President Obama gave a very powerful speech making his case for health
care reform. Watching Republicans confused as to whether they should
stand and applaud various lines was telling. He had them completely
off balance.

Of course, the line every pundit will talk about is the GOP
congressman -- reportedly Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) -- who yelled "lie"
during the first part of the president's speech. It was so
astoundingly rude that it's almost certain to backfire and will give
the president a few extra approval points among the American public.

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.

jps wrote:
President Obama gave a very powerful speech making his case for health
care reform. Watching Republicans confused as to whether they should
stand and applaud various lines was telling. He had them completely
off balance.

Of course, the line every pundit will talk about is the GOP
congressman -- reportedly Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) -- who yelled "lie"
during the first part of the president's speech. It was so
astoundingly rude that it's almost certain to backfire and will give
the president a few extra approval points among the American public.

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.


I watched gleefully as Obama surgically cut the balls off the GOP
leadership in the House and Senate.

Joe Wilson's behavior is exactly what we have come to expect from South
Carolina.


--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:23:48 -0400, H the K
wrote:

jps wrote:
President Obama gave a very powerful speech making his case for health
care reform. Watching Republicans confused as to whether they should
stand and applaud various lines was telling. He had them completely
off balance.

Of course, the line every pundit will talk about is the GOP
congressman -- reportedly Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) -- who yelled "lie"
during the first part of the president's speech. It was so
astoundingly rude that it's almost certain to backfire and will give
the president a few extra approval points among the American public.

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.


I watched gleefully as Obama surgically cut the balls off the GOP
leadership in the House and Senate.

Joe Wilson's behavior is exactly what we have come to expect from South
Carolina.

I think you're leaving out representatives from several surrounding
states who'd happily live up to Joe Wilson's example.

Obama sliced and diced the assholes. It was great to watch.

They didn't know what the **** to stand and clap for. They lept to
their feet when Obama personal responsibility and accountability even
tho' all their arguments are in direct opposition of same.

****in' dweebs got their asses handed to 'em tonight. Delightful.

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:09:52 -0700, jps wrote:

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.

Oh yeah - they sure are going to get it done.

WHIP COUNT

44 Democrats Opposed

1. Rep. Altmire
2. Rep. Adler
3. Rep. Barrow
4. Rep. Boren
5. Rep. Boucher
6. Rep. Boyd
7. Rep. Bright
8. Rep. Carney
9. Rep. Childers
11. Rep. Cleaver
12. Rep. Cooper
13. Rep. Costello
14. Rep. Cuellar
15. Rep. Dahlkamper
16. Rep. Davis
17. Rep. Driehaus
18. Rep. Ellsworth
19. Rep. Gordon
20. Rep. Griffith
21. Rep. Halvorson
22. Rep. Hill
23. Rep. Holden
24. Rep. Kanjorski
25. Rep. Kaptur
26. Rep. F Kratovil
27. Rep. Marshall
28. Rep. Massa
29. Rep. Melancon
30. Rep. McIntyre
31. Rep. Minnick
32. Rep. Murtha
33. Rep. Oberstar
34. Rep. Ortiz
35. Rep. Perriello
36. Rep. Peterson
37. Rep. Polis
38. Rep. Pomeroy
39. Rep. Ross
40. Rep. Shuler
41. Rep. Stupak
42. Rep. Tanner
43. Rep. Taylor
44. Rep. Titus

57 Liberal Democrats to vote no on a bill without a strong public
option

On July 31, 2009, the Congressional Progressive Caucus sent a letter
to Speaker Pelosi expressing their opposition to a weakening of the
public option. The letter on behalf of 57 Progressive Democrats
concludes, “In short, this agreement will result in the public, both
as insurance purchasers and as taxpayers, paying ever higher rates to
insurance companies. We simply cannot vote for such a proposal.” The
text can be read he
http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/upload...030% 2009.pdf
1) Rep. Woolsey
2) Rep. Grijalva
3) Rep. Kilpatrick
4) Rep. Nadler
5) Rep. Hare
6) Rep. Roybal-Allard
7) Rep. Ellison
8) Rep. Blumenauer
9) Rep. Watts
10) Rep. Edwards
11) Rep. Olver
12) Rep. Kucinich
13) Rep. Richardson
14) Rep. Waters
15) Rep. Conyers
16) Rep. Chu
17) Rep. Hinchey
18) Rep. Johnson
19) Rep. Watson
20) Rep. Spier
21) Rep. Pascrell
22) Rep. Doggett
23) Rep. Kaptur
24) Rep. Hirono
25) Rep. Filner
26) Rep. Sanchez
27) Rep. Fudge
28) Rep. Lee
29) Rep. Carson
30) Rep. Jackson Lee
31) Rep. Honda
32) Rep. McDermott
33) Rep. Clay
34) Rep. McGovern
35) Rep. Clarke
36) Rep. Massa
37) Rep. Pingree
38) Rep. Jackson, Jr.
39) Rep. Cummings
40) Rep. Thompson
41) Rep. Moore
42) Rep. Payne
43) Rep. Stark
44) Rep. Towns
45) Rep. Brown
46) Rep. Hastings
47) Rep. Valezquez
48) Rep. Gutierrez
49) Rep. Napolitano
50) Rep. Sires
51) Rep. Tierney
52) Rep. Capuano
53) Rep. Fattah
54) Rep. Serrano
55) Rep. Farr
56) Rep. Delahunt
57) Rep. Johnson

BACKGROUND:

Rep. John Adler (D-NJ): “Isn’t good for America.” But dissatisfaction
extends beyond Blue Dogs. Rep. Rick Boucher (Va.), a conservative
Democrat but not a Blue Dog, says he doesn't like the public option.
Rep. John Adler (D-N.J.) told an audience, "The bill that's coming
through the House, with or without the public option, isn't good for
America." (Mike Soraghan and A.B. Stoddard, “Dem Split On The Public
Option Casts Doubt On Reform Of Healthcare,” The Hill, 8/31/09)

Rep. Jason Altmire (D-PA): Voted Against The Health Care Bill In The
Education And Labor Committee. “Two key House committees moved along
Democratic healthcare legislation on Friday, only days after the bill
was introduced. … The Education and Labor Committee approved their
portion of the bill by a 26-22 vote. Democratic Reps. Jared Polis
(Colo.), Dina Titus (Nev.) and Jason Altimire (Pa.) voted against the
bill.” (Michael O’Brien, “House Committees Advance Healthcare
Overhaul,” The Hill, 7/17/09)

Rep. John Barrow (D-GA): “I still voted against the bill.” Barrow said
he does not believe that the changes they made are permanent or
adequate.“I still voted against the bill, even after we had gotten
these amendments passed, not because I didn’t think they made it
better, but because I didn’t think they made the bill good enough,” he
said. (Sandi Van Orden, “Barrow Offers Why He Voted Against Health
Care Bill,” The Effingham Herald, 9/3/09)

Rep. Dan Boren (D-OK): “The House Bill That’s Out There, I Can’t
Support.” “Second District Congressman Dan Boren said Monday that
health care reform rests largely on President Barack Obama's
willingness to accept bipartisan compromise on the issue. ‘If health
care reform is going to happen it will have to happen in a bipartisan
way,’ Boren told the Tulsa Metropolitan Chamber of Commerce. ‘It's
really up to the president.’ Boren, a Democrat, said he is trying to
keep an open mind but said, ‘The House bill that's out there, I can't
support.’” (Tom Gilbert, “Boren: Bipartisanship Key To Health Care,”
Tulsa World, 7/20/09)

Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA): I have a problem with this government option
plan," Boucher said. "I'm troubled that the government option plan
could become very popular and if it became sufficiently popular it
could begin to crowd out the other" private insurance companies.
Furthermore, he said, the public option could "financially
destabilize" rural hospitals. (Sarah Bruyn Jones, “Boucher Unconvinced
On 'Government Option' For Health Care,” The Roanoke Times, 8/19/09)

Rep. Allen Boyd (D-Fla.), who belongs to the moderate Blue Dogs group,
said at a town hall meeting yesterday that "the public option is off
the table." When asked whether it would be a good idea to "scrap
everything" and start the process of reforming health care over, Boyd
reportedly said, "I think that is an excellent idea … we may end up
there."

Rep. Bobby Bright (D-AL): U.S. Congressman Bobby Bright announced
recently he opposes the current draft of United States House of
Representatives health care legislation. “I am hopeful that when
Congress returns in September, the process will be more bipartisan and
we will be able to produce something that works for the American
people,” Bright said. “I continue to believe that the current
direction of health care reform relies too heavily on taxes on
individuals and small businesses, and the overall cost of health care
legislation remains too high. Moreover, though changes have been made
to how the public option will work, the overall bill does not
represent my belief in a free-market approach to health care reform.”
(“Bright Questions Health Care Reform,” The Southeast Sun, 8/26/09)

Rep. Chris Carney (D-PA): “I Would Not Vote In Favor Of It At This
Point.” “Carney said he could not support a plan crafted by House
Democrats because of the way the plan would impact small- to
medium-sized businesses, rural areas and small hospitals. ‘There is a
1,000-page template out of the House, but it's very fluid and being
negotiated as we speak,’ Carney said. ‘There is not unanimous
agreement on the initial version. Guys like me - the blue dog
Democrats - are firm on our disagreement with certain aspects of the
bill.’ ‘As it is now, and realizing it is extremely fluid and changes
daily, I would not vote in favor of it at this point,’ he said.”
(David Thompson, “Carney: More Time Needed For Proper Health Care
Reform,” Sun Gazette, 7/24/09)

Rep. Travis Childers (D-MS): Would Not Vote for a House Health Care
Reform Bill. During a town hall teleconference Tuesday night, Rep.
Travis Childers, D-Miss., said "he would not vote for a House health
care reform bill in its current form," a Memphis TV station reports.
http://www.wreg.com/sns-ap-ms--child...,6705422.story

Rep. Travis Childers (D-MS): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO): “I’m willing to Push the Reset Button.”
“Cleaver willing to start over on health care bill. Rep. Emanuel
Cleaver told reporters this morning he's willing to start from scratch
on a health care reform bill, as many Republicans have suggested. "I'm
willing to push the reset button," Cleaver said, although he appeared
skeptical about the prospects for any new legislation from a restart
of the process. The Missouri Democrat also said health care reform is
"too important" to be passed with only Democratic votes, as White
House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel has recently suggested. Cleaver also
said if health reform isn't passed by year's end, it won't happen.
That, he agreed, effectively gives the GOP veto power over any
legislation for the next 90 days or so, once Congress returns after
Labor Day. (Dave Helling, “Cleaver Willing To Start Over On Health
Care Bill,” The Kansas City Star, 8/19/09)

Rep. Jim Cooper (D-TN): “Is Not Good Enough to Earn the Support of
Nashville-Area Voters.” I want to vote for health-care reform. Every
American deserves comprehensive health care. It is a moral imperative.
But the House bill, at least as I have closely reviewed the June 19th
and later drafts, is not good enough to earn the support of
Nashville-area voters.
http://www.cooper.house.gov/index.ph...78&Item id=73
Rep. Jerry Costello (D-IL): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-TX): “Am I In Favor Of This Bill As It Is
Written? I Am Not.” “‘We have the more conservative folks and the more
liberal folks pushing me both ways,’ Cuellar noted. ‘Do I believe in
health care reform? Yes I do. But I also believe in insurance reform.
Am I in favor of this bill as it is written? I am not.’” (Ron Maloney,
“Somewhat Rowdy Crowd For Cuellar Visit,” The Gazette-Enterprise,
7/26/09)

Rep. Kathleen Dahlkamper (D-PA): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care
Reform Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope
Of Any Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We
believe in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and
is dedicated to the protection and preservation of families.
Therefore, we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it
explicitly excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a
government-defined or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be
used to fund abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Lincoln Davis (D-TN): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Steve Driehaus (D-OH): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Brad Ellsworth (D-IN): “I Was Not Prepared, Nor Would I Have
Voted For, the Proposed Bill on August 6th.” “I’m really glad we were
able to postpone the legislation,” Ellsworth said. “I was not
prepared, nor would I have voted for, the proposed bill on August 6th”
when the summer recess began, he said.
http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_story_247222034.html

Rep. Bart Gordon (D-TN): “I Cannot Support The Bill.” “On Thursday,
Gordon and the other six Blue Dogs on the committee demonstrated their
concerns about the bill by reading nearly identical opening
statements. ‘I am thoroughly reviewing the bill. However, as currently
written, I cannot support the bill,’ Gordon said after the hearing.”
(Bill Theobald, “Health Bill Faces Fight From Tennessee Blue
Dogs,”Tennessean, 7/19/09)

Rep. Parker Griffith (D-Al): Rep. Parker Griffith, D-Al., who opposes
the public health care option, says he needs more details before he
can sign off on the co-op notion being floated by the Senate. "It
depends on how it's worded and how it's structured," Griffith said
Monday, according to the Huntsville Times.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...gislation.html
Rep. Debbie Halvorson (D-IL) “My message right now is we don’t have a
bill”: While health care proposals are changing by the minute,
Halvorson said her primary concern is cost. If the final draft
increases the federal deficit, she'll vote against it, even though
President Barack Obama's administration repeatedly has said he is "not
open to deficit spending. Health reform will be paid for and it will
be deficit neutral over 10 years," Health and Human Services Secretary
Kathleen Sebelius wrote in submitted testimony to the House Energy and
Commerce Committee. "My message right now is we don't have a bill,"
Halvorson said. "In fact, the moderate Democrats are the ones holding
off so we wouldn't have to vote on this before we left. Health care is
a big issue, but just because I ran on health care doesn't mean I'm
going to vote for a bill that doesn't work and costs too much money.
True reform brings costs down. True reform is not what this bill is
yet." (Kristen McQueary, “Dodge In, Halvorson On The Defensive,” The
Southtown Star, 8/20/09)

Rep. Baron Hill (D-IN): “Said This Morning He Would Not Vote For The
Health Care Reform Bill In Its Present Form.” “Congressman Baron Hill
said this morning he would not vote for the health care reform bill in
its present form, primarily because he believes it lacks effective
health care cost controls. … ‘There are seven of us blue dogs on the
committee opposed to the bill in its present form,’ Hill said. ‘We met
the last two days drafting amendments to the bill that address the
issue of accountability and cost controls.’ Hill said he wants the
bill to control costs by shifting the system away from the
fee-for-service model, which he says financially rewards doctors and
hospitals in direct proportion to the number of procedures they
perform. ‘We need to create a medical system that makes sure the
patient comes first instead of a system that rewards doctors for
overutilizing services,’ he said. ‘That means getting rid of
fee-for-service.’” (Dann Denny, “Baron Hill Wants Health Care Bill
Modifications,”Herald-Times, 7/16/09)

Rep. Tim Holden (D-PA): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-OH): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Frank Kratovil Jr. (D-MD): Opposes current legislation in the
House, but remains open to public option. He opposes the measure
currently under consideration in the House and will vote against it
unless there are significant changes. Among his objections: the price,
which would add $239 billion to the deficit over 10 years, according
to a preliminary estimate by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget
Office. He's also concerned, he says, that the measure is too generous
to the poor, at the expense of the middle class, and potentially
harmful to rural areas of Maryland, like the Eastern Shore, which
already have trouble attracting and keeping doctors. At the same time,
Kratovil speaks with evident passion about the need for change. He
said in an interview that he "absolutely" would support a more
"reasonable" plan, though he acknowledges that he doesn't know how to
close the cost gap. Unlike many of his fellow Blue Dogs, he's not
against including a public insurance option. He said he would favor
one that creates an "equal playing field" and legitimate competition
with private insurance companies. "I don't follow the fear that having
a public option means the beginning of a single-payer system," he
said, sitting in a windowless conference room at his Salisbury
district office. (Paul West, “A Blue Dog Democrat's View From The
Middle,” The Baltimore Sun, 8/23/09)

Rep. Jim Marshall (D-GA): “As the Bill Stands Right Now, I Would Have
to Vote ‘No.’” "As the bill stands right now, I would have to vote
'no' until we get a better handle on the costs. I am adamantly opposed
to throwing more money at the current system."
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/mai...041&TM=231.214
Rep. Eric Massa (D-NY): “But I Will Not Vote For A Bill That Gets It
Wrong, And If I Had To Vote Today For The Current Piece Of Legislation
In Front Of Congress, I Would Not Be Able To Support It.”“U.S. Rep.
Eric Massa said if he had to vote today on America's Affordable Health
Care Choices Act, he would probably vote against it. ‘We all know that
one in six don't have health insurance. We all know that we pay more
per capita for health care than any other nation in the world. These
things need to be addressed, and doing nothing, which is what so many
want to do, is simply not an option,’ said Massa, D-Corning. ‘But I
will not vote for a bill that gets it wrong, and if I had to vote
today for the current piece of legislation in front of Congress, I
would not be able to support it,’ he said Tuesday during his weekly
teleconference with the media.” (Ray Finger, “Massa Wary Of Health
Care Reform Bill,” Star-Gazette, 7/22/09)

Rep. Mike McIntyre (D-NC): I am not convinced that we should have the
public option. I know there's been a lot of debate about that, but I’m
not convinced that we should do that, so as it stands now, I would be
a no on the public option. With regard to the coops, I think there's
room for debate there on how that's done, and I’m not in favor of just
dumping federal money into it, I think that's the essence of his
question. http://www.wwaytv3.com/node/17942

Rep. Mike McIntyre (D-NC): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Charlie Melancon (D-LA): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care
Reform Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope
Of Any Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We
believe in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and
is dedicated to the protection and preservation of families.
Therefore, we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it
explicitly excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a
government-defined or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be
used to fund abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09) Rep. Walt
Minnick (D-ID): Rep. Walt Minnick, D-Id., is described in the Idaho
Mountain Express as flatly opposing the Democrats' health care reform
bill. "The government should set the rules of the road and then let
private business do the work," he said.
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005127388

Rep. John Murtha (D-PA): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. James Oberstar (D-MN): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Salomon Ortiz (D-TX): “We Cannot Support Any Health Care Reform
Proposal Unless It Explicitly Excludes Abortion From The Scope Of Any
Government-Defined Or Subsidized Health Insurance Plan.” “We believe
in a culture that supports and respects the right to life and is
dedicated to the protection and preservation of families. Therefore,
we cannot support any health care reform proposal unless it explicitly
excludes abortion from the scope of any government-defined or
subsidized health insurance plan. We believe that a government-defined
or subsidized health insurance plan, should not be used to fund
abortion.” (Letter To Speaker Pelosi, 6/25/09)

Rep. Tom Perriello (D-VA): Perriello said he does not currently
support any of the three proposals in congress. He said he won't
support a program that funds abortions, but he said it's starting to
sink in with people that the feds aren't trying to do away with
private insurance. "You still hear concerns about it being a public
mandate rather than a public option. People are going to be given a
wide range of choice between private insurance and maybe, or maybe
not, a public option. I think people are starting to understand that,"
Perriello said. (Brian Damewood, “Locals Sound Off Over Health Care,”
wset.com, 8/18/09)

Rep. Collin Peterson (D-MN): I have not found a bill I can support
yet. "I'm not here to sell you anything," he said. "I have not found a
bill yet that I can support" -- interrupted by applause -- "I am here
to listen and to learn. I believe we have problems in our health care
system. We are not spending our money wisely, so I believe we have to
do something." (Bob von Sternberg, A Kinder, Gentler Town Hall
Meeting. The Minnesota Star Tribune 8/15/09) Rep. Jared Polis (D-CO):
Voted Against The Health Care Bill In The Education And Labor
Committee. “Two key House committees moved along Democratic healthcare
legislation on Friday, only days after the bill was introduced. … The
Education and Labor Committee approved their portion of the bill by a
26-22 vote. Democratic Reps. Jared Polis (Colo.), Dina Titus (Nev.)
and Jason Altimire (Pa.) voted against the bill.” (Michael O’Brien,
“House Committees Advance Healthcare Overhaul,” The Hill, 7/17/09)

Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D-ND): Voted Against The Health Care Bill In The
House Ways And Means Committee. “The House Ways and Means Committee
approved legislation early Friday to overhaul the health care system
and expand insurance coverage after a marathon session in which
Democrats easily turned back Republican efforts to amend the bill. …
In the Ways and Means vote, three Democrats — Ron Kind of Wisconsin,
Earl Pomeroy of North Dakota and John Tanner of Tennessee — joined
Republicans in voting against the bill.” (Robert Pear, “House
Committee Approves Health Care Bill,” The New York Times, 7/17/09)

Rep. Mike Ross (D-AL): "I have been skeptical about the public health
insurance option from the beginning and used August to get feedback
from you, my constituents," he wrote in a statement his office
released publicly. "An overwhelming number of you oppose a
government-run health insurance option, and it is your feedback that
has led me to oppose the public option as
well."http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/09/blue_dog_ross_comes_out_agains.html
Rep. Heath Shuler (D-NC): In the Tarheel State, Rep. Heath Shuler,
D-NC, said during a telephone town hall meeting, per the
Citizen-Times, "that he opposes the House health care reform
legislation because it would increase the deficit, doesn't reduce the
overall cost of health care and doesn't do enough to promote people
living healthier lives… 'I do not support HR3200 at the present time,'
Shuler said...emphasizing that the current legislation does not do
enough to promote wellness, prevention and disease management. Nor is
enough being done to eliminate waste, fraud and abuse in Medicare and
Medicaid, he said."
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...908140330/1200
Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI): “I Cannot Support This Bill In Its Current
Form.” “‘I cannot support this bill in its current form,’ Democrat
Bart Stupak said, adding it did not provide real competition for the
insurance industry and could hike costs for consumers.” (Kim Dixon,
“Obama Looks For Republican Healthcare Backing,” Reuters, 7/16/09)

Rep. Stupak (D-MI): “You’ve Got A Broken System. We Are Perpetuating A
Broken System.” “Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) cast himself as one of
eight opponents of the bill as written on Energy and Commerce. ‘You've
got a broken system. We are perpetuating a broken system,’ Stupak
said. ‘They've got to address our concerns, or the other option is a
“no” vote.’ He also said opponents might try to block a bill by
defeating the House rule on the floor.” (Jeffrey Young, “House Leaders
Cheer Healthcare Progress Amid Infighting,” The Hill, 7/17/09)

Rep. Stupak (D-MI): “Why Would We Give You More Money For A System
That’s Broken?” “Stupak’s concerns are varied, but they include his
desire for a prohibition on federal funding for abortions as part of
the public insurance option under consideration, as well as a demand
for deeper cost cuts and dealing with regional disparities under
Medicare. Fundamentally, the bill does not fix the broken health care
system, he said. ‘Why would we give you more money for a system that’s
broken?’ he asked.” (Steven T. Dennis, “Stupak Warns Of Democratic
Defections On Health Bill,” Roll Call, 7/17/09)

Rep. John Tanner (D-TN): Said Rep. John Tanner, D-Tenn., according to
the Commercial Appeal, "most reasonable, sensible people realize that
we've got some holes in the current delivery system that are resulting
in inefficiency, duplication, nonproductive ... provider-to-patient
expenditures, and what I've been telling people is we need to figure
that out before we start overturning the entire system...I think we
need to take a deep breath and go at this thing incrementally."
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...-care-concern/
Rep. Gene Taylor (D-MS): Rep. Gene Taylor, D-Miss., at a town hall
meeting in Moss Point Monday night, said, per the Associated Press, "I
would hope that everyone in this room knows by now that I am not going
to vote for the health care plan."
http://www.clarionledger.com/article...cts-Obama-plan
Rep. Dina Titus (D-NV): Voted Against The Health Care Bill In The
Education And Labor Committee. “Two key House committees moved along
Democratic healthcare legislation on Friday, only days after the bill
was introduced. … The Education and Labor Committee approved their
portion of the bill by a 26-22 vote. Democratic Reps. Jared Polis
(Colo.), Dina Titus (Nev.) and Jason Altimire (Pa.) voted against the
bill.” (Michael O’Brien, “House Committees Advance Healthcare
Overhaul,” The Hill, 7/17/09)

Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-MO): Rep. William Lacy Clay, D-St. Louis, is
among the unwavering on the public option. In a statement to Political
Fix, Clay asserted today that a public insurance plan “is the only way
to force insurance companies to control costs, treat their customers
fairly and spur competition. (Bill Lambrecht, “Clay: Public Option
“Only Way” To Control Costs, Spur Competition,” The St. Louis
Post-Dispatch, 8/18/09)

Rep. John Conyers (D-MI): It is clear that real reform means injecting
real competition into the insurance market to improve affordability
and drive down health-care costs. "The centerpiece of this reform is a
robust Medicare-like public health insurance plan tied to the Medicare
provider system. Like many of my colleagues in both the House and
Senate, I will oppose any health-care reform bill that lacks such a
plan. (Rep. John Conyers, “Conyers: Public Option Is A Necessary
Component Of Health-Care Reform,” Press Release 9/9/09)

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN): Sixty members of the Progressive Caucus
have "drawn a line in the sand," saying they will NOT support anything
short of reform that includes a public-option health insurance
program. The concept of co-ops supplanting the public option plan is
not good enough, those signing the letter have said. Ellison, a
passionate Obama supporter, admitted following the news conference
that he believes it's necessary for the president to again make it
clear that the public option plan is the only acceptable solution.
"There are a lot of people who think that Obama and [Secretary of
Health Kathleen] Sebelius made a tactical mistake by seeming to back
off. … He can't hand it [the public option] away without a political
price to pay. That's not a bad thing. He might think he can walk away
and say, 'I brought more reform than we've had in 60 years.' But we
[in the progressive caucus] are saying, 'That's not enough.' " (Doug
Grow, “Congressional Progressive Caucus 'Pep Rally' Is Still Pushing
Public-Option Health Care Reform,” Minnpost.Com 8/20/09)

Rep. Eliot Engel (D-NY): "I'd have to think long and hard, I'd have to
see if it moved health care forward," New York Rep. Eliot Engel told
CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "…I think it would be a terrible miscalculation if
we didn't have a public option." Engel called nonprofit health
cooperatives, or "co-ops" — which are being proposed as an alternative
— "untested," and said that he needs proof that they would help to
lower costs. (Lauren Kornreich, “House Democrat: 'Terrible
Miscalculation' To Skip Public Option,” CNN.com, 8/18/09)

Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-PA): "There is no option when it comes to
reforming America's ailing healthcare system. We must do it. And there
is no option for inclusion of a public plan. We must have it. Real
reform requires real choice. A public option provides consumers a
critical alternative to private plan. (Rep. Chaka Fattah, “Healthca
Public Option Mirrors Other Government Insurance Plans,” Press
Release, 8/21/09)

Rep. Phil Hare (D-IL): “….in recent days there have been some reports
that the President may reconsider requiring a strong, robust public
option that competes directly with private insurance companies. That
would be a mistake. Health care reform without a public option is a
like a car without a motor. It may look nice, but it isn’t going
anywhere.” (Ed Tibbetts, “Hare To Biden: Don’t Drop Public Option,”
The Quad City Times, 8/20/09)

Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL): Jackson held a town hall meeting last
night - with CNN cameras present - that he described to King as civil
before laying down a marker for his friend, the president. "A hundred
and sixty members of Congress have already signed a letter indicating
that without a strong public option, from their perspective, including
my signature, that this bill is a non-starter," Jackson said. (Steve
Rhodes, “Prescription For Debate,” NBC Chicago.com, 8/20/09)

Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA): Liberal Democrats are terrified that he will
jettison their Holy Grail, while conservatives fear that a vote for a
public option - characterized by opponents as leading to
government-run health care - could doom them in tough re-election
fights. "This is not a sliver of health care reform, this is
essential," said Rep. Barbara Lee, an Oakland Democrat, one of 60-plus
House liberals who vow to vote against any plan without a public
option. Lee said she hopes Obama will clearly state his support. "This
is really a moral imperative," she said. "This is a huge issue."
(Carolyn Lochhead, “Dems Pin Health Reform Hopes On Obama's Speech,
The San Francisco Chronicle, 9/8/09)

Rep. Jerrod Nadler (D-NY): "We are making clear to the leadership that
we insist on a robust public option and our votes won't be there if
there isn't a public option," said Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D., N.Y.), a
senior member of the House Progressive Caucus. Whether they would
actually vote no is unclear. Some working to pass the measure find the
threat unpersuasive. The Progressive Caucus has 82 members, enough to
defeat a health bill, since virtually all 178 House Republicans are
likely to vote no. (Laura Meckler and Naftali Bendavid, “Liberals Fear
Losing Public-Plan Option,” The Wall Street Journal, 7/29/09)

Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL): Meanwhile, Jan Schakowsky, a leading
progressive Democratic lawmaker, said liberals were not prepared to
climb down. “I will support nothing short of a robust public health
insurance plan upon implementation – no triggers,” she said. “I
believe Congress will pass and the president will sign such a bill.”
(Edward Luce, “Obama Seeks To Quell Healthcare Revolt,” The Financial
Times, 9/3/09)

Rep. Peter Stark (D-CA): "Well, the only co-op I know about is when I
used to milk cows and we sold the milk to Golden Guernsey. And I think
there's only one co-op left," said Stark, who considers the co-op idea
a non-starter. "There aren't many of you listening who remember the
co-ops of the '30s, which was a - just kind of a Roosevelt outgrowth
of rural electric co-ops, phone co-ops." (David Lightman and William
Douglas, “Health Care Debate Exposes Regional Rift For Democrats,”
McClatchy Newspapers, 9/3/09)

Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA): Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) agreed with
Conyers's ominous analysis and warned that House liberals will not
settle for the kind of compromise that might be necessary in the
Senate. "You're asking whether or not we will support some other
alterative to public option, and I want to be very, very clear," she
told MSNBC's Ed Schultz. "We've got to have a public option. I will
not vote for anything that doesn't have a public option." (Eric
Zimmermann, ”Black Caucus Members: It's Public Option Or Nothing,” The
Hill 9/9/09)

Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY): Reform proponents like Congressman Anthony
Weiner (D-N.Y.) say he won't have the votes for one that doesn't.
"Having a plan that doesn't have a public option is worse than having
doing nothing at all," he said. "Leaving the insurance companies in
charge of this is kind of like leaving a pyromaniac in charge of the
fire department. (Don Dahler, “No Public Option Is A Mistake,”
wcbstv.com, 8/17/09)

Rep. Lynn Woosley (D-CA): Woolsey said she will vote against any
measure that lacks a “robust public option” based on the Medicare
model and intended to compete with private insurance. Without it,
health care remains “business as usual,” Woolsey said by phone from an
education conference in Banff, Alberta. “It’s not reform without the
public option.” (Mike Coit, “Woolsey, House Liberals Demand 'Public
Option' Health Plan,” The Press Democrat, 8/18/09)

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:10:16 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:09:52 -0700, jps wrote:

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.

Oh yeah - they sure are going to get it done.

WTF is anyone going to do with 724 lines of drivel?

You obviously weren't watching the reaction from the progressive
democrats. They're giving Obama a chance and will support his effort
to deliver health care reform.

You? Well, you were never inclined to give him a chance nor support
him. Sour grapes, sore loser, out of power.

jps wrote:
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:10:16 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:09:52 -0700, jps wrote:

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.
Oh yeah - they sure are going to get it done.

WTF is anyone going to do with 724 lines of drivel?

You obviously weren't watching the reaction from the progressive
democrats. They're giving Obama a chance and will support his effort
to deliver health care reform.

You? Well, you were never inclined to give him a chance nor support
him. Sour grapes, sore loser, out of power.


Sweet, ain't it?

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:09:52 -0700, jps wrote:

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.

Oh yeah - they sure are going to get it done.


Poor Cap'n Tom... still behind the times.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:10:16 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:09:52 -0700, jps wrote:

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.

Oh yeah - they sure are going to get it done.

I was more concerned with the Blue Dog Democrats, than I was with the
Progressives, and the Blue Dogs seem to be getting on board. The House
isn't a problem, but the Senate could have been. I'm thinking there will
be perhaps 1/2 dozen, or so, Republican Senators that will also come over
from the dark side.

Something has to be done. Moderate Republicans know something has to be
done. Just saying No ain't going to cut it.

thunder wrote:
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:10:16 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:09:52 -0700, jps wrote:

Make no mistake about it: President Obama and the Democrats are not
going to back down until they get this bill done.
Oh yeah - they sure are going to get it done.

I was more concerned with the Blue Dog Democrats, than I was with the
Progressives, and the Blue Dogs seem to be getting on board. The House
isn't a problem, but the Senate could have been. I'm thinking there will
be perhaps 1/2 dozen, or so, Republican Senators that will also come over
from the dark side.

Something has to be done. Moderate Republicans know something has to be
done. Just saying No ain't going to cut it.


I believe a bill reasonably close to what Obama highlighted last night
will land on his desk.

I agree about the progressives. They're not stupid. Under Obama's
proposals, they're getting nearly a full platter of what they wanted. It
would be foolish for them to sit on their hands and hope for something
better.

As has been discussed, the biggest fear of the Republicans is that
*anything* gets passed, because whatever is passed will be something the
majority of voters will like, and it will be awfully easy for the Dems
to run ads in 2010 and 2012 against those nasty ReThugs who opposed
health care reform.

Moderate Republicans? You mean the two Senators from Maine?




--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:58:15 -0400, H the K wrote:


I believe a bill reasonably close to what Obama highlighted last night
will land on his desk.

I also tend to think it will.

I agree about the progressives. They're not stupid. Under Obama's
proposals, they're getting nearly a full platter of what they wanted. It
would be foolish for them to sit on their hands and hope for something
better.

As has been discussed, the biggest fear of the Republicans is that
*anything* gets passed, because whatever is passed will be something the
majority of voters will like, and it will be awfully easy for the Dems
to run ads in 2010 and 2012 against those nasty ReThugs who opposed
health care reform.

Moderate Republicans? You mean the two Senators from Maine?

Those two, but I suspect several more, including some rather Conservative
Senators. If the final package comes in close to deficit neutral, I
suspect you could have McCain and Voinovich on board. Perhaps, another
couple, but I wouldn't want to guess who.