The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly $597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers,
not the site for the general public.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly $597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers,
not the site for the general public.

Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion. No
other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over the
place.

Steve

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly $597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers,
not the site for the general public.

Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion. No
other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over the
place.

Steve


Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:59:09 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:


"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly $597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers,
not the site for the general public.

Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion. No
other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over the
place.

Steve

The inclusion of the language quoted above was co-sponsored by a
Republican.

It was intended to make *voluntary* counseling available to those who
want to deal with end of life issues.

Anyone who misrepresents this is an evil asshole. Doesn't surprise me
that you'd be on their side.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

"NotNow" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly $597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers,
not the site for the general public.

Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion.
No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over the
place.

Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a higher
mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing more,
drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad health to
start with.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Aug 13, 2:54*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message

...





SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly $597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go down
under the leading proposals in Congress

Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air that
*the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers,
not the site for the general public.

Well, that does it. *You said it. *It HAS to be true. *No other opinion.
No other way. *Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. *There will be no death panels, just people dying all over the
place.

Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

People are dieing. *But not from a lack of medical care. *We have a higher
mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing more,
drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad health to
start with.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

not true. mortality rates among non whites in the US is higher than it
is among europeans. our lifespan is about 2 years shorter than the
average french or german. AND we pay twice as much for it.

so the free enterprise system delivers inadequate care at twice the
price. perfect

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly $597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers,
not the site for the general public.
Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion.
No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over the
place.

Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a higher
mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing more,
drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad health to
start with.


So.....what makes you think that if Obama's plan comes forth that people
will be dying from lack of medical care? In reverse Harryism, it's just
speculation.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

"NotNow" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor
of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care
bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling
sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of
the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives,
including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and
responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and
hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements
of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly
$597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the
Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against
health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go
down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air
that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for
dealers,
not the site for the general public.
Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other
opinion. No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over
the place.

Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a
higher mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing
more, drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad
health to start with.
So.....what makes you think that if Obama's plan comes forth that people
will be dying from lack of medical care? In reverse Harryism, it's just
speculation.

The people may well be dieing from starvation and riots. When the Fed's
take over 1/6 of the economy and the same Fed's who could not even run a
whore house in Nevada profitably, how do you think we are going to afford
this Free Health Care?

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Aug 13, 2:54 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message

...





SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor
of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care
bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling
sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of
the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives,
including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and
responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and
hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements
of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly
$597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the
Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against
health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go
down
under the leading proposals in Congress

Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air
that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for
dealers,
not the site for the general public.

Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion.
No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over
the
place.

Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a higher
mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing more,
drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad health to
start with.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

not true. mortality rates among non whites in the US is higher than it
is among europeans. our lifespan is about 2 years shorter than the
average french or german. AND we pay twice as much for it.

so the free enterprise system delivers inadequate care at twice the
price. perfect

Not true? Mortality among non-whites may be lower as they are killing each
other with gusto in the drug war. Lifespan is also lower for the other
reasons I stated, and Europe is not spending much on medical research. Most
of that is US money.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Aug 13, 4:44*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:


The people may well be dieing from starvation and riots. *When the Fed's
take over 1/6 of the economy and the same Fed's who could not even run a
whore house in Nevada profitably, how do you think we are going to afford
this Free Health Care?-

now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Aug 13, 4:44 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:


The people may well be dieing from starvation and riots. When the Fed's
take over 1/6 of the economy and the same Fed's who could not even run a
whore house in Nevada profitably, how do you think we are going to afford
this Free Health Care?-

now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Aug 13, 4:46*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...
On Aug 13, 2:54 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:



"NotNow" wrote in message

...

SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor
of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care
bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling
sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of
the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives,
including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and
responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and
hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements
of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly
$597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the
Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against
health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go
down
under the leading proposals in Congress

Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air
that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for
dealers,
not the site for the general public.

Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion..
No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over
the
place.

Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a higher
mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing more,
drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad health to
start with.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

not true. mortality rates among non whites in the US is higher than it
is among europeans. our lifespan is about 2 *years shorter than the
average french or german. AND we pay twice as much for it.

so the free enterprise system delivers inadequate care at twice the
price. perfect

Not true? * Mortality among non-whites may be lower as they are killing each
other with gusto in the drug war. *Lifespan is also lower for the other
reasons I stated, and Europe is not spending much on medical research. *Most
of that is US money.

uh...no. blood pressure is higher among non whites. cancer is higher.
childhood illnesses are higher.

you just need to take your hood off and look at reality.

and i've been to europe a number of times. their medical research is
world class. i realize you bushies think the US is the only country on
the planet but there are others

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Aug 13, 5:24*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message


now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. *They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. *And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. *How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

you need to start reading the news.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 4:46 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...
On Aug 13, 2:54 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:



"NotNow" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.
On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor
of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care
bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling
sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."
In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.
McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of
the
section in question.
H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:
(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.
(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives,
including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.
(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and
responsibilities
of a health care proxy.
(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .
(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and
hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.
(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders
Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....
The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.
?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.
?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.
?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements
of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.
?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly
$597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the
Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against
health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go
down
under the leading proposals in Congress
Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".
The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air
that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.
The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for
dealers,
not the site for the general public.
Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion.
No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.
Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over
the
place.
Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.
People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a higher
mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing more,
drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad health to
start with.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
not true. mortality rates among non whites in the US is higher than it
is among europeans. our lifespan is about 2 years shorter than the
average french or german. AND we pay twice as much for it.

so the free enterprise system delivers inadequate care at twice the
price. perfect

Not true? Mortality among non-whites may be lower as they are killing each
other with gusto in the drug war. Lifespan is also lower for the other
reasons I stated, and Europe is not spending much on medical research. Most
of that is US money.

uh...no. blood pressure is higher among non whites. cancer is higher.
childhood illnesses are higher.

you just need to take your hood off and look at reality.

and i've been to europe a number of times. their medical research is
world class. i realize you bushies think the US is the only country on
the planet but there are others


The righties think the drug companies *deserve* the right to rape us.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

In article 790f68d9-d57f-408e-8102-03275f5fe814
@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com, says...

On Aug 13, 5:24*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message


now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. *They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. *And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. *How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

you need to start reading the news.

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the "do
nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy. If she had
not broken her campaign promise and let gas go to $4.00 a gallon, and
helped the Bush Admin reign in the Fannie Freddie syndicate, we would
not have fallen off of the edge. You can blame the three highest
recipients of fannie and freddie lobby money over a ten year period.
Chris Dodd, Barak Obama, and John Kerry.. And remember, Obama was only
there for the last two years.. How much do you think he got to be in the
number two spot against Dodd, and Kerry and a ten year run?

--
Wafa free since 2009

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the "do
nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

Moron.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:24 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message


now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd say hi!

In fact Barney Frank just tried to get the banks to "readjust" interest
rates by mortgage holders and it went absolutely nowhere. Congress needs
to stop meddling in the banking industry.

How many people walked away from their homes when they had to put a 20%
down payment on a house?

you need to start reading the news.

You need to get a brain.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

H the K wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 4:46 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...

On Aug 13, 2:54 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:



"NotNow" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.
On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant
governor
of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care
bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling
sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest …
and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may
start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."
In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for
end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It
would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.
McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of
the
section in question.
H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between
the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years.
Such
consultation shall include the following:
(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.
(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives,
including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.
(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and
responsibilities
of a health care proxy.
(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .
(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of
end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and
hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.
(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding
life
sustaining treatment or similar orders
Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....
The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights
claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95
percent."
That’s misleading.
?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.
?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market,
among
other areas.
?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements
of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.
?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that
have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly
$597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the
Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239
billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against
health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But
it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go
down
under the leading proposals in Congress
Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies
propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system
"like
Canada's".
The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air
that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.
The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for
dealers,
not the site for the general public.
Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion.
No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.
Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over
the
place.
Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.
People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a
higher
mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing
more,
drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad
health to
start with.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
not true. mortality rates among non whites in the US is higher than it
is among europeans. our lifespan is about 2 years shorter than the
average french or german. AND we pay twice as much for it.

so the free enterprise system delivers inadequate care at twice the
price. perfect

Not true? Mortality among non-whites may be lower as they are
killing each
other with gusto in the drug war. Lifespan is also lower for the other
reasons I stated, and Europe is not spending much on medical
research. Most
of that is US money.

uh...no. blood pressure is higher among non whites. cancer is higher.
childhood illnesses are higher.

you just need to take your hood off and look at reality.

and i've been to europe a number of times. their medical research is
world class. i realize you bushies think the US is the only country on
the planet but there are others


The righties think the drug companies *deserve* the right to rape us.

Not us, just you.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the "do
nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

Moron.

I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

BAR wrote:


The righties think the drug companies *deserve* the right to rape us.

Not us, just you.


Sorry, moron, but I only take two "medications," a small dose generic
aspirin and a multivitamin, both OTC's. My "drug" bill, which I pay in
cash, is about $10 a month.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the "do
nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

Moron.

I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.


I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Aug 13, 9:53*pm, JustWait wrote:
In article 790f68d9-d57f-408e-8102-03275f5fe814
@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com, says...





On Aug 13, 5:24*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. *They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. *And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. *How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

you need to start reading the news.

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the "do
nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

newsflash, sport. pelosi had zip to do with the collapse of the
economy. your 'deregulate the economy' buddies ballooned CDO's to 62
TRILLION dollars. that's when your friend bush was president and your
pals the GOP ran congress. i realize that to you 'i love the rich'
folks, the rich can do no wrong, but reality is a different story

If she had
not broken her campaign promise and let gas go to $4.00 a gallon

ROFLMAO!! $4.00 gas broke the economy?? BWAHAHAHA!! god you'll fall
for any story won't you?

, and
helped the Bush Admin reign in the Fannie Freddie syndicate, we would
not have fallen off of the edge. You can blame the three highest
recipients of fannie and freddie lobby money over a ten year period.
Chris Dodd, Barak Obama, and John Kerry.

and over that 10 year period, who was in control of congress? The GOP.
who wrote the bill deregulating the securities industry? phil gramm, a
GOP legend, along with his wife a sr. VP at enron...the GOP hijacked
the economy, fed it to their rich friends and presented the bill to
the middle class THEN told you a story about what happened

and you fell for it!!


.. And remember, Obama was only
there for the last two years.. How much do you think he got to be in the
number two spot against Dodd, and Kerry and a ten year run?


gee. what happened to cheney, mccain, huckabee and all your buddies?
seems the american people finally stopped believing the lies you still
believe

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Aug 13, 10:39*pm, BAR wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:24 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. *They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. *And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. *How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd say hi!

In fact Barney Frank just tried to get the banks to "readjust" interest
rates by mortgage holders and it went absolutely nowhere. Congress needs
to stop meddling in the banking industry.

except, of course, it was phil gramm and his wife, a sr. VP at enron,
who wrote the bill deregulating securities. this allowed CDO's to go
from $920B in 1997 to $62 TRILLION in 2007.

and the GOP knew that when the bill came due, the middle class would
pay for it to ensure the rich didn't lose a dollar.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:23:33 -0400, NotNow wrote:

First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

Geez, you would think the Republicans would get on the same page. The
"Death Panel" was an amendment put in by a pro-life Republican, from your
state by the way. And, it makes sense.

http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/...ct-a-pro-life-
republican-from-georgia.html

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:55:33 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:23:33 -0400, NotNow wrote:

First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

Geez, you would think the Republicans would get on the same page. The
"Death Panel" was an amendment put in by a pro-life Republican, from your
state by the way. And, it makes sense.

http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/...ct-a-pro-life-
republican-from-georgia.html

From your source:

"...A spokesperson for Palin told ABC News that the former governor
was referring to a section promoting advance care planning that
appears on page 425 of the House Democrats' bill [pdf]. Advance care
planning includes living wills and durable powers of attorney that
allow individuals to make clear their wishes for end-of-life care,
whatever they may be.

And as it turns out, the cause of advance planning has been championed
especially strongly by a pro-life Republican -- U.S. Sen. Johnny
Isakson of Georgia."

No where does it say Isakson authored the paragraphs in the bill. You
guys will pull anything out of your hats. Go read the bill, starting
on page 429.

--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

Moron.

I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.


I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.

I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 10:39 pm, BAR wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:24 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message
now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...
the market that brought you
-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america
all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.
i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.
BofA is a Federal caused problem. They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.
ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!
and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd say hi!

In fact Barney Frank just tried to get the banks to "readjust" interest
rates by mortgage holders and it went absolutely nowhere. Congress needs
to stop meddling in the banking industry.

except, of course, it was phil gramm and his wife, a sr. VP at enron,
who wrote the bill deregulating securities. this allowed CDO's to go
from $920B in 1997 to $62 TRILLION in 2007.

and the GOP knew that when the bill came due, the middle class would
pay for it to ensure the rich didn't lose a dollar.

No crap loans from Barney Frank and Chris Dodd no CDOs.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

thunder wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:23:33 -0400, NotNow wrote:

First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

Geez, you would think the Republicans would get on the same page. The
"Death Panel" was an amendment put in by a pro-life Republican, from your
state by the way. And, it makes sense.

http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/...ct-a-pro-life-
republican-from-georgia.html

It doesn't matter where it came from it is making a lot of hay for the
anti-Obamacare side of the issue. The biggest problem is that a Dr can
initiate the conversation and get paid for it without the patient
knowing what is going on. I thought Obama was against Dr's padding their
pay?

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

Moron.

I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.


I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.

I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.



Obviously, *you* don't understand, since you couldn't figure out the
uncomplicated sentence I offered you.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

Moron.

I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.


I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.

I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.



Obviously, *you* don't understand, since you couldn't figure out the
uncomplicated sentence I offered you.

Simply put, WAFA. Comprende?

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:46:16 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

Moron.

I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.


I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.

I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.



Obviously, *you* don't understand, since you couldn't figure out the
uncomplicated sentence I offered you.

Simply put, WAFA. Comprende?

Buenos dias, Numero Uno.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:46:16 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.
Moron.
I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.

I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.
I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.


Obviously, *you* don't understand, since you couldn't figure out the
uncomplicated sentence I offered you.
Simply put, WAFA. Comprende?

Buenos dias, Numero Uno.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

Greetings from south of your border, John.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:53:54 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:46:16 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.
Moron.
I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.

I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.
I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.


Obviously, *you* don't understand, since you couldn't figure out the
uncomplicated sentence I offered you.
Simply put, WAFA. Comprende?

Buenos dias, Numero Uno.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

Greetings from south of your border, John.

I want to visit that store one day. But, I'm always doing about 77mph
when I go by the exit and don't want to waste the time.

Is it a worthwhile stop?
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:53:54 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:46:16 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.
Moron.
I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.
I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.
I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.

Obviously, *you* don't understand, since you couldn't figure out the
uncomplicated sentence I offered you.
Simply put, WAFA. Comprende?
Buenos dias, Numero Uno.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.
Greetings from south of your border, John.

I want to visit that store one day. But, I'm always doing about 77mph
when I go by the exit and don't want to waste the time.

Is it a worthwhile stop?
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

I was talking a little further south. Does LXV mean a happy birthday is
in order?

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

In article ,
says...

wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 10:39 pm, BAR wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:24 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message
now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...
the market that brought you
-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america
all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.
i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.
BofA is a Federal caused problem. They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.
ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!
and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd say hi!

In fact Barney Frank just tried to get the banks to "readjust" interest
rates by mortgage holders and it went absolutely nowhere. Congress needs
to stop meddling in the banking industry.

except, of course, it was phil gramm and his wife, a sr. VP at enron,
who wrote the bill deregulating securities. this allowed CDO's to go
from $920B in 1997 to $62 TRILLION in 2007.

and the GOP knew that when the bill came due, the middle class would
pay for it to ensure the rich didn't lose a dollar.

No crap loans from Barney Frank and Chris Dodd no CDOs.

Yeah, now Chris Dodd has been let off the hook by his peers.. Says he
didn't know he got a special deal, yeah right! The guy is a sneaky piece
of ****...

--
Wafa free since 2009

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

JustWait wrote:

Yeah, now Chris Dodd has been let off the hook by his peers.. Says he
didn't know he got a special deal, yeah right! The guy is a sneaky piece
of ****...



Nothing sneaky about you, you piece of ****.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Yeah, now Chris Dodd has been let off the hook by his peers.. Says he
didn't know he got a special deal, yeah right! The guy is a sneaky
piece of ****...



Nothing sneaky about you, you piece of ****.

Do you kiss your landlord with that mouth?

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:00:28 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:53:54 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:46:16 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.
Moron.
I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.
I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.
I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.

Obviously, *you* don't understand, since you couldn't figure out the
uncomplicated sentence I offered you.
Simply put, WAFA. Comprende?
Buenos dias, Numero Uno.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.
Greetings from south of your border, John.

I want to visit that store one day. But, I'm always doing about 77mph
when I go by the exit and don't want to waste the time.

Is it a worthwhile stop?
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

I was talking a little further south. Does LXV mean a happy birthday is
in order?

Past April 15th. Famous day.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:16:52 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:53:54 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

JLH LXV wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:46:16 -0400, Jim numero uno "j i
wrote:

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the
"do nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.
Moron.
I notice you didn't dispute the facts. You moved straight into name
calling. Your usual MO.
I don't "debate" morons, and don't consider their facts "facts." Sorry.
I understand. You are afraid to debate. You are afraid of facts.

Obviously, *you* don't understand, since you couldn't figure out the
uncomplicated sentence I offered you.
Simply put, WAFA. Comprende?
Buenos dias, Numero Uno.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.
Greetings from south of your border, John.

I want to visit that store one day. But, I'm always doing about 77mph
when I go by the exit and don't want to waste the time.

Is it a worthwhile stop?
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

Talking about south of the border, SC? It is worth the stop only for the
fact that it's the tackiest thing you ever saw!!! So, yes, stop
sometime! Pedro is the mascot, and EVERYTHING is Pedro this, Pedro that!

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2211

Reckon I'll just keep doing my 77mph and wave as I go by.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

The Right Wing Lies About Obama's Health Plan
 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:08:07 -0400, NotNow wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:23:33 -0400, NotNow wrote:

First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

Geez, you would think the Republicans would get on the same page. The
"Death Panel" was an amendment put in by a pro-life Republican, from your
state by the way. And, it makes sense.

http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/...ct-a-pro-life-
republican-from-georgia.html

Actually, there are more and more Republicans every day who are getting
fed up with the lies coming from the right concerning Obama's healthcare
plan.

It would be nice if Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc. would stop telling all
the damn lies. Then all the Republicans (and lots of Democrats)
wouldn't be getting so fed up.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.