vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:14:30 -0400, Jim wrote:

You go girl.

I give up - I can't follow the thread anymore.

Damn... :)


Jim was just empowering me with self-esteem, as though I need it. :-)

--
Nom=de=Plume

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:14:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:14:30 -0400, Jim wrote:

You go girl.

I give up - I can't follow the thread anymore.

Damn... :)

Jim was just empowering me with self-esteem, as though I need it. :-)

Oh - look - Shiney object!!!

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article 3682f84e-bd80-4bc3-aed1-
, says...

On Oct 5, 7:48*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

Wafa is an ignorant idiot, but of course you must just be mocking him
because nobody could really take him seriously...

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 2:36 PM, CalifBill wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 1:59 AM, CalifBill wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/5/09 3:56 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:55:29 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

All science is based on "viewpoints". What the heck do you think
drives scientific inquiry? One scientist's view is that Global
Warming
is real. A different scientist looking at the same data calls
bulls**t. Openheimer felt that testing an atom bomb would set the
atmosphere on fire. Others didn't.

None of those "viewpoints" are science however, just opinions or
hypotheses. They become science, or not, after evaluation of the
underlying theory (if any), experimental proof by multiple
individuals, and peer review. Then it's not a viewpoint any longer.


There isn't a thimbleful of evidence of any sort to support
creationism.



How did everything first start?



One of SW Tom's alien ancestors was making a firecracker to show off for
his buddies, and it got a little out of hand...resulting in a Big Bang.



Where did the alien get his start?



From his mommy and daddy, of course.



Maybe they are related to Amoebas. Divide and conquer. Where did Mom and
Dad's predessors spring from?

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 2:42 PM, CalifBill wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 8:27 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 06:57:21 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 07:42:08 -0400, H the K wrote:


Prayers and religious teachings have no place in public K-12 schools.
You want kids to learn your religion? Send them to a religious
school.

Exactly, we expect and demand the government to stay out of our
churches. It's not the government's responsibility to teach religion.
That's what parents, churches, and religious schools are for.

Let me ask you this.

Would it be acceptable to teach the subject of creationism as part of
the social sciences education? If not, why not?


No. It would be the teaching of a superstitious religious belief.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Then why teach "science"? Lot of science is beliefs. Lots of beliefs
that
have fallen by the wayside. Can not move faster than the speed of sound.
Lots say we can not go faster than the speed of light. Even Einstein did
not claim that. Just that it would take infinite energy. How can
photon's
get to the speed of light and not use all available energy? You want to
teach only your beliefs. Maybe your beliefs are as screwed up as other
nutcases.



With the passage of time, scientific knowledge expands, and theories are
either proven, expanded, discarded or wait their turn for further proof.
There is not a scintilla of proof for "creationism" or more important, for
the existence of "god." It's all faith-based.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Maybe the scintilla is just around the corner. You want to stop all looking
for the Scintilla.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 5:45 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:49:39 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:27:50 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:


Would it be acceptable to teach the subject of creationism as part of
the social sciences education? If not, why not?

Perhaps, if you include all creationist theories, not just the Christian
one, the Greek Chaos, etc. If you limit yourself to one creation
theory,
you run right into the establishment clause of the First Amendment.

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?


Tell them that discussion of their religious beliefs is appropriate at
home, in religious school, or at their house of worship, but not in a
public school.




And they reply the where is the proof of Evolution, Darwinism is still being
questioned, which started this thread.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:


Perhaps, if you include all creationist theories, not just the Christian
one, the Greek Chaos, etc. If you limit yourself to one creation
theory, you run right into the establishment clause of the First
Amendment.

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A honor
roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as part of
their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their belief system.

What do you do?

These things do get tricky, don't they? As a school teacher it would be
my job to teach evolution, not discourage their belief system. I would
continue to teach evolution, but, I can't see any positive results from
getting into a discussion of their religious tenants.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article d5246d62-d008-48df-86a1-36dd5b083917
@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com, says...

On Oct 5, 8:31*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* * *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* * *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* * *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* *I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

**** him, he really doesn't really mean it. I have never had anybody
push religeon on any of my family, but many times have had athiests push
their agenda on them and me, mocking our beliefs...

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On 10/6/09 8:31 PM, tiny wrote:

**** him, he really doesn't really mean it. I have never had anybody
push religeon on any of my family, but many times have had athiests push
their agenda on them and me, mocking our beliefs...


Atheists ring Justhate's doorbell on weekday nights, trying to convert
the Justhates to atheists.





--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article 21f4b407-4f49-4843-a8b2-
, says...

On Oct 5, 9:00*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:57 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:54 pm, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:40 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:31 pm, H the * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the * * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * * *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * * *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* * * * *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* * *I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

You'll get no argument from me, so long as creationism is not taught in
the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

harry, I take it you wouldnt' consider it an option. so....

I suppose we could argue.

But i won't

A *taught* option in the public schools?

Absolutely not.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Everything in school is "Taught" Harry. Otherwise it wouldn't' be a
school.

Harry only wants his brand of socialism taught in schools. His type
can't handle open debate so they just ban or mock opposing opinions..
Still don't see why intelligent folks would fool with the fat little
****er...

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:14:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:14:30 -0400, Jim wrote:

You go girl.

I give up - I can't follow the thread anymore.

Damn... :)

Jim was just empowering me with self-esteem, as though I need it. :-)

Oh - look - Shiney object!!!


Ok, now I'm not following...

--
Nom=de=Plume

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:56:05 -0400, JohnRant
wrote:

The origins of man have not been proven. Until they are done so, there
is no harm in presenting what several billion (see, I fixed it)
believe, even if presented only as a belief without proof.

That's fine, just don't present it in a science class because there is
no science to it.

But you would teach evolution which has about as much science behind it
as global taxing...

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article ,
says...

"JohnRant" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:43:26 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:59 -0400, JohnH wrote:


Isn't it strange that this mental development happened to only one of
the animals that lived over those hundreds of thousands of years?

Did it? Or are we just now understanding animal development? Hell, even
the lowly crow has been witnessed problem solving and using tools. And
language? Many, many, species communicate both verbally and physically.

Tell me when one of them develops and produces something to increase
its food supply. Guano doesn't count.

I'm not going to argue with your idea that other animals have the
mental reasoning capacity as human. If you believe so, fine. I *will*
agree that some humans seem to have the reasoning capacity of slugs.

We have a couple right here.
--
John H

All decisions, even those of liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

Ants farm. Bring in grass and leaves that symbiotic bacteria grow on,
giving the ants the final food product.

Do they understand the process or is it just instinct?

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:28:09 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:


Perhaps, if you include all creationist theories, not just the Christian
one, the Greek Chaos, etc. If you limit yourself to one creation
theory, you run right into the establishment clause of the First
Amendment.

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A honor
roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as part of
their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their belief system.

What do you do?

These things do get tricky, don't they? As a school teacher it would be
my job to teach evolution, not discourage their belief system. I would
continue to teach evolution, but, I can't see any positive results from
getting into a discussion of their religious tenants.

Reasonable approach, but it doesn't solve the problem. They believe
in something other than what is being taught. These are active and
engaged students and directly challenge your presentation with what
they believe to be true.

What do you do?

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"tiny" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"JohnRant" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:43:26 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:59 -0400, JohnH wrote:


Isn't it strange that this mental development happened to only one of
the animals that lived over those hundreds of thousands of years?

Did it? Or are we just now understanding animal development? Hell,
even
the lowly crow has been witnessed problem solving and using tools. And
language? Many, many, species communicate both verbally and
physically.

Tell me when one of them develops and produces something to increase
its food supply. Guano doesn't count.

I'm not going to argue with your idea that other animals have the
mental reasoning capacity as human. If you believe so, fine. I *will*
agree that some humans seem to have the reasoning capacity of slugs.

We have a couple right here.
--
John H

All decisions, even those of liberals, are the result of binary
thinking.

Ants farm. Bring in grass and leaves that symbiotic bacteria grow on,
giving the ants the final food product.

Do they understand the process or is it just instinct?

Where did they get the instinct? Even humans have instincts. A baby will
normally not crawl across a clear panel between tables. Where did that
instinct come from. When we lived in trees, and learned not to fall out of
them?

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:59 -0400, JohnH
wrote:


Isn't it strange that this mental development happened to only one of
the animals that lived over those hundreds of thousands of years?

Not to me. Standing upright and having an opposable thumb made humans
king of the hill. Then further natural selection developed further
mentality.
I suspect that if homo sapiens were wiped away, one of the other
primates would eventually evolve to take his place.
Just like Planet of the Apes.

You have got to be kidding us....

Either that, or God would take care of it.
What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

--Vic

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

I never thought of it that way, Vic.

i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence.

Woe is me....

For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential
inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence.
that's kind of like asking me to (ask my wife if I can) cut my hair..
I/she would be lost without it;)

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On 10/6/09 10:02 PM, tiny wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04 pm, Vic wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

I never thought of it that way, Vic.

i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence.

Woe is me....

For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential
inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence.
that's kind of like asking me to (ask my wife if I can) cut my hair..
I/she would be lost without it;)



Maybe washing it once a week would be enough for you.


--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 9:11*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

I never thought of it that way, Vic.

i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence.

Woe is me....

For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential
inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence.

Tom, I appreciate the offer, but I have plenty of .22 shells.

I didn't mean blow holes in your head to increase ventilation
resulting in cooling that increases your intellect.

~~ sheesh ~~

oooops, you mean I wasn't supposed to....???

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On 10/6/09 11:20 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:49:32 -0400, tiny
wrote:

In ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:59 -0400,
wrote:


Isn't it strange that this mental development happened to only one of
the animals that lived over those hundreds of thousands of years?

Not to me. Standing upright and having an opposable thumb made humans
king of the hill. Then further natural selection developed further
mentality.
I suspect that if homo sapiens were wiped away, one of the other
primates would eventually evolve to take his place.
Just like Planet of the Apes.

You have got to be kidding us....


Guess you don't like Roddy McDowall, eh?

--Vic


Nah...he's afraid of the competition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 10:02 PM, tiny wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04 pm, Vic wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

I never thought of it that way, Vic.

i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence.

Woe is me....

For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential
inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence.
that's kind of like asking me to (ask my wife if I can) cut my hair..
I/she would be lost without it;)



Maybe washing it once a week would be enough for you.


--

I bet the boys at the race track think that big haired/ponytailed look is
fetching.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:21:38 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:


Reasonable approach, but it doesn't solve the problem. They believe
in something other than what is being taught. These are active and
engaged students and directly challenge your presentation with what
they believe to be true.

What do you do?

There is no problem.
Ran into bible thumpers in some college classes.
The profs handled them easily by telling them they were off the
curriculum reservation and disturbing the flow of what was being
taught.
One told a persistent guy flat out, "Hey, I don't come into your
church lecturing about literature. Have the decency to show me the
same respect."
What makes you think crackpots are hard to handle?
Part of growing up as a crackpot is accepting rejection.
And part of growing up as a non-crackpot is recognizing crackpots and
rejecting them.
And I'm sure that in my childhood Baptist church Pastor Anderson would
have easily handled some crackpot disputing his sermon with talk of
evolution and how wrong his sermon was.
Kenny Rogers said it best. "You got to know when to hold them,
and....."
A lectern and a pulpit are different platforms.

--Vic

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:49:32 -0400, tiny
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:59 -0400, JohnH
wrote:


Isn't it strange that this mental development happened to only one of
the animals that lived over those hundreds of thousands of years?

Not to me. Standing upright and having an opposable thumb made humans
king of the hill. Then further natural selection developed further
mentality.
I suspect that if homo sapiens were wiped away, one of the other
primates would eventually evolve to take his place.
Just like Planet of the Apes.

You have got to be kidding us....


Guess you don't like Roddy McDowall, eh?

--Vic

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Oct 5, 9:50*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Oct 5, 9:11*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Actually the Constitution does not demand separation of church and state.
IT demands that a state religion not be enabled. There are lots if
religious references in the founding documents. They enabled any religion
to be practiced. As long as it did not harm others.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Actually the Constitution does not demand separation of church and state.
IT demands that a state religion not be enabled. There are lots if
religious references in the founding documents. They enabled any religion
to be practiced. As long as it did not harm others.

"Demand"?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Seems relatively clear to me...

--
Nom=de=Plume

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:31:23 -0400, tiny
wrote:

In article 3682f84e-bd80-4bc3-aed1-
, says...

On Oct 5, 7:48*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

Wafa is an ignorant idiot, but of course you must just be mocking him
because nobody could really take him seriously...

Tim is getting more subtle with each passing day.

Soon he'll be so subtle *he* won't be sure of what he meant.

:) :) :) :)

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:28:09 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:


Perhaps, if you include all creationist theories, not just the Christian
one, the Greek Chaos, etc. If you limit yourself to one creation
theory, you run right into the establishment clause of the First
Amendment.

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A honor
roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as part of
their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their belief system.

What do you do?

These things do get tricky, don't they? As a school teacher it would be
my job to teach evolution, not discourage their belief system. I would
continue to teach evolution, but, I can't see any positive results from
getting into a discussion of their religious tenants.

What do you, Mr Teacher, say when they ask where man got the ability
to reason?

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:18:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:21:38 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:


Reasonable approach, but it doesn't solve the problem. They believe
in something other than what is being taught. These are active and
engaged students and directly challenge your presentation with what
they believe to be true.

What do you do?

There is no problem.
Ran into bible thumpers in some college classes.
The profs handled them easily by telling them they were off the
curriculum reservation and disturbing the flow of what was being
taught.
One told a persistent guy flat out, "Hey, I don't come into your
church lecturing about literature. Have the decency to show me the
same respect."
What makes you think crackpots are hard to handle?
Part of growing up as a crackpot is accepting rejection.
And part of growing up as a non-crackpot is recognizing crackpots and
rejecting them.
And I'm sure that in my childhood Baptist church Pastor Anderson would
have easily handled some crackpot disputing his sermon with talk of
evolution and how wrong his sermon was.
Kenny Rogers said it best. "You got to know when to hold them,
and....."
A lectern and a pulpit are different platforms.

--Vic

And the students immediately realize you've COPPED OUT 'cause you
can't answer the question. Your credibility has just been shot.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:01:21 -0400, tiny
wrote:

In article 21f4b407-4f49-4843-a8b2-
, says...

On Oct 5, 9:00*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:57 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:54 pm, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:40 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:31 pm, H the * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the * * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * * *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * * *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* * * * *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* * *I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

You'll get no argument from me, so long as creationism is not taught in
the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

harry, I take it you wouldnt' consider it an option. so....

I suppose we could argue.

But i won't

A *taught* option in the public schools?

Absolutely not.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Everything in school is "Taught" Harry. Otherwise it wouldn't' be a
school.

Harry only wants his brand of socialism taught in schools. His type
can't handle open debate so they just ban or mock opposing opinions..
Still don't see why intelligent folks would fool with the fat little
****er...

Keep your eyes open - most don't.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 18:33:16 -0700, "CalifBill"
wrote:


"tiny" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"JohnRant" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:43:26 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:59 -0400, JohnH wrote:


Isn't it strange that this mental development happened to only one of
the animals that lived over those hundreds of thousands of years?

Did it? Or are we just now understanding animal development? Hell,
even
the lowly crow has been witnessed problem solving and using tools. And
language? Many, many, species communicate both verbally and
physically.

Tell me when one of them develops and produces something to increase
its food supply. Guano doesn't count.

I'm not going to argue with your idea that other animals have the
mental reasoning capacity as human. If you believe so, fine. I *will*
agree that some humans seem to have the reasoning capacity of slugs.

We have a couple right here.
--
John H

All decisions, even those of liberals, are the result of binary
thinking.

Ants farm. Bring in grass and leaves that symbiotic bacteria grow on,
giving the ants the final food product.

Do they understand the process or is it just instinct?

Where did they get the instinct? Even humans have instincts. A baby will
normally not crawl across a clear panel between tables. Where did that
instinct come from. When we lived in trees, and learned not to fall out of
them?


Well, it was probably from a Higher Power of some sort, since it's
otherwise unexplainable. Right?

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:47:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.

Ah, a breakthrough!

You would at least acknowledge that there are other 'belief systems'
than the purely evolutionary theory.

Good.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 07:42:08 -0400, H the K wrote:


Prayers and religious teachings have no place in public K-12 schools.
You want kids to learn your religion? Send them to a religious school.

Exactly, we expect and demand the government to stay out of our
churches. It's not the government's responsibility to teach religion.
That's what parents, churches, and religious schools are for.

Well unless it's wica or islam, right??

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On 10/7/09 8:42 AM, tiny wrote:
In inet,
says...

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 07:42:08 -0400, H the K wrote:


Prayers and religious teachings have no place in public K-12 schools.
You want kids to learn your religion? Send them to a religious school.

Exactly, we expect and demand the government to stay out of our
churches. It's not the government's responsibility to teach religion.
That's what parents, churches, and religious schools are for.

Well unless it's wica or islam, right??


It's wicca, not wica. Crikey.

And wicca is no more or less bizarre than any other religion based upon
superstition, folk tales, and man's inability, so far, to explain
everything in and about the natural world.

I had no idea wicca was being practiced in the public schools. Of
course, it has been a long time since I was a schoolchild in your state.



--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:11:39 -0400, H the K
wrote:

... and man's inability, so far, to explain
everything in and about the natural world.


I take it you give no credence to the "God" gene?

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On 10/7/09 9:34 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:11:39 -0400, H the K
wrote:

... and man's inability, so far, to explain
everything in and about the natural world.


I take it you give no credence to the "God" gene?


Heheh. No. None.


Fear of the unknown (weather, fire, famine, et cetera) was the precursor
of religion. Man invented and prayed to gods to protect him from the
vagaries of fate and nature.

Religion evolved. The gods become more or less humanized in appearance,
and became statues that were worshipped. A few thousand years later, as
man's brain further evolved, the necessity for the physical embodiment
of a god dissipated, and the idea of what god was became cerebral and
emotional.

I will not dispute that billions of people take comfort in thinking
there is a god. But that doesn't mean there is one. Today, the idea of a
god serves the same purpose as it dead for our earliest ancestors, as a
protector from the vagaries of fate and nature, and bundled up in that
belief, an idea that there is life beyond death.

Is man a creation of god? Or is god a creation of man?

One thing we do know for su christianity is a creation of man.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:54:21 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 10/7/09 9:34 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:11:39 -0400, H the K
wrote:

... and man's inability, so far, to explain
everything in and about the natural world.


I take it you give no credence to the "God" gene?


Heheh. No. None.


Fear of the unknown (weather, fire, famine, et cetera) was the precursor
of religion. Man invented and prayed to gods to protect him from the
vagaries of fate and nature.

Religion evolved. The gods become more or less humanized in appearance,
and became statues that were worshipped. A few thousand years later, as
man's brain further evolved, the necessity for the physical embodiment
of a god dissipated, and the idea of what god was became cerebral and
emotional.

I will not dispute that billions of people take comfort in thinking
there is a god. But that doesn't mean there is one. Today, the idea of a
god serves the same purpose as it dead for our earliest ancestors, as a
protector from the vagaries of fate and nature, and bundled up in that
belief, an idea that there is life beyond death.

Is man a creation of god? Or is god a creation of man?

One thing we do know for su christianity is a creation of man.

This is the official version? If Dean Hamer's version is open to
skepticism, shouldn't your version be open to skepticism?
(Isn't it somewhat remarkable how some people just 'know' things?)

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

vatican astronomer blasts creationism