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Do we need more of this?
"Harry" wrote in message m... Gene wrote: On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:52:16 -0500, Harry wrote: Bill McKee wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:25:57 -0500, Gene wrote: On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:07:49 -0800, jps wrote: I think not. Why do we let manufacturers flood the market with cheap weapons? DECATUR, Ga. -- A 4-year-old boy who was struck by a stray bullet while at church died Friday. The incident happened around midnight Friday during a New Year's Eve watch service at the Covington Drive Church Of God of Prophecy in Decatur. It was not immediately clear who fired the shot that came through the roof of the church and struck the child, who was identified as Marquel Peters. "It's hard. He was my only child. He was only 4. He was a smart little boy, he was so sweet," said his mother, Nathalee Peters. She said Friday night that she still can't believe it happened. "I heard a little sound like a 'pink.' I heard him scream a little bit, so I looked around to hand him the game and that's when I saw the blood," she said. "I tried to pick him up and then, he was losing consciousness and he was just breaking and going down. It was so hard." DeKalb County police said they thought at first that debris from the roof fell and hit Marquel. But the medical examiner found the bullet in the boy's head when he performed the autopsy. Nathalee Peters wants the person who fired the gun to turn himself in. "I want to say to the person responsible for this please come forward or whoever out there know something about who did this to my son, please come forward and say something. We need justice," she said. What sort of weapon was responsible for this? What did it cost.... Why do you make such a connection? The vast availability of weapons, especially cheap ones, has flooded the market with availability. It sets the bar for being armed. One weapon doesn't make a differents. Millions do. It surprises me you've taken such a short view but it seems your normal powers of logic get stymied when it comes to religious arguments. I have not seen cheap guns in years. Go to a gun show in Virginia. Plenty of working firearms for sale for $100 or less, and you can find individuals who will sell you one without bothering with the federal instant check. I'm gonna have to check that out! It's the gun show loophole. Plenty of unlicensed dealers roaming around who legally will sell you about anything you want, and many will not push even for ID. It's been documented many times. They can sell you one at their house, your house, anywhere. At least in some states, sales between two individuals are not regulated. Nevada for one. California not. |
Do we need more of this?
"Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "Harry" wrote in message m... Gene wrote: On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:52:16 -0500, Harry wrote: Bill McKee wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:25:57 -0500, Gene wrote: On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:07:49 -0800, jps wrote: I think not. Why do we let manufacturers flood the market with cheap weapons? DECATUR, Ga. -- A 4-year-old boy who was struck by a stray bullet while at church died Friday. The incident happened around midnight Friday during a New Year's Eve watch service at the Covington Drive Church Of God of Prophecy in Decatur. It was not immediately clear who fired the shot that came through the roof of the church and struck the child, who was identified as Marquel Peters. "It's hard. He was my only child. He was only 4. He was a smart little boy, he was so sweet," said his mother, Nathalee Peters. She said Friday night that she still can't believe it happened. "I heard a little sound like a 'pink.' I heard him scream a little bit, so I looked around to hand him the game and that's when I saw the blood," she said. "I tried to pick him up and then, he was losing consciousness and he was just breaking and going down. It was so hard." DeKalb County police said they thought at first that debris from the roof fell and hit Marquel. But the medical examiner found the bullet in the boy's head when he performed the autopsy. Nathalee Peters wants the person who fired the gun to turn himself in. "I want to say to the person responsible for this please come forward or whoever out there know something about who did this to my son, please come forward and say something. We need justice," she said. What sort of weapon was responsible for this? What did it cost.... Why do you make such a connection? The vast availability of weapons, especially cheap ones, has flooded the market with availability. It sets the bar for being armed. One weapon doesn't make a differents. Millions do. It surprises me you've taken such a short view but it seems your normal powers of logic get stymied when it comes to religious arguments. I have not seen cheap guns in years. Go to a gun show in Virginia. Plenty of working firearms for sale for $100 or less, and you can find individuals who will sell you one without bothering with the federal instant check. I'm gonna have to check that out! It's the gun show loophole. Plenty of unlicensed dealers roaming around who legally will sell you about anything you want, and many will not push even for ID. It's been documented many times. They can sell you one at their house, your house, anywhere. At least in some states, sales between two individuals are not regulated. Nevada for one. California not. Comments from a Nevada resident: Yes, SOME Nevada laws are lax. However, the database is good. So, if you do buy a gun, you are SUPPOSED to go with the seller and fill out the paperwork to transfer registration into your name. If the seller will not or cannot do this, you can fill out another paper stating where you got it, circumstances, etc, when you do go register it. This is supposedly so that if the gun is stolen, it will be easier to trace. If the gun you are trying to register is bad, you will know instantly, it will be impounded, and you will have several hours to explain yourself. If you ever have a gun come up during a "situation", they will bounce the number off the system, and if it is a bad gun you bought on a kitchen table deal, you just bought a lot of trouble, i.e. possession of a stolen firearm, possession of a weapon used in a felony, and others. Nevada has castle laws regarding weapons carried in cars, and owners can carry unregistered firearms in cars. But upon a traffic stop, the officer has the right to inspect the gun and run the number. That is, if you've told him about it. If you haven't, you are flirting with carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, depending on the officers' PMS level at the time. They are particularly ****y about finding a gun in a car when they specifically ask you if one is there and you say no. I bought guns at gun shows, and had to wait a week, then pick it up at a licensed gun shop in Nevada. But that just has to do with LEGAL guns and transactions. I believe what I said above to be the facts, but they might not be acceptable enough for the anal in the group. So, the best way to do it is to go to the PD and ask. That is, unless you're one of the types that's gonna do it your way. Steve |
Do we need more of this?
On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 11:00:06 -0500, Harry
wrote: Steve B wrote: "Gene" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 19:03:59 -0800, jps wrote: The vast availability of weapons, especially cheap ones, has flooded the market with availability. Simply not true..... You have to consider the source of that statement. jps is "challenged". Steve Are you seriously disputing the indisputable fact that there are kazillions of firearms available for under $100? Logic isn't Steve's strong suit. |
Do we need more of this?
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Do we need more of this?
"BAR" wrote in message .. . In article , says... Subject: Do we need more of this? From: thunder Newsgroups: rec.boats On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 07:08:07 -0500, Harry wrote: Watching *you* face down a Sov T-55 main battle tank with your choice of light arms would be a pay TV event I'd pay up to $2.00 American to watch. Maybe your seeeeeeester could sue the tank, eh? IIRC, there was a Chinese man at Tiananmen Square who faced them down with nothing but a smile. Where is that man now? Stardust. |
Do we need more of this?
Gene wrote:
On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:52:52 -0500, Harry wrote: Gene wrote: On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:52:16 -0500, Harry wrote: Bill McKee wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:25:57 -0500, Gene wrote: On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:07:49 -0800, jps wrote: I think not. Why do we let manufacturers flood the market with cheap weapons? DECATUR, Ga. -- A 4-year-old boy who was struck by a stray bullet while at church died Friday. The incident happened around midnight Friday during a New Year's Eve watch service at the Covington Drive Church Of God of Prophecy in Decatur. It was not immediately clear who fired the shot that came through the roof of the church and struck the child, who was identified as Marquel Peters. "It's hard. He was my only child. He was only 4. He was a smart little boy, he was so sweet," said his mother, Nathalee Peters. She said Friday night that she still can't believe it happened. "I heard a little sound like a 'pink.' I heard him scream a little bit, so I looked around to hand him the game and that's when I saw the blood," she said. "I tried to pick him up and then, he was losing consciousness and he was just breaking and going down. It was so hard." DeKalb County police said they thought at first that debris from the roof fell and hit Marquel. But the medical examiner found the bullet in the boy's head when he performed the autopsy. Nathalee Peters wants the person who fired the gun to turn himself in. "I want to say to the person responsible for this please come forward or whoever out there know something about who did this to my son, please come forward and say something. We need justice," she said. What sort of weapon was responsible for this? What did it cost.... Why do you make such a connection? The vast availability of weapons, especially cheap ones, has flooded the market with availability. It sets the bar for being armed. One weapon doesn't make a differents. Millions do. It surprises me you've taken such a short view but it seems your normal powers of logic get stymied when it comes to religious arguments. I have not seen cheap guns in years. Go to a gun show in Virginia. Plenty of working firearms for sale for $100 or less, and you can find individuals who will sell you one without bothering with the federal instant check. I'm gonna have to check that out! It's the gun show loophole. Plenty of unlicensed dealers roaming around who legally will sell you about anything you want, and many will not push even for ID. It's been documented many times. OK.... I've done some checking and found that this is just BS. First of all, dealers have to be Federally licensed. Period. If somebody is making something other than occasional sales of a firearm, they are guilty of a felony(ies). Private sales must be, by law, intrastate or a FFL dealer must be involved. The "Gun Show Loophole" is a weasel term created by a group of folks (probably the "Violence Policy Center") rabidly against guns. The only folks dealing guns without a license at gun shows are private gun owners and they are the only ones that have that option. There is no "loophole" nor has there ever been one. Virginia now requires that a state trooper be available at all gun shows to run background checks. His services are, however, voluntary. I might also reiterate that the term "unlicensed dealer" is nonsense.... My son is a law enforcement officer in Virginia and we discussed this at supper, tonight. He saw no more illegal guns in Virginia than NC, where pistol permits are required. He added that all Virginia sales of handguns through dealers are permitted and the permit is granted through the state's database. If you are trying a no-no and get creative filling out the paperwork, then you get a trip uptown and are charged with a *minimum* of two felonies and one misdemeanor.... more likely a minimum of three felonies. Bear in mind, this is a guy standing there waiting for the FFL dealer to hand him his gun and all he gets is carried out of the store in handcuffs. Finally, let's look at the scope of the "problem." The BJS filed a report "Firearms Use by Offenders" that found only 0.8%, that's 8 out of 1000.... inmates procured their weapon at a gun show. I'm guessing this "loophole" crap is a red herring.... Whoosh. It's the unlicensed guys selling guns out of the trunks of their cars we're discussing here, Gene. |
Do we need more of this?
"Gene" wrote in message ... On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:52:52 -0500, Harry wrote: Gene wrote: On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:52:16 -0500, Harry wrote: Bill McKee wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:25:57 -0500, Gene wrote: On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:07:49 -0800, jps wrote: I think not. Why do we let manufacturers flood the market with cheap weapons? DECATUR, Ga. -- A 4-year-old boy who was struck by a stray bullet while at church died Friday. The incident happened around midnight Friday during a New Year's Eve watch service at the Covington Drive Church Of God of Prophecy in Decatur. It was not immediately clear who fired the shot that came through the roof of the church and struck the child, who was identified as Marquel Peters. "It's hard. He was my only child. He was only 4. He was a smart little boy, he was so sweet," said his mother, Nathalee Peters. She said Friday night that she still can't believe it happened. "I heard a little sound like a 'pink.' I heard him scream a little bit, so I looked around to hand him the game and that's when I saw the blood," she said. "I tried to pick him up and then, he was losing consciousness and he was just breaking and going down. It was so hard." DeKalb County police said they thought at first that debris from the roof fell and hit Marquel. But the medical examiner found the bullet in the boy's head when he performed the autopsy. Nathalee Peters wants the person who fired the gun to turn himself in. "I want to say to the person responsible for this please come forward or whoever out there know something about who did this to my son, please come forward and say something. We need justice," she said. What sort of weapon was responsible for this? What did it cost.... Why do you make such a connection? The vast availability of weapons, especially cheap ones, has flooded the market with availability. It sets the bar for being armed. One weapon doesn't make a differents. Millions do. It surprises me you've taken such a short view but it seems your normal powers of logic get stymied when it comes to religious arguments. I have not seen cheap guns in years. Go to a gun show in Virginia. Plenty of working firearms for sale for $100 or less, and you can find individuals who will sell you one without bothering with the federal instant check. I'm gonna have to check that out! It's the gun show loophole. Plenty of unlicensed dealers roaming around who legally will sell you about anything you want, and many will not push even for ID. It's been documented many times. OK.... I've done some checking and found that this is just BS. First of all, dealers have to be Federally licensed. Period. If somebody is making something other than occasional sales of a firearm, they are guilty of a felony(ies). Private sales must be, by law, intrastate or a FFL dealer must be involved. The "Gun Show Loophole" is a weasel term created by a group of folks (probably the "Violence Policy Center") rabidly against guns. The only folks dealing guns without a license at gun shows are private gun owners and they are the only ones that have that option. There is no "loophole" nor has there ever been one. Virginia now requires that a state trooper be available at all gun shows to run background checks. His services are, however, voluntary. I might also reiterate that the term "unlicensed dealer" is nonsense.... My son is a law enforcement officer in Virginia and we discussed this at supper, tonight. He saw no more illegal guns in Virginia than NC, where pistol permits are required. He added that all Virginia sales of handguns through dealers are permitted and the permit is granted through the state's database. If you are trying a no-no and get creative filling out the paperwork, then you get a trip uptown and are charged with a *minimum* of two felonies and one misdemeanor.... more likely a minimum of three felonies. Bear in mind, this is a guy standing there waiting for the FFL dealer to hand him his gun and all he gets is carried out of the store in handcuffs. Finally, let's look at the scope of the "problem." The BJS filed a report "Firearms Use by Offenders" that found only 0.8%, that's 8 out of 1000.... inmates procured their weapon at a gun show. I'm guessing this "loophole" crap is a red herring.... -- It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 You must first define the parameters. Legal versus illegal. In the legal category, all the things you mentioned come into play. In the illegal category, it's all done by a coin flip. Lots of things are done at gun shows that shouldn't be. Lots of things are done on street corners that shouldn't be. People on both corners know where the lines are, know how to tap-dance in between the lines, and know when they are clearly outside the lines. Anyone who tries to set guidelines that will be followed judiciously by all is exercising their idiocy and lack of knowledge of the human specie. Or just a Pollyanna Utopian liberal. ymmv. Steve |
Do we need more of this?
Harry wrote:
Gene wrote: On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:52:52 -0500, Harry wrote: Gene wrote: On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:52:16 -0500, Harry wrote: Bill McKee wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:25:57 -0500, Gene wrote: On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:07:49 -0800, jps wrote: I think not. Why do we let manufacturers flood the market with cheap weapons? DECATUR, Ga. -- A 4-year-old boy who was struck by a stray bullet while at church died Friday. The incident happened around midnight Friday during a New Year's Eve watch service at the Covington Drive Church Of God of Prophecy in Decatur. It was not immediately clear who fired the shot that came through the roof of the church and struck the child, who was identified as Marquel Peters. "It's hard. He was my only child. He was only 4. He was a smart little boy, he was so sweet," said his mother, Nathalee Peters. She said Friday night that she still can't believe it happened. "I heard a little sound like a 'pink.' I heard him scream a little bit, so I looked around to hand him the game and that's when I saw the blood," she said. "I tried to pick him up and then, he was losing consciousness and he was just breaking and going down. It was so hard." DeKalb County police said they thought at first that debris from the roof fell and hit Marquel. But the medical examiner found the bullet in the boy's head when he performed the autopsy. Nathalee Peters wants the person who fired the gun to turn himself in. "I want to say to the person responsible for this please come forward or whoever out there know something about who did this to my son, please come forward and say something. We need justice," she said. What sort of weapon was responsible for this? What did it cost.... Why do you make such a connection? The vast availability of weapons, especially cheap ones, has flooded the market with availability. It sets the bar for being armed. One weapon doesn't make a differents. Millions do. It surprises me you've taken such a short view but it seems your normal powers of logic get stymied when it comes to religious arguments. I have not seen cheap guns in years. Go to a gun show in Virginia. Plenty of working firearms for sale for $100 or less, and you can find individuals who will sell you one without bothering with the federal instant check. I'm gonna have to check that out! It's the gun show loophole. Plenty of unlicensed dealers roaming around who legally will sell you about anything you want, and many will not push even for ID. It's been documented many times. OK.... I've done some checking and found that this is just BS. First of all, dealers have to be Federally licensed. Period. If somebody is making something other than occasional sales of a firearm, they are guilty of a felony(ies). Private sales must be, by law, intrastate or a FFL dealer must be involved. The "Gun Show Loophole" is a weasel term created by a group of folks (probably the "Violence Policy Center") rabidly against guns. The only folks dealing guns without a license at gun shows are private gun owners and they are the only ones that have that option. There is no "loophole" nor has there ever been one. Virginia now requires that a state trooper be available at all gun shows to run background checks. His services are, however, voluntary. I might also reiterate that the term "unlicensed dealer" is nonsense.... My son is a law enforcement officer in Virginia and we discussed this at supper, tonight. He saw no more illegal guns in Virginia than NC, where pistol permits are required. He added that all Virginia sales of handguns through dealers are permitted and the permit is granted through the state's database. If you are trying a no-no and get creative filling out the paperwork, then you get a trip uptown and are charged with a *minimum* of two felonies and one misdemeanor.... more likely a minimum of three felonies. Bear in mind, this is a guy standing there waiting for the FFL dealer to hand him his gun and all he gets is carried out of the store in handcuffs. Finally, let's look at the scope of the "problem." The BJS filed a report "Firearms Use by Offenders" that found only 0.8%, that's 8 out of 1000.... inmates procured their weapon at a gun show. I'm guessing this "loophole" crap is a red herring.... Whoosh. It's the unlicensed guys selling guns out of the trunks of their cars we're discussing here, Gene. Yup the guys that rob guys like you to get the guns to sell out of their cars. Keep advertising your gun stash and you will be the victim soon enough. |
Do we need more of this?
Gene wrote:
On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 21:31:27 -0500, Harry wrote: Gene wrote: On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:52:52 -0500, Harry wrote: Gene wrote: On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:52:16 -0500, Harry wrote: Bill McKee wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:25:57 -0500, Gene wrote: On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:07:49 -0800, jps wrote: I think not. Why do we let manufacturers flood the market with cheap weapons? DECATUR, Ga. -- A 4-year-old boy who was struck by a stray bullet while at church died Friday. The incident happened around midnight Friday during a New Year's Eve watch service at the Covington Drive Church Of God of Prophecy in Decatur. It was not immediately clear who fired the shot that came through the roof of the church and struck the child, who was identified as Marquel Peters. "It's hard. He was my only child. He was only 4. He was a smart little boy, he was so sweet," said his mother, Nathalee Peters. She said Friday night that she still can't believe it happened. "I heard a little sound like a 'pink.' I heard him scream a little bit, so I looked around to hand him the game and that's when I saw the blood," she said. "I tried to pick him up and then, he was losing consciousness and he was just breaking and going down. It was so hard." DeKalb County police said they thought at first that debris from the roof fell and hit Marquel. But the medical examiner found the bullet in the boy's head when he performed the autopsy. Nathalee Peters wants the person who fired the gun to turn himself in. "I want to say to the person responsible for this please come forward or whoever out there know something about who did this to my son, please come forward and say something. We need justice," she said. What sort of weapon was responsible for this? What did it cost.... Why do you make such a connection? The vast availability of weapons, especially cheap ones, has flooded the market with availability. It sets the bar for being armed. One weapon doesn't make a differents. Millions do. It surprises me you've taken such a short view but it seems your normal powers of logic get stymied when it comes to religious arguments. I have not seen cheap guns in years. Go to a gun show in Virginia. Plenty of working firearms for sale for $100 or less, and you can find individuals who will sell you one without bothering with the federal instant check. I'm gonna have to check that out! It's the gun show loophole. Plenty of unlicensed dealers roaming around who legally will sell you about anything you want, and many will not push even for ID. It's been documented many times. OK.... I've done some checking and found that this is just BS. First of all, dealers have to be Federally licensed. Period. If somebody is making something other than occasional sales of a firearm, they are guilty of a felony(ies). Private sales must be, by law, intrastate or a FFL dealer must be involved. The "Gun Show Loophole" is a weasel term created by a group of folks (probably the "Violence Policy Center") rabidly against guns. The only folks dealing guns without a license at gun shows are private gun owners and they are the only ones that have that option. There is no "loophole" nor has there ever been one. Virginia now requires that a state trooper be available at all gun shows to run background checks. His services are, however, voluntary. I might also reiterate that the term "unlicensed dealer" is nonsense.... My son is a law enforcement officer in Virginia and we discussed this at supper, tonight. He saw no more illegal guns in Virginia than NC, where pistol permits are required. He added that all Virginia sales of handguns through dealers are permitted and the permit is granted through the state's database. If you are trying a no-no and get creative filling out the paperwork, then you get a trip uptown and are charged with a *minimum* of two felonies and one misdemeanor.... more likely a minimum of three felonies. Bear in mind, this is a guy standing there waiting for the FFL dealer to hand him his gun and all he gets is carried out of the store in handcuffs. Finally, let's look at the scope of the "problem." The BJS filed a report "Firearms Use by Offenders" that found only 0.8%, that's 8 out of 1000.... inmates procured their weapon at a gun show. I'm guessing this "loophole" crap is a red herring.... Whoosh. It's the unlicensed guys selling guns out of the trunks of their cars we're discussing here, Gene. We'll then, let's not call them unlicensed dealers. They are private citizens selling the occasional firearm. If they are anything else, they are unarrested felons...... Fact of the matter is, though, the numbers don't seem to suggest that this is a problem.... They're not unarrested felons...because Virginia law allows them to sell guns from the trunks of their cars. There have been news stories about these boys parading around the selling floor and setting up actual booths at the shows. There also have been TV videos of guys in the shows themselves selling firearms and giggling off the federal quick check requirements. Hell, I think even 60 Minutes had a segment on it last year. It certainly wasn't "made up." The point is, gun laws in Virginia seem to be based upon a wink and a nod. *I* sold a firearm in Virginia to a Virginia resident. I called the Virginia State Police and was actually told I didn't have to do anything other than get a bill of sale. Well, I wasn't having any of that, so I arranged for the transfer through a Virginia FFL near Springfield, VA. I wanted an official record of the transaction, so in case that pistol showed up in a felony sometime in the future, I wouldn't be on the hook for it because I didn't have a paper trail showing a legitimate sale. |
Do we need more of this?
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