think it would be all bad, but there are a lot easier ways to get our house in order. It would be playing with fire, and you never know how burned we would get. There would be other international consequences also. It would affect the totality of the world financial markets, and some countries would not recover for decades. This alone could prevent our recovery in the time-frame you mention. Yep. Like the cold war, MAD if someone moves wrong. Chinese want the value of the USDs they have, but if they flood the market and crash the USD too quick.... Look at the cost of a barrel of oil as how well the USD is doing. If oil goes up, the USD lost value. If the barrel goes down in cost, the USD is strong. Look at the barrel of oil as a unit of constant value currency. A one barrel note if you will. Todays exchange rate is $74.60 USD == $1 OIL barrel note. Hard for some to do. That way you can gauge the currency inflation effects more accurately. Like the theory of relativity, is the dollar going up or the cost of oil coming down? Both are true depending where you stand. |
7 things about the economy
wrote in message
... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:57:49 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace all the jobs that we have sent offshore. Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly agree with the rest of the statement. I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus the new kids entering the market". Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We really have to start making things here again. Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US infrastructure after we are done in Haiti.. If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong. Some jobs won't be replaced. I agree a lot of auto workers are not going to be making cars but they could be making other things. I believe wind energy is a boondoggle but if people are willing to do it, it is not a bad place for factory workers to work. There are plenty of things we need in the infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it. What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll require some investment... -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
"I am Tosk" wrote in message
... In article , says... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:57:49 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message .. . On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:13:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: There will be no meaningful recovery until we find a way to replace all the jobs that we have sent offshore. Not sure I agree with the "replace all" comment, but I do certainly agree with the rest of the statement. I am not sure why you disagree with "all" unless you mean "all plus the new kids entering the market". Our economy has been based on the middle class having good jobs. We really have to start making things here again. Maybe we should have a telethon to collect money to rebuild the US infrastructure after we are done in Haiti.. If you use a term such as "all" or "every" it's almost always wrong. Some jobs won't be replaced. I agree a lot of auto workers are not going to be making cars but they could be making other things. I believe wind energy is a boondoggle but if people are willing to do it, it is not a bad place for factory workers to work. There are plenty of things we need in the infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it. The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to address the things that are killing the manufacturing base. Old instructor told me long ago, don't bother with the bee, go for the stinger... Scotty, we need to go for the stinger. The roads and bridges are dandy, until they collapse. Infrastructure is one of the things we really need to work on in this country. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
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... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk wrote: There are plenty of things we need in the infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it. The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to address the things that are killing the manufacturing base. When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators. There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer systems and water distribution that need work. We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen. I don't think Tosk quite gets that. All environmentalists are against it or just a few? All is a tricky word. You might want to try and avoid using it. In this case "the" seems to be the poor substitute. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
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... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:35:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: course, we can't when unions think that unskilled labor assemblimg an outlet strip should earn $60k a year. What's wrong with them thinking that? Nothing. It's called what the market will bear. The market has already spoken. We go to walmart and buy something from china because it is cheaper. And if we all bought socks from the last US company making them, they'd have a banner year, expand, and we'd have the socks we need and more jobs to boot. Except that GM/Chrysler designed cars that nobody wanted. I hear that a lot but they sold the hell out of their trucks. That was the cash cow at all of the US manufacturers. The Ford F150 is still one of the top 3 vehicles in the US, down from #1. I will agree the assembly of a lot of these cars is crap (squeaks rattles etc) ... but that brings us back to that $60,000 guy doesn't it? I suppose it does, but I don't know what Wal-mart has to do with the auto industry. There are plenty of foreign cars that are affordable and darn nice. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
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... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:58:37 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Short answer ... The dollar would be devalued and oil would cost more, among other things. And the Chinese economy would tank. The Chinese are actually in a better position to take the hit than we were. They are really only a generation away from the 18th century way of doing things in large parts of the country. If their economy crashes it will disappoint a lot of people who thought they were moving up but they won't starve. My fear is they are a culture with a thousand year plan. They might be willing to take those lumps to defeat us. It is certainly cheaper for them than the thermonuclear war we had held over our heads for most of the second half of the 20th century. Nope.. much worse. They're basically still a third-world country. People would starve and die. You're right about the culture thing though. The leaders don't care if millions die. They already proved that in the Cultural Rev. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
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... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 17:35:33 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: If you think hyperinflation is coming, claiming that you've got all cash isn't exactly where you want to be. You should be complete in a precious metals, since you may not be able to "click" and get it done, as the SEC would shut down the exchange. Also, you'll need to have the gold or whatever in your possession to be safe. Oh, and you're not too bright... if that wasn't obvious. Silver coins is a good hedge. You might give someone a quarter for a loaf of bread but it is hard to make change for a Krugerrand. I have some but I wish I had bought a drywall bucket full when they were 4-5x face. It's a "crunch" mentality to hoard pieces of metal. Some is fine, but I sure as heck don't want to lug it around. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
"Canuck57" wrote in message
... On 24/01/2010 6:35 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... On 24/01/2010 3:57 PM, wrote: On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, wrote: Chinese are tightening their credit. I thinks Obama's problems just got worse. Especially if China wants some of that maturing US debt paid off. What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. Short answer ... The dollar would be devalued and oil would cost more, among other things. Good answer, hyper inflation due to currency devaluation. And I really think that is the liberal game plan. Has been for over 2 years as nothing else explains the mad-hatter direction of government other than pure insanity, which may be true all the same. Here goes my view on how government is thinking on this depression. Government does not sees the problem as people not having money, they see homes in a recession pricing. It makes it attractive for a family to toss the keys to the banks and walk. Growth is needed to hide losses and screw ups. Part of the plan is getting people to put all the money in seemingly safe places, T-bills, money market, cash places. At ultra low interest rates. Now lets say let the dollar fall by say 75% in a rapid period of time, too fast to move out of cash and sell t-bills etc. Just stop honoring debt, just like Iceland just did. Who knows, they could be the pilot group. So if one woke up and oil went from $80 barrel to $320 a barrel, the government just devlaued it's $12 trillion dollar debt by 75%, as people get wage increases in the inflation cycle, and money is stuck in low interest, the currency debt and fiscal debt becomes depreciated on the backs of people with money. It is why I am in pure cash (can buy gold/stock/real-esate etc) on a click. But will not touch a morgage mutual, t-bill or cd/gic with a 10 foot poll. I view lending right now as toxic. Even if it is lending to government. The only way I would lend to government is with an infation clause and 5% premium without taxation. Otherwie a brick of gold looks pretty good. Lets take a scenario, person A buys $1000 of oil, say 12.5 barrels of it. Person B buys a T-bill at a meaningless interest rate. Then the dollar plumets as debt isn't honored against the currency itself. Person A still has 12.5 barels of oil worth $4000. Person B has $1000.10 that now can only purchase 1/4 of what it did not too long ago. Value currency depreciation. More people will get jobs if it goes far enough as then US goods become cheap like Chinese ones. Hyper inflation as coffee goes from $10 a tine to $40, but government doesn't give a damn about retired and people, they are just to milk for statism. Wages will not keep up. How this addresses housing is simple. If a home is $200K to build today, but is selling for $180K, and has a $200K morgage, after inflation it changes to perhaps $500K to build and $400k to buy. No idiot will oss the keys for that sweet deal. To understand government policy, it becomes easy once you realize they are the biggest meanist delinquent dysfunctional debtors going. A debt monger mindset and plent of self denial. Time will tell, but in 2010 some time we should see a big move down in USD value. Big move actually. Probably in the later hald as the mini recovery bubble pops. If you think hyperinflation is coming, claiming that you've got all cash isn't exactly where you want to be. You should be complete in a precious metals, since you may not be able to "click" and get it done, as the SEC would shut down the exchange. Also, you'll need to have the gold or whatever in your possession to be safe. Oh, and you're not too bright... if that wasn't obvious. To you, not obvious. My generalization about cash is I am not going to CD/GIC or loan it as a cash instrument, not even a money market and certainly not bonds or some silly morgage mutual. I don't "invest in cash" isn't the same as wanting some short term liquidity for opportunities and portfolio rebalancing. I have my reasons including if Obama drives the Dow to 8000 or lower it might be a minor repeat of last year....and like last year have opportunistic cash for the average in on the dip, its Obama's move. LOL. Or perhaps buy some gold. Just that China credit tightening and Japan banking with Obama chest pounding sounds like trouble. I don't think the US SEC can shut down a Canadian exchange. Have another drink. I definitely think you should put all your money in gold. Also, buy some land in a remote place and live there. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
"Canuck57" wrote in message
... On 24/01/2010 5:20 PM, thunder wrote: On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:02:26 -0500, Eisboch wrote: What happens if the USA just says, "No"? Just curious. It would be one hell of a crash, and 5-10 very rough years, but then... We'd have to get our own house in order, as no other country would want to finance our overspending ways. Personally, I don't think it would be all bad, but there are a lot easier ways to get our house in order. It would be playing with fire, and you never know how burned we would get. Iceland, Brazil, Zimbabwe, Venzuela, Argentina, Germany pre WW II all have some history on this. Generally not good for the standard of living which drops signifigantly. How far it drops depends a lot on the size of the default. $2 trillion ot the Chinese, you will notice it big time. Especially if the Saudis want Euros for USDs on the value drop -- could happen very fast. Get the Japanese banks to drop in the middle being a major holder of US debt... all hell could break loose when the germany banks fall. Just waiting for the music to stop. Please keep waiting (can you do this quietly?) Get back to us when the sky starts falling. -- Nom=de=Plume |
7 things about the economy
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7 things about the economy
wrote in message ... On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:56:47 -0500, I am Tosk wrote: There are plenty of things we need in the infrastructure area. We just need to talk people into paying for it. The roads and bridges are fine, and the dollar for dollar return in products is not as good when spent on highway maintenance as it would be in a decent sock factory. It's not the infrastructure that is holding back our manufacturing. It's the Un..... well, either way, we need to address the things that are killing the manufacturing base. When you start building roads and bridges you also crank up the heavy equipment factories, the cement plants and the steel fabricators. There are also other infrastructure items like our failing sewer systems and water distribution that need work. We would put a lot of people to work if this wind generation scheme caught hold but the environmentalists will never let it happen. I just don't get it. Government spending on infrastructure may create some jobs in certain industries, but it needs to be paid for by tax revenues from somewhere. Tax revenues come mostly from income taxes on employed people..... 45 percent, I think. Point is, there has to be more private industry jobs hiring people who pay taxes than just those working on infrastructure improvements to pay for it. Otherwise, the US just continues to borrow money to create a few jobs. Eisboch |
7 things about the economy
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... What's wrong with wind turbines? They seem to work... of course, it'll require some investment... One problem is that they are notoriously over-rated in terms of their output capacity. Another big problem is environmentalists. Another big oops is that the optimum areas that large scale wind turbine generating plants would be located are typically remote with no existing way to get the power to the grid. The cost of getting the power to the grid can be enormous and full of additional environmental impacts and/or objections. Eisboch |
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