Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 9:11 AM, Don White wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund
universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes&
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall
benefit to
all fellow citizens.




Maybe, though I would prefer to see sharp increases in income taxes for
the wealthy, as well as removing the cap on social security taxes.
Tax the Globalist enterprises that are taking our wealth and avoiding
taxes here. They have exported our jobs and debased our currency. If a
major war came along we don't have the manufacturing base, anymore to
win it. The American Dream is dead except for the professional
management class.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:55:45 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That
would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and
$4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not
as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The
coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get
sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super
rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.


I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund
universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall
benefit to
all fellow citizens.

How about a none refundable and non-deductable 30% surtax on all income
from all sources unless you can verify you have insurance from some
source. Plus a means test. I don't think Bill Gates needs a private
plan. Bet 95% of those without insurance would soon have insurance.

Problem with a sales tax, as we have seen in Canada is simple. What
guarantees are there that it will be spent on what they say it will be?
Second is, is your employer going to give you a big raise when they
don't pay health care but you pay the sales taxes? A third issue is
fraud, GST in Canada is so screwed up even the CRA admits it is out of
control. Mind you, it makes for more people employed in government.

Not to mention that a national sales, or value added, tax affects the
poor much worse than the middle or upper class.

Here we have two Canadians in disagreement. One knows what he's
talking about. (And it isn't you, Don.)

I hear some crying that the poor would pay nothing for their healthcare
while the middle class will pay more.
A sales tax ensures that all will pay into the pot........ some more & some
less depending on your spending habits.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

Don White wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:55:45 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That
would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and
$4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not
as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The
coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get
sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super
rich
that now own America.
Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

I still think a national sales tax would be a better way to fund
universal
health care for most Americans.
Sure..the guy who buys the $100K boat, $60K auto or expensive clothes &
furnishings will pay more... but you have to think of the overall
benefit to
all fellow citizens.
How about a none refundable and non-deductable 30% surtax on all income
from all sources unless you can verify you have insurance from some
source. Plus a means test. I don't think Bill Gates needs a private
plan. Bet 95% of those without insurance would soon have insurance.

Problem with a sales tax, as we have seen in Canada is simple. What
guarantees are there that it will be spent on what they say it will be?
Second is, is your employer going to give you a big raise when they
don't pay health care but you pay the sales taxes? A third issue is
fraud, GST in Canada is so screwed up even the CRA admits it is out of
control. Mind you, it makes for more people employed in government.
Not to mention that a national sales, or value added, tax affects the
poor much worse than the middle or upper class.

Here we have two Canadians in disagreement. One knows what he's
talking about. (And it isn't you, Don.)

I hear some crying that the poor would pay nothing for their healthcare
while the middle class will pay more.
A sales tax ensures that all will pay into the pot........ some more & some
less depending on your spending habits.

While I agree in principle of what you say about a sales tax, and that
is the lie Ottawa gave Canadians with GST, but in the end it was a
incremental tax gouge pure and simple. Even the poor get GST rebate
checks. Add in crooked politics and it is bad news for a sales tax.

The middle class pays the load. No middle class, the government would
fall in a day.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

John H. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:49:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.

Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.
Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right
now the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient
practices due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the
other way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.

It's a shame that a Canadian can see through 'Bama's concept, but the
liberals down here can't do that.

Liberals are often denialist sheep, choosing what they want to see based
on emotional confusion. They often lack the rationality and experience
when they shoot off and are easy prey for a "Mesiah" Obama. Too bad so
many are so stupid.

I must admit, I am a rare bird in that I have experienced the system
first hand on both sides of the border, having lived in the USA for 10
years. So mine is one of personal experience.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 10:49 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and $4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right now
the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient practices
due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the other
way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.


I believe I previously stated I simply do not believe any of the crap
you right-wingers spew. The agenda of the right has no points of
intersection with the aspirations of the middle class or those striving
to attain it.

We should be doing to the right what the right has done to the rest of
the world.

Stupid talk from a loser looking for a free luch.

So you would sell out Ameericans? Heck, that is what this is about.
Selling out American wealth for statism. Get over it.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/25/09 4:48 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 10:49 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 10/24/09 10:35 PM, elder wrote:
H the K wrote:
October 25, 2009
Small Business Faces Sharp Rise in Costs of Health Care
By REED ABELSON
NY Times

As Congress nears votes on legislation that would overhaul the health
care system, many small businesses say they are facing the steepest
rise in insurance premiums they have seen in recent years.

Insurance brokers and benefits consultants say their small business
clients are seeing premiums go up an average of about 15 percent for
the coming year ? double the rate of last year?s increases. That
would
mean an annual premium that was $4,500 per employee in 2008 and
$4,800
this year would rise to $5,500 in 2010.

The higher premiums at least partly reflect the inexorable rise of
medical costs, which is forcing Medicare to raise premiums, too.
Health insurance bills are also rising for big employers, but because
they have more negotiating clout, their increases are generally
not as
steep.

Higher medical costs aside, some experts say they think the insurance
industry, under pressure from Wall Street, is raising premiums to get
ahead of any legislative changes that might reduce their profits.

- - -

Yeah, like we really truly need for-profit health insurers who rape
all of us repeatedly.

A relative works for a big retailer. Insurance cost a lot. The
coverage
has a huge deductible and co payments. Next year it goes up in price
again and deductibles and co payments are even higher. Still paying on
share of cost that insurance didn't cover from treatment in early part
of year. They cut hours. Next year it will take the equivalent of 2
months pay to cover the deductible and co payments.
Another works for national chain. They cut their hours several times
this past 2 years. When their hours go below 70 in two weeks they lose
their coverage. Medical bills take half of the pay. Everybody get
sick.
Now they must sacrifice food etc and forget a future due high cost of
insurance and small benefits to help fill the coffers of the super
rich
that now own America.


Bingo. Meanwhile, the health insurers are gouging out 25%-40% profits.
Bendover a little further, please.

Maybe congres needs to look at ways to allow more competition. Right now
the system is so complex and loaded with stupid inefficient practices
due to stupid laws...

While other laws are lacking. Especially in the fairness area.

And does anyone in this group think governemnt is going to live by the
same laws they impale on business? LMAO.

This is about skiming American's health dollars for government revenue.
Pure and simple. If you think going to government is going to make
things better, ask yourself would 95% of Americans be satisfied with
less services, longer waits, poorer quality doctors so hat 5% get a free
lunch?

And if you think Canada has it right, why do I pay $300 extra each month
so I am covered when I travel to the US? Americans coming to Canada
don't need to do that, their US coverage is good here. But not the other
way around.

At least Americans with health care money in their own pockets have a
choice, in Canada there is only one health provider and if you don't
like the regional health care assessment of your situation, they have
your money and you have no service.

25% profit is better than 50% government skiming.

There is a lib-dim brainwash going on with Americans, if you were
intelligent you would tell Obama to f'ck off. His plan stinks of a tax
increase through the side door. Don't be a sucker.


I believe I previously stated I simply do not believe any of the crap
you right-wingers spew. The agenda of the right has no points of
intersection with the aspirations of the middle class or those
striving to attain it.

We should be doing to the right what the right has done to the rest of
the world.

Stupid talk from a loser looking for a free luch.

So you would sell out Ameericans? Heck, that is what this is about.
Selling out American wealth for statism. Get over it.


American wealth? You mean the wealth the rich stole from the middle class?

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. Duck" wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance

You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

On 10/25/09 6:35 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance

You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.


I saw the AP piece and it gave me a good laugh. Considering all the
"adjustments" that result in "net income,"I'm astonished anyone believes
net income is really representative of anything. Well, anyone but Tom.

Insurers to take more money from middle Americans...
 

H the K wrote:
On 10/25/09 6:35 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:26 -0400, "D. wrote:

Could you claify, are those net or gross profits?

As usual, our resident Moonbat has his facts wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/...alth_insurance


You know, as wrong as he is on almost everything, it's a wonder he's
managed to live as long as he has.


I saw the AP piece and it gave me a good laugh. Considering all the
"adjustments" that result in "net income,"I'm astonished anyone believes
net income is really representative of anything. Well, anyone but Tom.

Tell us what you believe in WAFA. That should be good for a laugh