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Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man made:
|
Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man made:
|
Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man made:
|
Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man made:
"BAR" wrote in message
. .. In article , says... No, it's not proving a negative. Show me your "science" that states that A) Global Warming is not occuring Aren't we in cooling phase. My HAVC system only puts out hot or cold, not both at the same time. B) Man's pollution has no affect on global warming. Everytime I exhale or fart am I polluting? Yes. Every time. I'm sure there's a treatment to minimize the latter. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man made:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:14:22 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:11:58 -0500, NotNow wrote: Please read completely. Don't kill the messenger, don't give anecdotal crap, but respond with good, solid science to refute each of the points. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0219-01.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific...al_oscillation I'll condense it for you. 1750: PDO displays an unusually strong oscillation.[2] 1905: After a strong swing, PDO changed to a "warm" phase. 1946: PDO changed to a "cool" phase. [See the blue section of the graph on the right] 1977: PDO changed to a "warm" phase.[3] 1998: PDO index showed several years of "cool" values, but did not remain in that pattern.[4] 2008: The early stages of a cool phase of the basin-wide Pacific Decadal Oscillation Sorry dude - hit the send button a little fast. Click on the Senate Testimony link. http://windfarms.wordpress.com/2008/...tions-not-co2/ Here's another - a little more condensed, but fairly accurate. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=aU.evtnk6DPo# Here's a key point to keep in mind. The relationship between global temperature and solar activity is confused by the difference between global temperature and surface temperature. Global temperature is the average temperature of the oceans - simple fact because they are Earth's heat sink. As we've all know ocean temperatures are not evenly distributed. The Atlantic and Pacific oceans both experience oscillations, where unusually warm or cold waters take turns at the ocean surface. It's very similar to lake water turnover in fact. Lake Lanier, one that you're very familiar with, exhibits this effect as well. This surface water is a primary determinant of the earth's surface temperature, so the ocean oscillations cause surface temperature to oscillate with respect to the actual local and/or global temperature. We also need to account for the largest source of raw energy which is the Sun. It's no accident that, coincident with normal warm/cold cycles, that the increasedecrease in sunspots and solar prominences, mass coronal ejections and solar flares. The high magnetic energy components of these various solar events are very coincident with Earth weather and weather patterns. One of the more interesting studies done in 2007, which I can't find on the web but I'll keep looking - at the minimum I'll be glad to send you a copy of it, studied a solar event that occured in 1998 and it's effect on weather patterns. It was a major mass ejection that caused an unusual wet/dry pattern in the Northern Hemisphere. There is also some interest in what are called Milankovitch Cycles - basically eccentricities in Earth's orbit around the sun. Oddly, these cycles also seem to correspond to warm/cold cycles and long term Earth weather patterns. Ok, your turn - let's talk some science. Is that what caused the various warm periods and cold periods (greenland settlements, little ice age etc)? I've been wondering what caused those cycles. del |
Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man made:
wrote in message
... On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:10:26 -0500, John H. wrote: I agree with you there but the CO2 trend actually goes back 8000 years and tracks population growth as closely as any other metric. As I say, the upcoming thermonuclear war when the western economies fail will fix all of that. It will be damned cold here for a few hundred years. We may even have glaciers coming down across Canada and Western Europe again. How do you expect that nuclear war to start? Do you expect us to attack China, or China to attack us? Or will Europe come after us? Or will it be a country like Pakistan? I think we are going to be so economically stressed that we will have to cut back on our foreign military adventures and stop being the middle east policeman. A war will start over there that will quickly go nuclear, the rest of the world will be sucked in to try and stop it and there you go. Where does it start? There are already 3 known nuclear powers in that area and perhaps a couple more knocking on the door. Who know if there are any Soviet weapons on the market that could pop up anywhere. . Take your pick. In real life, it won't take many "nuclear volcanos" to turn back the global warming clock. Compared to even the most crude devices we have now, Nagasaki was just a firecracker. We also knew enough to do air bursts in Japan. I wouldn't count on the current bunch of up and coming nuclear powers to be that sophisticated. Ground bursts are a whole lot dirtier. The only way to prevent a nuclear war among other countries, such as Pak. and India is to be involved. We don't need to be the policeman, but we do need to be a fair arbiter of the truth. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man made:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:29:14 -0600, "Del Cecchi"
wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:14:22 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:11:58 -0500, NotNow wrote: Please read completely. Don't kill the messenger, don't give anecdotal crap, but respond with good, solid science to refute each of the points. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0219-01.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific...al_oscillation I'll condense it for you. 1750: PDO displays an unusually strong oscillation.[2] 1905: After a strong swing, PDO changed to a "warm" phase. 1946: PDO changed to a "cool" phase. [See the blue section of the graph on the right] 1977: PDO changed to a "warm" phase.[3] 1998: PDO index showed several years of "cool" values, but did not remain in that pattern.[4] 2008: The early stages of a cool phase of the basin-wide Pacific Decadal Oscillation Sorry dude - hit the send button a little fast. Click on the Senate Testimony link. http://windfarms.wordpress.com/2008/...tions-not-co2/ Here's another - a little more condensed, but fairly accurate. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=aU.evtnk6DPo# Here's a key point to keep in mind. The relationship between global temperature and solar activity is confused by the difference between global temperature and surface temperature. Global temperature is the average temperature of the oceans - simple fact because they are Earth's heat sink. As we've all know ocean temperatures are not evenly distributed. The Atlantic and Pacific oceans both experience oscillations, where unusually warm or cold waters take turns at the ocean surface. It's very similar to lake water turnover in fact. Lake Lanier, one that you're very familiar with, exhibits this effect as well. This surface water is a primary determinant of the earth's surface temperature, so the ocean oscillations cause surface temperature to oscillate with respect to the actual local and/or global temperature. We also need to account for the largest source of raw energy which is the Sun. It's no accident that, coincident with normal warm/cold cycles, that the increasedecrease in sunspots and solar prominences, mass coronal ejections and solar flares. The high magnetic energy components of these various solar events are very coincident with Earth weather and weather patterns. One of the more interesting studies done in 2007, which I can't find on the web but I'll keep looking - at the minimum I'll be glad to send you a copy of it, studied a solar event that occured in 1998 and it's effect on weather patterns. It was a major mass ejection that caused an unusual wet/dry pattern in the Northern Hemisphere. There is also some interest in what are called Milankovitch Cycles - basically eccentricities in Earth's orbit around the sun. Oddly, these cycles also seem to correspond to warm/cold cycles and long term Earth weather patterns. Ok, your turn - let's talk some science. Is that what caused the various warm periods and cold periods (greenland settlements, little ice age etc)? I've been wondering what caused those cycles. Normal variations. All oceans have periods of oscillation. What causes these oscillations is primarily solar cycles and orbital extremes. There has been some research that indicates that even minor variations in "top spin" of Earth's axial rotation can cause fluctuations can move the major ocean currents by a couple of hundred miles temporarily. There have been times when you can spot tropical fish, of the sort one sees in the Caribbean, swimming around Fort Adams at the mouth of Narragansett Bay - all due to a shift in the Gulf Stream further inshore. One of the big concerns now is about Arctic Ice and it's so called "retreat". While the global warming crowd is pushing the concept of greenhouse effect, and is the idea that is being pushed hard by the alarmists, some research suggests that this too is part of a normal long term pattern when older ice is replaced by newer ice. Of course this occurs on a larger time scale than 20/30 years. When you investigate a litter in terms of solar activity and Earth's own orbital variations in obliquity and eccentricity due to precession. There also is some newer research into insolation (INcoming SOLar radiATION) variations. Previously, it was thought because of our deep and thick atmosphere, the insolation effect wasn't as pronounced as it would be on planets like Mars and/or Jupiter, but that may be a false assumption given the current solar minimum and it's obvious effects on tropospheric weather patterns. Admittedly, pollution does have some effect at the surface, but it's a huge deep atmosphere with lots going on - the pollution from emissions may be exactly that - pollution with affects humans in other ways, but have little to no effect on the greenhouse effect. I suspect we're going to see some very interesting results very soon in atmospheric modeling as there are some new ways of analyzing deep field data sets coming on line very soon. The atmosphere may not be as complex to model as previously thought and these new techniques may sound the death knell for global warming. Wouldn't that be amusing. :) |
Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man
On Nov 5, 6:49*pm, BAR wrote:
In article , says... No, it's not proving a negative. Show me your "science" that states that A) Global Warming is not occuring Aren't we in cooling phase. My HAVC system only puts out hot or cold, not both at the same time. B) Man's pollution has no affect on global warming. Everytime I exhale or fart am I polluting? Are you really that ****ing stupid? |
Okay, for the few that still thinks global warming isn't man made:
wrote in message
... On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:54:23 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:10:26 -0500, John H. wrote: I agree with you there but the CO2 trend actually goes back 8000 years and tracks population growth as closely as any other metric. As I say, the upcoming thermonuclear war when the western economies fail will fix all of that. It will be damned cold here for a few hundred years. We may even have glaciers coming down across Canada and Western Europe again. How do you expect that nuclear war to start? Do you expect us to attack China, or China to attack us? Or will Europe come after us? Or will it be a country like Pakistan? I think we are going to be so economically stressed that we will have to cut back on our foreign military adventures and stop being the middle east policeman. A war will start over there that will quickly go nuclear, the rest of the world will be sucked in to try and stop it and there you go. Where does it start? There are already 3 known nuclear powers in that area and perhaps a couple more knocking on the door. Who know if there are any Soviet weapons on the market that could pop up anywhere. . Take your pick. In real life, it won't take many "nuclear volcanos" to turn back the global warming clock. Compared to even the most crude devices we have now, Nagasaki was just a firecracker. We also knew enough to do air bursts in Japan. I wouldn't count on the current bunch of up and coming nuclear powers to be that sophisticated. Ground bursts are a whole lot dirtier. The only way to prevent a nuclear war among other countries, such as Pak. and India is to be involved. We don't need to be the policeman, but we do need to be a fair arbiter of the truth. I bet one of the parties will be Israel. Pakistan and India have hammered out a working peace, really only arguing about a little patch neither are willing to die over. The real center point in a nuclear war in the middle east will be Israel. The only question would be, who shoots first. If the US was economically or politically not strong enough to back Israel up in a conventional war, they might resort to a nuclear counter attack. If that spilled over into Russia on Iran's northern border, it could really get ugly fast. I bet you're right if Iran gets too close to having a nuke. I don't think it would start as a conventional war. It might start as a pre-emptive strike at nuclear facilities in Iran, but if the Israelis do what they did with Iraq's powerplant, then nothing might escalate. But, I don't believe that would be easy to do in Iran, since they've got their facilities spread out all over and I believe they're hardened sites. -- Nom=de=Plume |
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