On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:00:32 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

On Sep 17, 9:35*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:06:42 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:





On Sep 17, 8:47*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:53:11 -0700 (PDT), Katie Ohara

wrote:
On Sep 17, 6:30*pm, Tim wrote:
On Sep 17, 4:32*pm, Jack wrote:

On Sep 17, 3:24*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:02:45 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
On Sep 17, 2:24*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:33:19 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
Bought a 3700 gph Rule pump for the Tolman just in case I take a lot
of water. *My normal bilge pump is a 750 gph one. *I intend to find
some smooth bore hose for it and some oversized wire to power it.
Downside is, it was expensive and I will probably never use it. *Might
even get a dedicated battery for it.

You should only have to match the wire guage of the leads on your pump
for your wiring.

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I will probably go up one wire guage due to the long run from the
battery that will be on the floor of the bow. My reason for getting
this pump is reading David Pascoes advice on the topic.

You can go up a gauge; but, there's really no reason to do so. *The
leads will be rated for the load. *What you'll generally run into on
considerable wire lengths is a nominal increase in resistance. *Are
your leads 16awg? *14 awg would work. *Where persons can get into
trouble is going with smaller awg sizes.

Your absolutely correct that going to a smaller wire size is what gets
most people into trouble. *However, I wouldn't go with anything
smaller than 12ga, and 10ga would be better.

That pump is ratted at 15.5 amps @ 12vdc, and 20 amps @ 13.6vdc.
Basing on a 25 foot *run or wire, and depending on how you come at it,
the wire resistance of the smaller 14-16ga wire could have you
dropping 3 - 4 volts down the wire. *The pump will not work nearly as
well when it's only getting 9 - 10 *volts.

At least with the 12 or 10ga wire, you're reducing the copper loss
down to 1 - 2 volts, and the pump will thank you.

Take a look athttp://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm*At the bottom
of the page is a calculator that will let you plug in the voltage,
current, length and wire size, and will tell you the copper loss and
end voltage.

Good luck!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I vote 10g.

When I built the Tolman, I found 00 gage fully tinned battery cable
for $3.00/ft on ebay and I used about 36' total (18' of black and 18'
of red).

Fully tinned or aluminum? *Quite often persons will mistake tinned
copper for aluminum and aluminum for tinned copper. *Generally welding
cable will have a straight copper construction. *Too, the higher MCM,
i.e. 2/0, building wires like THHN will often be of an aluminum
construction. *These are typical constructions though. *There are
non-standard constructions out there. *

True, but THHN is not spec'd to be used in a low-voltage boat wiring
project. *My undestanding is that it, by definition, is a copper wire
that is rated for residential and commercial building, to be installed
in conduit or raceways. *There certainly is aluminum equivalent out
there and lots of people use it to reduce cost, but it's not supposed
to be designated THHN. *Also is pretty inflexible.

The THHN designation essentially describes the insulation type, and
you are right in stating the general applications where the wire using
this type of construction is generally used. *THHN wire can be
manufactured with either copper or an aluminum alloy. *Quite often the
larger gauge constructions will use aluminum to reduce the cost of the
product. *But, I've had more than one occasion where persons have
confused aluminum with tinned copper and vice versa, not that this is
true if Frogger's case.


Maybe things have changed, but the following explains my understanding
of the THHN designation:

1. SCOPE
1.1 This specification describes single conductor Rome THWN or THHN, a
general purpose building wire insulated
with polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and covered with a tough protective
sheath of nylon intended for lighting and power
circuits at 600 Volts or less, in residential, commercial and
industrial buildings. The wire may be operated at 90oC
maximum continuous temperature in dry locations and 75oC in wet
locations and is listed by Underwriters Laboratories
for use in accordance with Article 310 of the National Electrical
Code. The wire shall also be C(UL) listed as
Types T90 Nylon or TWN75, FT1 indicating suitability for use in
accordance with the Canadian Code.

2. APPLICABLE STANDARDS
2.1 The following standards form a part of this specification to the
extent specified herein:
2.1.1 Underwriters Laboratories Standard 83 for Thermoplastic
Insulated Wires.
2.1.2 Underwriters Laboratories Standard 1063 for Machine-Tool Wires
and Cables (Stranded items only).
2.1.3 Underwriters Laboratories Standard 758 for 105oC Appliance
Wiring Materials (Stranded items only).
2.1.4 CSA Standard C22.2 No. 75 and Electrical Bulletin No. 1451 for
Type T90 Nylon or TWN75.

3. CONDUCTORS
3.1 Conductors shall be solid, Class B or Class C stranded, annealed
uncoated copper per UL Standards 83 or 1063.

At least in the past aluminum was not allowed, but as I said, things
may have changed in the latest UL standards. My job does not require
me to stay completely current.

What do you do, Jack, if you don't mind my asking? It looks as though
you might be an electrical engineer.

I owned a wire harness manufacturing concern for over a decade; but,
my memory's not nearly as good as it used to be. And, I had scores of
reference materials back then that I could use to look this stuff up.
I still have my SAE references (at home). That doesn't do any good
here at the office, though. And I have a copy of the NEC 2004
(approximate year) on disk somewhere.

On a quick search I found this link;

http://www.prolinesafety.com/store/i...=55&ItemId=46&

and it may be that the aluminum construction is the THWN. When I
wrote my note I was concerned with not confusing the TFFN with the
THHN.

Actually, I still have it on my external drive, Jack. I didn't think
I would find it. And it's been longer than I had thought. Its the
NEC2002:

"310.14 Aluminum Conductor Material. Solid aluminum
conductors 8, 10, and 12 AWG shall be made of an AA-
8000 series electrical grade aluminum alloy conductor material.
Stranded aluminum conductors 8 AWG through 1000
kcmil marked as Type RHH, RHW, XHHW, THW, THHW,
THWN, THHN, service-entrance Type SE Style U and SE
Style R shall be made of an AA-8000 series electrical grade
aluminum alloy conductor material."


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