For the children's sake...
 

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:23:00 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 10, 1:31*pm, jps wrote:
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:25:26 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:





On Dec 10, 7:45*am, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 03:34:23 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 9, 10:54 pm, jps wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:30:10 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 9, 10:06 pm, jps wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:39:26 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 9, 9:35 pm, Tim wrote:
On Dec 9, 9:28 pm, jps wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:59:57 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 9, 8:53 pm, "Don White" wrote:
wrote in message

. ..

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:18:45 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:44:43 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2009/11...wi-bill-compou...

NY just passed a new law to protect kids. Now it is a felon, to drive
DWI/DUI with children 15 years of age or less on board.

That ought to help save lives!

George Orwell just wasn't too far off...

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You object to having a legal requirement to drive sober??

Yes.

--

Boy..if this is you Waylon...you're really out to lunch here.
Maybe you should volunteer some time in a major trauma center in Atlanta.

Don. I'll vouch for him, II know this guy. he lives in an adjacent
county of mine. only about 40 mi. away. I guarantee you, he's not
Waylon.

I think I know what his point is, but I won't go into it. it's no
biggie.

Uh oh. You belong to a church group together or do your kids play
baseball against one another?

Both.

Actually, not really. we attend separate churches, however we share
close to the same beliefs.

if by chance J. had kids the same age as mine who were active in
sports, then they probably did compete with each other

Uh oh, spilled the beans and feeling like you overstepped?

No.

He'd have done well as a church official during the crusades. Don't
know what he's like live but he sure comes off as the true heir to
William F. Buckley, minus the intellect.

you're probably right.

Yes, I thought so.

Lets refresh my origional post, shall we?

"in you're eyes you're probably right. But you see only what you wish.
"

I wouldn't bother, Tim. *You're arguing with a sophist.

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- Show quoted text -

A sophist.

I'd say that's being complimentary.

Ooooo, a sophist. *That's so demeaning and sub-Christian of you!!!

not really.


You're on the side of a serial manipulator who's only concern is
wiggling his way to a semantic victory, irrespective of the point at
hand. *A slipperly Christian.- Hide quoted text -


Really? That's some accusation, now. and where do you find evidence
of that?

In the vast majority of the arguments he makes.

It's called sidestepping. He's an apprentice so it's easily detected
and no, I'm not going to cite examples. I'm not into arguing to prove
my point. It's just my opinion and, as far as I'm concerned, that
means it's fact.

I learned that from Bills McKee and O'Reilly.

For the children's sake...
 

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 22:08:16 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:30:43 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:18:45 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:44:43 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2009/11...y.aspx?ref=rss


NY just passed a new law to protect kids. Now it is a felon, to drive
DWI/DUI with children 15 years of age or less on board.

That ought to help save lives!

George Orwell just wasn't too far off...

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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You object to having a legal requirement to drive sober??

Yes.

Why?


Good question!!

Crickets...

For the children's sake...
 

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:23:00 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

Really? That's some accusation, now. and where do you find evidence
of that?

Tim, I'm sure you've probably heard Robert Heinlein's quote about what
happens when you try to teach a pig to sing ??

http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/754263/robert-heinlein/never-try-to-teach-a-pig-to-sing-it-wastes-your-time

The kill file is your friend, and as a bonus the rest of us get a
break also.

For the children's sake...
 

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:14:48 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:23:00 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

Really? That's some accusation, now. and where do you find evidence
of that?

Tim, I'm sure you've probably heard Robert Heinlein's quote about what
happens when you try to teach a pig to sing ??

http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/754263/robert-heinlein/never-try-to-teach-a-pig-to-sing-it-wastes-your-time

The kill file is your friend, and as a bonus the rest of us get a
break also.

Tim obviously has a broader palette than some. I'm guessing he could
find a fine echo chamber at church if that was his preference.

For the children's sake...
 

Don White wrote:

Around here, they still call driving a 'privlege', and I would hope that the
license showes that the driver had the skill/knowledge to pass the
requirements at one time.
Maybe there should be re-tests every 5-10 years...at least for those 60&
over.
This comes up every time someone in their '80s kills a younger person in a
traffic 'accident'. Here in the city that usually means a vehicle/pedestrian
encounter as often as not with the victim in a crosswalk.



If they all drove Rav4's no one could be injured.

Rob

For the children's sake...
 

On Dec 10, 5:14*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:23:00 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

Really? That's some accusation, now. and *where do you find evidence
of that?

Tim, I'm sure you've probably heard Robert Heinlein's quote about what
happens when you try to teach a pig to sing ??

http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/754263/robert-heinlein/never-try-to-...

The kill file is your friend, and as a bonus the rest of us get a
break also.

Good one, Wayne.

Thanks!

For the children's sake...
 

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:47:54 -0600, wrote:

To state the case generically does not do the topic justice. There is
a distinction here between retributive justice and preventive
sanctions.

Ok - the first is criminal and the second is misnamed - I believe you
meant to say civil sanctions as a means to prevent disorder.

The question is which application respects an individual's
personal autonomy and responsibility.

Neither do.

Preventive sanctions presume that the individual must be
compelled by legislation to be civically, morally, and ethically
responsible. In this sense, the individual's autonomy must
necessarily be reduced for what is considered the social good.

I don't understand the difference as you state it. Both are considered
deterrants to further criminal or uncivil behavior. One is based in
criminal law (in fact, it is the original codification of social
behavior as presented in the Law of Moses and/or the Code of
Hammurabi) and the other is simply an extention of criminal sanctions
into the civil arena.

IMO, this stands in contrast to the deference given to personal
autonomy and liberty by the earliest lawmakers in this country. We've
become to conditioned over time, as a society, to accept the utility
of preventive sanctions at the cost of personal liberty, and this to
the point that a perspective such as mine is considered savagely
extreme.

I wouldn't say "extreme" - I would say misguided. 18th century
jurisprudence stayed firmly entrenched in the arena of retributive
justice - hence debtors prisons, lack of women's rights, cororeal
punishment for minor infractions and such. Most issues considered as
civil matters in today's society were dealt with as criminal in the
18th century with the corresponding "justice". The entire
Constitution and Bill of Rights is nothing more than an experiment in
socially engineering an entirely new legal and governance construct.
You'd really have to explain that a little more because I don't
understand your thesis.

I don't think my perspective would have seemed extreme in
this country's youth. Retributive justice does not presuppose that
the individual must be necessarily be constrained for the good of
society.

Huh? That's the whole point of retributive justice if I remember my,
admittedly minor, education in civil law.

If you do get the time, I'll be very interested in what you have to
say.

For the children's sake...
 

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:49:52 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

If you do get the time, I'll be very interested in what you have to
say.

Hello?

For the children's sake...
 

On Dec 10, 11:09*am, "Don White" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

...
On Dec 10, 8:28 am, "Don White" wrote:





"Tim" wrote in message

....
On Dec 9, 9:28 pm, jps wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:59:57 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 9, 8:53 pm, "Don White" wrote:
wrote in message

. ..

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:18:45 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:44:43 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2009/11...wi-bill-compou...

NY just passed a new law to protect kids. Now it is a felon, to
drive
DWI/DUI with children 15 years of age or less on board.

That ought to help save lives!

George Orwell just wasn't too far off...

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

You object to having a legal requirement to drive sober??

Yes.

--

Boy..if this is you Waylon...you're really out to lunch here.
Maybe you should volunteer some time in a major trauma center in
Atlanta.

Don. I'll vouch for him, II know this guy. he lives in an adjacent
county of mine. only about 40 mi. away. I guarantee you, he's not
Waylon.

I think I know what his point is, but I won't go into it. it's no
biggie.

Uh oh. You belong to a church group together or do your kids play
baseball against one another?

Both.

**********************************

He may be a buddy, but I sense that you are a reasonably sensible , well
adjusted person.
Would you want this character running the roads drunk when your kids are
driving back from a social or sporting event?
The Mounties and city cops hold random traffic stops here..especially at
this time of year, to try and weed out the drunks, the unlicensed &
uninsured and those driving unsafe vehicles. I say the more they catch,
the
safer it is for my family.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I try to be a person of reason, Don. but well, it's been a proven
point that you don't need a license to be able to drive a car.

*I'll try to convey my views but theres a chance I'll be misconstrued.

*but *I believe there should be stiff penalties for DUI/DWI, and I
believe there should be insurance on the vehicle, And it is proper to
have current tags on the auto's plates. But really what good is a
"drivers license?" except of ID purposes?Does a drivers license prove
you are able to drive a car? Not really. I know of people who have a
license in good standing and are horrible behind the wheel. And
there's a lot of people with revoked or suspended licenses who
continually drive.

So, really, what good does a drivers license do?

************************************************** **********

Around here, they still call driving a 'privlege', and I would hope that the
license showes that the driver had the skill/knowledge to pass the
requirements at one time.
Maybe there should be re-tests every 5-10 years...at least for those 60 &
over.
This comes up every time someone in their '80s kills a younger person in a
traffic 'accident'. Here in the city that usually means a vehicle/pedestrian
encounter as often as not with the victim in a crosswalk.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seeing how you love to correct others, what in hell is a "showes"
dummy?

For the children's sake...
 

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:56:43 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:49:52 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

If you do get the time, I'll be very interested in what you have to
say.

Hello?

You'll have to forgive me, Tom. I hope to get back to this sometime
soon. I'm in the Medicare Advantage open enrollment period, and I'm
overwhelmed with appointments. I may have time tomorrow if I can
finish up at a local mall early enough. A thousand pardons, Effendi.
:)

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