snip
And because they reported it, it must be true.

Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have
personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. This is in rather
sharp contrast with much of what has been said by people of the PNAC
persuasion.

Lets see, the story talks about the 1980's. Even Iraq admitted to having
WOMD in the
1990's in their reports to the UN.

So where did they go Mark?

They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth. You do
seem to think a lot of your opinion about how clueless the inspectors are.
Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid
inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you
want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow it
to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are
destroyed.

Have you been sleeping through the last twenty or so years? I am not
normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not
merit
the work of personally answering:

Translation: I am not able to.

Your provocation does not change the amount of effort I care to expend on
answering you. You could take my statement face value and realize that I
really don't think that responding to you is worth a lot of effort. Now if
you showed any signs that you have done the work and actually understood the
issues it might be a different answer.

When you offer a thought provoking post, I will think about it and get back
to you. I am still working though your post on the veracity biblical texts.

Mark Browne

"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:by%8b.442621$o%2.199255@sccrnsc02...
snip
And because they reported it, it must be true.

Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have
personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. This is in rather
sharp contrast with much of what has been said by people of the PNAC
persuasion.

Lets see, the story talks about the 1980's. Even Iraq admitted to having
WOMD in the
1990's in their reports to the UN.

So where did they go Mark?

They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth.

So how did Saddam earn credibility in your eyes? Was it his rape and torture chambers
or his mass killings of his own citizens?

You do
seem to think a lot of your opinion about how clueless the inspectors are.

Where did I say or infer that?

Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid
inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you
want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow it
to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are
destroyed.

How do you borrow a shovel to another person Mark?

Regardless, even Hans Blix thought the WOMD existed as late as February of this year:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/14/sprj.irq.un/

"In their third progress report since U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441 was passed
in November, inspectors told the council they had not found any weapons of mass
destruction, but they urged Iraq to be more cooperative.

Hans Blix, executive chairman of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection
Commission, and Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy
Agency, said they were still investigating and had not ruled out the possibility that
Iraq does possess chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

Blix said perhaps the most important inspection issue is determining what happened to
stores of anthrax, VX nerve agent and long-range missiles that Iraq previously was
known to have.

One document suggests that "some 1,000 tons of chemical agent were unaccounted for,"
but Baghdad has begun to provide more information that could help lead to answers, Blix
added.

He said it is Baghdad's responsibility -- "not the task of inspectors" -- to find such
evidence, he said.

He said Iraq's al-Samoud 2 model of missile exceeds the range of 93 miles (150
kilometers) allowed by U.N. resolutions. Iraqi officials have said the missile does not
yet have a guidance system, which would reduce its range.

Blix also said a small number of empty chemical munitions had been found, "which should
have been declared and destroyed."


Have you been sleeping through the last twenty or so years? I am not
normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does not
merit
the work of personally answering:

Translation: I am not able to.

"Jim -" wrote in message
et...

"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:by%8b.442621$o%2.199255@sccrnsc02...
snip
And because they reported it, it must be true.

Sounds good to me; it does dovetail rather nicely with what I have
personally experienced when traveling in the middle east. This is in
rather
sharp contrast with much of what has been said by people of the PNAC
persuasion.

Lets see, the story talks about the 1980's. Even Iraq admitted to
having
WOMD in the
1990's in their reports to the UN.

So where did they go Mark?

They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth.

So how did Saddam earn credibility in your eyes? Was it his rape and
torture chambers
or his mass killings of his own citizens?

I am not aware Saddam raped people but in any case I do not think the poster
was supporting Saddam Hussein. Where did he say that? Do you believe that if
I do not support you then I must be supporting your enemy?
By the way the US DID support Saddam. Rumsfeld oversaw the selling of
Anthrax to Iraq. And theUS supported other regiems who tortured raped an
killed people en masse. Suharto in Indonesia and Pinochet in chile spring to
mind but there are many more.


[snip]


Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid
inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you
want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to
borrow it
to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons
are
destroyed.

How do you borrow a shovel to another person Mark?

When you cant tackle the arguemt do you resort ot attacking the person?



Regardless, even Hans Blix thought the WOMD existed as late as February of
this year:



http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/14/sprj.irq.un/

"In their third progress report since U.N. Security Council Resolution
1441 was passed
in November, inspectors told the council they had not found any weapons of
mass
destruction, but they urged Iraq to be more cooperative.

Hans Blix, executive chairman of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and
Inspection
Commission, and Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International
Atomic Energy
Agency, said they were still investigating and had not ruled out the
possibility that
Iraq does possess chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

Here is the original: http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/blix14Febasdel.htm

Since we arrived in Iraq, we have conducted more than 400 inspections
covering more than 300 sites. All inspections were performed without
notice, and access was almost always provided promptly. In no case have we
seen convincing evidence that the Iraqi side knew in advance that the
inspectors were coming.


The inspections have taken place throughout Iraq at industrial
sites, ammunition depots, research centres, universities, presidential
sites, mobile laboratories, private houses, missile production facilities,
military camps and agricultural sites. At all sites which had been
inspected before 1998, re-baselining activities were performed. This
included the identification of the function and contents of each building,
new or old, at a site. It also included verification of previously tagged
equipment, application of seals and tags, taking samples and discussions
with the site personnel regarding past and present activities. At certain
sites, ground-penetrating radar was used to look for underground structures
or buried equipment.



Through the inspections conducted so far, we have obtained a
good knowledge of the industrial and scientific landscape of Iraq, as well
as of its missile capability but, as before, we do not know every cave and
corner. Inspections are effectively helping to bridge the gap in knowledge
that arose due to the absence of inspections between December 1998 and
November 2002.


More than 200 chemical and more than 100 biological samples have
been collected at different sites. Three-quarters of these have been
screened using our own analytical laboratory capabilities at the Baghdad
Centre (BOMVIC). The results to date have been consistent with Iraq's
declarations.

....

How much, if any, is left of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and related
proscribed items and programmes? So far, UNMOVIC has not found any such
weapons, only a small number of empty chemical munitions, which should have
been declared and destroyed. Another matter - and one of great
significance - is that many proscribed weapons and items are not accounted
for. To take an example, a document, which Iraq provided, suggested to us
that some 1,000 tonnes of chemical agent were "unaccounted for". One must
not jump to the conclusion that they exist. However, that possibility is
also not excluded. If they exist, they should be presented for destruction.
If they do not exist, credible evidence to that effect should be presented.


We are fully aware that many governmental intelligence
organizations are convinced and assert that proscribed weapons, items and
programmes continue to exist. The US Secretary of State presented material
in support of this conclusion. Governments have many sources of information
that are not available to inspectors. Inspectors, for their part, must base
their reports only on evidence, which they can, themselves, examine and
present publicly. Without evidence, confidence cannot arise.

[end qoutes]


Blix said perhaps the most important inspection issue is determining what
happened to
stores of anthrax, VX nerve agent and long-range missiles that Iraq
previously was
known to have.


So where are they? And if the US invaded Iraq for this (and they SWORE BLIND
that the WMD existed) why haven't they left now?


One document suggests that "some 1,000 tons of chemical agent were
unaccounted for,"
but Baghdad has begun to provide more information that could help lead to
answers, Blix
added.


Is this doccument part of the "evidence " the UK governmnet made up?

[snip]

He said Iraq's al-Samoud 2 model of missile exceeds the range of 93 miles
(150
kilometers) allowed by U.N. resolutions. Iraqi officials have said the
missile does not
yet have a guidance system, which would reduce its range.


They didn't exceed the range AFAIK. Can you prove they did?


Blix also said a small number of empty chemical munitions had been found,
"which should
have been declared and destroyed."

Look! The US invaded after promising loads and loads of WMD terrorist
training camps etc. They didn't find any. so why dont they leave?



Have you been sleeping through the last twenty or so years? I am not
normally a fan of clip and paste politics, but your question does
not
merit
the work of personally answering:

Translation: I am not able to.


Would that be the last twenty years when the US moved an Army into
fundamentalist (women and jews cant vote) Saudi Arabia and sold Anthrax to
iraq?

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:11:03 GMT, "Mark Browne"
wrote:


They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth. You do
seem to think a lot of your opinion about how clueless the inspectors are.
Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid
inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you
want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow it
to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are
destroyed.

Ah..Mark..there is no evidence, other than a claim by Saddam, that
they were destroyed. A paper trail. Period. And the paper trail itself
had serious holes in it, given a number of WMD that simply did not
appear in the claim, that the UN had indeed verified the Iraqis had in
their arsenal.

Gunner
"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:11:03 GMT, "Mark Browne"
wrote:


They said they destroyed them, and so far, it seems to be the truth. You
do
seem to think a lot of your opinion about how clueless the inspectors
are.
Perhaps you wish to go over to the middle east and show these stupid
inspectors how to search of the "missing" WMDs. I have a shovel, if you
want to go over and dig up the missing weapons I would be happy to borrow
it
to you. Until then, the preponderance of evidence is that the weapons are
destroyed.

Ah..Mark..there is no evidence, other than a claim by Saddam, that
they were destroyed. A paper trail. Period. And the paper trail itself
had serious holes in it, given a number of WMD that simply did not
appear in the claim, that the UN had indeed verified the Iraqis had in
their arsenal.

Ah gunner. If I accuse you of murder and you end up in court and the
prosecution claim loads and loads of evidence is it then up to you to
produce proof that you did not commit the murder? Or is it that you are
assumed not to have done so and the prosecution have to actually produce the
evidence? So where is this evidence? "I swrae your honour Exibhit A was
there only last week" is not evidence.