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This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography,
and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker
wrote: "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said Uh huh.... Welllllll......... http://www.climatedepot.com/a/3515/P...global-warming "Key Excerpt: Observations of the Sun show that as for the increase in temperature, carbon dioxide is "not guilty" and as for what lies ahead in the upcoming decades, it is not catastrophic warming, but a global, and very prolonged, temperature drop." |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Oct 29, 3:44*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote: On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said Uh huh.... Welllllll......... http://www.climatedepot.com/a/3515/P...ientist-We-sho... "Key Excerpt: Observations of the Sun show that as for the increase in temperature, carbon dioxide is "not guilty" and as for what lies ahead in the upcoming decades, it is not catastrophic warming, but a global, and very prolonged, temperature drop." Right..... I know, I know, the ice is NOT melting. It's just disappearing, huh? |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
"Loogypicker" wrote in message
... On Oct 29, 3:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said Uh huh.... Welllllll......... http://www.climatedepot.com/a/3515/P...ientist-We-sho... "Key Excerpt: Observations of the Sun show that as for the increase in temperature, carbon dioxide is "not guilty" and as for what lies ahead in the upcoming decades, it is not catastrophic warming, but a global, and very prolonged, temperature drop." Right..... I know, I know, the ice is NOT melting. It's just disappearing, huh? You've got to get ice for cocktails from somewhere... -- Nom=de=Plume |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Oct 29, 3:18*pm, Tosk wrote:
In article 9e6ac9d7-4f1f-427a-b126- , says... This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CIENCE-US-CLIM... OTTAWA ? The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said Until we are serious about Nukes, and other options that won't serve to make Al Gore rich, you can say all you want, but I won't believe you are really serious about solving the problem...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That was kind of Harryesque! How do you know whether or not I'm serious about solving ANY given problem? |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
|
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
In article 2a536e6a-59a3-46f9-9ac0-
, says... On Oct 29, 3:18*pm, Tosk wrote: In article 9e6ac9d7-4f1f-427a-b126- , says... This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CIENCE-US-CLIM... OTTAWA ? The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said Until we are serious about Nukes, and other options that won't serve to make Al Gore rich, you can say all you want, but I won't believe you are really serious about solving the problem...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That was kind of Harryesque! How do you know whether or not I'm serious about solving ANY given problem? Cause you fight for it here every day... |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
Loogypicker wrote:
This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
"Jim" wrote in message
m... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. -- Nom=de=Plume |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message m... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Every time I see any discussion of Global Warming, it seems to be (my experience) the anti warming side telling us It's not happening. I don't ever remember telling them it was true, but now I am expected to. I don't think it's a discussion that will ever lead anywhere. I don't want to play. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message m... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
Jim wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote: "Jim" wrote in message m... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another. Actually it would be nice if facts were used by both sides in any debate. Unfortunately we disagree with the definition of a fact. Remembering from school, one side sees facts as something you manipulate to get what you want, to others, facts are facts and can't be changed. Lies and deception are good ways to manipulate facts. You see it all the time. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
Jim wrote:
Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another. I forgot, which side was it that came up with "Death Panels" in the health care debate? I'll agree that that side did use lies and deception. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
"Jim" wrote in message
m... nom=de=plume wrote: "Jim" wrote in message m... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Every time I see any discussion of Global Warming, it seems to be (my experience) the anti warming side telling us It's not happening. I don't ever remember telling them it was true, but now I am expected to. I don't think it's a discussion that will ever lead anywhere. I don't want to play. I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. -- Nom=de=Plume |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
"Jim" wrote in message
m... Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: "Jim" wrote in message m... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another. Actually it would be nice if facts were used by both sides in any debate. Unfortunately we disagree with the definition of a fact. Remembering from school, one side sees facts as something you manipulate to get what you want, to others, facts are facts and can't be changed. Lies and deception are good ways to manipulate facts. You see it all the time. "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." -- Nom=de=Plume |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
"Jim" wrote in message
m... Jim wrote: Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another. I forgot, which side was it that came up with "Death Panels" in the health care debate? I'll agree that that side did use lies and deception. The bottom side. -- Nom=de=Plume |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
In article ,
says... On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said Uh huh.... Welllllll......... http://www.climatedepot.com/a/3515/P...global-warming "Key Excerpt: Observations of the Sun show that as for the increase in temperature, carbon dioxide is "not guilty" and as for what lies ahead in the upcoming decades, it is not catastrophic warming, but a global, and very prolonged, temperature drop." Are we back to the ice age thing agian? Are we now going to be told to burn everything to increase the temperature. Mr. Smith you are being fined $2,500 for not burning enouh fossil fuel to keep the CO2 levels high enough to sustain life during the coming ice age. I was watching a show last night about the magnetite in lava and how it orients it self to the magnetic poles before the lava hardens. I believe we have more to worry about when the North and South poles switch, which we are well over due to have occur. Some scientists say it is a process and others say it can be like flipping a light switch. What I am waiting for is the 5 or 6 category 5 hurricanes we still should have between now and the end of November. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On 10/30/09 8:02 AM, BAR wrote:
In , says... On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said Uh huh.... Welllllll......... http://www.climatedepot.com/a/3515/P...global-warming "Key Excerpt: Observations of the Sun show that as for the increase in temperature, carbon dioxide is "not guilty" and as for what lies ahead in the upcoming decades, it is not catastrophic warming, but a global, and very prolonged, temperature drop." Are we back to the ice age thing agian? Are we now going to be told to burn everything to increase the temperature. Mr. Smith you are being fined $2,500 for not burning enouh fossil fuel to keep the CO2 levels high enough to sustain life during the coming ice age. I was watching a show last night about the magnetite in lava and how it orients it self to the magnetic poles before the lava hardens. I believe we have more to worry about when the North and South poles switch, which we are well over due to have occur. Some scientists say it is a process and others say it can be like flipping a light switch. What I am waiting for is the 5 or 6 category 5 hurricanes we still should have between now and the end of November. Why? You live well inland, and you don't have a boat to worry you. Do high winds interfere with your lousy golf game? |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
nom=de=plume wrote:
I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. Get theee into another situation pronto, puleeeeze. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
nom=de=plume wrote:
Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another. Actually it would be nice if facts were used by both sides in any debate. Unfortunately we disagree with the definition of a fact. Remembering from school, one side sees facts as something you manipulate to get what you want, to others, facts are facts and can't be changed. Lies and deception are good ways to manipulate facts. You see it all the time. "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." And some dingbats can't tell the difference. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:17:42 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: As Wayne suggested, you have to closely monitor feedback mechanisms. Don't want "unintended consequences." Rule number 1: There are always unintended consequences. Rule number 2: Pay attention to number 1. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Oct 29, 11:22*pm, Jim wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote: "Jim" wrote in message om... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CIENCE-US-CLIM.... OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters.. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming.." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. *We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? *To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Riiiiiiight.......... http://www.theseminal.com/2008/09/03...publican-lies/ |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
In article c5b90cc3-4282-41bc-bded-
, says... On Oct 29, 11:22*pm, Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: "Jim" wrote in message om... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CIENCE-US-CLIM... OTTAWA ? The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. *We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? *To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Riiiiiiight.......... http://www.theseminal.com/2008/09/03...publican-lies/ Yeah "mother****ers" right in the first paragraph.. Yeah, there's a journalist snerk I trust to be fair... Oh wait, only Republicans are held to standards of speech, almost forgot.. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On 10/30/09 10:07 AM, Tosk wrote:
In articlec5b90cc3-4282-41bc-bded- , says... On Oct 29, 11:22 pm, wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message m... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CIENCE-US-CLIM... OTTAWA ? The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Riiiiiiight.......... http://www.theseminal.com/2008/09/03...publican-lies/ Yeah "mother****ers" right in the first paragraph.. Yeah, there's a journalistsnerk I trust to be fair... Oh wait, only Republicans are held to standards of speech, almost forgot.. You don't have the education or life experience to judge *any* sort of data. What credentials have you to dispute any climate scientist? Oh...I know...you made a snowball once. Stacking boxes in a warehouse, the only real job you've had in your lifetime, is honest work but isn't a qualifier for commentary on scientific matters. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
Loogypicker wrote:
On Oct 29, 11:22 pm, Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: "Jim" wrote in message m... Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CIENCE-US-CLIM... OTTAWA — The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday. Vast sheets of impenetrable multiyear ice, which can reach up to 80 meters (260 feet) thick, have for centuries blocked the path of ships seeking a quick short cut through the fabled Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They also ruled out the idea of sailing across the top of the world. But David Barber, Canada's Research Chair in Arctic System Science at the University of Manitoba, said the ice was melting at an extraordinarily fast rate. "We are almost out of multiyear sea ice in the northern hemisphere," he said in a presentation in Parliament. The little that remains is jammed up against Canada's Arctic archipelago, far from potential shipping routes. Scientists link higher Arctic temperatures and melting sea ice to the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for global warming. Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought -- and largely failed to find -- a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk. Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of miles of what he called "rotten ice" -- 50-cm (20-inch) thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice. "I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he said. "From a practical perspective, if you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we were doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through." Scientists have fretted for decades about the pace at which the Arctic ice sheets are shrinking. U.S. data shows the 2009 ice cover was the third-lowest on record, after 2007 and 2008. An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. "I would argue that, from a practical perspective, we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic," said Barber. Fresh first-year ice always forms in the Arctic in the winter, when temperatures plunge far below freezing and the North Pole is not exposed to the sun. Shipping companies are already looking to benefit from warming waters. This year two German cargo ships successfully navigated from South Korea along Russia's northern Siberia coast without the help of icebreakers. The Arctic is warming up three times more quickly than the rest of the Earth, in part because of the reflectivity, or the albedo feedback effect, of ice. As more and more ice melts, larger expanses of darker sea water are exposed. These absorb more sunlight than the ice and cause the water to heat up more quickly, thereby melting more ice. Barber said the ice was now being melted both by rays from the sun as well as from below by the warmer water. Scientists are also seeing more cyclones, which pick up force as they absorb heat from the warmer water. The cyclones help generate waves that break up ice sheets and also dump large amounts of snow, which has an insulating effect and prevents the ice sheets from thickening. After a long search, Barber's ice breaker finally found a 16-km (10- mile) wide floe of multiyear ice that was around 6 to 8 meters (20-26 feet) thick. But as the crew watched, the floe was hit by a series of waves, and disintegrated in five minutes. "The Arctic is an early indicator of what we can expect at the global scale as we move through the next few decades ... So we should be paying attention to this very carefully," Barber said What happened is that the people who tend to not accept science, like evolution, and distrust regulation because it's THEIR RIGHT to do what they want, are trying to get an argument started about "Global Warming." Of course their point of view is it ain't happening. We are now to justify the opposite of their point of view trying to tell them of science and the need for regulation, proving them right, science can't be trusted, and regulation is unacceptable. Why argue with those guys? To them facts can be adjusted, there's no use playing their game. I agree in principle, but there's a reason, and it doesn't really have to do with "arguing." It has to do with ensuring that the truth gets out there. A lot of what's been going on can be boiled down to fear-based tactics. We saw what happened when it's allowed to stand without challenge. It needs to be challenged. They certainly have a right to their own opinions, and they even have a right to try to influence others, but the rest of us have a right to have our opinions to try to influence others also. We should certainly not be playing their game. We're not very good at using fear. We need to get better at using facts and a civil tone. Recent history has shown that the combination of the two works. Facts aren't tools used by democrats. Lies and deception is more their style. And then there's the real dumb ones that come pre-programmed. Krause for example. You for another.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Riiiiiiight.......... http://www.theseminal.com/2008/09/03...publican-lies/ I'm sure that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. But the problem is you've been lied to again. You need to expand your field of view to see the big picture. politics is a synonym for dirty corrupt business. Political parties are just tools to keep us fighting among ourselves, in hopes that what is really happening goes unnoticed. The current administration and congress is comprised of the scummiest bunch of thieves,thugs, and perverted individuals that this country has ever seen. Aligning yourself with ANY political party is only making yourself part of the problem. Stand up and be counted as an individual. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
Jim wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote: I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. Get theee into another situation pronto, puleeeeze. Getting into a discussion with the intentionally ignorant is a loosing battle. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:20:43 -0700, Jim wrote:
Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. Get theee into another situation pronto, puleeeeze. Getting into a discussion with the intentionally ignorant is a loosing battle. Intent falls short in this situation, otherwise I agree. Dogged pursuit of ignorance seems more fitting. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
jps wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:20:43 -0700, Jim wrote: Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. Get theee into another situation pronto, puleeeeze. Getting into a discussion with the intentionally ignorant is a loosing battle. Intent falls short in this situation, otherwise I agree. Dogged pursuit of ignorance seems more fitting. Frank Schaeffer, who wrote books the Christian right have on their book shelves, and videos they use as the basis of their beliefs, refers to them as "Permanently scared and intentionally ignorant." I love it that someone responsible for the Christian right refers to them as intentionally ignorant. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:09:36 -0700, Jim wrote:
jps wrote: On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:20:43 -0700, Jim wrote: Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. Get theee into another situation pronto, puleeeeze. Getting into a discussion with the intentionally ignorant is a loosing battle. Intent falls short in this situation, otherwise I agree. Dogged pursuit of ignorance seems more fitting. Frank Schaeffer, who wrote books the Christian right have on their book shelves, and videos they use as the basis of their beliefs, refers to them as "Permanently scared and intentionally ignorant." I love it that someone responsible for the Christian right refers to them as intentionally ignorant. Do you suppose a lot of Frank Schaeffer books have been burned since he announced this little tidbit? Would that qualify as irony? |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
jps wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:09:36 -0700, Jim wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:20:43 -0700, Jim wrote: Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. Get theee into another situation pronto, puleeeeze. Getting into a discussion with the intentionally ignorant is a loosing battle. Intent falls short in this situation, otherwise I agree. Dogged pursuit of ignorance seems more fitting. Frank Schaeffer, who wrote books the Christian right have on their book shelves, and videos they use as the basis of their beliefs, refers to them as "Permanently scared and intentionally ignorant." I love it that someone responsible for the Christian right refers to them as intentionally ignorant. Do you suppose a lot of Frank Schaeffer books have been burned since he announced this little tidbit? Would that qualify as irony? The true believers probably don't realize he thinks they are fools. I'll bet his books and tapes still sell well in Christian book stores. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:24:23 -0700, Jim wrote:
jps wrote: On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:09:36 -0700, Jim wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:20:43 -0700, Jim wrote: Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. Get theee into another situation pronto, puleeeeze. Getting into a discussion with the intentionally ignorant is a loosing battle. Intent falls short in this situation, otherwise I agree. Dogged pursuit of ignorance seems more fitting. Frank Schaeffer, who wrote books the Christian right have on their book shelves, and videos they use as the basis of their beliefs, refers to them as "Permanently scared and intentionally ignorant." I love it that someone responsible for the Christian right refers to them as intentionally ignorant. Do you suppose a lot of Frank Schaeffer books have been burned since he announced this little tidbit? Would that qualify as irony? The true believers probably don't realize he thinks they are fools. I'll bet his books and tapes still sell well in Christian book stores. What a strange place to live. Selling drivel to people you consider fools. That's some seriously cynical business. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker
wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CANADA-ARCTIC/ An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. From your cut'n'paste, Loogy. Now, what caused the global warming a million years ago that left the North Pole ice free? Perhaps you could explain how the industrial revolution and cow **** caused it? Huh? Or you could just pretend you didn't see this post. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Oct 31, 2:00*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CIENCE-US-CLIM... An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. From your cut'n'paste, Loogy. Now, what caused the global warming a million years ago that left the North Pole ice free? Perhaps you could explain how the industrial revolution and cow **** caused it? Huh? Or you could just pretend you didn't see this post. I don't know nor is it relevent to this discussion. Here's a fact. Now, in 2009, we have the scientific means to analyze how and why there is global warming. I've not read one single scientific paper that has said that CO2 emmisions are the single and only way global warming can occur. And I certainly never said such either. BUT, again, today in 2009, you can CLEARLY see an almost exact correlation between CO2 in the atmosphere and the trending of the earth's temperature. If the only argument you have is that global warming also happened a million years ago, you ain't got much, brother....! |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker
wrote: On Oct 31, 2:00*pm, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: This just can't be happening, they must have used trick photography, and lies because the right's two top climate scientists, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity say so..... http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...CIENCE-US-CLIM... An increasing number of experts feel the North Pole will be ice free in summer by 2030 at the latest, for the first time in a million years. From your cut'n'paste, Loogy. Now, what caused the global warming a million years ago that left the North Pole ice free? Perhaps you could explain how the industrial revolution and cow **** caused it? Huh? Or you could just pretend you didn't see this post. I don't know nor is it relevent to this discussion. Here's a fact. Now, in 2009, we have the scientific means to analyze how and why there is global warming. I've not read one single scientific paper that has said that CO2 emmisions are the single and only way global warming can occur. And I certainly never said such either. BUT, again, today in 2009, you can CLEARLY see an almost exact correlation between CO2 in the atmosphere and the trending of the earth's temperature. If the only argument you have is that global warming also happened a million years ago, you ain't got much, brother....! If not relevant, why was it in the article you posted? Quit changing the subject. Answer the question. Perhaps it's a cycle? |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
jps wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:24:23 -0700, Jim wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:09:36 -0700, Jim wrote: jps wrote: On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:20:43 -0700, Jim wrote: Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: I certainly understand. It's not too important to speak up in a forum like this, but in other situations, I believe it is. Get theee into another situation pronto, puleeeeze. Getting into a discussion with the intentionally ignorant is a loosing battle. Intent falls short in this situation, otherwise I agree. Dogged pursuit of ignorance seems more fitting. Frank Schaeffer, who wrote books the Christian right have on their book shelves, and videos they use as the basis of their beliefs, refers to them as "Permanently scared and intentionally ignorant." I love it that someone responsible for the Christian right refers to them as intentionally ignorant. Do you suppose a lot of Frank Schaeffer books have been burned since he announced this little tidbit? Would that qualify as irony? The true believers probably don't realize he thinks they are fools. I'll bet his books and tapes still sell well in Christian book stores. What a strange place to live. Selling drivel to people you consider fools. That's some seriously cynical business. Did you see Bush Sr.'s quote: Bush senior, to President Mikhail Gorbachev: "Reagan is a conservative. An extreme conservative. All the blockheads and dummies are for him, and when he says that something is necessary, they trust him. But if some Democrat had proposed what Reagan did, with you, they might not have trusted him." So it's not unknown for the powers at the top to speak of the people their tactics bring to them as "blockheads and dummies," which is how the people on the opposite side refer to them. Nice to see there is agreement. The ones who use them should be ashamed. Those who allow themselves to be used deserve it, I guess. Kind of like taking advantage of the mentally challenged. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
Loogypicker wrote:
On Oct 31, 2:00 pm, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: .................................................. .................... ................................. I've not read one single scientific paper that has said that CO2 emmisions are the single and only way global warming can occur. ............................! I'll bet the farm you have never read a scientific paper, on ANY subject, much less global warming. I'll also bet that you have never written a thesis. |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Oct 31, 5:28*pm, Jim wrote:
Loogypicker wrote: On Oct 31, 2:00 pm, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: .................................................. ................... ................................ I've not read one single scientific paper that has said that CO2 emmisions are the single and only way global warming can occur. ............................! I'll bet the farm you have never read a scientific paper, on ANY subject, much less global warming. I'll also bet that you have never written a thesis. How much or what would you like to wager on each of those? |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Nov 1, 1:32*pm, Jim wrote:
Loogypicker wrote: On Oct 31, 5:28 pm, Jim wrote: Loogypicker wrote: On Oct 31, 2:00 pm, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: .................................................. ................... ................................ I've not read one single scientific paper that has said that CO2 emmisions are the single and only way global warming can occur. ............................! I'll bet the farm you have never read a scientific paper, on ANY subject, much less global warming. I'll also bet that you have never written a thesis. How much or what would you like to wager on each of those? Like I said, you never have read anything of substance. *Your writing gives you away.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I take it you are afraid of a wager? |
This is NOT happening, Rush and Hannity say so!
On Nov 1, 1:36*pm, H the K wrote:
On 11/1/09 1:32 PM, Jim wrote: Loogypicker wrote: On Oct 31, 5:28 pm, Jim wrote: Loogypicker wrote: On Oct 31, 2:00 pm, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker wrote: .................................................. ................... ................................ I've not read one single scientific paper that has said that CO2 emmisions are the single and only way global warming can occur. ............................! I'll bet the farm you have never read a scientific paper, on ANY subject, much less global warming. I'll also bet that you have never written a thesis. How much or what would you like to wager on each of those? Like I said, you never have read anything of substance. Your writing gives you away. In terms of current posters, loogy's stupidity is only equaled or exceed by...scott ingersoll. It should be noted, however, that most of the right-wingers here are not much brighter. If you need evidence, just look at the posts of herring, fla jim, et cetera.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - See you this spring, Harry! |
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