On Nov 3, 1:57*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:27*pm, NotNow wrote:





Tosk wrote:
In article fef40ffb-ca78-4a34-97fe-1f5ba4ada116
@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com, says...
On Nov 3, 7:10 am, Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:41:32 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c....View&FileStor...
So as a man who studies this type of thing in much more depth than I,
what do you think of our "significant" number of BOEs as compared to all
other countries with the exception of Russia?
Noted that the vast majority of our reserves are in coal.
Two things come immediately to mind.
One - we need to make more use of the proven coal reserves up to and
including gasification, liquification and burning. *We need to work on
clean coal technology and CO2 sequestration by allowing more pilot
plants and research into various techniques. That's where we seem to
be failing miserably.
A recent example is what's happened in Lindon, NJ. *I forget the
company, but they wanted to build a 750 megawatt coal fired station,
sequester the CO2 by pumping it offshore into a salt dome where it
woud stay permanently locked up. *The technology is available now and
it seems like a good concept. Unfortunetly, the Enviromentalists are
creating havoc with the plan to the point where it probably will be
abandoned thus losing the facility and needed power generation.
Two - we need to start exploring and drilling off on our own to see
what may, or may not, be easily accessible onshore, inshore and
offshore. *There are some areas off New Jersey and California that
appear to have the correct geological formations (domes, salt domes
and such) to contain easily recoverable oil - some think the equal of
all that Arabian Peninsula has ever contained, but we aren't allowed
to drill for various reasons - mostly political. And it's not like new
discoveries are impossible - consider Brazil's Guari and Tupi fields
which are recent discoveries - it's out there, we just have to find
it.
Here's a list for you to consider - the amount of fossil fuel needed
to produce 1,000,000 BTUs.
Natural Gas: 1,000 cubic feet
Coal: 83.34 pounds @ 12,000 Btu/pound * * * * * * * * *
Propane: 10.917 gallons @ 91,000 Btu/gallon
Gasoline: 8.0 gallons @125,000 Btu/gallon
Fuel Oil #2: *7.194 gallons @ 139,000 Btu/gallon
Fuel Oil #6: 6.67 gallons @ 150,000 Btu/gallon
You'd need a lot of wind farms and solar panels to produce similar
results to fossil fuels.
Nice summary....we have some work to do, particularly on the political
front.
What cracks me up is the idea that a 100 by 100 foot fenced off area for
drilling might hurt migrating animals, but 40 acres of solar panels is
just fine...

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If a fence is put across a migration route, that's totally different
from a solar array that is off of the ground.

Really, these are "off the ground" enough to not effect migration?
Bull...

This is not far enough off the ground for migration, acres and acres....

http://www.treehugger.com/solar-farm-array-bavaria.jpg

http://teeic.anl.gov/images/photos/Nrel_flatPV15539.jpg

http://green-gossip.com/wp-content/u...bhagats_solar-
array.jpg

http://images.publicradio.org/conten...6_solar-farm2_
33.jpg

Compared to this...

http://www.making-ripples.com/images...image013_2.jpg

http://www.questdrilling.com/images/index1.jpg

http://www.airphotona.com/stockimg/images/00198.jpg

http://www.valleyserver.com/images/R...web%20copy.jpg

You tell me which is more invasive.. Besides, do you know how toxic the
areas in china where they make these panels is?

Manufacturing in the U.S. and thus gaining jobs will fix that. What
could be more "invasive" than a fence built on a migration route? Next
you'll be trying to tell everyone that mining oil sands is good for the
environment.

Lovely site, isn't it?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...son.com/images....

I've spent more time on hundreds of drilling rigs in remote places in
the western USA than I care to remember. *The wildlife paid very
little attention to them. *In fact, one of the greatest dangers was
not from the drilling operations but from the hazard of hitting an
elk, deer or antelope while trying to get to the rig. *I've been on
rig sites that were abandoned and a month later in WY you could not
tell where it had been they were so good at replacing the terrain and
vegetation.
In AK, where the AK pipeline was a major controversy in the early 70s
with people worrying about its effect on wildlife, the wildlife
ignores it because it is built so they can walk under it. *Rig sites
are similar, animals ignore them and once the drill rig is gone with
the final pumps in place occupying only a few square feet ther eis no
effect at all on the animals.

Yes, they ignore the pipeline because it was built so that they COULD
walk under them. Many types of tundra animals use the EXACT same route
and have for thousands of years. I've been to many many drilling rigs
also. They are nasty, stinky, they use a lot of chemicals in the
process, and you can't tell me that wildlife would thrive in that
environment.

I have also flown at low altitude over arrays of wind turbines and was
appalled at how destructive they were to the environment. *Each
required a road to service the turbine regularly and the turbines were
like ugly blotches *on the *ridges. *By contrast, the average
producing oil well can barely be noticed even from low altitude and
gas wells are even more invisible.

So, gas and oilwells don't need servicing? Funny, every one I've ever
seen has a road going to it......

Large arrays of solar receivers are likely to be extremely destructive
to the local environment by blocking sunlight to the ground and
blocking air flow and generally being a permanent impediment to
wildlife movement. *By contrast, drilling operations are short lived
and a producing well is very inobtrusive.- Hide quoted text -

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Yes, that's true. I guess we should not think about any new
technology, just stick our heads in the sand and drill. Oh, and mine
oil sands so that the land can look like this:


http://tinyurl.com/yjdsyuo

Isn't that lovely?