http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...px?NewsID=3766

Not much to do about the whales, but the diverter valves to the bilge
are sure a good idea.
Never heard of that before and never even thought about it.
Seems I should have, since I was damage control (HT) when I did a USNR
stint.
But even my can in the regular Navy didn't have diverters on the
fireroom steam fire pumps (I knew about every square inch of the
bilges, and all piping runs/valving.) Would make a huge difference in
dewatering.
A strainer and minimal maintenance are a requirement.
Fast access to the diverter valve is another requirement.
Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...px?NewsID=3766

Not much to do about the whales, but the diverter valves to the bilge
are sure a good idea.
Never heard of that before and never even thought about it.
Seems I should have, since I was damage control (HT) when I did a USNR
stint.
But even my can in the regular Navy didn't have diverters on the
fireroom steam fire pumps (I knew about every square inch of the
bilges, and all piping runs/valving.) Would make a huge difference in
dewatering.
A strainer and minimal maintenance are a requirement.
Fast access to the diverter valve is another requirement.
Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..
Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against such an
arrangement.
If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:41:19 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:


This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..

It would only be used when sinking. The strainer should be kept
clean. Can be tested with a clean bilge.

Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against such an
arrangement.

That was my thought too. Didn't bother to check various engine water
pump GPH capacities.
The cited article did seem to indicate the diversions kept them from
sinking.
Personally, I'd go after patching the hole one of the first measures.

If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

That was one of my first thoughts, but it's a bigger project.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:41:19 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:


This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..

It would only be used when sinking. The strainer should be kept
clean. Can be tested with a clean bilge.

Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against such
an
arrangement.

That was my thought too. Didn't bother to check various engine water
pump GPH capacities.
The cited article did seem to indicate the diversions kept them from
sinking.
Personally, I'd go after patching the hole one of the first measures.

If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

That was one of my first thoughts, but it's a bigger project.

--Vic


Vic,
I met a guy that had holed the hull on a 22' fishing boat (rebar on new
county ramps), drove the boat out to thier (Central Florida, Atlantic side)
bottom fishing spot on plane (hull hole above water). It was a calm, flat
day.
Once at the fishing spot, boat drops off plane and water starts coming in.
They (owner +2) had time to get and write down a position fix from the Loran
(this was late 80s), call the Coasties on VHF, disconnect and pack
electronics and fishing gear in a big cooler and don life jackets before the
boat sank.
2 of the 3 were sport scuba divers. I'd have jumped in and plugged the hole
with t-shirts/extra life jacket/neighbors cat/whatever, bailed and kept
bailing while motoring home. But then, I'd hope common sense would have led
me to putting the boat back on the trailer to see what the heck all the
noise was from when launching and hitting the rebar.
He didn't admit it, but I suspect copius amounts of beer was involoved. I
hoped there was an excuse for this dumbassedness.
I don't think it was for insurance, the owner wanted my shop to recover the
boat, old hull with a new motor and all the bolt on gear. He offered the
hull in exchange for the offshore salvage.
I told him to go find the boat and mark it with a bouy and then we'd talk
about what it was going to cost but we weren't going to do it for an old
hull with a hole in it.
He never came back. Don't know if he found it or even tried to.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:48:53 -0400, "mmc" wrote:

Vic,
I met a guy that had holed the hull on a 22' fishing boat (rebar on new
county ramps), drove the boat out to thier (Central Florida, Atlantic side)
bottom fishing spot on plane (hull hole above water). It was a calm, flat
day.
Once at the fishing spot, boat drops off plane and water starts coming in.
They (owner +2) had time to get and write down a position fix from the Loran
(this was late 80s), call the Coasties on VHF, disconnect and pack
electronics and fishing gear in a big cooler and don life jackets before the
boat sank.
2 of the 3 were sport scuba divers. I'd have jumped in and plugged the hole
with t-shirts/extra life jacket/neighbors cat/whatever, bailed and kept
bailing while motoring home. But then, I'd hope common sense would have led
me to putting the boat back on the trailer to see what the heck all the
noise was from when launching and hitting the rebar.
He didn't admit it, but I suspect copius amounts of beer was involoved. I
hoped there was an excuse for this dumbassedness.
I don't think it was for insurance, the owner wanted my shop to recover the
boat, old hull with a new motor and all the bolt on gear. He offered the
hull in exchange for the offshore salvage.
I told him to go find the boat and mark it with a bouy and then we'd talk
about what it was going to cost but we weren't going to do it for an old
hull with a hole in it.
He never came back. Don't know if he found it or even tried to.

Interesting. Were/are you a diver?
Seems most boaters don't think much about hole patch kits.
Common in the Navy and Merchant Marine.
Reminds me of the captain of the Rocket, an old Cleveland Tankers
oiler I did a few trips on as a watertender.
Think we were in Lake Huron when the captain put us dead in the water,
donned his scuba gear and went overboard with oakum and a fid.
Apparently somebody had spotted some leakage from the hull plates, so
he sealed them up with oakum.
A patch kit for a small boat shouldn't be hard to put together.
Maybe a sheet of visqueen and some glue/gunk that will hold it on
under water.
If I had a boat I'd look into it. Nice being prepared.
Of course when the **** really hits the fan it's a new ball game.
"What?!!"
"What do you mean the patch kit is in the garage?!"

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:48:53 -0400, "mmc" wrote:

Vic,
I met a guy that had holed the hull on a 22' fishing boat (rebar on new
county ramps), drove the boat out to thier (Central Florida, Atlantic
side)
bottom fishing spot on plane (hull hole above water). It was a calm, flat
day.
Once at the fishing spot, boat drops off plane and water starts coming in.
They (owner +2) had time to get and write down a position fix from the
Loran
(this was late 80s), call the Coasties on VHF, disconnect and pack
electronics and fishing gear in a big cooler and don life jackets before
the
boat sank.
2 of the 3 were sport scuba divers. I'd have jumped in and plugged the
hole
with t-shirts/extra life jacket/neighbors cat/whatever, bailed and kept
bailing while motoring home. But then, I'd hope common sense would have
led
me to putting the boat back on the trailer to see what the heck all the
noise was from when launching and hitting the rebar.
He didn't admit it, but I suspect copius amounts of beer was involoved. I
hoped there was an excuse for this dumbassedness.
I don't think it was for insurance, the owner wanted my shop to recover
the
boat, old hull with a new motor and all the bolt on gear. He offered the
hull in exchange for the offshore salvage.
I told him to go find the boat and mark it with a bouy and then we'd talk
about what it was going to cost but we weren't going to do it for an old
hull with a hole in it.
He never came back. Don't know if he found it or even tried to.

Interesting. Were/are you a diver?
Seems most boaters don't think much about hole patch kits.
Common in the Navy and Merchant Marine.
Reminds me of the captain of the Rocket, an old Cleveland Tankers
oiler I did a few trips on as a watertender.
Think we were in Lake Huron when the captain put us dead in the water,
donned his scuba gear and went overboard with oakum and a fid.
Apparently somebody had spotted some leakage from the hull plates, so
he sealed them up with oakum.
A patch kit for a small boat shouldn't be hard to put together.
Maybe a sheet of visqueen and some glue/gunk that will hold it on
under water.
If I had a boat I'd look into it. Nice being prepared.
Of course when the **** really hits the fan it's a new ball game.
"What?!!"
"What do you mean the patch kit is in the garage?!"

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:48:53 -0400, "mmc" wrote:

Vic,
I met a guy that had holed the hull on a 22' fishing boat (rebar on new
county ramps), drove the boat out to thier (Central Florida, Atlantic
side)
bottom fishing spot on plane (hull hole above water). It was a calm, flat
day.
Once at the fishing spot, boat drops off plane and water starts coming in.
They (owner +2) had time to get and write down a position fix from the
Loran
(this was late 80s), call the Coasties on VHF, disconnect and pack
electronics and fishing gear in a big cooler and don life jackets before
the
boat sank.
2 of the 3 were sport scuba divers. I'd have jumped in and plugged the
hole
with t-shirts/extra life jacket/neighbors cat/whatever, bailed and kept
bailing while motoring home. But then, I'd hope common sense would have
led
me to putting the boat back on the trailer to see what the heck all the
noise was from when launching and hitting the rebar.
He didn't admit it, but I suspect copius amounts of beer was involoved. I
hoped there was an excuse for this dumbassedness.
I don't think it was for insurance, the owner wanted my shop to recover
the
boat, old hull with a new motor and all the bolt on gear. He offered the
hull in exchange for the offshore salvage.
I told him to go find the boat and mark it with a bouy and then we'd talk
about what it was going to cost but we weren't going to do it for an old
hull with a hole in it.
He never came back. Don't know if he found it or even tried to.

Interesting. Were/are you a diver?
Seems most boaters don't think much about hole patch kits.
Common in the Navy and Merchant Marine.
Reminds me of the captain of the Rocket, an old Cleveland Tankers
oiler I did a few trips on as a watertender.
Think we were in Lake Huron when the captain put us dead in the water,
donned his scuba gear and went overboard with oakum and a fid.
Apparently somebody had spotted some leakage from the hull plates, so
he sealed them up with oakum.
A patch kit for a small boat shouldn't be hard to put together.
Maybe a sheet of visqueen and some glue/gunk that will hold it on
under water.
If I had a boat I'd look into it. Nice being prepared.
Of course when the **** really hits the fan it's a new ball game.
"What?!!"
"What do you mean the patch kit is in the garage?!"

--Vic

I was a Navy EOD Diver and an on and off inshore commercial diver for a few
years afterwards. Too many spoiled - college drop out - dope smoking punks
in that business for me. I decided I needed to do something else when I came
up the ladder one night and found the dive supe and standby diver smoking
pot. Me and another diver were relying on those idiots to help us if we got
into trouble. I knew they'd eventually get someone killed but it wasn't
going to be me.
The commercial schools used to turn out good divers, now they're just like
too many things, as long as daddys check clears, junior is going to get a
certificate.
In 2nd class diving school, we were trained to use tooker patches, and use
soft patches, cut and weld .
A friend told me of an instance where he mixed up a bunch (2-3 cups) of
epoxy glue and put it in a paper plate which was then folded in half. The
target was a 4-5 inch hole in a hull caused by rubbing on a piling. He dove
down, unfolded the plate and jammed it against the hole, holding there for
the 10 minutes or so until the epoxy kicked. Afterwards, they raised the
hull to the gunnels by crane and pumped the water out.
I agree that a simple patch kit would be a darn good idea: a piece of 3/8"
plywood could be stowed under a cushion, the cushion itself, a scrap of sail
cloth and line bundled, tapered wooden plugs and a mallet, and some sort of
plan that the skipper has shared with the crew.
Tapered plugs and a mallet are a definite must have. I believe more boats
are sunk by fixture failures than running into things.
So, why not have a boat Vic? Even just looking at boats is theraputic.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:41:19 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..
Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against such an
arrangement.
If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

I don't have that but know of others who do. The raw water pump on a
large engine will typically pump 30 to 40 gallons per minute or more.
Raw water circulation on large salt water engines is almost always
through a heat exchanger instead of the engine block. If the boat is
sinking you do what you have to do.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:41:19 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..
Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against such
an
arrangement.
If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

I don't have that but know of others who do. The raw water pump on a
large engine will typically pump 30 to 40 gallons per minute or more.
Raw water circulation on large salt water engines is almost always
through a heat exchanger instead of the engine block. If the boat is
sinking you do what you have to do.



I have a Westerbeke 13. It uses raw water to the heat exchanger. I don't
think the 13 is considered a big engine. I've been thinking about making
this sort of connection. I believe I first heard about it in a mag.
article... SAIL or Cruising World.. can't remember. Seems like a good idea
for a last-resort situation.

If you don't have it and the boat sinks, the boat sinks. If you have it, and
it works, the boat doesn't sink. If you have it, and it clogs up the engine,
which then quits, the boat sinks, but you might buy yourself some time.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:41:19 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling
water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..
Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against such
an
arrangement.
If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

I don't have that but know of others who do. The raw water pump on a
large engine will typically pump 30 to 40 gallons per minute or more.
Raw water circulation on large salt water engines is almost always
through a heat exchanger instead of the engine block. If the boat is
sinking you do what you have to do.



I have a Westerbeke 13. It uses raw water to the heat exchanger. I don't
think the 13 is considered a big engine. I've been thinking about making
this sort of connection. I believe I first heard about it in a mag.
article... SAIL or Cruising World.. can't remember. Seems like a good idea
for a last-resort situation.

If you don't have it and the boat sinks, the boat sinks. If you have it,
and it works, the boat doesn't sink. If you have it, and it clogs up the
engine, which then quits, the boat sinks, but you might buy yourself some
time.


Another point worth mentioning is that you must be very careful to watch
progress.
Should the bypass manage to suck the bilge dry you will be running your
engine without cooling water