"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:41:19 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I
have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling
water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..
Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against
such an
arrangement.
If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

I don't have that but know of others who do. The raw water pump on a
large engine will typically pump 30 to 40 gallons per minute or more.
Raw water circulation on large salt water engines is almost always
through a heat exchanger instead of the engine block. If the boat is
sinking you do what you have to do.



I have a Westerbeke 13. It uses raw water to the heat exchanger. I don't
think the 13 is considered a big engine. I've been thinking about making
this sort of connection. I believe I first heard about it in a mag.
article... SAIL or Cruising World.. can't remember. Seems like a good
idea for a last-resort situation.

If you don't have it and the boat sinks, the boat sinks. If you have it,
and it works, the boat doesn't sink. If you have it, and it clogs up the
engine, which then quits, the boat sinks, but you might buy yourself some
time.


Another point worth mentioning is that you must be very careful to watch
progress.
Should the bypass manage to suck the bilge dry you will be running your
engine without cooling water

Yes, but I think I would be there watching... perhaps from the companion
way, so I could make a hasty retreat.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:42:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

I have a Westerbeke 13. It uses raw water to the heat exchanger. I don't
think the 13 is considered a big engine. I've been thinking about making
this sort of connection. I believe I first heard about it in a mag.
article... SAIL or Cruising World.. can't remember. Seems like a good idea
for a last-resort situation.

With an engine in that size range you'd probably get more pumping
capacity for your money with a large electric pump, maybe something
like this:

http://www.rule-industries.com/products/pumps/bilge_pumps/rule_3700/iid_261/index.htm

or

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O8F7RE

That would probably be 5 or 6 times the capacity of your raw water
pump.

On Oct 5, 6:05*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:42:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

I have a Westerbeke 13. It uses raw water to the heat exchanger. I don't
think the 13 is considered a big engine. I've been thinking about making
this sort of connection. I believe I first heard about it in a mag.
article... SAIL or Cruising World.. can't remember. Seems like a good idea
for a last-resort situation.

With an engine in that size range you'd probably get more pumping
capacity for your money with a large electric pump, maybe something
like this:

http://www.rule-industries.com/products/pumps/bilge_pumps/rule_3700/i...

or

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O8F7RE

That would probably be 5 or 6 times the capacity of your raw water
pump.

Much better alternative, IMHO ... for one thing, it can be routed to a
float switch & an alarm, so you know it's running, and if it's
running, you need it.

Usually if you have a leak so serious that using the engine raw water
pump to stop flooding, it's progressed too far for any diverters or Y-
suctions to do you any good.

Fresh Breezes- Doug K

On Oct 5, 1:42*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...





On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:41:19 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..
Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against such
an
arrangement.
If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

I don't have that but know of others who do. * The raw water pump on a
large engine will typically pump 30 to 40 gallons per minute or more.
Raw water circulation on large salt water engines is almost always
through a heat exchanger instead of the engine block. * If the boat is
sinking you do what you have to do.

I have a Westerbeke 13. It uses raw water to the heat exchanger. I don't
think the 13 is considered a big engine. I've been thinking about making
this sort of connection. I believe I first heard about it in a mag.
article... SAIL or Cruising World.. can't remember. Seems like a good idea
for a last-resort situation.

If you don't have it and the boat sinks, the boat sinks. If you have it, and
it works, the boat doesn't sink. If you have it, and it clogs up the engine,
which then quits, the boat sinks, but you might buy yourself some time.

--
"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your asking for problems jon. You will be more likely to loose an
engine than ever use the system. Y valves fail, plumbing leaks, ect..
overheated engine .. Just have a proper pump and a backup for the
pump. I've never seen any commerical boat set up with a diverter
system. If it were a good ideal they would be on every work boat.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Oct 5, 1:42 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...





On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:41:19 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

This facility is available on some small boat inlet strainers that I
have
seen but I think it is a bad idea as you do not want to put dirty bilge
water through your engine, as a modern engine has very small cooling
water
passages and any blockage there means big trouble..
Moreover, the capacity of an engine cooling pump is pretty small in
comparison with a decent bilge pump, which is another reason against
such
an
arrangement.
If you want to use the engine to pump your bilge, rig a belt driven high
capacity low head pump that will really shift some water.

I don't have that but know of others who do. The raw water pump on a
large engine will typically pump 30 to 40 gallons per minute or more.
Raw water circulation on large salt water engines is almost always
through a heat exchanger instead of the engine block. If the boat is
sinking you do what you have to do.

I have a Westerbeke 13. It uses raw water to the heat exchanger. I don't
think the 13 is considered a big engine. I've been thinking about making
this sort of connection. I believe I first heard about it in a mag.
article... SAIL or Cruising World.. can't remember. Seems like a good idea
for a last-resort situation.

If you don't have it and the boat sinks, the boat sinks. If you have it,
and
it works, the boat doesn't sink. If you have it, and it clogs up the
engine,
which then quits, the boat sinks, but you might buy yourself some time.

--
"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your asking for problems jon. You will be more likely to loose an
engine than ever use the system. Y valves fail, plumbing leaks, ect..
overheated engine .. Just have a proper pump and a backup for the
pump. I've never seen any commerical boat set up with a diverter
system. If it were a good ideal they would be on every work boat.


I have bronze seacocks that until recently hadn't been serviced in over 10
years. They worked perfectly. If I were going to do this, I would use
quality parts. I've never had a leak in any hose or connection, and I
inspect the critical ones regularly. I have main bilge and backup pumps. I
haven't made any decisions about doing this so far. I consider doing lots of
things to the boat but I probably do only 10 percent of them, being fairly
cautious about making changes.

Thanks for the advice/comments though... do appreciate it.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Vic,
It makes no sense. The inrush of water from a holed hull would sink the boat even with a big 2" pump going full tilt. I use a 2"
Japsco off the generator via a mud box driven by an electric clutch. The pump only slows things down to buy time to patch the
hole.
Steve

"Vic Smith" wrote in message ...
http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...px?NewsID=3766

Not much to do about the whales, but the diverter valves to the bilge
are sure a good idea.
Never heard of that before and never even thought about it.
Seems I should have, since I was damage control (HT) when I did a USNR
stint.
But even my can in the regular Navy didn't have diverters on the
fireroom steam fire pumps (I knew about every square inch of the
bilges, and all piping runs/valving.) Would make a huge difference in
dewatering.
A strainer and minimal maintenance are a requirement.
Fast access to the diverter valve is another requirement.
Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

--Vic

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 18:23:52 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Vic,
It makes no sense. The inrush of water from a holed hull would sink the boat even with a big 2" pump going full tilt. I use a 2"
Japsco off the generator via a mud box driven by an electric clutch. The pump only slows things down to buy time to patch the
hole.
Steve

Only know what I read in the cite. A small hole might be handled by
pumping. But I tend to agree with you about the patching.
I really think some boaters won't go in the water. Maybe can't swim
or are afraid of sharks or something.
Then you've got many hull locations which might get holed not being
readily accessible from the inside due to various planking, cabinetry,
etc.

--Vic

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:00:26 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...px?NewsID=3766

Not much to do about the whales, but the diverter valves to the bilge
are sure a good idea.
Never heard of that before and never even thought about it.
Seems I should have, since I was damage control (HT) when I did a USNR
stint.
But even my can in the regular Navy didn't have diverters on the
fireroom steam fire pumps (I knew about every square inch of the
bilges, and all piping runs/valving.) Would make a huge difference in
dewatering.
A strainer and minimal maintenance are a requirement.
Fast access to the diverter valve is another requirement.
Anybody have diverters to suck the bilge on their engine and genset
water intakes?

As a secondary device, I could see it, but your not going to get a lot
of pump out power through an engine water pump - what, maybe 20/25
gallons a minute? If that?

If you are going to go to the extent of retrofitting, why not just get
a big honkin' pump and run it off the gear box or engine front end?

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:19:09 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:


As a secondary device, I could see it, but your not going to get a lot
of pump out power through an engine water pump - what, maybe 20/25
gallons a minute? If that?

Sounds about right. Reason I mentioned it is Boatest claims they've
been recommending such diverters for years. And the article indicates
they made a difference when the boat was holed by the whale.

If you are going to go to the extent of retrofitting, why not just get
a big honkin' pump and run it off the gear box or engine front end?

The diverter is basically a Y valve, length of suction hose, and a
strainer on the end. An added real water pump might be hard to do
on some boats.
Anyway, I'm for bare hulls and outboards. Get a hole just break out
the bubble gum, or stick a big cork in it. Or something like that.
Here's the hairy casualty control stuff
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq102-4f.htm

Looks like the captain of the Hull stepped off the port bridge wing
into the ocean as she went over and survived to write his report.
Dewey (DD 349) has a lot of detail.
As a former snipe I found some of this stuff pretty amazing.
Glad I wasn't there.

--Vic