Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest rise
in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for the
coming year — double the rate of last year’s increases. That would mean
an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800 this
year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too. Health
insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because they have
more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape all
of us repeatedly.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest rise
in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

[ snip ]

Too bad congress is greasing it's lips and sharpening their teath to
take cut off of the health care spending for it's own agendas of statism
and Obamanation.

Maybe they should, provided they give a damn about middle clas Americans
make it easier for competition and rules that allow new blood into the
industry. As it stands, you would need $10B working capital to start a
new health care company. Obsceny high needs high returns.

But if governemtn does it, they can lower the standard of care,
line-ups, rationing and skim the difference for government spending.

Ever wonder why government wants this through general revenue? To skim
your health care dollars. Easier than raising taxes. Government needs
raise it's incoming cash flow, Obamanation is expensive at $1.3 trillion
debt-spend in just 8 or 9 months.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/24/09 7:30 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

[ snip ]

Too bad congress is greasing it's lips and sharpening their teath to
take cut off of the health care spending for it's own agendas of statism
and Obamanation.

Maybe they should, provided they give a damn about middle clas Americans
make it easier for competition and rules that allow new blood into the
industry. As it stands, you would need $10B working capital to start a
new health care company. Obsceny high needs high returns.

But if governemtn does it, they can lower the standard of care,
line-ups, rationing and skim the difference for government spending.

Ever wonder why government wants this through general revenue? To skim
your health care dollars. Easier than raising taxes. Government needs
raise it's incoming cash flow, Obamanation is expensive at $1.3 trillion
debt-spend in just 8 or 9 months.



Sorry, but I give no credibility whatsoever to your side. Conserative
Republicans have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping middle
class Americans get, keep, and afford decent health care. I have no
interest in the bull**** being spewed by Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, or your
congressional leaders. **** you and everyone on your side of the
ship...which you are sinking.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 7:30 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

[ snip ]

Too bad congress is greasing it's lips and sharpening their teath to
take cut off of the health care spending for it's own agendas of statism
and Obamanation.

Maybe they should, provided they give a damn about middle clas Americans
make it easier for competition and rules that allow new blood into the
industry. As it stands, you would need $10B working capital to start a
new health care company. Obsceny high needs high returns.

But if governemtn does it, they can lower the standard of care,
line-ups, rationing and skim the difference for government spending.

Ever wonder why government wants this through general revenue? To skim
your health care dollars. Easier than raising taxes. Government needs
raise it's incoming cash flow, Obamanation is expensive at $1.3 trillion
debt-spend in just 8 or 9 months.



Sorry, but I give no credibility whatsoever to your side. Conserative
Republicans have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping middle
class Americans get, keep, and afford decent health care. I have no
interest in the bull**** being spewed by Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, or your
congressional leaders. **** you and everyone on your side of the
ship...which you are sinking.


Affordable health care was a available in the past. Low cost major medical
plans. Did not cover minor office visits, etc. Then states started adding
more and more items to be covered. Cost went up. Also, the cross state
selling of insurance is banned. Federal Govt. Now you want some pre
existing condition to be covered. You did not buy insurance as you wanted
the frills of living and now that you have gotten sick, you want into the
shared risk pool called insurance. A late friend was an insurance fraud
investigator. 20 years ago. Major life insurance problem. Could not
question if the person had AIDS. The AIDS person would find out he has a
fatal case of AIDS and then would buy a million or 2 million life insurance
policy with a payout to their partner. Same thing will happen with pre
existing condition inclusions. Cost of insurance will rise, or be
unavailable.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/24/09 8:00 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 7:30 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

[ snip ]

Too bad congress is greasing it's lips and sharpening their teath to
take cut off of the health care spending for it's own agendas of statism
and Obamanation.

Maybe they should, provided they give a damn about middle clas Americans
make it easier for competition and rules that allow new blood into the
industry. As it stands, you would need $10B working capital to start a
new health care company. Obsceny high needs high returns.

But if governemtn does it, they can lower the standard of care,
line-ups, rationing and skim the difference for government spending.

Ever wonder why government wants this through general revenue? To skim
your health care dollars. Easier than raising taxes. Government needs
raise it's incoming cash flow, Obamanation is expensive at $1.3 trillion
debt-spend in just 8 or 9 months.



Sorry, but I give no credibility whatsoever to your side. Conserative
Republicans have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping middle
class Americans get, keep, and afford decent health care. I have no
interest in the bull**** being spewed by Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, or your
congressional leaders. **** you and everyone on your side of the
ship...which you are sinking.


Affordable health care was a available in the past. Low cost major medical
plans. Did not cover minor office visits, etc. Then states started adding
more and more items to be covered. Cost went up. Also, the cross state
selling of insurance is banned. Federal Govt. Now you want some pre
existing condition to be covered. You did not buy insurance as you wanted
the frills of living and now that you have gotten sick, you want into the
shared risk pool called insurance. A late friend was an insurance fraud
investigator. 20 years ago. Major life insurance problem. Could not
question if the person had AIDS. The AIDS person would find out he has a
fatal case of AIDS and then would buy a million or 2 million life insurance
policy with a payout to their partner. Same thing will happen with pre
existing condition inclusions. Cost of insurance will rise, or be
unavailable.




If only you had some facts on your side. BTW, when you buy a significant
amount of life insurance, several things usually happen:

1. You have to present yourself for drawing of blood and give up a urine
sample. Your height, weight and blood pressure are measured.

2. You sign a waiver allowing the insurance company to examine your
medical records.

This was the case more than 20 years ago.

And, of course, for many generations, if you received your health
insurance through your employer's group policy, your chances of being
turned down for pre-existing conditions were minimal

The "across state lines" notion is a canard, but it sounds good, as does
tort reform.

The reason we are in the state we are in, vis-a-vis premiums,
turn-downs, denials, et cetera, is simple: the health insurance
companies are screwing us and will continue to do so for as long as they
can.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest rise
in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for the
coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would mean
an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800 this
year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too. Health
insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because they have
more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape all
of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 10/24/09 8:00 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 7:30 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

[ snip ]

Too bad congress is greasing it's lips and sharpening their teath to
take cut off of the health care spending for it's own agendas of
statism
and Obamanation.

Maybe they should, provided they give a damn about middle clas
Americans
make it easier for competition and rules that allow new blood into the
industry. As it stands, you would need $10B working capital to start a
new health care company. Obsceny high needs high returns.

But if governemtn does it, they can lower the standard of care,
line-ups, rationing and skim the difference for government spending.

Ever wonder why government wants this through general revenue? To skim
your health care dollars. Easier than raising taxes. Government needs
raise it's incoming cash flow, Obamanation is expensive at $1.3
trillion
debt-spend in just 8 or 9 months.



Sorry, but I give no credibility whatsoever to your side. Conserative
Republicans have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping middle
class Americans get, keep, and afford decent health care. I have no
interest in the bull**** being spewed by Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, or your
congressional leaders. **** you and everyone on your side of the
ship...which you are sinking.


Affordable health care was a available in the past. Low cost major
medical
plans. Did not cover minor office visits, etc. Then states started
adding
more and more items to be covered. Cost went up. Also, the cross state
selling of insurance is banned. Federal Govt. Now you want some pre
existing condition to be covered. You did not buy insurance as you
wanted
the frills of living and now that you have gotten sick, you want into the
shared risk pool called insurance. A late friend was an insurance fraud
investigator. 20 years ago. Major life insurance problem. Could not
question if the person had AIDS. The AIDS person would find out he has a
fatal case of AIDS and then would buy a million or 2 million life
insurance
policy with a payout to their partner. Same thing will happen with pre
existing condition inclusions. Cost of insurance will rise, or be
unavailable.




If only you had some facts on your side. BTW, when you buy a significant
amount of life insurance, several things usually happen:

1. You have to present yourself for drawing of blood and give up a urine
sample. Your height, weight and blood pressure are measured.

2. You sign a waiver allowing the insurance company to examine your
medical records.

This was the case more than 20 years ago.

And, of course, for many generations, if you received your health
insurance through your employer's group policy, your chances of being
turned down for pre-existing conditions were minimal

The "across state lines" notion is a canard, but it sounds good, as does
tort reform.

The reason we are in the state we are in, vis-a-vis premiums, turn-downs,
denials, et cetera, is simple: the health insurance companies are screwing
us and will continue to do so for as long as they can.

Nope, AIDS is the political disease. Could not ask or test.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

Bill McKee wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 10/24/09 8:00 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 7:30 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.
[ snip ]

Too bad congress is greasing it's lips and sharpening their teath to
take cut off of the health care spending for it's own agendas of
statism
and Obamanation.

Maybe they should, provided they give a damn about middle clas
Americans
make it easier for competition and rules that allow new blood into the
industry. As it stands, you would need $10B working capital to start a
new health care company. Obsceny high needs high returns.

But if governemtn does it, they can lower the standard of care,
line-ups, rationing and skim the difference for government spending.

Ever wonder why government wants this through general revenue? To skim
your health care dollars. Easier than raising taxes. Government needs
raise it's incoming cash flow, Obamanation is expensive at $1.3
trillion
debt-spend in just 8 or 9 months.


Sorry, but I give no credibility whatsoever to your side. Conserative
Republicans have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping middle
class Americans get, keep, and afford decent health care. I have no
interest in the bull**** being spewed by Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, or your
congressional leaders. **** you and everyone on your side of the
ship...which you are sinking.

Affordable health care was a available in the past. Low cost major
medical
plans. Did not cover minor office visits, etc. Then states started
adding
more and more items to be covered. Cost went up. Also, the cross state
selling of insurance is banned. Federal Govt. Now you want some pre
existing condition to be covered. You did not buy insurance as you
wanted
the frills of living and now that you have gotten sick, you want into the
shared risk pool called insurance. A late friend was an insurance fraud
investigator. 20 years ago. Major life insurance problem. Could not
question if the person had AIDS. The AIDS person would find out he has a
fatal case of AIDS and then would buy a million or 2 million life
insurance
policy with a payout to their partner. Same thing will happen with pre
existing condition inclusions. Cost of insurance will rise, or be
unavailable.



If only you had some facts on your side. BTW, when you buy a significant
amount of life insurance, several things usually happen:

1. You have to present yourself for drawing of blood and give up a urine
sample. Your height, weight and blood pressure are measured.

2. You sign a waiver allowing the insurance company to examine your
medical records.

This was the case more than 20 years ago.

And, of course, for many generations, if you received your health
insurance through your employer's group policy, your chances of being
turned down for pre-existing conditions were minimal

The "across state lines" notion is a canard, but it sounds good, as does
tort reform.

The reason we are in the state we are in, vis-a-vis premiums, turn-downs,
denials, et cetera, is simple: the health insurance companies are screwing
us and will continue to do so for as long as they can.

Nope, AIDS is the political disease. Could not ask or test.



Harry gets screwed more than a crack whore. Must be because of his
lovely disposition.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall benefit to
all fellow citizens.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/25/09 9:11 AM, Don White wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes&
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall benefit to
all fellow citizens.




Maybe, though I would prefer to see sharp increases in income taxes for
the wealthy, as well as removing the cap on social security taxes.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 7:30 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

[ snip ]

Too bad congress is greasing it's lips and sharpening their teath to
take cut off of the health care spending for it's own agendas of statism
and Obamanation.

Maybe they should, provided they give a damn about middle clas Americans
make it easier for competition and rules that allow new blood into the
industry. As it stands, you would need $10B working capital to start a
new health care company. Obsceny high needs high returns.

But if governemtn does it, they can lower the standard of care,
line-ups, rationing and skim the difference for government spending.

Ever wonder why government wants this through general revenue? To skim
your health care dollars. Easier than raising taxes. Government needs
raise it's incoming cash flow, Obamanation is expensive at $1.3 trillion
debt-spend in just 8 or 9 months.



Sorry, but I give no credibility whatsoever to your side. Conserative
Republicans have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping middle
class Americans get, keep, and afford decent health care. I have no
interest in the bull**** being spewed by Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, or your
congressional leaders. **** you and everyone on your side of the
ship...which you are sinking.

But more importantly, the conservative republicans would like to leave
the choice with you, the individual. Don't miss that very important
point. So if government services are crappy, you can go elsewhere.

Nothing to stop the government from providing fee services and make it
100% self funded. Sperate from general revenue so the health care
proceeds are not skimmed for corruption.

But that isn't what Obama/Congress wants, they want a piece of the
health care action. They want to skim it, and since raising taxes is
unpopular then why not get the health care bucks to skim?

Think before you vote, and go to a Canadian hospital to see the lineups.
We are not that far away.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right
now the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient
practices due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the
other way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall benefit to
all fellow citizens.

How about a none refundable and non-deductable 30% surtax on all income
from all sources unless you can verify you have insurance from some
source. Plus a means test. I don't think Bill Gates needs a private
plan. Bet 95% of those without insurance would soon have insurance.

Problem with a sales tax, as we have seen in Canada is simple. What
guarantees are there that it will be spent on what they say it will be?
Second is, is your employer going to give you a big raise when they
don't pay health care but you pay the sales taxes? A third issue is
fraud, GST in Canada is so screwed up even the CRA admits it is out of
control. Mind you, it makes for more people employed in government.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 9:11 AM, Don White wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund
universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes&
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall
benefit to
all fellow citizens.

Maybe, though I would prefer to see sharp increases in income taxes for
the wealthy, as well as removing the cap on social security taxes.

Wealth is relative. When they said the same thing, tax the wealthy some
30 years ago in Canada, dumb Canadians supported it.

Now, 40% of the households are at the top margnal rate with high
employment taxes for all. That "wealthy" windows slides down into the
middle class in time. The idea is to sell the tax as being for the
wealthy then adjust it later. Taxation creep if you will.

In the end, the pain will make it to your pocket book.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:49:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right
now the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient
practices due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the
other way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.

It's a shame that a Canadian can see through 'Bama's concept, but the
liberals down here can't do that.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:55:45 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall benefit to
all fellow citizens.

How about a none refundable and non-deductable 30% surtax on all income
from all sources unless you can verify you have insurance from some
source. Plus a means test. I don't think Bill Gates needs a private
plan. Bet 95% of those without insurance would soon have insurance.

Problem with a sales tax, as we have seen in Canada is simple. What
guarantees are there that it will be spent on what they say it will be?
Second is, is your employer going to give you a big raise when they
don't pay health care but you pay the sales taxes? A third issue is
fraud, GST in Canada is so screwed up even the CRA admits it is out of
control. Mind you, it makes for more people employed in government.

Not to mention that a national sales, or value added, tax affects the
poor much worse than the middle or upper class.

Here we have two Canadians in disagreement. One knows what he's
talking about. (And it isn't you, Don.)

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall benefit to
all fellow citizens.


I can not find the reference but I believe the profit margins for the
insurance companies are about a tenth of the figures quoted or about 2.5
to 4%, or about the same as a Walmart, grocery stores or many other
companies in the world.

Only a start up company would experience 25 to 40% profits. They may
see a 25 to 40% change in their profits, with the 30% pelosi plunge
during the first 2 weeks of October 2008 and the 30% obama slide during
the first three months of this year.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/25/09 10:49 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right now
the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient practices
due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the other
way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.


I believe I previously stated I simply do not believe any of the crap
you right-wingers spew. The agenda of the right has no points of
intersection with the aspirations of the middle class or those striving
to attain it.

We should be doing to the right what the right has done to the rest of
the world.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 9:11 AM, Don White wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund
universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes&
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall
benefit to
all fellow citizens.




Maybe, though I would prefer to see sharp increases in income taxes for
the wealthy, as well as removing the cap on social security taxes.
Tax the Globalist enterprises that are taking our wealth and avoiding
taxes here. They have exported our jobs and debased our currency. If a
major war came along we don't have the manufacturing base, anymore to
win it. The American Dream is dead except for the professional
management class.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:55:45 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That
would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and
$4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not
as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The
coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get
sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super
rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund
universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall
benefit to
all fellow citizens.

How about a none refundable and non-deductable 30% surtax on all income
from all sources unless you can verify you have insurance from some
source. Plus a means test. I don't think Bill Gates needs a private
plan. Bet 95% of those without insurance would soon have insurance.

Problem with a sales tax, as we have seen in Canada is simple. What
guarantees are there that it will be spent on what they say it will be?
Second is, is your employer going to give you a big raise when they
don't pay health care but you pay the sales taxes? A third issue is
fraud, GST in Canada is so screwed up even the CRA admits it is out of
control. Mind you, it makes for more people employed in government.

Not to mention that a national sales, or value added, tax affects the
poor much worse than the middle or upper class.

Here we have two Canadians in disagreement. One knows what he's
talking about. (And it isn't you, Don.)

I hear some crying that the poor would pay nothing for their healthcare
while the middle class will pay more.
A sales tax ensures that all will pay into the pot........ some more & some
less depending on your spending habits.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

Don White wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:55:45 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That
would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and
$4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not
as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The
coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get
sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super
rich
that now own America.
Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund
universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall
benefit to
all fellow citizens.
How about a none refundable and non-deductable 30% surtax on all income
from all sources unless you can verify you have insurance from some
source. Plus a means test. I don't think Bill Gates needs a private
plan. Bet 95% of those without insurance would soon have insurance.

Problem with a sales tax, as we have seen in Canada is simple. What
guarantees are there that it will be spent on what they say it will be?
Second is, is your employer going to give you a big raise when they
don't pay health care but you pay the sales taxes? A third issue is
fraud, GST in Canada is so screwed up even the CRA admits it is out of
control. Mind you, it makes for more people employed in government.
Not to mention that a national sales, or value added, tax affects the
poor much worse than the middle or upper class.

Here we have two Canadians in disagreement. One knows what he's
talking about. (And it isn't you, Don.)

I hear some crying that the poor would pay nothing for their healthcare
while the middle class will pay more.
A sales tax ensures that all will pay into the pot........ some more & some
less depending on your spending habits.

While I agree in principle of what you say about a sales tax, and that
is the lie Ottawa gave Canadians with GST, but in the end it was a
incremental tax gouge pure and simple. Even the poor get GST rebate
checks. Add in crooked politics and it is bad news for a sales tax.

The middle class pays the load. No middle class, the government would
fall in a day.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

John H. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:49:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.
Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right
now the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient
practices due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the
other way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.

It's a shame that a Canadian can see through 'Bama's concept, but the
liberals down here can't do that.

Liberals are often denialist sheep, choosing what they want to see based
on emotional confusion. They often lack the rationality and experience
when they shoot off and are easy prey for a "Mesiah" Obama. Too bad so
many are so stupid.

I must admit, I am a rare bird in that I have experienced the system
first hand on both sides of the border, having lived in the USA for 10
years. So mine is one of personal experience.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 10:49 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right now
the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient practices
due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the other
way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.


I believe I previously stated I simply do not believe any of the crap
you right-wingers spew. The agenda of the right has no points of
intersection with the aspirations of the middle class or those striving
to attain it.

We should be doing to the right what the right has done to the rest of
the world.

Stupid talk from a loser looking for a free luch.

So you would sell out Ameericans? Heck, that is what this is about.
Selling out American wealth for statism. Get over it.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/25/09 4:48 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 10:49 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That
would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and
$4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally
not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The
coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get
sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super
rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right now
the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient practices
due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the other
way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.


I believe I previously stated I simply do not believe any of the crap
you right-wingers spew. The agenda of the right has no points of
intersection with the aspirations of the middle class or those
striving to attain it.

We should be doing to the right what the right has done to the rest of
the world.

Stupid talk from a loser looking for a free luch.

So you would sell out Ameericans? Heck, that is what this is about.
Selling out American wealth for statism. Get over it.


American wealth? You mean the wealth the rich stole from the middle class?

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. Duck" wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance

You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/25/09 6:35 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance

You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.


I saw the AP piece and it gave me a good laugh. Considering all the
"adjustments" that result in "net income,"I'm astonished anyone believes
net income is really representative of anything. Well, anyone but Tom.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 6:35 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance


You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.


I saw the AP piece and it gave me a good laugh. Considering all the
"adjustments" that result in "net income,"I'm astonished anyone believes
net income is really representative of anything. Well, anyone but Tom.

Tell us what you believe in WAFA. That should be good for a laugh

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:35:32 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. Duck" wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance

You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.

If you stayed in your basement and made up stories, you'd live a long
life also. But, you'd not have near as much fun as you have now, nor
the relationship with your kids that you enjoy.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:47:06 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:49:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.
Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right
now the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient
practices due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the
other way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.

It's a shame that a Canadian can see through 'Bama's concept, but the
liberals down here can't do that.

Liberals are often denialist sheep, choosing what they want to see based
on emotional confusion. They often lack the rationality and experience
when they shoot off and are easy prey for a "Mesiah" Obama. Too bad so
many are so stupid.

I must admit, I am a rare bird in that I have experienced the system
first hand on both sides of the border, having lived in the USA for 10
years. So mine is one of personal experience.

It's obvious.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:49:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right
now the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient
practices due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the
other way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.

It's a shame that a Canadian can see through 'Bama's concept, but the
liberals down here can't do that.

It's the end, not the means. It's all about redistributing tax payers
wealth to folks who will vote on the promise of free gas and rent...
Mostly folks who don't pay taxes...

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

In article , says...

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:



Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

Uh, it's our Krausie, so of course, it's a lie...

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. Duck" wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance

You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.

Well, most likely the ankle bracelet keeps him safe in his cellar...

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:33:30 -0400, Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:49:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right
now the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient
practices due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the
other way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.

It's a shame that a Canadian can see through 'Bama's concept, but the
liberals down here can't do that.

It's the end, not the means. It's all about redistributing tax payers
wealth to folks who will vote on the promise of free gas and rent...
Mostly folks who don't pay taxes...

....and get their news from Beavis and Butthead.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:24:25 -0400, Jim wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 6:35 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance


You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.


I saw the AP piece and it gave me a good laugh. Considering all the
"adjustments" that result in "net income,"I'm astonished anyone believes
net income is really representative of anything. Well, anyone but Tom.

Tell us what you believe in WAFA. That should be good for a laugh

Obviously not mathematics and/or arithmetic, statistics or advanced
economic theory.

Seriously, you should feel sorry for him. It's all that force fed
Union training he's had to endure.

Union training is like being a detainee in Gitmo - only different.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/25/09 10:24 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:24:25 -0400, wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 6:35 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance


You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.


I saw the AP piece and it gave me a good laugh. Considering all the
"adjustments" that result in "net income,"I'm astonished anyone believes
net income is really representative of anything. Well, anyone but Tom.

Tell us what you believe in WAFA. That should be good for a laugh

Obviously not mathematics and/or arithmetic, statistics or advanced
economic theory.

Seriously, you should feel sorry for him. It's all that force fed
Union training he's had to endure.

Union training is like being a detainee in Gitmo - only different.



Ahhhh...Tom's new meds are upsetting him.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

"Keith Nuttle" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund
universal health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall benefit
to all fellow citizens.
I can not find the reference but I believe the profit margins for the
insurance companies are about a tenth of the figures quoted or about 2.5
to 4%, or about the same as a Walmart, grocery stores or many other
companies in the world.

Only a start up company would experience 25 to 40% profits. They may see
a 25 to 40% change in their profits, with the 30% pelosi plunge during the
first 2 weeks of October 2008 and the 30% obama slide during the first
three months of this year.

actually financial companies were making big profits. Before the crash,
Citigroup made about 35% profit.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:47:06 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:49:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the
health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That
would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and
$4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but
because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not
as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the
insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to
get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The
coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying
on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early
part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they
lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get
sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super
rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.
Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right
now the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient
practices due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a
free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each
month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the
other way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.

It's a shame that a Canadian can see through 'Bama's concept, but the
liberals down here can't do that.

Liberals are often denialist sheep, choosing what they want to see based
on emotional confusion. They often lack the rationality and experience
when they shoot off and are easy prey for a "Mesiah" Obama. Too bad so
many are so stupid.

I must admit, I am a rare bird in that I have experienced the system
first hand on both sides of the border, having lived in the USA for 10
years. So mine is one of personal experience.

It's obvious.

Yeah...for someone who has Uncle Sam looking after his health benefits.