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Merry Christmas Seniors...
....Change is coming!
The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. “We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it’s not.”" Another - "Because Dartmouth’s analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus’s would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth’s approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/25/09 7:14 PM, John H wrote:
...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. “We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it’s not.”" Another - "Because Dartmouth’s analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus’s would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth’s approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? I'll be delighted to write up a DNR tag for your toe. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:36:20 -0500, Gene
wrote: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:14:37 -0500, John H wrote: ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. “We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it’s not.”" Another - "Because Dartmouth’s analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus’s would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth’s approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? When my time comes, I don't WANT to be in "a place where doctors will go to virtually any length and expense to try to save a patient’s life." I have a DNR and I MEAN it...... extreme medical intervention to keep one's bodily functions going after sentience has ceased does not constitute (at any rate of their cherished revenue) *life*.... at least not *life* as I care to know it.... This has been, in essence, a loophole in the law that allowed doctors and medical facilities to continue charging for "medical care" long after the patient was, by any sane definition, dead. It was legal fraud that the insurance companies allowed.... I DO NOT want my tax dollar wasted in that manner.... Good on ya. I don't want my tax dollar wasted on you either. However, I believe you should have the choice. And, there's always the chance that the extra little amount of medical care would add another ten fruitful years to your life. -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/25/09 9:56 PM, John H wrote:
And, there's always the chance that the extra little amount of medical care would add another ten fruitful years to your life. Well, no worries about that with you. ALL a DNR on your toe would mean is a net gain for the taxpayers. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
"John H" wrote in message ... ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 22:44:40 -0500, Gene wrote:
".... has earned a reputation as a place where doctors will go to virtually any length and expense to try to save a patient’s life. " This sounds great until you have to admit that an insurance policy isn't an unlimited blank check. Sooner or later, whoever is "the deep pockets" is going to start "rationing health care." But let's get real and evaluate the next sentence..... “If you come into this hospital, we’re not going to let you die....” Nothing for nothing, but this sounds like a great *teaching* hospital. I want a doctor that would take my death personally, not one that asks "What's for lunch?" as they wheel my body out. Holy Crap, what incredible impertinence! That is just NOT their decision. But wait, if you are in a persistent vegetative state, and they keep your heart beating by extraordinary means..... uh..... you haven't "died" yet..... right? At least not until the money runs out and they have to start rationing...... trust me.... there is NO FREE LUNCH.... and this has NOTHING to do with humanitarian feelings toward you.... this is a cold, hard, business decision..... It is a complex issue, isn't it? As it stands now, end of life spending is becoming a great transfer of wealth. Spending $100,000s to prolong a life a week or two, seems pretty silly, but how to you tell if it will be a couple of weeks or a couple of decades? A doctor should fight for every second of life. However, as the customer, I should set the parameters in which he works. Living wills are a good thing. You mention a "business decision". It seems to me tying health insurance to business, was a faulty paradigm from the beginning, competitively and socially. However, health care has the potential of reviving this entire economy. Health care jobs are well paying and *local*. IMO, they could provide a replacement for the manufacturing jobs we have lost. Our medical technology sector, already top of the world, could provide export dollars. In the public debate, we've been looking at health care as a drain on the economy. I'm thinking it could save the economy. It's basic economics, manufacture something of value, and the whole world values life, at least in theory. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:23:51 -0800, "Steve B" wrote: "John H" wrote in message . .. ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve Jon Stewart pointed out that these climate savers managed to lease every limo in western europe, some couriered in from as far away as Germany so nobody had to share a ride. Well, you can't have people who are interested in saving the planet have to ride two to a limo or two to a jet, now can you. It's just not done. I wonder how many heating oil tanks could have been filled for what was spent on that extravaganza. BTW, what's a caviar wedge? I understand they ate a lot of caviar. That would have bought a lot of turkeys at the shelters. I bet they had expensive cognac and real Cuban cigars, too. Nothing too good for our tax dollars. Steve |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/26/09 12:20 AM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:23:51 -0800, "Steve B" wrote: "John wrote in message ... ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve Jon Stewart pointed out that these climate savers managed to lease every limo in western europe, some couriered in from as far away as Germany so nobody had to share a ride. Well, you can't have people who are interested in saving the planet have to ride two to a limo or two to a jet, now can you. It's just not done. I wonder how many heating oil tanks could have been filled for what was spent on that extravaganza. BTW, what's a caviar wedge? I understand they ate a lot of caviar. That would have bought a lot of turkeys at the shelters. I bet they had expensive cognac and real Cuban cigars, too. Nothing too good for our tax dollars. Steve Does anyone recall "stevie" objecting when bush was spending like a drunken sailor, and cutting taxes for the wealthy at the same time? Hypocrisy, thy real name is republican/conservative. Nothing is piled higher than republican/conservative b.s. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 22:44:40 -0500, Gene
wrote: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:56:19 -0500, John H wrote: However, I believe you should have the choice. What choice? Dying with dignity or being kept alive, with extraordinary means, in a persistent vegetative state? Indefinitely? And, there's always the chance that the extra little amount of medical care would add another ten fruitful years to your life. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this. Let's recap, per your link: ".... has earned a reputation as a place where doctors will go to virtually any length and expense to try to save a patient’s life. " This sounds great until you have to admit that an insurance policy isn't an unlimited blank check. Sooner or later, whoever is "the deep pockets" is going to start "rationing health care." But let's get real and evaluate the next sentence..... “If you come into this hospital, we’re not going to let you die....” Holy Crap, what incredible impertinence! That is just NOT their decision. But wait, if you are in a persistent vegetative state, and they keep your heart beating by extraordinary means..... uh..... you haven't "died" yet..... right? At least not until the money runs out and they have to start rationing...... trust me.... there is NO FREE LUNCH.... and this has NOTHING to do with humanitarian feelings toward you.... this is a cold, hard, business decision..... You missed this: "Take the case of Salah Putrus, who at age 71 had a long history of heart failure. After repeated visits to his local hospital near Burbank, Calif., Mr. Putrus was referred to U.C.L.A. this year to be evaluated for a heart transplant. Some other medical centers might have considered Mr. Putrus too old for the surgery. But U.C.L.A.’s attitude was “let’s see what we can do for him,” said his physician there, Dr. Tamara Horwich. Indeed, Mr. Putrus recalled, Dr. Horwich and her colleagues “did every test.” They changed his medicines to reduce the amount of water he was retaining. They even removed some teeth that could be a potential source of infection. His condition improved so much that more than six months later, Mr. Putrus has remained out of the hospital and is no longer considered in active need of a transplant. " -- John H "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Churchill |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
Harry wrote:
On 12/26/09 12:20 AM, Steve B wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:23:51 -0800, "Steve B" wrote: "John wrote in message ... ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve Jon Stewart pointed out that these climate savers managed to lease every limo in western europe, some couriered in from as far away as Germany so nobody had to share a ride. Well, you can't have people who are interested in saving the planet have to ride two to a limo or two to a jet, now can you. It's just not done. I wonder how many heating oil tanks could have been filled for what was spent on that extravaganza. BTW, what's a caviar wedge? I understand they ate a lot of caviar. That would have bought a lot of turkeys at the shelters. I bet they had expensive cognac and real Cuban cigars, too. Nothing too good for our tax dollars. Steve Does anyone recall "stevie" objecting when bush was spending like a drunken sailor, and cutting taxes for the wealthy at the same time? Hypocrisy, thy real name is republican/conservative. Nothing is piled higher than republican/conservative b.s. Nothing except the burgeoning public debt. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 23:17:46 -0600, thunder
wrote: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 22:44:40 -0500, Gene wrote: ".... has earned a reputation as a place where doctors will go to virtually any length and expense to try to save a patient?s life. " This sounds great until you have to admit that an insurance policy isn't an unlimited blank check. Sooner or later, whoever is "the deep pockets" is going to start "rationing health care." But let's get real and evaluate the next sentence..... ?If you come into this hospital, we?re not going to let you die....? Nothing for nothing, but this sounds like a great *teaching* hospital. I want a doctor that would take my death personally, not one that asks "What's for lunch?" as they wheel my body out. Holy Crap, what incredible impertinence! That is just NOT their decision. But wait, if you are in a persistent vegetative state, and they keep your heart beating by extraordinary means..... uh..... you haven't "died" yet..... right? At least not until the money runs out and they have to start rationing...... trust me.... there is NO FREE LUNCH.... and this has NOTHING to do with humanitarian feelings toward you.... this is a cold, hard, business decision..... It is a complex issue, isn't it? As it stands now, end of life spending is becoming a great transfer of wealth. Spending $100,000s to prolong a life a week or two, seems pretty silly, but how to you tell if it will be a couple of weeks or a couple of decades? A doctor should fight for every second of life. However, as the customer, I should set the parameters in which he works. Living wills are a good thing. You mention a "business decision". It seems to me tying health insurance to business, was a faulty paradigm from the beginning, competitively and socially. However, health care has the potential of reviving this entire economy. Health care jobs are well paying and *local*. IMO, they could provide a replacement for the manufacturing jobs we have lost. Our medical technology sector, already top of the world, could provide export dollars. In the public debate, we've been looking at health care as a drain on the economy. I'm thinking it could save the economy. It's basic economics, manufacture something of value, and the whole world values life, at least in theory. "Living wills are a good thing." Great words. The choice is yours to make, not some money advisor to the President. -- John H "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Churchill |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 23:07:08 -0500, Gene
wrote: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:14:37 -0500, John H wrote: Another - "Because Dartmouth’s analysis focuses solely on patients who have died The rest of the sentence, please... "...a case like Mr. Putrus’s would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth’s approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine:" John, while were at it, let's make this little, all to obvious, observation..... ALL patients DIE.... that's just the way things are.... should Dartmouth consider only immortals??? That's nuts, isn't it?? As you cut the rest of the sentence, the remainder of your argument is specious. -- John H "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Churchill |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:21:51 -0500, Jim wrote:
Harry wrote: On 12/26/09 12:20 AM, Steve B wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:23:51 -0800, "Steve B" wrote: "John wrote in message ... ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve Jon Stewart pointed out that these climate savers managed to lease every limo in western europe, some couriered in from as far away as Germany so nobody had to share a ride. Well, you can't have people who are interested in saving the planet have to ride two to a limo or two to a jet, now can you. It's just not done. I wonder how many heating oil tanks could have been filled for what was spent on that extravaganza. BTW, what's a caviar wedge? I understand they ate a lot of caviar. That would have bought a lot of turkeys at the shelters. I bet they had expensive cognac and real Cuban cigars, too. Nothing too good for our tax dollars. Steve Does anyone recall "stevie" objecting when bush was spending like a drunken sailor, and cutting taxes for the wealthy at the same time? Hypocrisy, thy real name is republican/conservative. Nothing is piled higher than republican/conservative b.s. Nothing except the burgeoning public debt. Did someone justify Obama's spending using Bush as a rationale? How silly. -- John H "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Churchill |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Dec 25, 7:14*pm, John H wrote:
...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it s not. " Another - "Because Dartmouth s analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus s would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth s approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H John, couldn't you, at least during the holidays stop your stupid and inane everything Obama is bad bull****? |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Dec 25, 9:56*pm, John H wrote:
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:36:20 -0500, Gene wrote: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:14:37 -0500, John H wrote: ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. “We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it’s not.”" Another - "Because Dartmouth’s analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus’s would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth’s approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? When my time comes, I don't WANT to be in "a place where doctors will go to virtually any length and expense to try to save a patient’s life." I have a DNR and I MEAN it...... *extreme medical intervention to keep one's bodily functions going after sentience has ceased does not constitute (at any rate of their cherished revenue) *life*.... at least not *life* as I care to know it.... This has been, in essence, a loophole in the law that allowed doctors and medical facilities to continue charging for "medical care" long after the patient was, by any sane definition, dead. It was legal fraud that the insurance companies allowed.... I DO NOT want my tax dollar wasted in that manner.... Good on ya. I don't want my tax dollar wasted on you either. However, I believe you should have the choice. And, there's always the chance that the extra little amount of medical care would add another ten fruitful years to your life. -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Oh, you don't want your tax dollars wasted on someone else, but you're fine with taxpayers paying to keep YOU alive if you so choose? |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
John H wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:21:51 -0500, Jim wrote: Harry wrote: On 12/26/09 12:20 AM, Steve B wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:23:51 -0800, "Steve B" wrote: "John wrote in message ... ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve Jon Stewart pointed out that these climate savers managed to lease every limo in western europe, some couriered in from as far away as Germany so nobody had to share a ride. Well, you can't have people who are interested in saving the planet have to ride two to a limo or two to a jet, now can you. It's just not done. I wonder how many heating oil tanks could have been filled for what was spent on that extravaganza. BTW, what's a caviar wedge? I understand they ate a lot of caviar. That would have bought a lot of turkeys at the shelters. I bet they had expensive cognac and real Cuban cigars, too. Nothing too good for our tax dollars. Steve Does anyone recall "stevie" objecting when bush was spending like a drunken sailor, and cutting taxes for the wealthy at the same time? Hypocrisy, thy real name is republican/conservative. Nothing is piled higher than republican/conservative b.s. Nothing except the burgeoning public debt. Did someone justify Obama's spending using Bush as a rationale? How silly. I think it was Krausie that first introduced that insane rationalization. Now that his boy isn't doing so well, we can look forward to Krausie vocalizing the DNCs lame apologies for their shining star tripping all over himself. It's going to be a busy two years for Krausie. I'll bet that even Sarah Palin could beat his boy in 2012. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Dec 26, 8:34*am, John H wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:21:51 -0500, Jim wrote: Harry wrote: On 12/26/09 12:20 AM, Steve B wrote: *wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:23:51 -0800, "Steve B" *wrote: "John *wrote in message om... ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve Jon Stewart pointed out that these climate savers managed to lease every limo in western europe, some couriered in from as far away as Germany so nobody had to share a ride. Well, you can't have people who are interested in saving the planet have to ride two to a limo or two to a jet, now can you. *It's just not done. I wonder how many heating oil tanks could have been filled for what was spent on that extravaganza. BTW, what's a caviar wedge? *I understand they ate a lot of caviar. *That would have bought a lot of turkeys at the shelters. I bet they had expensive cognac and real Cuban cigars, too. Nothing too good for our tax dollars. Steve Does anyone recall "stevie" objecting when bush was spending like a drunken sailor, and cutting taxes for the wealthy at the same time? Hypocrisy, thy real name is republican/conservative. Nothing is piled higher than republican/conservative b.s. Nothing except the burgeoning public debt. Did someone justify Obama's spending using Bush as a rationale? How silly. -- John H "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Churchill- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Ever hear of the word "precedent"? It's used legally binding all of the time. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:54:19 -0500, Jim wrote:
I think it was Krausie that first introduced that insane rationalization. Now that his boy isn't doing so well, we can look forward to Krausie vocalizing the DNCs lame apologies for their shining star tripping all over himself. It's going to be a busy two years for Krausie. I'll bet that even Sarah Palin could beat his boy in 2012. "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. As for Palin, I was recently talking to a diehard Republican who is convinced she is working for the Democrats. In his opinion, nothing else explains the damage she is doing the Republican Party. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:33:25 -0600, thunder
wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:54:19 -0500, Jim wrote: I think it was Krausie that first introduced that insane rationalization. Now that his boy isn't doing so well, we can look forward to Krausie vocalizing the DNCs lame apologies for their shining star tripping all over himself. It's going to be a busy two years for Krausie. I'll bet that even Sarah Palin could beat his boy in 2012. "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. As for Palin, I was recently talking to a diehard Republican who is convinced she is working for the Democrats. In his opinion, nothing else explains the damage she is doing the Republican Party. Obama gets my vote as Messiah of the year! Your boy can do no wrong. http://tinyurl.com/y8ov56y -- John H "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Churchill |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:54:54 -0500, John H wrote:
"His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. As for Palin, I was recently talking to a diehard Republican who is convinced she is working for the Democrats. In his opinion, nothing else explains the damage she is doing the Republican Party. Obama gets my vote as Messiah of the year! Your boy can do no wrong. http://tinyurl.com/y8ov56y Yup, it sure is starting to look that way. Sure does suck to be a Republican these days, doesn't it? |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 26, 8:34 am, John H wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:21:51 -0500, Jim wrote: Harry wrote: On 12/26/09 12:20 AM, Steve B wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:23:51 -0800, "Steve B" wrote: "John wrote in message ... ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve Jon Stewart pointed out that these climate savers managed to lease every limo in western europe, some couriered in from as far away as Germany so nobody had to share a ride. Well, you can't have people who are interested in saving the planet have to ride two to a limo or two to a jet, now can you. It's just not done. I wonder how many heating oil tanks could have been filled for what was spent on that extravaganza. BTW, what's a caviar wedge? I understand they ate a lot of caviar. That would have bought a lot of turkeys at the shelters. I bet they had expensive cognac and real Cuban cigars, too. Nothing too good for our tax dollars. Steve Does anyone recall "stevie" objecting when bush was spending like a drunken sailor, and cutting taxes for the wealthy at the same time? Hypocrisy, thy real name is republican/conservative. Nothing is piled higher than republican/conservative b.s. Nothing except the burgeoning public debt. Did someone justify Obama's spending using Bush as a rationale? How silly. -- John H "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Churchill- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Ever hear of the word "precedent"? It's used legally binding all of the time. Can you clarify? |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
thunder wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:54:54 -0500, John H wrote: "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. As for Palin, I was recently talking to a diehard Republican who is convinced she is working for the Democrats. In his opinion, nothing else explains the damage she is doing the Republican Party. Obama gets my vote as Messiah of the year! Your boy can do no wrong. http://tinyurl.com/y8ov56y Yup, it sure is starting to look that way. Sure does suck to be a Republican these days, doesn't it? I guess he's your boy as well. Americans are nervous about your boy running amok in our candy store handing out goodies to his friends. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
In article ,
says... On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:54:54 -0500, John H wrote: "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. As for Palin, I was recently talking to a diehard Republican who is convinced she is working for the Democrats. In his opinion, nothing else explains the damage she is doing the Republican Party. Obama gets my vote as Messiah of the year! Your boy can do no wrong. http://tinyurl.com/y8ov56y Yup, it sure is starting to look that way. Sure does suck to be a Republican these days, doesn't it? Obama and Emanuel had better stop running afoul of the Daley machine. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Dec 26, 10:15Â*am, "D.Duck" wrote:
Loogypicker wrote: On Dec 26, 8:34 am, John H wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:21:51 -0500, Jim wrote: Harry wrote: On 12/26/09 12:20 AM, Steve B wrote: Â*wrote in message om... On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:23:51 -0800, "Steve B" Â*wrote: "John Â*wrote in message news:b5laj5hrbqgpego8r6tiulf9jca9k39aig@4ax .com... ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. "We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it's not."" Another - "Because Dartmouth's analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus's would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth's approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H If they were serious about saving money, wouldn't they just all get on a conference call instead of flying their jets to Denmark to schmooze around? Barry has some expensive tastes, and so does Michelle. Steve Jon Stewart pointed out that these climate savers managed to lease every limo in western europe, some couriered in from as far away as Germany so nobody had to share a ride. Well, you can't have people who are interested in saving the planet have to ride two to a limo or two to a jet, now can you. Â*It's just not done. I wonder how many heating oil tanks could have been filled for what was spent on that extravaganza. BTW, what's a caviar wedge? Â*I understand they ate a lot of caviar. Â*That would have bought a lot of turkeys at the shelters. I bet they had expensive cognac and real Cuban cigars, too. Nothing too good for our tax dollars. Steve Does anyone recall "stevie" objecting when bush was spending like a drunken sailor, and cutting taxes for the wealthy at the same time? Hypocrisy, thy real name is republican/conservative. Nothing is piled higher than republican/conservative b.s. Nothing except the burgeoning public debt. Did someone justify Obama's spending using Bush as a rationale? How silly. -- John H "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Churchill- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Ever hear of the word "precedent"? It's used legally binding all of the time. Can you clarify?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Yes: precâ‹…eâ‹…dent  /n. ˈprÉ›sɪdÉ™nt; adj. prɪˈsidnt, ˈprÉ›sɪdÉ™nt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [n. pres-i-duhnt; adj. pri-seed-nt, pres-i-duhnt] Show IPA –noun 1. Law. a legal decision or form of proceeding serving as an authoritative rule or pattern in future similar or analogous cases. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
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Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Dec 26, 9:33*am, thunder wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:54:19 -0500, Jim wrote: I think it was Krausie that first introduced that insane rationalization. Now that his boy isn't doing so well, we can look forward to Krausie vocalizing the DNCs lame apologies for their shining star tripping all over himself. It's going to be a busy two years for Krausie. I'll bet that even Sarah Palin could beat his boy in 2012. "His boy?" *I think you mean *our* President. *You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. *The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. *Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. *I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. * You'd better start working harder to get the word out. Your opinion is now in the overwhelming minority. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/26/09 9:33 AM, thunder wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:54:19 -0500, Jim wrote: I think it was Krausie that first introduced that insane rationalization. Now that his boy isn't doing so well, we can look forward to Krausie vocalizing the DNCs lame apologies for their shining star tripping all over himself. It's going to be a busy two years for Krausie. I'll bet that even Sarah Palin could beat his boy in 2012. "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. As for Palin, I was recently talking to a diehard Republican who is convinced she is working for the Democrats. In his opinion, nothing else explains the damage she is doing the Republican Party. Ahhh...Sarah Palin. I wonder if she's read her book *yet* - - - the one she didn't write. Of course, the literate among us also wonder what newspapers and magazines she reads. What a dumb douchebag she is - - - and perfect as the new GOP leader. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:12:54 -0800, Jack wrote:
"His boy?" Â*I think you mean *our* President. Â*You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. Â*The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Â*Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. Â*I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. You'd better start working harder to get the word out. Your opinion is now in the overwhelming minority. LOL, more denial from the right. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/26/09 11:12 AM, Jack wrote:
On Dec 26, 9:33 am, wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:54:19 -0500, Jim wrote: I think it was Krausie that first introduced that insane rationalization. Now that his boy isn't doing so well, we can look forward to Krausie vocalizing the DNCs lame apologies for their shining star tripping all over himself. It's going to be a busy two years for Krausie. I'll bet that even Sarah Palin could beat his boy in 2012. "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. You'd better start working harder to get the word out. Your opinion is now in the overwhelming minority. Uh-huh. Go back to bed, jackoff. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Dec 26, 11:15*am, thunder wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:12:54 -0800, Jack wrote: "His boy?" *I think you mean *our* President. *You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. *The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. *Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. *I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. You'd better start working harder to get the word out. *Your opinion is now in the overwhelming minority. LOL, more denial from the right. LOL yourself... "Overall, 44% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. The President’s overall approval has stayed between 44% and 46% every day for thirteen days. Prior to that, it had stayed between 46% and 50% every day for more than two months. Fifty- six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." That bears repeating... "Fifty-six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
"thunder" wrote in message
t... On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:54:54 -0500, John H wrote: "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. As for Palin, I was recently talking to a diehard Republican who is convinced she is working for the Democrats. In his opinion, nothing else explains the damage she is doing the Republican Party. Obama gets my vote as Messiah of the year! Your boy can do no wrong. http://tinyurl.com/y8ov56y Yup, it sure is starting to look that way. Sure does suck to be a Republican these days, doesn't it? Thunder, they're really embarassed by Palin... the normal, sane ones. The ones who think she's actually presidential material are not normal. It really ****es them off (the latter), who can't understand why normal folks aren't willing to follow them down the path to destruction. If the jobs situation turns around before the next Congressional election, the Dems will likely increase their lead in the House and perhaps even the Senate. If the economy continues to rebound, Obama will be reelected in another landslide. So far, I haven't seen a viable presidential-level Rep., but of course it's way early. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/26/09 11:42 AM, Jack wrote:
On Dec 26, 11:15 am, wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:12:54 -0800, Jack wrote: "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. You'd better start working harder to get the word out. Your opinion is now in the overwhelming minority. LOL, more denial from the right. LOL yourself... "Overall, 44% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. The President’s overall approval has stayed between 44% and 46% every day for thirteen days. Prior to that, it had stayed between 46% and 50% every day for more than two months. Fifty- six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." That bears repeating... "Fifty-six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." Ooooooh...jackoff is quoting the right-wing rasmussen bull**** poll...how impressive. The legit polls are reporting different information. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
"Loogypicker" wrote in message
... On Dec 25, 7:14 pm, John H wrote: ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it s not. " Another - "Because Dartmouth s analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus s would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth s approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H John, couldn't you, at least during the holidays stop your stupid and inane everything Obama is bad bull****? He can't help it. He and Rob are truly losers. Rob is obnoxious, so I've decided to just ignore his posts.. call it a New Year resolution. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
"Jim" wrote \ I guess he's your boy as well. Americans are nervous about your boy running amok in our candy store handing out goodies to his friends. It's a little late for that. He's done give the candy store away. Steve |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/26/09 11:48 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message t... On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:54:54 -0500, John H wrote: "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. As for Palin, I was recently talking to a diehard Republican who is convinced she is working for the Democrats. In his opinion, nothing else explains the damage she is doing the Republican Party. Obama gets my vote as Messiah of the year! Your boy can do no wrong. http://tinyurl.com/y8ov56y Yup, it sure is starting to look that way. Sure does suck to be a Republican these days, doesn't it? Thunder, they're really embarassed by Palin... the normal, sane ones. The ones who think she's actually presidential material are not normal. It really ****es them off (the latter), who can't understand why normal folks aren't willing to follow them down the path to destruction. If the jobs situation turns around before the next Congressional election, the Dems will likely increase their lead in the House and perhaps even the Senate. If the economy continues to rebound, Obama will be reelected in another landslide. So far, I haven't seen a viable presidential-level Rep., but of course it's way early. Palin is even less qualified for high office than Dubya was. You'd think eight years of his incompetency would make voters wary about dumb, simple-minded pols... Look who supports Palin he BAR, herring, jackoff, et cetera...the dumbest of the dumb. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/26/09 11:50 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message ... On Dec 25, 7:14 pm, John wrote: ...Change is coming! The NYTimes is giving seniors a Christmas present to ponder. http://tinyurl.com/yl9vumo "Peter R. Orszag, the White House budget director and a disciple of the Dartmouth data, has noted. We can no longer afford an overall health care system in which the thought is more is always better, because it s not. " Another - "Because Dartmouth s analysis focuses solely on patients who have died, a case like Mr. Putrus s would not show up in its data. That is why critics say Dartmouth s approach takes an overly pessimistic view of medicine: if you consider only the patients who die, there is really no way to know whether it makes sense to spend more on one case than another." A preview of things to come? -- Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year! John H John, couldn't you, at least during the holidays stop your stupid and inane everything Obama is bad bull****? He can't help it. He and Rob are truly losers. Rob is obnoxious, so I've decided to just ignore his posts.. call it a New Year resolution. "Rob" changes his handles here more frequently than he changes his underwear, his wife says. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:42:30 -0800, Jack wrote:
On Dec 26, 11:15Â*am, thunder wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:12:54 -0800, Jack wrote: "His boy?" Â*I think you mean *our* President. Â*You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. Â*The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Â*Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. Â*I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. You'd better start working harder to get the word out. Â*Your opinion is now in the overwhelming minority. LOL, more denial from the right. LOL yourself... "Overall, 44% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. The President’s overall approval has stayed between 44% and 46% every day for thirteen days. Prior to that, it had stayed between 46% and 50% every day for more than two months. Fifty- six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." That bears repeating... "Fifty-six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." A 45% approval rating is not an "overwhelming minority." Republican approval ratings are approaching an overwhelming minority. http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm But then, who cares about poll numbers. At about this time in his Presidency, Reagan's approval ratings were less than 50%. He served two full terms, and many consider him to be one of the great presidents. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On 12/26/09 11:57 AM, thunder wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:42:30 -0800, Jack wrote: On Dec 26, 11:15 am, wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:12:54 -0800, Jack wrote: "His boy?" I think you mean *our* President. You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. You'd better start working harder to get the word out. Your opinion is now in the overwhelming minority. LOL, more denial from the right. LOL yourself... "Overall, 44% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. The President’s overall approval has stayed between 44% and 46% every day for thirteen days. Prior to that, it had stayed between 46% and 50% every day for more than two months. Fifty- six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." That bears repeating... "Fifty-six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." A 45% approval rating is not an "overwhelming minority." Republican approval ratings are approaching an overwhelming minority. http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm But then, who cares about poll numbers. At about this time in his Presidency, Reagan's approval ratings were less than 50%. He served two full terms, and many consider him to be one of the great presidents. The right-wing scumbags are hopeful, because, well, hope is all they have. |
Merry Christmas Seniors...
On Dec 26, 11:57*am, thunder wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:42:30 -0800, Jack wrote: On Dec 26, 11:15*am, thunder wrote: On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:12:54 -0800, Jack wrote: "His boy?" *I think you mean *our* President. *You can live in denial, but I'll point out Obama's main legislative agenda, health care reform, looks to be on track for passage. *The recession is over and jobs *will* rebound. *Not at all bad for his *first* year in office. *I'm thinking Obama is becoming unstoppable. You'd better start working harder to get the word out. *Your opinion is now in the overwhelming minority. LOL, more denial from the right. LOL yourself... "Overall, 44% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. The President’s overall approval has stayed between 44% and 46% every day for thirteen days. Prior to that, it had stayed between 46% and 50% every day for more than two months. Fifty- six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." That bears repeating... "Fifty-six percent (56%) now disapprove of the President’s performance." A 45% approval rating is not an "overwhelming minority." *Republican approval ratings are approaching an overwhelming minority. http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm But then, who cares about poll numbers. *At about this time in his Presidency, Reagan's approval ratings were less than 50%. *He served two full terms, and many consider him to be one of the great presidents. And Obama has fallen in the polls farther and faster than any other president in recent memory, including Carter. But to define "overwhelming", I'm just using the liberal's definition. After all, you guys called a 2 - 3 % victory for Obama in the popular vote overwhelming. You're not allowed to change the definition now just because your boy looks bad. Too bad. After this recession falters along, then the tax hikes start kicking in for *all* Americans, and the stagflation is the top story, it won't matter how loudly you guys shout that it's Bush's fault. The public has a short memory, and it's your boy in charge. Obama will be Carter redux... another Dem one-hit-wonder. It's already in the cards. Enjoy it while you can. |
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