On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Actually the Constitution does not demand separation of church and state.
IT demands that a state religion not be enabled. There are lots if
religious references in the founding documents. They enabled any religion
to be practiced. As long as it did not harm others.

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Actually the Constitution does not demand separation of church and state.
IT demands that a state religion not be enabled. There are lots if
religious references in the founding documents. They enabled any religion
to be practiced. As long as it did not harm others.

"Demand"?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Seems relatively clear to me...

--
Nom=de=Plume

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"CalifBill" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Actually the Constitution does not demand separation of church and state.
IT demands that a state religion not be enabled. There are lots if
religious references in the founding documents. They enabled any
religion to be practiced. As long as it did not harm others.

"Demand"?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Seems relatively clear to me...

--
Nom=de=Plume


Yup, clear. Says the Congress shall not establish a religion, which would
be a state religion. Goes back to the Church of England. And they said you
could not prohibit the free exercise of a religion. Let religion put up a
cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill"
wrote:

Let religion put up a
cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property.

How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in
your town square?

The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group,
and you can't say no to bigger and better.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill"
wrote:

Let religion put up a
cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property.

How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in
your town square?

The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group,
and you can't say no to bigger and better.


Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all
religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a
Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher.
Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and
Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had
different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a
higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:47:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.

Ah, a breakthrough!

You would at least acknowledge that there are other 'belief systems'
than the purely evolutionary theory.

Good.