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vatican astronomer blasts creationism
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vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On 10/7/09 2:57 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:59:39 -0400, John H wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:18:36 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:21:38 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: Reasonable approach, but it doesn't solve the problem. They believe in something other than what is being taught. These are active and engaged students and directly challenge your presentation with what they believe to be true. What do you do? There is no problem. Ran into bible thumpers in some college classes. The profs handled them easily by telling them they were off the curriculum reservation and disturbing the flow of what was being taught. One told a persistent guy flat out, "Hey, I don't come into your church lecturing about literature. Have the decency to show me the same respect." What makes you think crackpots are hard to handle? Part of growing up as a crackpot is accepting rejection. And part of growing up as a non-crackpot is recognizing crackpots and rejecting them. And I'm sure that in my childhood Baptist church Pastor Anderson would have easily handled some crackpot disputing his sermon with talk of evolution and how wrong his sermon was. Kenny Rogers said it best. "You got to know when to hold them, and....." A lectern and a pulpit are different platforms. --Vic And the students immediately realize you've COPPED OUT 'cause you can't answer the question. Your credibility has just been shot. The teach would answer in the same manner Pastor Anderson would - with faith in what he's teaching. If you can't handle - or deflect - a student's questioning with authority, you shouldn't be teaching. --Vic There's no reason for a teacher to respond in detail or at length to a student question that is inappropriate for the class. If I were teaching a science class in the public schools and we were discussing evolution and a student attempted to raise "creationism" as an alternative, I would simply say "This is a science class and not the place to discuss religious beliefs." It's no cop-out to deflect the inappropriate. This is the problem with herring and those who "think" as he does. They actually believe they have the *right* to interject *their* religion into public school classrooms. Taliban-esque. Want to teach religion to K-12 students? Do it at your church or in your home. -- Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger: Idiots All |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:59:39 -0400, John H
wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:18:36 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:21:38 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: Reasonable approach, but it doesn't solve the problem. They believe in something other than what is being taught. These are active and engaged students and directly challenge your presentation with what they believe to be true. What do you do? There is no problem. Ran into bible thumpers in some college classes. The profs handled them easily by telling them they were off the curriculum reservation and disturbing the flow of what was being taught. One told a persistent guy flat out, "Hey, I don't come into your church lecturing about literature. Have the decency to show me the same respect." What makes you think crackpots are hard to handle? Part of growing up as a crackpot is accepting rejection. And part of growing up as a non-crackpot is recognizing crackpots and rejecting them. And I'm sure that in my childhood Baptist church Pastor Anderson would have easily handled some crackpot disputing his sermon with talk of evolution and how wrong his sermon was. Kenny Rogers said it best. "You got to know when to hold them, and....." A lectern and a pulpit are different platforms. --Vic And the students immediately realize you've COPPED OUT 'cause you can't answer the question. Your credibility has just been shot. The teach would answer in the same manner Pastor Anderson would - with faith in what he's teaching. If you can't handle - or deflect - a student's questioning with authority, you shouldn't be teaching. --Vic |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"H the K" wrote in message
m... There's no reason for a teacher to respond in detail or at length to a student question that is inappropriate for the class. If I were teaching a science class in the public schools and we were discussing evolution and a student attempted to raise "creationism" as an alternative, I would simply say "This is a science class and not the place to discuss religious beliefs." It's no cop-out to deflect the inappropriate. Correct. I had a short fiction class in college. Key word: fiction. One student decided to write a non-fiction article about economics. We had to read our work in front of the class. Within a minute or so, the prof realized it was non-fiction, and told him to stop, that he wasn't following the assignment. He protested, saying that it was an opinion piece. The prof said... in any case, it's not appropriate. End of discussion. -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"H the K" wrote in message
m... There's no reason for a teacher to respond in detail or at length to a student question that is inappropriate for the class. If I were teaching a science class in the public schools and we were discussing evolution and a student attempted to raise "creationism" as an alternative, I would simply say "This is a science class and not the place to discuss religious beliefs." It's no cop-out to deflect the inappropriate. Correct. I had a short fiction class in college. Key word: fiction. One student decided to write a non-fiction article about economics. We had to read our work in front of the class. Within a minute or so, the prof realized it was non-fiction, and told him to stop, that he wasn't following the assignment. He protested, saying that it was an opinion piece. The prof said... in any case, it's not appropriate. End of discussion. -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:57:45 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:59:39 -0400, John H wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:18:36 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:21:38 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: Reasonable approach, but it doesn't solve the problem. They believe in something other than what is being taught. These are active and engaged students and directly challenge your presentation with what they believe to be true. What do you do? There is no problem. Ran into bible thumpers in some college classes. The profs handled them easily by telling them they were off the curriculum reservation and disturbing the flow of what was being taught. One told a persistent guy flat out, "Hey, I don't come into your church lecturing about literature. Have the decency to show me the same respect." What makes you think crackpots are hard to handle? Part of growing up as a crackpot is accepting rejection. And part of growing up as a non-crackpot is recognizing crackpots and rejecting them. And I'm sure that in my childhood Baptist church Pastor Anderson would have easily handled some crackpot disputing his sermon with talk of evolution and how wrong his sermon was. Kenny Rogers said it best. "You got to know when to hold them, and....." A lectern and a pulpit are different platforms. --Vic And the students immediately realize you've COPPED OUT 'cause you can't answer the question. Your credibility has just been shot. The teach would answer in the same manner Pastor Anderson would - with faith in what he's teaching. If you can't handle - or deflect - a student's questioning with authority, you shouldn't be teaching. --Vic A copout with authority. Good. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:55:48 -0400, Gene
wrote: On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:01:21 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: Now that's a little harsh don't you think? No. A bit cynical, perhaps, but imminently practical. How long is a VATICAN astronomer going to be around aster making statements such as the following: "BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism." http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVa...perstition.htm "the idea of papal infallibility had been a "PR disaster"" http://www.christian-forum.net/index...ded&pid=140501 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Consolmagno No need to apoligize - you were just misinformed. :) |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message m... On 10/6/09 10:02 PM, tiny wrote: In , says... On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Oct 5, 5:04 pm, Vic wrote: What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't. I never thought of it that way, Vic. i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence. Woe is me.... For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence. that's kind of like asking me to (ask my wife if I can) cut my hair.. I/she would be lost without it;) Maybe washing it once a week would be enough for you. -- I bet the boys at the race track think that big haired/ponytailed look is fetching. "fetching", gay dummy? How cute! |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:47:06 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: Correct. I had a short fiction class in college. Key word: fiction. One student decided to write a non-fiction article about economics. We had to read our work in front of the class. Within a minute or so, the prof realized it was non-fiction, and told him to stop, that he wasn't following the assignment. He protested, saying that it was an opinion piece. The prof said... in any case, it's not appropriate. End of discussion. 1 - All economics is fiction. :) 2 - I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. You can not tell a middle school student - sorry, you're full of ****, now pay attention. I'm really surprized that none of you has come up with the answer. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:48:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: Correct. I had a short fiction class in college. Key word: fiction. One student decided to write a non-fiction article about economics. We had to read our work in front of the class. Within a minute or so, the prof realized it was non-fiction, and told him to stop, that he wasn't following the assignment. He protested, saying that it was an opinion piece. The prof said... in any case, it's not appropriate. End of discussion. You said that already. :) |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:47:06 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Correct. I had a short fiction class in college. Key word: fiction. One student decided to write a non-fiction article about economics. We had to read our work in front of the class. Within a minute or so, the prof realized it was non-fiction, and told him to stop, that he wasn't following the assignment. He protested, saying that it was an opinion piece. The prof said... in any case, it's not appropriate. End of discussion. 1 - All economics is fiction. :) 2 - I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. You can not tell a middle school student - sorry, you're full of ****, now pay attention. I'm really surprized that none of you has come up with the answer. What are you ranting about? This was a college level class. And, it's totally appropriate to tell a middle-school student to stop interrupting with things that are not part of the class. Talk about full of it... look in the mirror! -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:48:10 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Correct. I had a short fiction class in college. Key word: fiction. One student decided to write a non-fiction article about economics. We had to read our work in front of the class. Within a minute or so, the prof realized it was non-fiction, and told him to stop, that he wasn't following the assignment. He protested, saying that it was an opinion piece. The prof said... in any case, it's not appropriate. End of discussion. You said that already. :) So, you replied to it both times. I guess you never made a mistake. What a hero. -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "CalifBill" wrote in message ... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey. You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their belief system. What do you do? I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as are others who believe differently. I would also point out the differences between a belief system and the scientific method. Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their particular belief system is the only one that should have standing, demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence legistation and other governmental functions to that end. The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some people just don't get it. Thank you! Well said Wayne. -- Nom=de=Plume Actually the Constitution does not demand separation of church and state. IT demands that a state religion not be enabled. There are lots if religious references in the founding documents. They enabled any religion to be practiced. As long as it did not harm others. "Demand"? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." Seems relatively clear to me... -- Nom=de=Plume Yup, clear. Says the Congress shall not establish a religion, which would be a state religion. Goes back to the Church of England. And they said you could not prohibit the free exercise of a religion. Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill"
wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"CalifBill" wrote in message
m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
nom=de=plume wrote:
"CalifBill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. MINORITY VIEWS DON'T TRANSLATE TO MINORITY RIGHTS. HOW ARE MINORITY RIGHTS ANY DIFFERENT FROM MAJORITY RIGHTS. ANSWER THIS SWEETIE. HOW HAS AFIRMATIVE ACTION AFFECTED THE WHITE MANS RIGHT TO COMPETE FOR A JOB. You are so full of crap. Majority rules in the Supreme Court. Majority voted in a president I didn't and don't want. Are there federal laws prohibiting religeous symbols on private or public property? We let Congress critters decide major issues by writing laws and voting on them. And guess what, majority rules. How well is that going for us? I suppose that depends on who you ask. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On 10/8/09 2:33 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message m... wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. I think extreme vigilance is necessary to make sure the religious right doesn't turn this country into the christian theocracy it so fervently wants. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On 10/8/09 7:43 AM, H K wrote:
On 10/8/09 2:33 AM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message m... wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. I think extreme vigilance is necessary to make sure the religious right doesn't turn this country into the christian theocracy it so fervently wants. This is what the religious righties want: http://tinyurl.com/ybwkffz |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Oct 8, 6:49*am, H K wrote:
On 10/8/09 7:43 AM, H K wrote: On 10/8/09 2:33 AM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message news:Ee6dncFb4PIzHlDXnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@earthlink. com... wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher.. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. I think extreme vigilance is necessary to make sure the religious right doesn't turn this country into the christian theocracy it so fervently wants. This is what the religious righties want: http://tinyurl.com/ybwkffz Really? Is that what I want? Harry, I'm glad you know more about what I want than I do. Somebody needs to. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On 10/8/09 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:
On Oct 8, 6:49 am, H wrote: On 10/8/09 7:43 AM, H K wrote: On 10/8/09 2:33 AM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message m... wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. I think extreme vigilance is necessary to make sure the religious right doesn't turn this country into the christian theocracy it so fervently wants. This is what the religious righties want: http://tinyurl.com/ybwkffz Really? Is that what I want? Harry, I'm glad you know more about what I want than I do. Somebody needs to. I read your AOL emails... :) Actually, Tim, you're about the only "religious" rightie here whose opinions I respect. Go figure. -- Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger: Idiots All |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Oct 8, 7:14*am, H the K wrote:
On 10/8/09 8:08 AM, Tim wrote: On Oct 8, 6:49 am, H *wrote: On 10/8/09 7:43 AM, H K wrote: On 10/8/09 2:33 AM, nom=de=plume wrote: *wrote in message news:Ee6dncFb4PIzHlDXnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@earthlin k.com... *wrote in message om... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" *wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. I think extreme vigilance is necessary to make sure the religious right doesn't turn this country into the christian theocracy it so fervently wants. This is what the religious righties want: http://tinyurl.com/ybwkffz Really? Is that what I want? Harry, I'm glad you know more about what I want than I do. Somebody needs to. I read your AOL emails... * * :) Actually, Tim, you're about the only "religious" rightie here whose opinions I respect. Go figure. -- Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger: Idiots All Thanks Harry. ?;^ ) |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
In article ,
says... What a hero. Hummm, it is one of the OG posters / posers.... |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
In article 3b7149f8-8a92-4537-bae0-
, says... On Oct 8, 7:14*am, H the K wrote: On 10/8/09 8:08 AM, Tim wrote: On Oct 8, 6:49 am, H *wrote: On 10/8/09 7:43 AM, H K wrote: On 10/8/09 2:33 AM, nom=de=plume wrote: *wrote in message news:Ee6dncFb4PIzHlDXnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@earthlin k.com... *wrote in message om... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" *wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. I think extreme vigilance is necessary to make sure the religious right doesn't turn this country into the christian theocracy it so fervently wants. This is what the religious righties want: http://tinyurl.com/ybwkffz Really? Is that what I want? Harry, I'm glad you know more about what I want than I do. Somebody needs to. I read your AOL emails... * * :) Actually, Tim, you're about the only "religious" rightie here whose opinions I respect. Go figure. -- Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger: Idiots All Thanks Harry. ?;^ ) You gotta' be kidding me Tim... He will suck up to you until you get sick of him like Tom, Dick, and dozens if not hundreds of others here over the years.. The man is a gutless wonder, and only says what he thinks will garner him more attention... WAFA |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On 10/8/09 10:23 AM, Tosk wrote:
You gotta' be kidding me Tim... He will suck up to you until you get sick of him like Tom, Dick, and dozens if not hundreds of others here over the years.. The man is a gutless wonder, and only says what he thinks will garner him more attention... WAFA Scotty Ingersoll by any other handle still smells like ****. -- Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger: Idiots All |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"Tosk" wrote in message
... In article , says... What a hero. Hummm, it is one of the OG posters / posers.... What's OG? What's a Tosk? -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"Jim" wrote in message
... nom=de=plume wrote: "CalifBill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. MINORITY VIEWS DON'T TRANSLATE TO MINORITY RIGHTS. HOW ARE MINORITY RIGHTS ANY DIFFERENT FROM MAJORITY RIGHTS. ANSWER THIS SWEETIE. HOW HAS AFIRMATIVE ACTION AFFECTED THE WHITE MANS RIGHT TO COMPETE FOR A JOB. You are so full of crap. Majority rules in the Supreme Court. Majority voted in a president I didn't and don't want. Are there federal laws prohibiting religeous symbols on private or public property? We let Congress critters decide major issues by writing laws and voting on them. And guess what, majority rules. How well is that going for us? I suppose that depends on who you ask. I really don't like your condescending bs. Get a life. If you can't speak without yelling or trying to put me "in my place," you have no business in a rational discussion. It's totally obnoxious. The majority has the responsibility to protect the rights of the minority. If you don't believe that, then you're not much of an American. -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"Jim" wrote in message
... nom=de=plume wrote: "CalifBill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. MINORITY VIEWS DON'T TRANSLATE TO MINORITY RIGHTS. HOW ARE MINORITY RIGHTS ANY DIFFERENT FROM MAJORITY RIGHTS. ANSWER THIS SWEETIE. HOW HAS AFIRMATIVE ACTION AFFECTED THE WHITE MANS RIGHT TO COMPETE FOR A JOB. You are so full of crap. Majority rules in the Supreme Court. Majority voted in a president I didn't and don't want. Are there federal laws prohibiting religeous symbols on private or public property? We let Congress critters decide major issues by writing laws and voting on them. And guess what, majority rules. How well is that going for us? I suppose that depends on who you ask. In fact, I think you should just plonk me immediately, since you obviously don't want to hear what I have to say. Go for it. Please. -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On 10/8/09 1:15 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message ... nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message m... wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. MINORITY VIEWS DON'T TRANSLATE TO MINORITY RIGHTS. HOW ARE MINORITY RIGHTS ANY DIFFERENT FROM MAJORITY RIGHTS. ANSWER THIS SWEETIE. HOW HAS AFIRMATIVE ACTION AFFECTED THE WHITE MANS RIGHT TO COMPETE FOR A JOB. You are so full of crap. Majority rules in the Supreme Court. Majority voted in a president I didn't and don't want. Are there federal laws prohibiting religeous symbols on private or public property? We let Congress critters decide major issues by writing laws and voting on them. And guess what, majority rules. How well is that going for us? I suppose that depends on who you ask. I really don't like your condescending bs. Get a life. If you can't speak without yelling or trying to put me "in my place," you have no business in a rational discussion. It's totally obnoxious. The majority has the responsibility to protect the rights of the minority. If you don't believe that, then you're not much of an American. Flajim's wife, if he has one, probably beats the crap out of him...thus, he lashes out at...you. -- Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger: Idiots All |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "CalifBill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. -- Nom=de=Plume You have an established religion, put up your symbols for your holiday. Simple. Does not matter what religion. As long as it gets a religious tax ID, go for it. The people own the public lands, not the government! We own the government. Does not seem that way these days, but maybe if we get serious and vote out those owned by lobbiests, we will get OUR governments back. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"H K" wrote in message ... On 10/8/09 7:43 AM, H K wrote: On 10/8/09 2:33 AM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message m... wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. I think extreme vigilance is necessary to make sure the religious right doesn't turn this country into the christian theocracy it so fervently wants. This is what the religious righties want: http://tinyurl.com/ybwkffz And the extreme left want their version of religion to rule us. The Muslims want to rule the world. So we none of them get control. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
"CalifBill" wrote in message
m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "CalifBill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. -- Nom=de=Plume You have an established religion, put up your symbols for your holiday. Simple. Does not matter what religion. As long as it gets a religious tax ID, go for it. The people own the public lands, not the government! We own the government. Does not seem that way these days, but maybe if we get serious and vote out those owned by lobbiests, we will get OUR governments back. An established religion? A tax ID? Sounds like it's government promoting religion by giving tax breaks and determining who can and can't claim to be part of a religious order. I'm not in favor of any tax breaks for religions. If they can stand on their own, fine. If not, too bad. -- Nom=de=Plume |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message ... nom=de=plume wrote: "CalifBill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. MINORITY VIEWS DON'T TRANSLATE TO MINORITY RIGHTS. HOW ARE MINORITY RIGHTS ANY DIFFERENT FROM MAJORITY RIGHTS. ANSWER THIS SWEETIE. HOW HAS AFIRMATIVE ACTION AFFECTED THE WHITE MANS RIGHT TO COMPETE FOR A JOB. You are so full of crap. Majority rules in the Supreme Court. Majority voted in a president I didn't and don't want. Are there federal laws prohibiting religeous symbols on private or public property? We let Congress critters decide major issues by writing laws and voting on them. And guess what, majority rules. How well is that going for us? I suppose that depends on who you ask. I really don't like your condescending bs. Get a life. If you can't speak without yelling or trying to put me "in my place," you have no business in a rational discussion. It's totally obnoxious. The majority has the responsibility to protect the rights of the minority. If you don't believe that, then you're not much of an American. You make absolutely no sense, Lady. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
H the K wrote:
On 10/8/09 1:15 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message m... wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. MINORITY VIEWS DON'T TRANSLATE TO MINORITY RIGHTS. HOW ARE MINORITY RIGHTS ANY DIFFERENT FROM MAJORITY RIGHTS. ANSWER THIS SWEETIE. HOW HAS AFIRMATIVE ACTION AFFECTED THE WHITE MANS RIGHT TO COMPETE FOR A JOB. You are so full of crap. Majority rules in the Supreme Court. Majority voted in a president I didn't and don't want. Are there federal laws prohibiting religeous symbols on private or public property? We let Congress critters decide major issues by writing laws and voting on them. And guess what, majority rules. How well is that going for us? I suppose that depends on who you ask. I really don't like your condescending bs. Get a life. If you can't speak without yelling or trying to put me "in my place," you have no business in a rational discussion. It's totally obnoxious. The majority has the responsibility to protect the rights of the minority. If you don't believe that, then you're not much of an American. Flajim's wife, if he has one, probably beats the crap out of him...thus, he lashes out at...you. **** off, Krause |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message ... nom=de=plume wrote: "CalifBill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. MINORITY VIEWS DON'T TRANSLATE TO MINORITY RIGHTS. HOW ARE MINORITY RIGHTS ANY DIFFERENT FROM MAJORITY RIGHTS. ANSWER THIS SWEETIE. HOW HAS AFIRMATIVE ACTION AFFECTED THE WHITE MANS RIGHT TO COMPETE FOR A JOB. You are so full of crap. Majority rules in the Supreme Court. Majority voted in a president I didn't and don't want. Are there federal laws prohibiting religeous symbols on private or public property? We let Congress critters decide major issues by writing laws and voting on them. And guess what, majority rules. How well is that going for us? I suppose that depends on who you ask. In fact, I think you should just plonk me immediately, since you obviously don't want to hear what I have to say. Go for it. Please. And allow you and krause and all the other bleading heart libs free rein on rec.boats. Not a chance. |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
nom=de=plume wrote:
"CalifBill" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "CalifBill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. -- Nom=de=Plume You have an established religion, put up your symbols for your holiday. Simple. Does not matter what religion. As long as it gets a religious tax ID, go for it. The people own the public lands, not the government! We own the government. Does not seem that way these days, but maybe if we get serious and vote out those owned by lobbiests, we will get OUR governments back. An established religion? A tax ID? Sounds like it's government promoting religion by giving tax breaks and determining who can and can't claim to be part of a religious order. I'm not in favor of any tax breaks for religions. If they can stand on their own, fine. If not, too bad. Don't religious organizations enjoy tax exempt status? |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:07:07 -0700, nom=de=plume wrote:
An established religion? A tax ID? Sounds like it's government promoting religion by giving tax breaks and determining who can and can't claim to be part of a religious order. I'm not in favor of any tax breaks for religions. If they can stand on their own, fine. If not, too bad. That will open it's own can of worms, and how does that fit with the First Amendment's "the free exercise thereof"? |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
In article ,
says... "Tosk" wrote in message ... In article , says... What a hero. Hummm, it is one of the OG posters / posers.... What's OG? What's a Tosk? OG? ... Old Gangster, Old Guard. In this case, Harry, Jim H, Joe Spare Bedroom, or a few others who you could be;) Tosk? "I am Tosk"... "I am Tosk..." |
vatican astronomer blasts creationism
In article , says...
H the K wrote: On 10/8/09 1:15 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message m... wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:59:42 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: Let religion put up a cross, menora, etc on public property. The people own the property. How would you feel about Muslim or Rastafarian religious symbols in your town square? The problem is that once you start you can't say no to the next group, and you can't say no to bigger and better. Since I am an semi agnostic married to a Catholic, I can accept all religions putting up displays in the town square. I was married by a Monsignor in a Catholic Church with a JW best man, and a Jewish usher. Locally the Jewish community puts up a Menorah during their holidays, and Christians put up Christmas Displays during their holidays, and we have had different religions also. Seems to work fine. I believe there may be a higher power, but not sure what it is. May be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who gets to decide what symbol gets put up? You can say... oh, let the locals decided, but how do you deal with the various minority views that are inevitable? It can't be a simple majority, because it's the obligation of the majority to protect the rights of the minority. If you put a cross or spire, you're basically promoting a religion, which without much of a stretch is prohibiting others from doing so. You're taking sides. The simplest thing to do is to prohibit all symbols. MINORITY VIEWS DON'T TRANSLATE TO MINORITY RIGHTS. HOW ARE MINORITY RIGHTS ANY DIFFERENT FROM MAJORITY RIGHTS. ANSWER THIS SWEETIE. HOW HAS AFIRMATIVE ACTION AFFECTED THE WHITE MANS RIGHT TO COMPETE FOR A JOB. You are so full of crap. Majority rules in the Supreme Court. Majority voted in a president I didn't and don't want. Are there federal laws prohibiting religeous symbols on private or public property? We let Congress critters decide major issues by writing laws and voting on them. And guess what, majority rules. How well is that going for us? I suppose that depends on who you ask. I really don't like your condescending bs. Get a life. If you can't speak without yelling or trying to put me "in my place," you have no business in a rational discussion. It's totally obnoxious. The majority has the responsibility to protect the rights of the minority. If you don't believe that, then you're not much of an American. Flajim's wife, if he has one, probably beats the crap out of him...thus, he lashes out at...you. **** off, Krause Here is your answer son...;) http://mpgravity.sourceforge.net/ Then, filter, filter, filter... if you need a free fast news server to go with that try eternal-september.org Both easy to set up. And you really won't miss the bozo's anyway. When you get fed up with somebodys irrational name calling festivals, you hit one button and don't see them anymore, it's easy. |
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