The Obamacare Bill passed...
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:53:16 -0500, John H
wrote:

...because a few Dems showed their true colors. For enough money they
could be bought. Thankfully, Olympia Snowe showed a little bit of
integrity.

"Reid cut numerous last-minute deals to get the votes he needed and
powerful Democrats also inserted home-state provisions in a 383-page
package of amendments Reid filed this weekend to the 2,074-page bill.

Among other items, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus,
D-Mont., included a provision allowing residents of the town of Libby,
Mont., who are suffering asbestos-related illnesses from a mining
operation to get Medicare benefits. Nelson won a list of benefits for
Nebraska including a commitment for the federal government to pick up
the full tab of an expansion of Medicaid. And Sen. Christopher Dodd,
D-Conn., who faces a difficult re-election, inserted a $100 million
item for construction of a university hospital that his spokesman said
he hopes to claim for the University of Connecticut."

And Nelson said he couldn't be bought. Right.

http://tinyurl.com/yl3wxz7

They didn't really pass anything. The vote last night just cut off the
debate. (it was simply a cloture vote)
It does show that the senate has the votes when the house finds
something they can agree to.

We have yet to see if house Democrats will go along with a bill that
has no public option and some other things they want.

This is certainly a budget buster bill, no matter what the house does.
I just wish my Nelson had the juice of the Nebraska one. Lee County
says Medicaid will be costing us another 1.2 million. I guess another
fire house will have to close.


Nope. According to the CBO it'll save about $120B in the first 10 years.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Basically because the Federal Government will collect money for a couple
years before paying it out.

So, if I build up my savings before I spend it, that's a bad thing. Could
perhaps find something you actually know about to type about...

--
Nom=de=Plume


That is the only reason there is a surplus the first couple years. After
that it is pure deficit spending.

The Obamacare Bill passed...
 

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:09:10 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:53:16 -0500, John H
wrote:

...because a few Dems showed their true colors. For enough money they
could be bought. Thankfully, Olympia Snowe showed a little bit of
integrity.

"Reid cut numerous last-minute deals to get the votes he needed and
powerful Democrats also inserted home-state provisions in a 383-page
package of amendments Reid filed this weekend to the 2,074-page bill.

Among other items, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus,
D-Mont., included a provision allowing residents of the town of Libby,
Mont., who are suffering asbestos-related illnesses from a mining
operation to get Medicare benefits. Nelson won a list of benefits for
Nebraska including a commitment for the federal government to pick up
the full tab of an expansion of Medicaid. And Sen. Christopher Dodd,
D-Conn., who faces a difficult re-election, inserted a $100 million
item for construction of a university hospital that his spokesman said
he hopes to claim for the University of Connecticut."

And Nelson said he couldn't be bought. Right.

http://tinyurl.com/yl3wxz7

They didn't really pass anything. The vote last night just cut off the
debate. (it was simply a cloture vote)
It does show that the senate has the votes when the house finds
something they can agree to.

We have yet to see if house Democrats will go along with a bill that
has no public option and some other things they want.

This is certainly a budget buster bill, no matter what the house does.
I just wish my Nelson had the juice of the Nebraska one. Lee County
says Medicaid will be costing us another 1.2 million. I guess another
fire house will have to close.


Nope. According to the CBO it'll save about $120B in the first 10 years.

That all depends on which CBO study you are talking about and which
assumptions are true. They are planning on cuts to Medicare that will
never happen for starters. The other thing is ther feds are dumping
some of this cost off to states so it is not on the federal budget.

I am still not convinced any of this will actually make it to the
president's desk. They still have to talk the house into the bill the
senate came up with and the reality is the senate hasn't really passed
the bill themselves yet. The vote the other night was just to cut off
debate. All it will take is for one democrat to waver and we could be
right back at looking for 60 again.
That is the reason the republicans delayed the vote. The country will
get 3 days to actually read this bill and call their senators.
It will probably still get passed in the senate but the house has big
changes to accept from what they passed.


Yes, it depends on the final bill, but to claim that it'll increase costs is
nuts. It won't. Everyone relies on the CBO, yet the Republicans just ignore
it when it suits them. They're delaying it because they can't accept that
there's a need for action. They're obstructionists who don't give a damn
about the people they serve.

Certainly, the Democrats have their own problems, but that doesn't excuse
the Republicans behavior, which is despicable.

Well, I see you are still here;) As I redo my filters, please answer me
one question. What possible motive or reason would republicans have to
do what they knew was wrong for the people they serve? This is a nice
talking point, but really, where is the up side for them?

The Obamacare Bill passed...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:39:07 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:44:14 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

There's no short period of savings. The CBO is projecting 10 years of
savings, and beyond that even more savings. Where are you getting the
notion
that the Medicare cuts won't happen?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/MedicareFactSheetFinal/

Suddenly, you're the tax expert?


No I just know how scared of old people the politicians are.

They are not going to cut Medicare in any real sense.
You are also ignoring the spending they are spinning off to the
states, well every state but Nebraska.


I don't think "old people" should be discounted. I think they should be
honored. They deserve (most of them) to live out their lives with some
dignity.

You're right. They're not going to cut the entitlements. They're going after
fraud, waste, and abuse.

The last president who had any success with that was Eisenhower.

I agree there is plenty of fraud waste and abuse in Medicare. Miami,
right across the swamp from me is ground zero for that.
The problem is, when you streamline administration and do what you can
to speed up payments you create loopholes a crook can drive a truck
through. One of the reasons insurance companies spend more for
administration is they spend more time processing claims and
investigating for fraud.
When they looked into the Miami fraud cases, what they found was the
government was paying the bill, then checking to see if it was valid.
By the time they figured out they were robbed, the crook was long
gone, packed up and moved down the road to scam them again under a
different name.

Personally I think we should have an exception to the "cruel and
unusual punishment" ban for people who steal from the government ;-)

You mean people who steal back?

The Obamacare Bill passed...
 

In article ,
says...

"S" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:09:10 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:53:16 -0500, John H
wrote:

...because a few Dems showed their true colors. For enough money they
could be bought. Thankfully, Olympia Snowe showed a little bit of
integrity.

"Reid cut numerous last-minute deals to get the votes he needed and
powerful Democrats also inserted home-state provisions in a 383-page
package of amendments Reid filed this weekend to the 2,074-page bill.

Among other items, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus,
D-Mont., included a provision allowing residents of the town of
Libby,
Mont., who are suffering asbestos-related illnesses from a mining
operation to get Medicare benefits. Nelson won a list of benefits for
Nebraska including a commitment for the federal government to pick up
the full tab of an expansion of Medicaid. And Sen. Christopher Dodd,
D-Conn., who faces a difficult re-election, inserted a $100 million
item for construction of a university hospital that his spokesman
said
he hopes to claim for the University of Connecticut."

And Nelson said he couldn't be bought. Right.

http://tinyurl.com/yl3wxz7

They didn't really pass anything. The vote last night just cut off
the
debate. (it was simply a cloture vote)
It does show that the senate has the votes when the house finds
something they can agree to.

We have yet to see if house Democrats will go along with a bill that
has no public option and some other things they want.

This is certainly a budget buster bill, no matter what the house
does.
I just wish my Nelson had the juice of the Nebraska one. Lee County
says Medicaid will be costing us another 1.2 million. I guess another
fire house will have to close.


Nope. According to the CBO it'll save about $120B in the first 10
years.

That all depends on which CBO study you are talking about and which
assumptions are true. They are planning on cuts to Medicare that will
never happen for starters. The other thing is ther feds are dumping
some of this cost off to states so it is not on the federal budget.

I am still not convinced any of this will actually make it to the
president's desk. They still have to talk the house into the bill the
senate came up with and the reality is the senate hasn't really passed
the bill themselves yet. The vote the other night was just to cut off
debate. All it will take is for one democrat to waver and we could be
right back at looking for 60 again.
That is the reason the republicans delayed the vote. The country will
get 3 days to actually read this bill and call their senators.
It will probably still get passed in the senate but the house has big
changes to accept from what they passed.


Yes, it depends on the final bill, but to claim that it'll increase costs
is
nuts. It won't. Everyone relies on the CBO, yet the Republicans just
ignore
it when it suits them. They're delaying it because they can't accept that
there's a need for action. They're obstructionists who don't give a damn
about the people they serve.

Certainly, the Democrats have their own problems, but that doesn't excuse
the Republicans behavior, which is despicable.

Well, I see you are still here;) As I redo my filters, please answer me
one question. What possible motive or reason would republicans have to
do what they knew was wrong for the people they serve? This is a nice
talking point, but really, where is the up side for them?


I don't know. That's the mystery. They're working against their own best
interest. I think they're so caught up in "opposition" mode, that nothing
seems to penetrate. Several are playing to their core base, which is tiny.
There's no upside, and they haven't figured it out yet. They're in the
political wilderness, and I'm hopeful that they will emerge someday. We need
at least two strong parties in this country.

That's it, that is your answer? You have no answer as with most of your
talking points, that's just what they are.. Crazy indeed...

The Obamacare Bill passed...
 

"S" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"S" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:09:10 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:53:16 -0500, John H

wrote:

...because a few Dems showed their true colors. For enough money
they
could be bought. Thankfully, Olympia Snowe showed a little bit of
integrity.

"Reid cut numerous last-minute deals to get the votes he needed
and
powerful Democrats also inserted home-state provisions in a
383-page
package of amendments Reid filed this weekend to the 2,074-page
bill.

Among other items, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus,
D-Mont., included a provision allowing residents of the town of
Libby,
Mont., who are suffering asbestos-related illnesses from a mining
operation to get Medicare benefits. Nelson won a list of benefits
for
Nebraska including a commitment for the federal government to pick
up
the full tab of an expansion of Medicaid. And Sen. Christopher
Dodd,
D-Conn., who faces a difficult re-election, inserted a $100
million
item for construction of a university hospital that his spokesman
said
he hopes to claim for the University of Connecticut."

And Nelson said he couldn't be bought. Right.

http://tinyurl.com/yl3wxz7

They didn't really pass anything. The vote last night just cut off
the
debate. (it was simply a cloture vote)
It does show that the senate has the votes when the house finds
something they can agree to.

We have yet to see if house Democrats will go along with a bill
that
has no public option and some other things they want.

This is certainly a budget buster bill, no matter what the house
does.
I just wish my Nelson had the juice of the Nebraska one. Lee
County
says Medicaid will be costing us another 1.2 million. I guess
another
fire house will have to close.


Nope. According to the CBO it'll save about $120B in the first 10
years.

That all depends on which CBO study you are talking about and which
assumptions are true. They are planning on cuts to Medicare that
will
never happen for starters. The other thing is ther feds are dumping
some of this cost off to states so it is not on the federal budget.

I am still not convinced any of this will actually make it to the
president's desk. They still have to talk the house into the bill
the
senate came up with and the reality is the senate hasn't really
passed
the bill themselves yet. The vote the other night was just to cut
off
debate. All it will take is for one democrat to waver and we could
be
right back at looking for 60 again.
That is the reason the republicans delayed the vote. The country
will
get 3 days to actually read this bill and call their senators.
It will probably still get passed in the senate but the house has
big
changes to accept from what they passed.


Yes, it depends on the final bill, but to claim that it'll increase
costs
is
nuts. It won't. Everyone relies on the CBO, yet the Republicans just
ignore
it when it suits them. They're delaying it because they can't accept
that
there's a need for action. They're obstructionists who don't give a
damn
about the people they serve.

Certainly, the Democrats have their own problems, but that doesn't
excuse
the Republicans behavior, which is despicable.

Well, I see you are still here;) As I redo my filters, please answer me
one question. What possible motive or reason would republicans have to
do what they knew was wrong for the people they serve? This is a nice
talking point, but really, where is the up side for them?


I don't know. That's the mystery. They're working against their own best
interest. I think they're so caught up in "opposition" mode, that nothing
seems to penetrate. Several are playing to their core base, which is
tiny.
There's no upside, and they haven't figured it out yet. They're in the
political wilderness, and I'm hopeful that they will emerge someday. We
need
at least two strong parties in this country.

That's it, that is your answer? You have no answer as with most of your
talking points, that's just what they are.. Crazy indeed...


Well, what you're explanation? They're not even working in their own
self-interest, as far as reelection goes. All we hear is no, no, no.

Sounds to me like you're just another cowardly sockpuppet...


--
Nom=de=Plume

The Obamacare Bill passed...
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:33:26 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

You're right. They're not going to cut the entitlements. They're going
after
fraud, waste, and abuse.

The last president who had any success with that was Eisenhower.

I agree there is plenty of fraud waste and abuse in Medicare. Miami,
right across the swamp from me is ground zero for that.
The problem is, when you streamline administration and do what you can
to speed up payments you create loopholes a crook can drive a truck
through. One of the reasons insurance companies spend more for
administration is they spend more time processing claims and
investigating for fraud.
When they looked into the Miami fraud cases, what they found was the
government was paying the bill, then checking to see if it was valid.
By the time they figured out they were robbed, the crook was long
gone, packed up and moved down the road to scam them again under a
different name.

Personally I think we should have an exception to the "cruel and
unusual punishment" ban for people who steal from the government ;-)


Hard to argue with the latter, certainly.

I'm sure you would ;-)

I suppose I would disagree with it myself if it really came down to it
but I do think a lot of people are scamming the government and very
little ever happens to them.
Federal prisons are packed with pot farmers and scammers get a walk.


Well certainly, I was speaking metaphorically of course. It really burns me
up that some of the scammers get a walk... brings out the worst in me (and
I'm sure many). One of my friends defended a pot store during the previous
admin's Federal crackdown. It was really a sad case. They were just trying
to help people and barely making any money. The arrest/closure pretty much
ruined them financially.


--
Nom=de=Plume

The Obamacare Bill passed...
 

On 12/23/09 1:00 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
In ,
says...

wrote in message
...
In ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:09:10 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:53:16 -0500, John H

wrote:

...because a few Dems showed their true colors. For enough money
they
could be bought. Thankfully, Olympia Snowe showed a little bit of
integrity.

"Reid cut numerous last-minute deals to get the votes he needed
and
powerful Democrats also inserted home-state provisions in a
383-page
package of amendments Reid filed this weekend to the 2,074-page
bill.

Among other items, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus,
D-Mont., included a provision allowing residents of the town of
Libby,
Mont., who are suffering asbestos-related illnesses from a mining
operation to get Medicare benefits. Nelson won a list of benefits
for
Nebraska including a commitment for the federal government to pick
up
the full tab of an expansion of Medicaid. And Sen. Christopher
Dodd,
D-Conn., who faces a difficult re-election, inserted a $100
million
item for construction of a university hospital that his spokesman
said
he hopes to claim for the University of Connecticut."

And Nelson said he couldn't be bought. Right.

http://tinyurl.com/yl3wxz7

They didn't really pass anything. The vote last night just cut off
the
debate. (it was simply a cloture vote)
It does show that the senate has the votes when the house finds
something they can agree to.

We have yet to see if house Democrats will go along with a bill
that
has no public option and some other things they want.

This is certainly a budget buster bill, no matter what the house
does.
I just wish my Nelson had the juice of the Nebraska one. Lee
County
says Medicaid will be costing us another 1.2 million. I guess
another
fire house will have to close.


Nope. According to the CBO it'll save about $120B in the first 10
years.

That all depends on which CBO study you are talking about and which
assumptions are true. They are planning on cuts to Medicare that
will
never happen for starters. The other thing is ther feds are dumping
some of this cost off to states so it is not on the federal budget.

I am still not convinced any of this will actually make it to the
president's desk. They still have to talk the house into the bill
the
senate came up with and the reality is the senate hasn't really
passed
the bill themselves yet. The vote the other night was just to cut
off
debate. All it will take is for one democrat to waver and we could
be
right back at looking for 60 again.
That is the reason the republicans delayed the vote. The country
will
get 3 days to actually read this bill and call their senators.
It will probably still get passed in the senate but the house has
big
changes to accept from what they passed.


Yes, it depends on the final bill, but to claim that it'll increase
costs
is
nuts. It won't. Everyone relies on the CBO, yet the Republicans just
ignore
it when it suits them. They're delaying it because they can't accept
that
there's a need for action. They're obstructionists who don't give a
damn
about the people they serve.

Certainly, the Democrats have their own problems, but that doesn't
excuse
the Republicans behavior, which is despicable.

Well, I see you are still here;) As I redo my filters, please answer me
one question. What possible motive or reason would republicans have to
do what they knew was wrong for the people they serve? This is a nice
talking point, but really, where is the up side for them?


I don't know. That's the mystery. They're working against their own best
interest. I think they're so caught up in "opposition" mode, that nothing
seems to penetrate. Several are playing to their core base, which is
tiny.
There's no upside, and they haven't figured it out yet. They're in the
political wilderness, and I'm hopeful that they will emerge someday. We
need
at least two strong parties in this country.

That's it, that is your answer? You have no answer as with most of your
talking points, that's just what they are.. Crazy indeed...


Well, what you're explanation? They're not even working in their own
self-interest, as far as reelection goes. All we hear is no, no, no.

Sounds to me like you're just another cowardly sockpuppet...



One wonders why "S" cares about this issue, since he doesn't have health
insurance for himself, and recently ran up a $25000 bill at a local
hospital he has no intention of paying.

The Obamacare Bill passed...
 

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 10:01:11 -0500, S wrote:
?

I don't know. That's the mystery. They're working against their own best
interest. I think they're so caught up in "opposition" mode, that nothing
seems to penetrate. Several are playing to their core base, which is tiny.
There's no upside, and they haven't figured it out yet. They're in the
political wilderness, and I'm hopeful that they will emerge someday. We need
at least two strong parties in this country.

That's it, that is your answer? You have no answer as with most of your
talking points, that's just what they are.. Crazy indeed...

Some independents feel that they act like spoiled children that pout and
refuse to play because it isn't their football. I believe many independent
voters look at them as just unable to compromise and unable to govern.

Most of those to the right here in Rec.Boats feel the big story is
climate change. It's the economy. The conservitives have overlooked that,
but after all, they were the key players in overlooking that to boost the
wars and are now to blame for screwing the economy.

I can only explain it to you , I can't learn it for you.